One last update on the Gomez story (for now)

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jun 30, 2009 10:02 PM EDT in Rangers Analysis Comment 33 comments

Earlier today (although now it seems like 4 days ago) I posted a quote from John Tortorella about "soft players". As I said earlier tonight on SBNation Hockey Live (you can click the link and hear the whole show and my comments), and told Rob, I have to think now that Torts was referring to Scott Gomez, and maybe others as well. Steve Zipay may be confirming this for me here:

"Don't be so sure that the burdensome contract---with a limited no-trade clause--- was the sole reason Gomer was shipped out to Montreal. He and coach John Tortorella---who made it clear Monday that the some partying Rangers need a lifestyle transplant----had several one-on-one huddles in practices and in the final weeks of his worst season points-wise, his presence in the post-game locker room was scarce."

When a coach makes a comment like that, and then 24 hours later a premier player on the team is traded, I think it's pretty easy to figure out.

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Apperently Edmonton's the front runners for Heatley as of 10:44PM

Hopefully he says no to the trade through his no trade clause.

Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!

by The American Mr.Hockey on Jun 30, 2009 10:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Worst season point wise?

Actually that would be 2001-2002 when he was 10-38-48.

This whole line of criticism is so overblown. If you forget the outlier of his 05-06 season, this year is essentially the player Gomez is. He had the same number of goals this past year as he did in 07-08 and only two fewer points than the 06-07 season that earned him the huge contract.

This wasn’t that much of a down year for Gomez. He just looked worse without Jagr and Shanahan providing extra scoring.

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2009 10:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I dont think it has to do with his scoring

I think it has to do with his character of play. I think it has to do with:

- No presence in the locker room (he wears an A and to me that means your ass better be on the burner when your team needs motivation)
- He didnt go all out in a tortorella system, thus pissed off the coaching staff.
- His contract
- He wasnt worth 7 mil
- His contract
- Did I say his contract yet?

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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 1, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

But everyone seems to think his production was way down. It wasn’t. This is who Gomez is. He is middle of the pack player who was given a ridiculous contract and then expected to produce at a level he has never, and isn’t capable of producing at.

It’s not his fault Sather overpaid him. He shouldn’t be criticized for not becoming a 100 point player, just because he was being paid like a 100 point player.

by Reg Dunlop on Jul 1, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah i agree too

people say the same thing about Drury because hes being paid like a 100 point player but drury is a 55-65 point guy.

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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you, to a point. I think a lot of knowledgable people expected Gomez’s numbers to go “up” coming to NY. He has some serious offensive potential, and I think a lot of people were surprised that his numbers weren’t better than they were. He might not be a 100-point player, but these days those guys are rare. Lets face it – people are getting paid 7 M to be 80 point players. If he was that, his contract would be consistent with the market. Im sure thats what Gainey is betting on.

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by poploser on Jul 1, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This speaks to a larger problem

That is that the media and fans in this market are not as savvy or informed as they think they are. We see big names and jump to conclusions about what they can do with out looking at the supporting statistical evidence.

Take the Redden signing. He got a big contact because he was big name. The MSM gobbled it up. But anyone who did research could have seen his production has declined since 05-06 and that further decline was predictable. This was never part of the story because the media scrutiny in this market is lazy.

Now people are clamoring for Heatly. He’s a great player. But the Rangers now have to fill the holes left by Naslund, Antropov, and Gomez (plus whoever they would trade). Heatly can make up for their production, but it still leaves them with holes to fill and not a lot of money to fill them with. For the same money the Rangers could get two Sedins. Or for less money and fewer years they could probably get Koivu, Tanguay, and Knuble. These aren’t sexy names, but do a better job of filling the holes at less money and less commitment.

But everyone wants the big name. Even if it isn’t the best organizational strategy.

by Reg Dunlop on Jul 1, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Higgins can easily make up for the lost goal production of Antropov. Heatley would fill in the Naslund/Antropov gap. The question is: who becomes the #1 playmaking center? There really aren’t that many on the market right now.

by Lunkwill Fook on Jul 1, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RDS reports that Heatly rejects the deal

Ill look into this.

Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!

by The American Mr.Hockey on Jul 1, 2009 12:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

At this point, I honestly just feel bad for poor Murray. I mean that would just suck

by scunge on Jul 1, 2009 12:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Heatley Update

So, the deal was rejected. Apparently according to bob mckenzie:
“A lot of confusion has existed because there is a $4 million bonus payment due to Heatley on July 1. It was the understanding of many involved, including the Senators and Oilers, that once the clock struck midnight and turned over to July 1, the Sens would be on the hook for the $4 million bonus payment, which may have been a serious impediment to getting a deal done after midnight.

But as it turns out, the NHL says as long as a Heatley trade is concluded before midnight eastern tomorrow night, the bonus payment allocation can be transferred to the new team."

This means there is another 24 hrs in the heatley trade scenario…i think the price went down for the rangers at least in what they offer. zherdev, rozy, sangs and a 1st is fine by me as we get the best player in the deal and actually a net cap savings. Sangs is more expendable now with McDonagh in the org. keep Dubi, Cally, Staal, AA, Grachev, MDZ and give them that offer. they need to move him more than we need to get him.

by mleetch352 on Jul 1, 2009 12:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Now a deal to NY looks more imminent

I dont know what to make of all this.
I’ll tell you that Heatley’s allready bad reputation is taking a turn for the worse.

I guess the conversation went like this:

Heatley: “Ottawa sucks, the coach doesnt let me play.”

Murray: “Edmonton”

Heatley: “See you on monday.”

Lopez wants it away, and it's hit deep to left center, Andruw Jones on the run, this one has a chance... home run!!, Mike Piazza!, and the Mets lead 3 to 2!!
-Howie Rose
Gary Thorne=Simply the Best!

by The American Mr.Hockey on Jul 1, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or with Gomez gone the Rangers might be in the curious position of being able to adsorb salary. Heatley and Rutu for Roszival or Zherdev and 1st Rounder! (OK perhaps that is a bit optimistic but you get to point.) They get to dump money on us and maybe a bad 1 or 2 year contract and we get Heatley.

by scunge on Jul 1, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dont give sather ideas

when you say absorb the salary that might mean not forcing them to take Rozi.

Rozi, Zherdev, Sangs and a 1st for Heatley. I dont know why you consider that a salary dump because it isnt as Rozi and Zherdev make more and even if Ruutu was in it would only be a wash as Rozi is 5 and Zherdev is qualified at 3.25.

Beside Ruutu could never work and he and avery would kill each other in practice.

by mleetch352 on Jul 1, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would pay to listen to those practices with Avery and Ruutu

…….

I’m glad to hear that the $4 mill still has 24 hours (hopefully that’correct too) because that’s the main leverage any team, most of all the Rangers, have in getting Heatley.

I think that $4 Mill is the only thing stopping other teams from getting involved.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 1, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just read the article in the Montreal Gazette, they refer to Gomez as a “1st Line Center”

Yeah good luck with that

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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jul 1, 2009 8:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

he'll at least play on the 1st line

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 1, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He isn’t a 1st line center, he just gets paid like one

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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jul 1, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's more of a 1st line center than anybody else the Rangers have right now

by JoshNY on Jul 1, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thats not saying much

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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brad Richards to NYR?

I would trade for Brad if we could do it for Rozi, Zherdev and maybe a pick. Brad is a similar player who Torts likes in his system and essentially makes what Gomer did, but only 2 years left on his deal as opposed to people who want Vinny that has 10 years left and will cost major prospects. Dealing Rozi and Zherdev makes the cap a net wash if not a 1/2 million dollar savings for us. Essentially if it was Rozi and Zherdev for Richards we trade Gomer, Rozi and Zherdev to get Higgins, Brad Richards and McDonagh oh yea and save 6 million in cap space while getting out of 1 contract a year earlier and the other 3 years early.

Bring in a Gabby for a year at 6-7 mil and move Dru to the left wing. I wouldnt even mind Knuble at that point to be 3rd line wing and pain in the ass in the crease on the pp if he will come for 2-2.5 mil for 1 year while letting grachev develop another year. Cally and Dubi 4/10, Higgins 2.1

Dru-Richards-Gabby 21mil
Higgins-Dubi-Cally 7.1 mil
Avery-Artem-Knuble 5.1 mil
Korpo-Boyle-Byers 2.25 mil

Staal-Giradi 2.45mil
Redden-Gilroy 8.25 mil
Sauer-Potter 1.4 mil

Goalies 7.6 mil’

55.15 total with 15 mil that comes off after this year (redden 6.5, knuble 2.5, gabby 6) to sign staal, girardi bring in kovy for gabby, grachev for knuble and mdz for redden. and after that richards is off the following year and then drury the year after that so each year for the next 3 we funnel out big bad deals as our prospects mature

by mleetch352 on Jul 1, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No to Richards

Richards is quality but another hefty contract for a guy who only scores 20 goals a year. I dont want them to be handcuffed with another Gomez (although better) lol.

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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 1, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hefty, but only for two years.

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by Dave (BSB) on Jul 1, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt the Flyers would get rid of Richards

He’s the quintessential captain & I don’t think they’d let him go.

by BriGuy27 on Jul 1, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brad, from Dallas, not Mike.

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by Dave (BSB) on Jul 1, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dont i wish

they would give up mike, but yes brad from dallas…the one that played for Torts in Tampa

by mleetch352 on Jul 1, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh my bad

I didn’t realize it was Brad Richards not Mike Richards.

by BriGuy27 on Jul 2, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Richards

is only 2 years. giving up rozi and zherdev makes it a cap wash and end up still having the saved gomer money

by mleetch352 on Jul 1, 2009 10:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

oh really i thought he was more than that

Well even so why give up prospects when Cammillari, Havlat, Gaborik and others are available.

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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 1, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ur missing my point

the point is if this team is going to compete next year it needs 2 scorers. dealing Z and Rozi will allow us cap wise to get Richards for free and then you can still spend the money on Gaborik for a year. i dont want Cammy, Havlat or Hossa long term. Gabby for a year allows us to still have money next year to go after Kovy.

by mleetch352 on Jul 1, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say

go for Cammillari …

by Poe678 on Jul 1, 2009 10:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

there’s been very little chatter about him in the press, which I find interesting. Is that because he’s not a big name, or because he’s not highly rated (the “Iginla Effect”?)

If he can be brought in for the 4-5 M range, he might be a solid pickup. But is he a No. 1?

Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.

http://glensathersucks.com/
http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo

by poploser on Jul 1, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

anyone notice?

nhl.com polls where the majority of the ppl believe the habs got the better end of the deal haha

by John Mjr on Jul 1, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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