Rangers News: Vinny Prospal Back vs. NJ
by Michael Gleich on Jan 11, 2010 9:58 PM EST
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PrintIn his notes from practice this morning Andrew Gross said that Vinny Prospal is expected to be back for the Rangers tomorrow vs NJ. He went on to detail the line combinations from practice this more with the caveat not to read much into them because Torts said he hadnt settled on them, but reading into it is what we do here. Also, Torts not settling on a line combination, consider me shocked.
Vinny Prospal-Erik Christensen-Marian Gaborik
Brandon Dubinsky-Chris Drury-Ryan Callahan
Sean Avery-Artem Anisimov-Christopher Higgins
Aaron Voros/Donald Brashear-Brian Boyle-Ales Kotalik/Enver Lisin
I really dont understand these combinations much at all. I understand Prospal is back and he has chemistry with Gaborik, but that doesnt mean he has to be immediately slotted with Gaborik on the 1st line as the line of Dubi-EC-Gabby has played very well in his absence and Dubi and EC have really seen an uptick in there play as a combination, so why mess with that? Also Prospal has a greater ability to enhance the other players in the lineup as we are always talking about secondary scoring so let him be a playmaker for other guys like Cally and Drury or AA. Further down the way to see them moving Higgins to the 3rd line RW is another example of how Torts cannot bring himself to just drop Higgins all the way down and is desperate to find him minutes. Also it shows he will use any excuse he can to demote Lisin who based on these combinations looks like along with Voros/Brash he will be scratched tomorrow. As far as I am concerned both Voros and Brash are useless so let Higgins play 4th line left wing and be done with it.
Dubi-EC-Gabby
Prospal-Dru-Cally
Aves-AA-Lisin
Higgins-Boyle-Kots
I wouldnt mind Prospal and Aves swapping using Dru's line for more energy and annoyance while letting Prospal mentor the skill of AA and Lisin. This wont happen because it would force torts to play AA and Lisin more and that is something he is apparently loathed to do.
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Prospal’s been a minus player with Cally so far, so I like the idea of him being with AA and Lisin better (AA, still the 4th best P/60 on the team, with the 4th worst teammates). Not to mention then Prospal can cover up AA on the faceoffs.
Otherwise I’d drop Dubi and Cally together and leave Prospal-EC-Gabby.
I’ll be there tomorrow night. Glad I’ll get a full Rangers squad against Fatso.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
do you know how much of that minus was in few times they tried to move cally to left wing when dubi was out and he was awful there. i think they gave up 2 goals in 1 period that way, but i could be recalling incorrectly. also the sample size would have to be quite small.
by Michael Gleich on Jan 11, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I wish I had access to that kind of precision. Actually, I should be able to isolate the games Dubi was out, which is close enough. Let me work on that.
I posted the total numbers in one of the EC threads, Prospal-Cally was -4 (0GF, 4 GA)…but the team save% is a really crappy .871%, so it’s entirely possible the Cally LW game is part of that as you described. It listed them having played 30 games together (that will include games where they were together mid-line change), and they’ve generated 35 shots and a +19 Corsi.
It is not a big sample no, but i think it’s not small either. Unfortunately, there’s no data out there (that I’ve found or been directed to) that would give me how much time they’ve been out there together.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jan 11, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
wait, does this only count EV? cause i could see the 30 games if it counted the PP, but wouldnt understand the 0GF then.
by Michael Gleich on Jan 11, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, EV only
Since we’re talking about lines, that’s all I was concerned with. I’m pretty sure this tool picks up any time where they’re on the ice together. (for instance Cally changes with Gabby, but Prospal can’t get off the ice, or if they’re out together when a PP expired)
That’s why I’m annoyed I can’t get the actual ice time, it’d be more reflective than just the games played. If I were smart enough, I’d develop my own tool, but I’m reliant on smarter people.
Anyway, when Dubi was out, Prospal-Cally was -2 w/ a -2 Corsi and a .750?! sv%. Yes, the Pittsburgh games, incl. the “Death of Vally” game is in that stretch.
So with Dubi in the lineup, Prospal-Cally was -2 w/ a +21 Corsi. Pretty good considering.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jan 11, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
the only other time i specifically remember attempting to play them together was when gabby missed those two games. where do you have ur tools from because i would love to play around w some stats tools.
by Michael Gleich on Jan 11, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
vhockey.blogspot.com and timeonice.com. Both came as recommendations from Behind the Net (behindthenet.ca and behindthenethockey.com)
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jan 11, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
For instance
This is the link for all games where Cally-Prospal were together
http://timeonice.com/playershots0910.php?team=NYR&first=20001&last=21230&daniel=20&henrik=24
If you want to see other teams, change the NYR to the correct form, the game numbers come from nhl.com.
To try different players, change daniel=20 to whatever uniform number you want. To add a 3rd player, add &kesler= and the uniform number.
Enjoy.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jan 11, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
.871% must have been vally in net. lol.
by Michael Gleich on Jan 11, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
regardless of line combos, Vinny came back quick
by truebluesince75 on Jan 11, 2010 4:41 PM EST reply actions
not particularly, no. they said 10 days to 3 weeks, it will be 15 days, so around the middle.
by Michael Gleich on Jan 11, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
him to renounce his russian heritage. lol.
by Michael Gleich on Jan 11, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think its quite obvious Torts has something against the Russian players.
by CrazyRangerFan on Jan 12, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
I think Torts is very old school and has something against some of the softer players, which tends to be the Europeans/Russians.
I don’t tend to disagree with him.
everyone should make the hit when they can (obviously not stupid hits) and finish their checks. this is hockey. is this not taught at the junior levels?
by truebluesince75 on Jan 12, 2010 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but let's be honest here
Lisin is one of the hardest skaing players on the team and AA has 100% earned more playing time. I mean 8 minutes a game is usless.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
by Joe Fortunato on Jan 12, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
I am not disagreeing and we have all seen it, but Torts has still not increased their ice time commensurate with their hard work and some of the great plays they have made (esp. when AA drives to the net, which he should do more often). so something else lies beneath the surface.
it may be just a factor of their age/experience for all I know.
by truebluesince75 on Jan 12, 2010 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
It probably is an experience/age factor
we all know how Torts loves to run his top guys but he does that to a fault. Although he did develop Lecavalier, St. Louis and Richards …
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
by Joe Fortunato on Jan 12, 2010 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
Ok I will accept that reasoning, as I have no real facts to back up my claims. I do have hearsay and conjecture though.
by truebluesince75 on Jan 12, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
Torts also
seemed content to let Christensen rot while we were struggling to get some offense going. If Prospal never gets hurt it’s quite likely EC wouldn’t have gotten a legit shot.
He had an issue with Parenteau too…between him, Lisin, EC, AA…I think he feels they belong in the role of a top 6 forward, but doesn’t feel they’re better than Prospal-Dubinsky-Gaborik, Avery/Higgins-Drury-Callahan, so he just buries them because he also doesn’t think they’re good enough to handle the defensive responsibilities required of his 3rd and 4th lines.
Reality is AA is a top 6 forward on this team but Drury’s clogging his spot.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jan 12, 2010 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t see Torts abandoning Drury. Sure his offense is pitiful, but he is defensively responsible and sacrifices his body on the PK.
AA may just have to wait until Drury gets injured. just like EC had to wait. sad but true.
by truebluesince75 on Jan 12, 2010 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
Pitiful is overstating….he’s actually been pretty good at even strength, but along the same lines as AA, Drury for some reason can’t get any PP time, which over his career is where a fat part of his production comes from.
I hate how Torts has managed the lines.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jan 12, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
I just look at results and this is a 20-25 goal guy on pace for 10 goals. He has been shooting less and just seems to lack any confidence in his offense anymore.
I can chalk it up to when, where and how-much ice time Drury get, but I still expect more from him.
by truebluesince75 on Jan 12, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Again
If you look at the hard numbers, yes, obviously he’s not where he should be. Look at the ice time:
07-08 – 324 PP minutes, 29 PP points (12 goals)
08-09 – 289 PP minutes, 20 PP points (10 goals)
09-10 – 59 PP minutes – 2 PP points (0 goals)
He’s a player who for 4 straight seasons scored at least 10 PP goals. For his career…39% of his goals have come on the PP.
Since he’s not getting time on that unit, it’s really no surprise that he has had limited goal production.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jan 12, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
i honestly dont understand this.
when your top line is contributing regularly why change it up. prospal is a playmaker than can really pick up the games of other players to create a balanced scoring unit. this just makes no sense to me. and torts again not willing to move higgins to the 4th line where he belongs.
explain this to me. who has a larger chance to score. lisin or higgins.. i think lisin.
whos a better PKer and hustle player, higgins. why not stick him on the 4th line and put lisin on the 3rd… i dont get it.
dubinsky christensen gaborik (playing really well together)
prospal anisimov lisin (let prospal mentor AA and lisin)
avery drury cally (hustle 3rd line)
higgins boyle kotalik (leftovers)
staal roszival
girardi mdz
redden gilroy
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
by Moshe52792 on Jan 11, 2010 8:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
you could have just said u agreed with me Moshe instead of writing it out the same way. lol.
by Michael Gleich on Jan 11, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Why?
Because if he actually does well you can’t mock his contract? Is that a bad thing…?
by xcdudesquad on Jan 11, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
with the lines Torts used today, I could see maybe giving the 1st line a chance as it could be effective – but the 2nd one gives me a bad feeling, even with Dubi on it, who’s been awesome. I would agree with the idea of spreading the wealth, let Prospal work with someone else for a change other than Gaborik, see what happens. And I agree with a lot of you about Anisimov – when will he get more time?? How is he supposed to develop with the minutes he’s getting?
I like prospal back on the first line.. i’d do
Prospal-EC-Gab
Dubi-AA-Lisin
Avery-Dru-Cally
Higgins-Boyle-Kot
I think the 2nd line has enough scoring in it and the 3rd line is a good shutdown line, especially if avery is playing like avery
lol
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
by Joe Fortunato on Jan 12, 2010 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
Aves-AA-Lisin...
that is an off-sides call waiting to happen
I always kind of thought Avery didn’t really understand the offsides rule. he always seems dumbfounded when the refs call it (but all players do when any penalty is called).
by truebluesince75 on Jan 12, 2010 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
Plus like I said last night on the radio (sorry about my voice again)
Who knows how conditioned Prospal will be, who knows how well prepared he will be for the intensity of a hockey game. Just an opinion here but the Devis game is not the time to find out.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
tonight is still a good litmus test as the Rangers have been better of late but have won against mostly lower-tier teams and teams playing some bad hockey (ie, Bruins, Stars)
by truebluesince75 on Jan 12, 2010 9:06 AM EST reply actions
Lines...
I’m sorry fellas, I know we are not an elite squad, but damn it we don’t look so bad on paper. I actually would only change one thing about the original lines in the first post and that would be to substitute AA with Dru.
VP-EC-Gabby
Dubi-AA-Cally
Avery-Drury-Higgins
Kotalik-Boyle-Lisin
I know, I know 4th line needs a bruiser but for christmas sake Boyle is 6’7" 245. Torts should tell him use that size or watch from the bench. With the speed and skill between Kotalik and Lisin if they were reliable on the back end, could make for a well balanced attack and make other teams roll 4 lines as well. I am well aware that torts likes to run two lines but enough already. Spread it out with the olympic “break i f you can call it that” coming up someone is going to have to pick up some slack.
P.S. LUND123 I like your lines too….
well higgins is a lw and id like to see him put on the 4th line in al honesty. lisin would do much better playing on the 3rd with a chance to contribute offensively every now and than.
i think prospal should be played with aa and lisin to set them up and mentor them. that line would contribute offensively if given minutes, and we know dubi-ec-gabs will contribute everygame.
that gives us two good lines that are scoring threats. than avery drury cally can be the shutdown line against the other teams best forwards and the 4th line of higgins boyle and kotalik will get the majority of their playing time on special teams.
play to your strengths
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
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