Speculatin' On Souray
by John Merrigan on Oct 2, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
in New York Rangers Analysis
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Sheldon Souray's career as an Oiler is officially kaput. It comes as no surprise to anyone that Souray had already played his last game as an Oiler. At 34 years old, Souray is still a valuable asset. He's a true weapon from the point on the power play with one of the hardest bombs in the game. He's also physical and plays with a nasty edge. As of right now, there are no takers on Souray with his contract standing at two years and a cap hit of $5.4 million. The fact that not a single team claimed him on waivers signals to Steve Tambellini and the rest of the Oilers management that the only way to rid themselves of Souray would be to put him on re-entry waivers where they would be on the hook for half of his cap hit and salary. If the Oilers don''t want Souray around their youth in Edmonton than likely don't want him with their AHL affiliate in Oklahoma City. He seems destined for re-entry waivers.
If Souray does in fact get placed on re-entry waivers, I'd hope that Sather would put a claim on him. At that point his cap hit would be a very reasonable $2.7 million - that's essentially Todd White's cap hit who really hasn't played well enough to be on the Rangers roster on opening night. Souray's cap hit would also be smaller than current Rangers defensemen Marc Staal, Dan Girardi, and Michal Rozsival. With the recent demotion of Wade Redden, with the recent demotion of Wade Redden (felt so good to write that that I had to write it twice) the Rangers are no longer suffocated against the cap.
Claiming Souray would be a way for the Rangers to improve their team now without sacrificing their future. It would not cost them anything but another check from Jimmy Dolan. Souray is one year removed from potting 23 goals, that's more than everyone on the Rangers from last season with the exception of Marian Gaborik. Souray had an injury riddled season last year which included breaking his hand on Jarome Iginla's face. However, all reports indicate that he's healthy now. Even if he were to lose time to injury over the next two years, at a cap hit of $2.7 million it would not be the end of the world and the Rangers would have enough depth to make due.
With Souray in tow, the Rangers could have a potentially lethal power play featuring him and Michael Del Zotto on the points. He would also add an edge to the Rangers defense that with the exception of Pavel Valentenko is relatively vanilla. Keep in mind, thats even if Valentenko makes the team which at this point is no guarantee.
As far as the Rangers young defensive corps go, they could benefit from Souray being on the roster. As of now the only locks for the club are Staal, Del Zotto, Rozsival, and Girardi. After that the third pairing is up for grabs and neither Valentenko, Michael Sauer, Matt Gilroy, nor Ryan McDonagh have played well enough to have a kung-fu grip on a roster spot. Adding Souray allows for two of the three to grow in Hartford and play 25 plus minutes a night, something they wouldnt be able to do in New York even if Souray weren't on the roster.
A concern may be that why would the Rangers want Souray in the locker room if Edmonton is so hell bent on losing him? It needs to be understood that Edmonton is sort of like the morbidly obese kid in gym class, just as he is always last picked for dodgeball, Edmonton is the last place any marquee free agent wants to go. Chris Pronger wanted out and Dany Heatley left them at the alter. It's no surprise that they have a short fuse when it comes to any player disputes.
Souray is not a bad teammate. Had he been on the ice when Dan Carcillo used Gaborik as a punching bag he would have been the first (and only) to jump in. Souray has a problem with management, not the team. He alleged that the Oilers rushed him to play after his shoulder injury, that's a legitimate reason to be angry. Unfortunately for him though, he aired his dirty laundry out to the media so regardless of whether management did rush him or not Souray is going to be perceived as the one entirely at fault. The Rangers can take this opportunity to improve their defense without sacrificing the future and the best part of it all.. they can
stick the Oilers with half the bill.
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Totally agree
I don’t see any down side of having Souray except for the fact that someone young might not play right now, but I’d rather a young defenseman get top minutes in Hartford. But if I had to choose, I would pick McDonagh to win the last starting spot.
Proudly suffering as a Ranger fan
souray and 'tenko would be nice
either together or split into two pairs, that would give us plenty of ‘jam’ up the middle.
+1 on the following thought as well…
He would also add an edge to the Rangers defense thatis relatively… vanilla
not a good idea, leave the kids on D
How does anyone justify picking up Souray after the Rangers just dumped Wade Redden? Souray is old and injury-prone, and even when he was healthy he was not that good a player. Imagine for one second how hard it is for a player to compile a 28 +/ rating when scoring a career-high 26 goals and 64 points on a decent team….but that’s what Souray managed to do when he was four years younger than he is right now. Additionally, for an 11-year veteran he’s only been to the playoffs in 5 of those seasons. Not a good percentage for a supposedly big-time defenseman.
Souray is one of those guys whose game looks good, but in reality he’s not that good. Let him be some other team’s problem, our D is going to be just fine by the end of the season, unless they’re blocked from getting playing time by over-the-hill dudes like Souray.
Prole art threat.
Souray’s plus-minus in ‘06-’07 was minus 28….I keep forgetting to type the full words out as they are getting crossed out….
Prole art threat.
by greifi griffie on Oct 2, 2010 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions
wade redden and sheldon souray have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another.
by John Merrigan on Oct 2, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Very different players
But similar in age, game disappearing, and contract (though as you stated earlier, Souray’s contract would be fantastic if he can do what he did two years ago). I like the point you brought up about Souray adding some toughness to the blueline, he does have a lot of value because of that, his shot, and having another veteran on a very young d-core. I would be jumping at the idea if he had one year left on his contract instead of two. Maybe I am being too picky about that…
Souray certainly isn’t shy about shooting the puck (37 games last year, 113 shots). He’d be a gamble… I think the Bluejackets are going to scoop him up though. They have the cap room for Souray ($6,465,417) and I believe they have a chance at Souray before the Rangers. I think Souray is definitely worth consideration, it is hard to ignore a defenseman who once scored 26 goals in a season. It would be a gamble, but who knows? I personally would go with the kids, but I understand the allure of Souray.
In Hank we trust.
In terms of being seriously overpaid underachieving veteran hockey players, they have a lot in common with each other. Another thing in common they have is that both players would be disastrous members of the NY Rangers whose very presence would hold back the development of players who can actually have some bearing on the future of the team. How can you say that hiring one more overpriced old chump of a hockey player is any different from having Wade Redden on your roster? In terms of the message it sends to the prospects and the fans of this franchise it is the exact same thing.
To get rid of one albatross to take on another is stupid. Ranger fans need to stop waving flags for crappy over-the-hill players who can’t play at the level they once did. This team does not need goals from the blueline, Smurf demonstrated that a while back—they need steady play from their defense to help keep goals out of the net. Souray during the best parts of his career was a one-dimensional player on the blueline who was a poor defender.
Prole art threat.
by greifi griffie on Oct 2, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
trade rozi?
if the rangers picked up souray at half price and traded rozi wouldent that free up cap space early with rozi on the books for another 2 or 3 years with souray done in 2?
If White is cut
There’d be enough room to carry both Rozsival and Souray but I still wouldn’t do it. The Rangers have a nice, comfortable cushion of cap space that leaves the option of a trade deadline deal wide open right now. Picking up Souray would almost certainly put us right up against the ceiling. I’d rather have Rozsival than Souray in terms of the defensive part of the game. No doubt Souray would be a beast on the powerplay but he is a big gamble.
In Hank we trust.
can we cut White and Eminger to the 'A'?
that would free up enough space to make it a worthy experiment financially. Or are we too close to the veteran limit on AHL players?
The Loneliest Ranger fan living in Philadelphia.
With Redden being demoted
I think the Rangers are near the limit with the amount of veterans in Hartford.
Official Rule is on page 8 and 9.
A veteran is a player who has played in more than 260 NHL, AHL, or European League games. The limit is 5 veteran players but makes room for a player who has played more than 260 pro games, but less than 320 pro games.
Dane Byers- 245 games (6 NHL)
Kris Newbury- 443 games (48 NHL)
Jeremy Williams- 360 games (31 NHL)
Wade Redden- 994 games
Brodie Dupont- 225 games [should he play this season he would surpass the 260 during the year]
Brian Boyle- 221 professional games [would surpass 260 during the year]
Tim Kennedy- 152 professional games
Both White and Eminger would be over the 260 game mark
I am not sure if it allows for players to surpass the 260 games during the season or not. As you can see the Rangers are pretty tight in terms of veterans in Hartford, some space has opened up with Parenteau moving to the Islanders and Mathieu Dandenault retiring. I don’t think the Rangers would be too keen to lose Eminger (I think they could live with losing Todd White to waivers… but who would take him?). I don’t pretend to understand this whole mess too well but I thought I’d take a shot at trying to clarify it.
Note: I listed Boyle and Kennedy just for reference and because they aren’t guaranteed roster spots.
In Hank we trust.
Its 5 players that can dress each game, not 5 players than can be in the organization.
by Dave Shapiro on Oct 2, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
So technically
There would be room so long as the Rangers only dress 5 of them? Interesting.
In Hank we trust.
Of the 18 skaters (not counting two goaltenders) that teams may dress for a regular-season game, at least 13 must be qualified as “development players.” Of those 13, 12 must have played in 260 or fewer professional games (including AHL, NHL, IHL and European elite leagues), and one must have played in 320 or fewer professional games.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
My mistake
Got so wrapped up adding up professional games played I forgot how to subtract 12 from 18.
In Hank we trust.
this is exactly the type of move Sather would make to screw up a good thing we have going right now. That’s the Sather of last offseason – another mistake he’ll have to clean up.
I want no part of Souray, he doesn’t keep goals out of the net.
+1000
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he went after him.
The Loneliest Ranger fan living in Philadelphia.
Eh...
No doubt that Souray should be picked up by someone but he is still a bit of a gamble. If we get the Souray from 2008-09 or from 2006-07 I’d jump on it but it is more likely we get the injury prone Souray who is on the wrong side of 30. There is no disguising it- if Souray was a Ranger it would mean Gilroy or McDonagh not making the team. While the idea of Gilroy not making the team wouldn’t break too many hearts here on BSB I think it would be a mistake. Gilroy is an RFA at the end of this year… I just don’t know.
There is no denying that Souray has a huge shot and is downright lethal on the powerplay but is he worth the gamble? It would be a return to some questionable moves that Sather has made in the past and ruin his Rainman-esque offseason.
In Hank we trust.
NO WAY, this is the last thing we need. ANOTHER over the hill veteran taking the spot of McDonagh, Valentenko, Gilroy, or Sauer. You said it wouldn’t sacrifice our future but it would. It would sacrifice our future by not being able to clearly play the young guys who are clearly ready to play and learn in the NHL. Its a shame really cause I would argue all three of McDonagh, Valentenko, and Gilroy, heck even Sauer(not a fan of him) earned a job on this team. But there needs to be two cuts still. Im sorry Ryan but I think your completely crazy for thinking picking up Souray is a good idea, the man’s game has completely fell of a cliff. I swear if this happens I would be severely disappointed and pissed off because my favorite hockey club that I’ve followed for so long can’t even think about the future and play young players. If this happens I’ll probably stop watching this team.(extra dramatics lol) But seriously Souray is a step backwards
Sather & Souray
As soon as I read that Souray had been waived, I knew this was coming. Sather has a man crush on Souray and has wanted him for years. I don’t favor taking Souray on reentry waivers unless Sather is able to trade some of our unwanted spare parts to create some cap space and some roster space. Even so, Souray is a huge gamble. He has a huge shot and is feisty. But he is a defensive liability. The Rangers already have several young defensemen that are defensive liabilities. He’d be great on the power play, but what do you do with him the rest of the time?
White vs Souray
That’s really what it comes down to cap-wise and I for one think that a PP1 boasting Souray/MDZ on the points with Gabby/Frolov on the wings would be a legit force to be reconed with. Plus, those who wanna see a youth movement may get it anyway b/c Rosi is already clutching his sore old balls & Sheldon is good to miss 20 games a year anyway.
BRING HIM TO MSG!!!!
Horse walks into a bar, the bartender says "hey, why the long face?" Horse replies: "I have AIDS"
if souray played up to the value of his contract...
if souray played up to the value of his contract then i would take him, but he hasn’t. he has also been injured and has recently shown weak signs of progression. if it was possible, he could have come to nyr on a tryout basis like fedotenko.
Off the record- Avery-Stepan-Fedotenko (great line)
I agree with some people here- let the young kids play
If its for Rozi...why not?
That’s the only way. I’d rather he not take up the spot of a pup, but if he takes the spot of a dog that deserves to be taken out back and shot, then why not? (I know Rozi ain’t THAT bad…but still…)
Rangers defenseman are sort of like NY Giants WRs; they can’t hit the net just like the GIants WRs can’t catch, but when they do…watch out! Souray knows how to stroke from long range.
If the risk is minimal, why not? At least we’d stop have to hear about whether or not Souray’s getting traded to NY, tho I know Elk would still figure something out.
Winning cures all...even stupid
as for his locker room presence
winning cures all. The Oilers have been manure for a minute now so if he is causing a stir, the losing’s most likely the root of it all.
Not saying he’s gonna win here, but he could be exactly what the Rangers need.
Winning cures all...even stupid
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 2, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
i think i’d rather have effing Hal Gill than Souray.
The Loneliest Ranger fan living in Philadelphia.
Souray could be a good fit...
3 years ago.
You guys are losing focus on what really matters this season, and that is developing young players. This is no longer the team loaded with veteran talent that is expected to make at least the conference finals. All Souray does is take away a spot from a young guy. Be reasonable, Souray is not the caliber player that puts this team over the top anyway. Adding Souray would do what? Help the Rangers’ chances of making the playoffs? I believe this team as currently constituted is a playoff team, but not a great one with or without Souray.
This is the type of band-aid that Rangers fans have been yelling about for the past 10 years! I don’t care if you get him at half salary. Imagine if there was no salary cap, the Rangers would have probably signed him when he was a free agent and you all would have been dying to get rid of him by now a la Redden.
Even if knew that without Souray the Rangers finish 13th in the conference and with him they finish 7th, I say I’d rather lose big with the young guys; just making the playoffs is meaningless. I think if the Rangers do bomb this season, the high draft pick they could get would be well worth it—what if they end up drafting someone that can truly put them over the top a couple of seasons down the road?
Can you say that Souray will put this team over the top?
On a side note, I think Gilroy has definitely made the team. In my opinion, there have been no true stand-out defensemen during the pre-season, but Gilroy has been the closest thing to it.
by CombatRat on Oct 2, 2010 10:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’d rather have another veteran presence on the blueline and have that extra young defenseman, who that may be, playing 25+ minutes in hartford in every situation – something he wouldn’t be able to do with or without souray. adding him does not sacrifice youth, everyone here is jumping the gun if they think ryan mcdonagh, pavel valentenko, mike sauer, or even matt gilroy are ready to be bonafide nhl defenseman. the fact is just about every one of them will likely see time in hartford this year. mcdonagh is fresh out of COLLEGE hockey and as a defenseman thats an enormous adjustment, it would do him good to spend some time in hartford. same goes for valentenko who was injured all of last year and played 8 games in the khl – nevermind the fact he needs to get re-acclimated to north american hockey. Sauer at best is a mediocre pro and Gilroy hasn’t shown much improvement from last season thus far.
Everyone is acting as if all of our young defenseman have reached out and EARNED a roster spot. have some of them played well? yes, but none of them have played in such a way that should make anyone think ‘wow this kid has to be on the team’. For example, there has been no derek stepan on the back end. Yes, of course it’s beneficial to have another kid on the backline, but not for the sake of having another one. It’s counterproductive to rush these players into the NHL, something that seemed to have happened with Gilroy. You don’t have young players make the team for the sake of making the team. Souray is still a good defenseman who will cost us nothing and very limited cap space. Its a rare move that lets you improve in the present without sacrificing the future.
by John Merrigan on Oct 2, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I Disagree
Like you said, locks:
Staal-Girardi
Rozsival-Del Zotto
Based on what I’ve seen in Pre-season, you need to include Gilroy.
Final two spots:
McDonagh-Valentenko-Eminger-Sauer
So you have two spots that will be filled, one will definitely be a young guy, the other will probably be Eminger.
So let’s say you have:
Staal-Girardi
Rozsival-DZ
Gilroy-McDonagh
extra Eminger
Lets speculate minutes per game:
Staal- 23:00 min/gm
Girardi- 22:00 min/gm
Rozsival- 21:00 min/gm
DZ- 21:00 min/gm
Gilroy- 17:00 min/gm
McDonagh- 17 min/gm
I based this on last season’s numbers with some slight manipulation. McDonagh taking Redden’s minutes too.
See NHL.com Time On Ice Stats
Tell me which is more valuable, 17 min/gm in the NHL or 25 min/gm in the AHL?
Granted, the young kids will need a blow here and there, but that’s where someone like Eminger comes in. In contrast, if you have Souray, you know he’s probably taking more than 17 min/game as a veteran and PP guy, which means not only has he taken a spot from a young guy, he’s also taking away mintues from your younger players that are in the game.
I don’t think a single person here would say any of these “kids” are being rushed to the NHL. Not one of them is 20 years of age or under. These are fully grown men that have proven their worth over the course of what is considered a very tough training camp and quite a few pre-season games. You don’t want one of them as the 7th defenseman, but if Torts thinks they merit the 6th spot or better they WILL be getting more valuable experience than in the AHL. If at some point during the season you need to reevaluate and send one of the young guys back to Hartford that’s no problem as one of them that didn’t make the team out of camp could then be recalled.
Let me ask, let’s say you get Souray. Okay maybe this season he works out, but what about next season? You can’t tell me now that you want him to block a spot from a young guy again, can you? If one of the young guys has improved over the course of a season in Hartford you’re going to want him to earn a spot in the NHL, and if he does? So maybe you can trade Souray then, maybe you can’t. If you can’t, now what? Waive him?
What if Souray has a terrible season as a Ranger and is a locker-room cancer?
You’re turning Souray into Ray Bourque here. The detriments of getting Souray will outweigh the benefits.
if any of the young defenseman really made a case for themselves during this pre-season it would be a different story. but none of them have and some seasoning in hartford would be a good thing.
by John Merrigan on Oct 2, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
This will not happen
The Rangers would have to wait for nine teams to pass on Souray to claim him and there is no way nine teams will pass on him.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Columbus or Isles
will probably take the chance with Columbus having the best opportunity for claiming him.
Forgetting all the “should Sather or shouldn’t Sather” take a shot – this is the reality.
At 1/2 the cap hit and salary, Columbus will grab him. If they don’t then I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Isles do it based on their injuries.
well
I would actually say if we added Souray its a smart move short term
he really makes our team better right now until McD and Tank are ready
Id take Souray over Rosival thats just me
Rosi looks awful imo
Souray also has some balls which I like
imo I would keep Valentenko on the team right now, i really like his game
McD in time is gonna be a really good player I just think at this stage Tank is better
by Archie Barberio on Oct 2, 2010 12:24 PM EDT reply actions
He can’t play defense. He hits, and he has a cannon, but he can’t play defense. He’s a 3rd pair guy at best, so those who want him instead of Rozsival are then forcing the Rangers to play two young kids top 4 minutes. It’s suicide.
Let someone else have Studley Wonderbomb.
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If Souray's suicide
Rozsival’s like drinking paint thinner
Winning cures all...even stupid
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 2, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I know we hate Rozsival, but he’s much better defensively than Souray.
Camp Torturella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
And the team needs a defensive d-man much more than an offensive one, since if it’s one or the other, we’re talking about a top 4 role.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s stolen. Don’t know if they’re the original source, but that’s a nickname thrown around on C&B for him.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Gilroy
I think he is a pretty good player too and he should be here
but I always wondered if he would be a better forward?
Id rather have Gilroy Tank or McD on the team personally but I just have a feeling the Rangers especially Torts wont keep them
he doesnt like young players
jesus all this talk of Stepan not making the team is f’n nuts too
what more does he have to do? Walk on water?
Avery Stepan Fedentenko is that line right there watch that line is gonna be so good
by Archie Barberio on Oct 2, 2010 12:27 PM EDT reply actions
bring him in, he has a cannon
place ryan mcd and valentenko in hartford. they should be playing 25 minutes a night and getting seasoned.
SCORE FOR R.A DICKEY
R.A Dickey=2011 N.L CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER
by The American Mr.Hockey on Oct 2, 2010 12:36 PM EDT reply actions
One flaw..using only last year’s GVT for the argument.
What you can focus on is that over the last 4 years, Souray’s DGVT is 0.9, 0.6, 3.7, -0.4, compared to Rozsival’s 6.5, 7.3, 6.8, 4.6
In Souray’s good years, his OGVT was much better than anything Rozsival has done, but the total picture says the only thing Souray does appreciably better is beat stuff up.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Still proving my point that he’s terrible defensively.
Rozsival has a cannon of a shot anyway, he just doesn’t shoot. If Rozsival shoots, his offensive numbers will improve.
by Dave Shapiro on Oct 2, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Souray’s qualcomp has been insane since he’s been in Edmonton. If healthy, he’d beat second pairing minutes.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
all i will say on this topic is that i pray columbus with a high waiver position takes him before we ever get the chance.
I really thought we were done with these stupid Souray rumors that have been going on (mostly on slow news days) for a year. Notice Matheson’s language: “the Rangers are likely interested.” This means that he has no idea if the Rangers are interested or not. Anybody can be “likely interested” in anything. The Rangers have been moving in the right direction for months now. Don’t ruin it with an injury-prone aging defensemen who will be the new target of jeers now that Redden is gone.
A defenseman's main purpose
is to play DEFENSE. It’s obvious he can’t. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don’t do this!!!
Worst day: April 10, 1984
by Stepan the Ice! on Oct 2, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions
By the way, all Matheson did was utter some baseless speculation into an article designed to get hits to his website. There is NO logic to his linking the Rangers to Soruay. At all.
well that doesnt matter since all the spec between us and the oil over souray has been exactly that and Brooks also keep pushing it.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Rather have MPS than Eberle, but ok.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not giving them Hank, and I’ll only add Gaborik if we’re getting MPS, Eberle, and Omark.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
There is logic to it. Sather has poked around Souray previously.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
and Brooks said the Rangers would definitely claim him on re-entry waivers, and Brooks seems to be right on this kind of stuff. He has pretty good sources.
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Oct 2, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The logic makes no sense. The Rangers have been scouting the Oilers that are playing. Souray isn’t playing.
Yeah – the Oilers are going to have to waive one of Dubnyk or Deslauriers and probably Peckham.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Let's bring in an injury prone high priced prima donna
who’s best years are long behind him and who’s historically a net deficit while on the ice (at least in the last couple of years).
Yeah – brilliant.
The best news as far as I’m concerned is that NYR management this year seems to be thinking logically for a change. Semenov was mediocre at best, they released him. Exelby seemed disinterested, out of shape or both – they released him. They’ve kept guys in camp that can add value and have played like they want it – Sauer, Valentenko, McDonagh. Even Eminger, who I was not impressed with earlier in pre-season, looked good last night. Not great – but a DISTINCT improvement over Waive DRedden (not that it would take a lot to be an improvement).
Even if we were in 1st position to claim Sourary – there’s no way I would.
The question right now is do you waive Eminger and Sauer and risk losing them to another team (Sauer would be grabbed instantly – Eminger probably would) and go with McDonagh and Valentenko? Or do you send McDonagh and Valentenko down to get some pro experience without any risk – keeping Eminger and Sauer.
I really don’t think they want to lose either of those guys and get nothing in return. In a waiver-less world – you’d keep the Tank and McDonagh. But reality probably dictates that you keep the 2 more experienced guys, so you have depth available at Hartford if there’s a run of bad injuries on the big club.
Staal Girardi
DelZotto Roszival
Gilroy Eminger Sauer
That’s what I think the seven will look like. And I’d be more than happy with it – especially with the insurance policy in HFD of Valentenko and McDonagh readily available for call up with no regular or recall waiver issue at all. The business side almost completely dictates this course of action – and having Sourary in the mix adds nothing positive at all.
I found Dave’s commentary at BlueSeatBlogs to be just as spot on – he does a great job mixing in the statistics to show how completely overrated Sourary is – and the comparison base isn’t even a “star” – it’s Michal Roszival.
Read here: Rangers/Souray
Thanks.
BTW, I agree with what’s going to happen with the defense. Sauer/Eminger will be kept because of waivers, and McDonagh and Valentenko will be sent to Hartford because there is no risk.
there is also “cap consideration” that will be laid out as an excuse cause McD has a bigger hit.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Not as much as it previously would have been though, because when the Rangers waive White, they will have around $5 million to work with in cap space.
i agree, but where white is concerned and eminger for that matter im going to take the redden approach to where i will believe it when i see it.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd take
McD over Eminger too. Eminger looked like a bit of a liability in last night’s game… I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because of his groin injury but he hasn’t looked quite as good as McDonagh (McD was out of position on that play where Spezza skated around and through Eminger and scored that fantastic second effort goal). I like McDonagh because of his upside and his balanced game.
In Hank we trust.
well i meant +1….but 11 works as well.
by Master Ov Brutality on Oct 2, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Waivers, consistent playing time. Unless McD is going to get 15 minutes a game in NY, send him to Hartford to develop properly.
As I said in the other, even Gilroy got 16 min last year. McD will get at least 15, and if he’s better defensively than MDZ, he’ll probably get the top 4, 20 min role.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously the possibility of losing eminger on waivers as a reason, that’s kind of laughable. McD can play third pair where last year Gilroy played 16 min a night.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you think of
McDonagh on the PK? I’d rather him there than MDZ, Eminger, and probably over Gilroy too.
In Hank we trust.
i think even as a 3rd pair he likely gets 2nd pair PK time because of both MDZ and Gilroy’s defensive deficiencies.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Girardi Staal
Rozi McD
As the PK pairs. McDonagh seems to play a very balanced game, I think he might do well playing with Rozi on the PK to learn some tricks.. obviously they’d be the second pair. Hard to think that Eminger would be the better guy for the roster… if we lose him to waivers I won’t exactly shed a tear.
In Hank we trust.
So far in the preseason
The order of the PKers, in ice time per game:
Girardi, Staal, Rozsival, Eminger, Sauer, McDonagh, Gilroy, Valentenko, MDZ,
I don’t know if that will translate to the regular season, but that’s how they’ve been deployed. I should probably organize it by % of available SH time, since penalties weren’t equal game to game.
It’s close enough though, I think.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
well that is somewhat misleading since Eminger and Sauer had the game playing with staal to bump them, but overall about right i suppose.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Sauer had one game of 2:33, without Staal in the lineup.
Eminger got 3:25 without Staal in the lineup also.
I have no idea how to adjust for who was in the lineup that day. It passes the eye test, that’s good enough for me.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
we will see tonight since i just posted the lineup and staal girardi rozi arent playing so interesting to see who kills
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, without being mathy..here’s the ranks game to game:
Gm1: Staal, Girardi, Rozsival, McDonagh, Sauer, Semenov
Gm2: Eminger, Semenov, Gilroy, Exelby, MDZ, Valentenko,
Gm3: Girardi, Sauer, Semenov, McDonagh, Valentenko, Gilroy,
Gm4: Staal, Sauer, Valentenko, Rozsival, Gilroy, MDZ,
Gm5: Girardi, Staal, Eminger, McDonagh, Gilroy, MDZ
So of the bubble boys:
Eminger 2/2 top 4
Sauer 2/3
McDonagh 3/3
Valentenko 1/3
All of which are better than Gilroy 1/4 and MDZ 0/3
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
The only thing I gather from that is whoever makes the team is going to be the 4th PKer ahead of Gilroy and MDZ.
And another reason you can’t get rid of Rozsival for Souray.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Souray is finished, there’s a reason why no one wants him. Even at $2.7 million, why give up that much cap space for a guy who is old and injured? Is he really going to be a difference maker at this point in his career? Play the kids….
So what this guy is 2 years removed from 23 goals, Todd White is 2 years removed from a 70 point season and you don’t see everyone fawning over him.
http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/
My take on veteran defenseman
A lot of people say eminger may become the 7th defenseman because of his veteran presence…my problem with that is he kinda sucks…plus we have girardi and staal who I think are veterans now cuz they’ve been in the league for awhile now…if I were the rangers I’d cut eminger and bring up saur as the 7th to showcase him a bit and then try to trade him…and we need to realize the rangers aren’t much of a threat this year so why not let the young kids play…let them grow and develop some chemistry…also bring leetch and beukeboom to help coach the young kids…let them learn from established nhler’s
by nutz_35 on Oct 2, 2010 1:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
haha this was my exact train of thought as i read through about half of the posts here.
by Master Ov Brutality on Oct 2, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a question
How long does a player have to be on waivers for his cap hit to be halved and then be signed under the re-entry rule?
Waivers are a 24 hour process. FIrst Souray actually has to be assigned to OKC, then he has to be recalled, that’s when the clock starts.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly if you watched the game last night….i wouldnt be the slightest bit surprised if eminger is cut….he doesnt even look good enough for the 7th spot.
by Master Ov Brutality on Oct 2, 2010 1:56 PM EDT reply actions
Since so many of you guys seem like you are active...
NHL.com is streaming the San Jose game against the German club Mannheim.
In Hank we trust.
Shane O’Brien just got waived by Vancouver, now he is a guy who could be a solid 6 and a reason to send McD down if they are desperate to do so.
I’d like it if they picked him up and traded Eminger for a 10th round pick.
Note: I’m away 10th round picks don’t exist…
I know it’s not business like, but I think they’re going to keep Stepan-McDonagh on the same team.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
normally i would agree with you, but i dont believe with either of those two it is necessary to do that.
picking up o’brien alleviates any consternation about dumping eminger, gives you a very solid 6 with some grit or an overpaid 7 if you want to keep McD up here.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Well yes, if they claim O’Brien, McDonagh’s going to HFD. I don’t know that they will though, or even if he wouldn’t get claimed in front of us.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 2, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
he might, isles could use him, maybe columbus, but then i would get nervous about souray, ;-)
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Shane O'Brien
He’ll be long gone by the time the Rangers get a crack at him, right?
I really like that guy though.
In Hank we trust.
well we are 10th in the waiver line, another bonus to the late playoff push
Fla 3, Columbus 4, Isles 5 would all seem to have interest.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's hope
They don’t notice O’Brien being waived. I would take McDonagh in Hartford if it meant O’Brien putting on a Rangers sweater.
In Hank we trust.
McD and Tank would be excellent in Hartford getting huge minutes and being ready to step in for Gilroy and O’Brien next year
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Souray
On a site where 90% of the columns that are posted are unintelligent and based on nonsense this was the exception. I couldn’t agree more with the idea behind your brilliantly written article. Definitely the best one i’ve ever read on this site, keep them coming.
I just threw up in my mouth reading some people actually saying they want him. This is what is wrong with the fanbase too much people getting their panties in a bunch when they hear about a big name player about to be available. The idea of him coming here is repulsive to me.
by CrazyRangerFan on Oct 2, 2010 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
obrien and eminger
O’Brien would be the physical, hard hitting, crease clearing defenseman that would fit perfectly into the 6th spot. Because of that it’s almost a lock that Sather will pass on him.
Eminger has been on 6 teams in 3 years and has done nothing to distinguish himself besides teach his other teammates how to pack. Dump Eminger and pick up O’Brien.
O’Brien would be the physical, hard hitting, crease clearing defenseman that would fit perfectly into the 6th spot. Because of that it’s almost a lock that Sather will pass on him.
Lol. That was a good line. I would love to have O’Brien because of the reasons you listed. I was expecting the Canucks to make a move like this… they have a glut of quality defensemen on that squad.
In Hank we trust.
they have to make another one, they are still well over. this move was basically taking alberts at 550K cheaper over o’brien.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
So much depth at D
The Salo injury may have been good news for Bieksa but if Salo comes back mid-season (I forget his injury severity and when he is slated to come back) Bieksa will be on the market big time. Very interesting. Vancouver’s blueline got fantastic with the additions of Hamhuis and Ballard.
In Hank we trust.
salo’s injury is the reason bieksa wasnt dealt and the money they save with him on LTIR might mean they can get thru without having to make a deal. they have great depth and their best defenseman is the 5th highest paid on the club.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
most depressing part is we could have since we had 8 picks that year before he was taken in the 3rd round.
1st 3 rounds that year we took Montoya, Korpikoski (zajac and wolski went next 2 picks), oliver, byers, graham (booth 2 picks later), dubi, bahensky, ryan.
Vancouver 2 picks got Cory Schneider, Alex Edler
man were we bad at drafting then.
by Michael Gleich on Oct 2, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
let's just play the kids
and let them become veterans. why is that so much to ask?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
let's just play the kids
It’s to much to ask because this organization, althought their more open to the idea than at any time in the last 10 to 15 years has always been drawn to the allure of what veterans bring to the table. How’s that working for them ?
I don't like it
In an Ideal world, I would have all ten fingers on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
i agree with this deal only:
cut todd white and eminger get souray.. perhaps trade rosival… keep kennedy …..
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