Rangers Analysis: Larry Brooks tells Dubinsky to "wait his turn"
This has been circulating the internet but I think it deserves a space here. This morning the New York Post aired a story written by Larry Brooks about the Brandon Dubinsky holdout. And to be quite frank the story is brilliant. Here are some highlights:
By the winter of 1998, Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera had established themselves as integral parts of what was then the Yankees' embryonic dynasty. Jeter had won Rookie of the Year and Rivera had mastered, if not invented, the role of bullpen set-up man for the 1996 world champions. They each followed with superb seasons in 1997, Rivera as the closer, for the club that lost the ALDS to Cleveland.
Surely each merited significant raises off the $550,000 for which they had both played in 1997. The problem was that second-year players had no leverage whatsoever under the terms of Major League Baseball's collective bargain agreement. As such, the Yankees renewed each contract for $750,000 apiece for 1998.
That meant that in 1998, while starring for the team that went 125-50 in winning the World Series, Jeter earned less money than utility man Luis Sojo, who played for $800,000, and Rivera earned less money than matchup reliever Graeme Lloyd, who was in at $875,000.
Said Jeter in spring training upon his contract being renewed: "I can't negotiate."
Said Rivera: "I've got to wait for my turn."
Read more of the article and get my analysis after the jump.
Here is more from the article:
Players and management each own tools under the CBA. They are there to be utilized; no apologies necessary.
A Group II free agent coming off Entry Level without arbitration rights such as Dubinsky, has no leverage absent an offer sheet. Dubinsky, who recorded 41 points last season and 40 points as a rookie, was not able to attract an offer sheet. If he had, he would have owned the hammer. One can be quite sure Dubinsky would not have apologized if a competing club's offer sheet had backed GM Glen Sather into a cap corner.
Sather thus owes Dubinsky no apology for using the CBA to his advantage. The Rangers have offered Dubinsky $700,000 on a one-year deal when, indeed, Sather could have stood on a qualifier of $522,500.
The Rangers now could reduce their offer to Dubinsky, who is seeking $1.4M, to the league minimum of $500,000 if they so choose.
Could Sather come up to, say, $850,000?
Sure he could and he probably should if that would get the deal done immediately. Let's not pretend that the Rangers wouldn't be better off with Dubinsky in camp. But there is no indication that Dubinsky, who is seeking approximately $1.4M this year, would accept that offer. And the Rangers have no reason to negotiate against themselves.
Fact is, under terms of the CBA, the Rangers are under no obligation at all at this stage of the process to offer Dubinsky a one-year deal of any kind that would serve as a bridge to salary arbitration next summer, when the center could be in line to get $3-3.5M off a good season.
Sather could pull his one-year offer at any moment and present Dubinsky with a two-year, take-it-or-leave it contract worth, say, $1.1M total. That, of course, though would set off a chain of events that would lead to Dubinsky's departure from Broadway. But if this current stalemate persists, it is likely to lead to Dubinsky leaving the Rangers in a trade, probably sooner rather than later.
The Blueshirts don't have a first-line center. They want to give Dubinsky, who did not have a particularly impressive sophomore season last year, the first chance to grab that spot and make it his own. Dubinsky is going to have to decide, and pretty soon, whether he's going to accept it.
Derek Jeter waited his turn. So did Mariano Rivera. They had no choice. Neither does Brandon Dubinsky if he wants to be a Ranger.
Look this is what we talked about on the radio show with Jim Cerny last night and these have been my thoughts from the get-go. If Brandon Dubinsky was on the other side of the table he would have no problem pinching Glen Sather into giving him his money--deserved or not. Larry Brooks could not have said it any better when he said:
Dubinsky, who recorded 41 points last season and 40 points as a rookie, was not able to attract an offer sheet. If he had, he would have owned the hammer. One can be quite sure Dubinsky would not have apologized if a competing club's offer sheet had backed GM Glen Sather into a cap corner.
I know many of you are upset with with Glen Sather over this situation, and you really shouldnt be. Let me be perfectly clear here: Brandon Dubinsky will not get the 1.4 million dollars he wants this year, at least not from the Rangers. Glen Sather has yet to budge and I don't think he will or should.
While it does hurt the Rangers that Brandon Dubinsky is not at camp it hurts Dubinsky much more. John Tortorella is pissed that Dubinsky is not at camp. Dubinsky is missing critical conditioning and aerobic drills. Dubinsky is also missing--we will assume a deal will not be made for the next couple of days--valuable pre-season games. He is not getting "reps" as a first line center since he is not attending camp--which is funny because he is using the fact that they expect him to be a first line center as a negotiation point.
At the end of the day the Rangers have replacements for Brandon Dubinsky. Vinny Prospal can easily play as the Rangers first line center, which would throw Drury as the 2nd line center and Ansisimovas the third line center. You all might get mad at me for saying this but I think that Dubinsky is being "childish" about this.
When the Rangers offering him a one year 700K deal Dubinsky should have accepted it. So what? He doesn't make the money he thinks he deserves for one year. Suck it up and play as a first line center with Gaborik. His numbers will improve even if his play doesnt. And then he can take Sather to arbitration and make his money there, if he earns it. But as for right now he deserves what he is being offered a one year 700K deal.
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I agree with most....
…of what’s being said both by Brooks (is the sky falling yet??) and yourself.
The parallels to Jeter/Rivera are excellent ones.
I will take exception to your closing comment “But as for right now he deserves what he is being offered a one year 700K deal.”
That’s simply not accurate. Compare his stats for the last 2 years with Callahan’s – are you suggesting Cally is ‘overpaid in the great Sather tradition’ ?
Compare his stats for his 1st 2 years to Phil Kessel’s 1st 2 years – I’ve said it time and again – Dubi’s are actually better.
That’s not to suggest that he’s worth what Kessel was making – nor what Kessel (absurd as it is) is asking in a new deal.
But to say that he’s not worth more than 700k is exaggeration to the extreme. In a true free market system he’d be worth about the same as Cally – maybe a little more because you could say he’s a center on a ‘center-starved’ roster.
In the context of the CBA and his RFA status – he needs to get into camp ASAP. If that means sucking it up for a year, it is my opinion he should do exactly that. Otherwise, he gets tagged as a “malcontent – me first” – which those who know him realize is ridiculously far from the truth.
For better or worse – the ball is clearly in Dubi/His agent’s court. Sather’s next move is probably a trade – and I think most people would hate to see that.
im saying this dbmaven
and it is a great question. The reason why Callahan deserves the money he got is because:
1) he was able to go to arbitration (which is a guarenteed raise)
2) Callahan’s on ice play was much better than Dubinsky’s.
3) Plain and simple Callahan had 11 more goals. Thats a big deal in the NHL and the Rangers valued him that way.
I think that Callahan deserves every penny. I think that Dubinsky needs to take his “lumps” by only making 700K this year and move on. next year he will make his money.
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by Joe Fortunato on Sep 15, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
dbmaven, as I said last night, I think the Rangers know what they have an what they are going to get with Callahan, whereas Dubinsky is still a bit of an unknown commodity
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Sep 15, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions
I agree on the context (meaning your point #1).
- is debatable – but I won’t argue it here.
- you can’t have goals (except in unusual circumstances) without assists. You expect your center(s) to have more assists than goals – depending of course on their linemates.
And based on where things are at – I agree with him biting the bullet now.
But as I said, in a true free-market system without the cap, he’s worth more, and I think you’d agree with that.
It happened, but now it will exist only in infamy
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Sep 15, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
Brooks hit the nail on the head with this article. Dubinsky hurts himself more & more each day he’s not at camp, Tortorella will look in another direction for No.1 C. One really has to wonder where Dubinsky and Kessel are getting their advice from, getting labeled like this while they’re still young is going to be tough to shake.
don’t forget Zherdev, one has to assume his agent was the one steering him in the wrong direction.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Sep 15, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Good stuff
This is all good stuff. The more I read the more Im leaning on Dubinsky to suck it up, prove something and get into camp. While he might be worth more than 700,000, he’s doesnt have any leverage to command more and that is either the way the system works or the way his agent guided him. Either way def not Glen or the Rangers fault here. Dubinsky still has alot to prove and his drought last season was horrendous, so he should listen to the good advice and dump his agent and start working himself towards a big payday next season.
i agree in a way
he cant get his 1.4 million but at least give him 1 million, or 900,000 because it would be a deserved raise and im not surprised Dubz is asking to make this year what Brashear is making come on. I like the comparison but the Yankees are in no way comparable to the Rangers, the Redwings don’t even compare because of intangibles, just because we are on Broadway doesn’t mean we have the lore of 26 championships, Mariano and Jeter aren’t stupid they know they would be a big part of the biggest franchise history getting all the money they want because baseball has NO SALARY CAP and endorsements. Of coarse they would wait their turn. Also, Cashman is a lot clearer than Sather and i wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t let Brandon know “hey next year we are going to sign you for good money if you just play to what your capable of.” I just hope Duby will play for the 700,000 because he doesn’t have any leverage but i don’t fault him for wanting what he wants. (i think Sather should have Messier talk to Duby and his agent and try to get them on board using the same numbers but who knows it could work?
Dubinsky has no leaverage though
the Rangers dont have to negotiate against themselvs. If the Rangers say well give you 500K and Dubinsky says no 1.4 million and then the Rangers say fine 700K and Dubinsky says no 1.4 million then there is no negotiating with him. Who is to say he accepts a 900K deal. And why should Sather have to buckle?
Im sorry but Dubinsky 100% knows that he will make good money next year. He is just negotiation with no leaverage. It’s not like he cant live on 700K lets be real here.
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by Joe Fortunato on Sep 15, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Dubinsky has no leverage.
Brashear has paid his dues in the league. It makes no difference who is better. When Dubinsky has been in the league as long as Brashear he will be getting his. I don’t know why you are bringing up championships or intangibles, you completely missed the point of the Yankee comparison by so much it is almost funny, especially seeing you launch into a rant about GM’s and salary caps and whatever else that has literally nothing whatsoever to do with what anybody is talking about. When you come into the MLB, like the NHL, you go through a process of acquiring service time before becoming arb eligible and eventually a FA. When you first come into the league, you make less money. It is the way it is. Jeter and Mo made less money then Lloyd and Sojo, regardless of the talent level. The latter two had paid their dues, accumulated their service time and become free agents. Jeter and Mo, and in our case, Dubi, hadn’t done that yet. Brasheare has. It is the way the system works.
"It's like the old phrase goes.....The balls in your court now Mr.Church, so you take that ball, you dribble it up the court and....................................... get a layup"
- Keith Hernandez
RFAs
So why is it that no other team will extend an offer sheet to Dubinsky? Are all the owners playing nice and not pouching other teams RFAs for fear of retribution? You can’t tell me that a team like Columbus, Nashville or Atlanta wouldn’t like a 40 point center with upside for $1.0m and $1.5m at the cost of a draft pick.
it's not just a draft pick its their
1st 2nd and probably 3rd picks. I wouldnt be willing to give that much up for dubinsky
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by Joe Fortunato on Sep 15, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Number could be off...
but even at $1.5 as long as the offering team has their original 3rd round pick that’s all they would lose for signing Dubinsky,
$994,433 or below – No Compensation
$994,434 – $1,506,717 – 2010 3rd round pick
yeah but think baout it
if a team really wants Dubinsky they need to make a dal they know the Rangers wont match. So you would have to assume the deal would be worth 2.5 mil.
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by Joe Fortunato on Sep 15, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about.
They could put in a 1.5 offer just to test the Rangers true intentions. There are plenty of teams that would put in an offer like that just for the hell of it. Can’t hurt them. Either the Rangers match it, or they don’t. It would be foolish to offer him 2.5 million. You offer him 1.0 to 1.5, put the pressure on the Rangers and then if they sign him and you still want him that bad you try to work out a trade. Otherwise, you see if you can steal him away for 1.5 and a 3rd. If not, you aren’t any worse off then you started.
So no, they can don’t have to make a deal they know the Rangers won’t match at all. All they have to do is make an offer that they are comfortable with paying for Dubinsky and see if the Rangers match it or not. Just because they want him doesn’t mean they want him for 2.5, and you don’t have to put in an offer that you know for a fact won’t be matched, you just test the waters. The fact that Dubinsky got no offer sheets speaks volumes.
"It's like the old phrase goes.....The balls in your court now Mr.Church, so you take that ball, you dribble it up the court and....................................... get a layup"
- Keith Hernandez
then risk losing him?
If a team seriously wants Dubinsky they would need to put more than 1.5 on the table
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by Joe Fortunato on Sep 16, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree.....
that Duby needs to earn his pay and put up numbers that you count on year after year….. but Glen Sather is to blame for this when he put himself behind the 8 ball by givng 1 million dollar contracts to Rissmiller and Voros. I totally understand Dubinskys thinking!!! Who is worth more now Glen?…… Voros,Rissmiller or Duby? This is why Glen must go… Rissmiller and Voros are 500k contract players at best !!!!! Kotalik 3mil per…Really ???? Cmon
Just a Second Here Please
Joe
Ever consider that it is the Rangers who are spoon feeding Brooks their information?
Ask yourself a few questions:
Name the last time a homegrown Yankee had to hold out to get a fair contract? Jeter/Rivera never had to worry that the Yanks would not take good care of them because the Yanks never screw their own players.
Using examples from over 10 years ago is bogus because of what the current value of the dollar is VS inflation. Ask what a 2nd year player in the MLB is getting TODAY and see if the dollar figure is equal. Want to bet that 2nd yr players get a lot more than 500K now?
And since when is any Ranger fan supposed to trust anything the Rangers say?
Ask why all of a sudden Larry Brooks has a hard on for Dubinsky after years of taking the player’s side in matters like this? Would it be that Dubinsky and his agent are not leaking info to Brooks like others have?
Ask Brooks how many times has Glen Sather lowballed his own young players going back to his days as Oiler GM? Go back and look at the records as Sather has traditionally played bully with his young players with his “My Way or Highway”
Ask Brooks where he is getting his Dubinsky’s contract demands info from because Dubi, his agent and his family have remained silent on what he wants.
BUT on the other hand, the team that has always under Sather had the policy of not disclosing contract terms and conditions has no problem leaking to Brooks what they are supposedly offering Dubi?
Yet Brooks and many a Ranger fan are trying to think Dubinsky is the bad guy here when he is asking for a fair not a greedy deal.
People are forgetting that if Dubi takes a lowball number that is also the starting point for any future arbitration. They look at what he made during the previous season as part of determining his future salary.
Another thing that is being left out is that the Rangers are not offering Dubi a One Way contract they are offering him a Two Way contract. Why because Dubi is 10 games short of the requirement, the Rangers are repeatedly going out of their way to demean and embarrass the one player who actually bleeds Ranger blue.
BTW go check and see what the NHL Minimum Salary is for this season. Sather’s original offer was 522K. NHL minimum wage is 500K.
Brooks and the Rangers are also leaving out that Dubi’s salary would also be subject to the Escrow Tax which means Dubi right off the bat loses 10% of his salary that he may or may not get back depending on NHL revenues.
Here is the truth that nobody wants to say out loud, Dubinsky is being set up to be traded by Sather. Had Sather tried moving Dubi a month or 2 ago the fans would be freaking out.
But force the kid into this situation where he is labeled a holdout (when he is being locked out), try to get him to blast the team via the media (offering a 2 way contract, refuse to let him use his own equipment to stay in shape) and make him look like a greedy SOB and Sather turns the PR battle against the kid.
So in a week or so, Sather cries “We can not reach a deal so I did what was best for all parties and traded him” then people who are buying into the Ranger Kool-Aid do not string Sather up alive.
So while people are piling on Dubinsky realize who is trashing him and which team is screwing him. Then why not ask these questions I just asked you to both Brooks and the Rangers.
by theprospectpark on Sep 15, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
Superbly presented....
Thanks for your thoughts. It did occur to me while reading the Brooks article that it sounded Sather inspired. I’m sure one of his minions gave Brooks the wink and nudge. Also recall that in 24 hrs Torts went from “its business … no grudges” to “the kid’s stupid …etc” Dontcha think somebody (Sather) got to him? Both sides are being obstinate and the Rangers hold all the cards. But it does seem there is a campaign going on here….but it’s all business – no grudges.
jess
when has larry brooks ever been one to “side with sather” i know you are a fan of Dubinsky but let’s be realistic here some of this blame lies on him.
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by Joe Fortunato on Sep 15, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
but...
part of your theory relies on the assumption that Sather doesn’t want Dubinsky here… which I don’t believe.
I agree, that they have brought forth this PR campaign against him, but that’s part of the business. They are either trying to trade him, or trying to make him give in. What do you expect them to do?
It’s very clear that this is the ONLY time in a player’s career that the team has ALL of the leverage, and Sather is not going to give that up… he wants to use it to his fullest. Players never have any qualms about using their leverage to get more money (I’m sure our ugly contract players, ie. Redden, did that quite a bit)… So Sather knows that somewhere down the line Dubi will get a big raise, and at that time Dubi and his agent will use ALL of the leverage they have to get a maximum contract. Sather is simply doing the same thing to get a minimum – to save money.
That’s why so many free agents are overpaid each year, because GM’s don’t have much of a choice if they really want the player. The Rangers won a bidding war for Redden… just like the Blackhawks won a bidding war for Cambell… now we pay the price – because the player/agent had the leverage.
Its an ugly business, but this stuff is standard.
Haha.
You guys talk about the way Dubinsky has been treated like it is blasphemy, yet then Larry Brooks writes a story about how he should stop being a bitch and wait his turn, because he hasn’t done shit in the NHL and nobody even gave him an offer sheet (which I have been saying for weeks and getting killed lol) and now suddenly you all agree? Funny group.
"It's like the old phrase goes.....The balls in your court now Mr.Church, so you take that ball, you dribble it up the court and....................................... get a layup"
- Keith Hernandez
Tired of this
I am just getting tired of the entire situation. I don’t think that Dubi is the second Messiah… He is good but if he was really a number one center he would have an offer sheet in front of him… I wish the Rangers held on to Savard and we would not have this problem. I do like Dubi and do not want to see him go expecially for nothing… If he is not gonna play for the Rangers than get something for him…
"and this one will last a lifetime...." It may have too...
Suppose theprospectpark is correct and Sather plans to trade Dubi… Does this angle make much sense? Doesn’t turning Dubi into a contract hold-out, that only scores 13 goals a year make him less valuable? Wouldn’t it make more sense to meet half-way, say 1 year for $1mil., showcase him with Gaborik and then send him on his way for “top-return”???
Any other GM that thinks the Dubi/NYR relationship is irreconcilable is certain to offer less in return.

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