Rangers Analysis: Time Running Out for Gilroy?
by Nick Montemagno on Dec 1, 2010 10:34 AM EST
in New York Rangers Analysis
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With the Rangers being so deep on defense, 26-year-old Matt Gilroy's future on Broadway is in question. His name has been thrown around in countless trade rumors, which does not come as a surprise considering how head coach John Tortorella has not really given him the proper opportunity to crack the lineup on a consistent basis at the National Hockey League level. Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun again brought up Gilroy's name in one of his articles recently, saying that if the Blueshirts were to make a move for a center before the trade deadline, the former Hobey Baker Award winner could possibly be a key trading piece.
If the Rangers decide to go get a centre, and they’re expected to make a move for Richards before the trade deadline, they may deal D Matt Gilroy as part of package. The 26-year-old has a cap hit of $1.75 million and will be an RFA next summer. He’s been passed on the depth chart by Steve Eminger and Michael Sauer. Gilroy is young enough that he could bring return. GM Glen Sather can’t afford to wait much longer...
Garrioch is exactly right that Gilroy has been beaten out by Michael Sauer and Steve Eminger, which makes me wonder if he will ever get a chance on the New York Rangers. Personally, I believe the kid has the potential to be a top four defenseman in the NHL, but New York may not be the ideal place for him to do so. If he could not edge Sauer or Eminger, why should I believe he will get a spot on defense over prospects such as Ryan McDonagh and Pavel Valentenko? I do not think he will.
Continue reading after the jump....
Gilroy is an offensive defenseman, so there is not a whole lot of physicality to his game. That is where Tortorella has been disappointed with Matt and that is why Eminger and Sauer are playing over him. If you recall, Gilroy was sent down to the AHL last season because the coaching staff was not happy with his battle level. Battle level usually starts with using the body in a gritty way, something Gilroy is not exactly accustomed to doing.
If Gilroy could somehow build in the physicality area of his game, there is no doubt in my mind that he would be in the lineup every night and his name would not be in all of these trade rumors. But that does not seem like it is happening anytime soon, so that means he will most likely never have a spot on Tortorella's defense. It is unfortunate for him, but you have to realize that hockey is a business as well as a sport.
GM Glen Sather has already stated his desire for a first line center for Marian Gaborik. Teams are obviously going to be looking for youth in return, but Slats would be making a mistake by trading players of this team's core away. Gilroy is young, but not necessarily a part of the core since he does not always play. Therefore, he is probably Sather's most valuable and reasonable trading piece. I would hate to see Gilroy go, but I must admit that trading him for a needed center might make sense.
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I think this is a great idea. obviously the concern is who gets to accompany Gillroy on his move. Of the centers we have who goes with him to get someone like Brad Richards? If I am Dallas I want Arty, I’m not trading richards for gillroy and christensen.
I wouldn't give up
A player that the Rangers are still going to control for a relatively small cap hit (since this offseason will be his first RFA deal) for a rental player.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Dec 1, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
+1
No way to make this deal – giving up tradeable pieces for a rental. Wait until Richards is an UFA then go after him. Unfortunately the CAPS just made a deal for a defenceman; there goes my “deal Rozi to get out from under his cap hit a year early to make space for Richards” idea.
by bleed'n blue on Dec 1, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Keep in mind that Gilroy wouldn’t be the centerpiece of any deal for Richards. He would be a throw in to offset salary. Gilroy has no trade value, and that goes for everyone on that list frankiec made except for Rozsival, who has great trade value.
But the thing is, with Dallas in the playoff hunt, why would they trade their best player?
Exactly
Dallas won’t trade Richards as long as they see a chance making the playoffs. And why would the Rangers give up picks and/or young players for a guy that’s an UFA next summer? If Sather wants Richards I expect him to make a move during the summer.
Avery / Dallas
Avery is “only on the books for half his cap hit” because DALLAS IS PAYING THE OTHER HALF. So if we’re talking trade with Dallas for Richards, you can eliminate Avery from the equation immediately. Dallas wants nothing to do with him.
Dallas would likely want something similar to what Jersey gave up for Kovy. A young gun (Gilroy), solid mid-liner, and a pick. The problem is, all the Rangers that fit the bill are in the final years of their contracts (Christensen, Frolov, etc.) and that defeats the purpose of Dallas making said trade. And since there’s no way they lose Dubi or Callahan, it would probably wind up being Boyle or Prust going with Gilroy and an early pick.
Plus – if Dallas is still where they are in the standings and think they have a serious chance at making it to the finals, then Richards isn’t going anywhere. He would only be unloaded if they felt they were in a position to start getting a hold on next season’s roster.
Pierre McGuire needs to go away.
by MartyEqualsPansy on Dec 1, 2010 11:38 AM EST reply actions
Gilroy is not a “young gun”. He is not even a gun. He is a throw in.
by Dave Shapiro on Dec 1, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
When you say young gun, you would mean Dubinsky or Callahan.
by Dave Shapiro on Dec 1, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Our centers are fine
I’d go into the playoffs any day with Stepan, AA, Drury and Boyle(in that order).
It may just be me but i think we need another shut down/pp defensemen.
A trade of Gilroy, Frolov and second round pick to get a really good defensman (like that guy from Florida i forget his name) would be nice.
by louielounz1 on Dec 1, 2010 11:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Brian McCabe
Although he has a nmc, he probably would waive it. I know i would. Giving us a solid dman to juice the second pp unit, leadership, as well as have a second line LEFT HANDED shot that we need leaving us with: Staal – Girardi, McCabe – Roszival, MDZ – Sauer
Downside…35
Upside…pure rental his 5 mill contract is up after this year.
by louielounz1 on Dec 1, 2010 12:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rozi goes back in that deal but i think he has a limited amount of teams he would go to and I’m sure Florida is one of the ones he wouldn’t
You think so
I don’t mind trying to move Rozy in the offseason. There will be takers then and we could use him this year if we are serious about anything.
I'm not a Rozi fan
By any stretch of the imagination but without him they would be minus one of their top 4 defenseman and plugging in a guy that isn’t used to playing his minutes or the level of competition. If you’re going to trade Rozi you do it in the offseason when some teams need to figure out if they need to hit the cap floor.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Dec 1, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Rozi just missed the last 3 weeks and the defense didn’t miss him at all. Sauer and Eminger have emerged as solid players making him and his salary expendable.
Im not a Rozi fan at all but MDZ’s play was significantly worse when Rozi was out of the lineup. He picked his play up towards the end of that stretch but still looked way more comfortable when Rozi came back
by nyrangerfan521 on Dec 1, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
So I think the deal would look more like Rozi, Gilroy, and a 2nd…….I would also add Frolov, not sure if they would want him and are we giving away too much at that point?
i think i’d be more inclined to grab Booth or Weiss before Mc Cabe however.
I would be inclined to get one of them but
Where do they go?
We have top minutes distributed already.
Also, Rozy was missed because MDZ looked like he needed his mommy when Rozy wasn’t around. Booth and Weiss sound nice but I have a hard time believing they would work out. A defensman is needed. Our top three are Staal, Girardi, and Rozy but then a big drop off to Sauer, MDZ and Eminger. I like Suaer and Eminger but they can platoon for the whole year.
I’m more concerned with having a second shut down pair that every team besides (us, the isles, Edm, Ott and the devils) seem to have.
I would move Rozi
If we are truly embracing the notion that this team is in a rebuilding phase and ~2 years away from being a contender, then why wait out Rozi’s contract until he’s a UFA? Move him while he still has value. There are several teams that should be willing to take a 1-2 year rental for a top 4 defenceman. I’d even move him for draft picks. What would be a waste is to let him get to UFA, not resign him and get nothing in return. This has nothing to do with my opinion of Rozi as a player, it is looking at the state of our team, the age of the player, his cap hit, and the future. Sure, we will struggle a bit on D, but it will let us learn sooner rather than later the state of our deep pool of defensive prospects. If we’re really commited to going young and rebuilding, go all in and let the kids play. Maybe they will surprise us.
The centers are adequate, we’d all like to see upgrades, particularly in the faceoff department.
None of them are elite passers that can help distribute the puck on the rush (the Rangers can usually get a decent enough cycle, but it’s rare they get oddman breaks because getting the puck through the neutral zone has proven to be a problem at times).
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Dec 1, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Although Vinny P. and Drury have yet to come back and those are key faceoff guys for us. I like Stepans’ vision thus far and he will improve.
I agree although I can see moving Drury to wing for a #1 center. Richards probably won’t happen until after the season. Richards won’t command $7.8 in his next contract probably more in the area of $5.5M
Trade at the Deadline for Richards or McCabe
Gilroy $1.8M
White $2.6M
Frolov $3.0M
Christensen $925K
After the season
All these players are up for renewal
Gilroy $1.8M
White $2.6M
Frolov $3.0M
Prospal $1.0M
Fedatenko $1.0M
We’ll need at least $5M to resign our RFAs. If we keep Eminger then we have no room for another D. If we drop Eminger we can sign a top D or bring up McD or Tank. If that is the case then we are set on defense and can pick up Richards for $5.5 and another veteran forward for $1M we would only increase payroll by around $2.5M. If we sign a D as well then it could be as high as $7M increase. If the cap goes up to $66M we should be ok and bring in two top players.
by Leetch4prezofNYR on Dec 1, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
None of those players have trade value.
by Dave Shapiro on Dec 1, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
True
Hence why we’d be better off going after a solid defenseman and not an all star center. Remember I said this my fellow Banter peeps, trade Cally or Dubi and we get scoring, but we become quite possibly the softest team in the league. As well as sellouts just for an extra couple of goals a week…maybe. Screw getting Richards. I would wait for the offseason to snatch him up.
I also think Richards totals more points than all of those players in the trade proposal combined this year.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Dec 1, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Richards has 28 pts in 23 games, if he keeps up that pace, or even if it slows down just a little theres no way he asks for only 5.5. A former conn smyth winner (even though it was however long ago) that averages more than a pt a game will be asking for at least 6.5 to 7 mil
by nyrangerfan521 on Dec 1, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
and richards and his agent know that. theres no way richards takes less than 7 mil from the rangers when he knows they signed gomez, drury and a guy who at the time was thought to be made of glass, for over 7 mil.
if by some miracle richards will take only a few years at less than 6 million then im all for it, but this franchise could be set back years if they sign him long term for over 7 mil. This team doesnt need him long term. Let the youth come in and get the job done. Step AA and Boyle should be the centers this team builds around
by nyrangerfan521 on Dec 1, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
The UFA situation is far different than it was when the Rangers overpaid for Gomez and Drury – they and pretty much all other teams have learned their lesson over the past few years. Gabby is a somewhat different case, but he was significantly younger than Richards when he signed, and the Rangers were more desperate for his talents at the time than they are for Richards now, with Stepan becoming a better playmaking center by the day and Anisomov showing he can be a legitimate top 2 center for a team as well.
by LJR on Dec 1, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
Kovy has a hit of $6.6M at 27. No way Richards who is 30 gets more money than Kovy. Just because he has a point a game today does not mean he will average a point a game over the next few months. He is historically a 50 to 60 pt producer.
by Leetch4prezofNYR on Dec 1, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
He is historically a 50 to 60 pt producer.
He’s what now? He’s never had fewer than 62 points in a season, except in ’09 when he had 48 in 56 games.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 1, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
the only way u get him at 6 or under is if you give him 10 years. kovy’s hit is bought down because of how many years hes signed for. Guys will take a little less per year if they know they will be making that type of money until they are close to 40. This isnt the NFL where u can just cut a guy in the offseason and forget about him, so of course a guy will take less per year for the security
by nyrangerfan521 on Dec 1, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think teams in general (including the Rangers) have gotten smarter with the cap over the last couple of years, so I don’t know that Richards will be seeing a long term 7 mil per year contract from any team. If the Rangers can get him for 3 or 4 years at 6 million per year, fine. Otherwise, I hope they pass. Over the next 3 years Richards will slow down and Stepan and Anisimov should improve, so that Richards may only be the Rangers 3rd best center by then. And the Rangers have young organizational depth at the position, with Boyle (if his start is not a fluke) and a bunch of junior players who are showing they have a chance to compete for full time jobs in a couple of years, with Werek, Bourque and Horak. I’m not saying I wouldn’t take Richards over Boyle, Werek, Bourque or Horak, or all 4, but the Rangers position is such that they have no need to tie up Reddenesque cap space (or more) on Richards.
by LJR on Dec 1, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
i 100% agree, Step and AA will be the 1-2 centers of the future for this team and even if Boyle’s start is somewhat of a fluke hes still a solid 4th line center which is all he needs to be
by nyrangerfan521 on Dec 1, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Random Stat totally off topic
When we are outshot our winning % is .714
When we outshoot the opponent our winning % is .400
…Weird.
Usually what you see is that we’ll outshoot an opponent when trying to comeback (ala the Tampa Bay game) and wind up with more shots. Same goes for the other way around-we go into a shell when we lead and wind up getting outshot.
It’s also about skill level-this team always gives up lots of shots-think Floridagame -but they don’t have the skill level to capitalize on all their shot attempts.
Yup, this is pretty standard. What you want to look at his shooting when the score is tied, and further, all shots, not just SOG.
Thus, the Corsi number.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 1, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
All these trade prognosticators are funny. Fine, Gilroy will be part of a package for let’s say Richards. And who else? Richards will want $7M+++++ per. With all the RFAs we have next year and Stepan improving, PASS.
This is just the old Larry Brooks rumor regurgitated over and over again
Larry Brooks gave man birth to these Brad Richards rumors like two years ago suggesting a package built around Rozi would be enough to pluck Richards from the Stars. This trade idea (not rumor) actually wasn’t bad at the time. But then ESPN, Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun and all these other media outlets took Brooks idea and reported it as a legitimate trade talk.
It’s actually a common formula for these “reporters”…something I wrote about couple weeks back called Idiots Guide To Creating Trade Rumors.
These writers just never learn…
http://thehockeysuit.com/
In reality, unless one of the defensive prospects in Hartford is ready to come up-I think we need to hold onto Gilroy as a 7th D. If somebody gets injured, he can at least fill in; he knows the system and hasn’t really failed, he’s just been out-‘jammed’ by other D. At this point he has absolutely no trade value unless another team wants an expiring contract in which they might give up a semi-decent 3rd liner/3rd pair D with a couple years left on their contract.
I don’t think he’s center-piecing any deal we make-he’s really just a cap casualty in any deal.
Can we leave Richards out of it? What we’d have to give up to get him, for what is essentially a developmental season, would be ludicrous.
Dont give up hope!
Look I go to BU, I saw the guy play up close all year when we won the title in 09. Yes, I know college hockey is not even close to being on the same level, but gilroy definitely has the skills to be a very productive pro. We all know he’s great offensively, and I think torts needs to just give him more ice time in his system. I agree with caerid, giving gilroy more time at del zottos expense is not a bad thing. Mdz is 20 years old, he’s got tons of hockey ahead of him. He’s going through a rough year, so torts PLEASE give matty more chances to play the point. I believe trading him away would be a mistake, and we would end up regretting it. He has the talent to create a spark in any game, at any time, and I think it would be a poor decision to trade that away because he hasn’t fully adjusted to our system.
by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Dec 1, 2010 2:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The problem that will arise with Gilroy is that he’s a FA at the end of the year, he’s right-handed, and he’s already 26. He’s going to lose the numbers game for all of those reasons, so if it’s possible to extract value for him, even a 3rd rounder at the deadline, they really should investigate it. It’s not like other players who fans just want to run out of town, it’s sensing the reality of the situation. He’s 7th on a 6 man unit, and there are teams that could stand to fill out the back of their defense.
The only alternative is to free up a RD slot, which means Rozsival or Sauer. Sauer is younger and better defensively, and Rozsival, while loathed, has played solid defense, and is a veteran, which vocalized or not, Tortorella wants on the back end.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 1, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
this is true, i understand it could be a bad situation for him, and would understand if he got traded…
im obviously biased in his favor because of the school thing haha
rozi has played much better this year, and i frickin love sauer from what i’ve seen, the guy doesnt take crap from anybody
by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Dec 1, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Trust me...
Just because you go to BU and he was great doesn’t mean he can play in the NHL. He will never be more than a 6th defenseman, Gilroy is just awful.
Proudly suffering as a Ranger fan.
"C'mon, vagina is my 3rd favorite hole." -Drama
I saw Higgins and this guy Ray Giroux play all the time at Yale and said the same thing about them. Watching the way Giroux commanded the ice I was amazed that he didn’t get more NHL years…a couple of stretches with the Devils and a few other clubs then off to Europe. The NHL is definitely a different animal.
Not surprisingly, I love the idea of moving MDZ down to Hartford and giving Gilroy some time to settle in. Even better, send them both down to Hartford and let Gilroy play wing for a few months and then bring him back as a forward.
d
well either way, should be a good hockey weekend for me:
rangers home and home vs. the isles
BU home and home vs. BC
two great rivalries right there
hopefully kreider doesn’t kill us again, though in a way i won’t mind if he does haha
by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Dec 2, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
For better or worse
The organization has decided that DZ is a future fixture for the team. He was a first round draft pick, he had a good start to last year and they want him to learn the position at the NHL level.
Gilroy was a relatively low risk/reward signing that came along with a good story (local player, walk on at school, wears a number to honor his late sibling). He’s a converted forward, played a mostly offensive role on the BU blueline. It took him a while to re-find his offensive game this year but by that time the other righties on D had asserted their style in the lineup.
There’s higher ceiling talent in the pipeline at D, it’s tough to imagine that he gets brought back to be a 7th D next year and it wouldn’t be the best thing for his career either.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Dec 1, 2010 2:52 PM EST reply actions
Speaking of defensemen...
Anyone know whats up with Mikhail Pashnin? He was the number one over all pick in the KHL a few years ago and I was all excited that we had his rights. Now I see he got dropped down to Moscow’s equivalent of the AHL. Anyone know any possible reasons behind his brutal season? Nagging injury or something?
What about trading Gilly to the islanders for one of their young centers
Let’s be honest the islanders have a great group of forwards who are out of the playoffs.
Who is their #1 and #2 center?
What would it take to get one of them?
I think it will take a bit more than Gilly to land Tavares…
by Potvin Sucks! on Dec 1, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
we dont need richards and his cap hit of 7.8 million too crazy..
id rather have kovalchukk.. hahahahahahhahah!! no look what happened to the devils..
Remember when Stan Fischler picked Gilroy to win the Calder Trophy at the start of last season? Haha, I love that old nut.
Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.
http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo
http://twitter.com/poplosertwit
he also picked Avery to have 30 goals LOL
by CrazyRangerFan on Dec 1, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Gilroy
I don’t think you should feel sorry for Gilroy. The coaching staff has been up front with him
and has given him ample time to play with an edge to his game. Softly rubbing opposing players in the boards is not what the coaching staff had in mind when they asked him to play more physical. If Gilroy had the offensive flair to put up some numbers than Torts would lay off him. But Gilroy is no Rafalski and never will be so he is the odd man out.
Does the idea of having depth on the pro squad make everyone so twitchy that they have to trade away the 7th d-man? I mean, Rozi just got back from injury, and if we hadn’t have had a 7th defender, we would have called up one of our not ready prospects to play 3 min a game and look pretty the rest while the other 5 play shorthanded, as is the usual Ranger custom. Not to mention, having a healthy competition for a place in the team is a good thing, since it forces Sauer, and Eminger I suppose as well, to continue to play well, or Gilroy will have a chance to step in and prove he deserves the sweater. I mean, is anyone THAT confident that Sauer can’t have a rookie season slow down in the second half (last year Del Zotto and Gilroy both fell victim to that)?
by broadwayblueshirts on Dec 1, 2010 6:29 PM EST reply actions
Never any guarantee that a player won’t wear down over the season, but far less likely for Sauer than for Gilroy or MDZ last year, since Sauer has already had 3 years of pro hockey under his belt, while MDZ and Gilroy were new to the pro game last year.
by LJR on Dec 1, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
NO plain and simple
Richards cost too much f’n money and he isnt young
this would be a Drury esque move
dont do it
if you want a Center wait or go young at least
jesus christ when will this franchise wakeup
Agree, unless the money is reasonable (i.e., less than 6 million) and the years are reasonable too (ideally 3, no more than 4).
still a big NO
Richards is not the answer long term or short term
if they want a Center, go and trade for a younger player or wait until the offseason to sign a more prominent player
really we need a Center but imo we need another Winger, Frolov isnt going to be that guy for us
we need another scorer, Gaborik cant do it alone, go out and get a scoring winger
stop trading our young talent, build around your young talent Gaborik Henrik and Staal Dubinsky Callahan
young guys you build around like Stepan MDZ Staal Gilroy Girardi AA
its time to start building with what we have, we have plenty of talent, we lack a true big time Center and another scorer, if we get that this team is set
by Archie Barberio on Dec 2, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, except that neither Gilroy nor Girardi are all that young.
by LJR on Dec 2, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
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