Playoffs and Player Evaluations: Perceptions vs Reality
Apologies in advance for the length...
Over the last week or so as the talk of getting a top 5 draft pick this season and selling off parts that are tradable (prospal, girardi) either in bigger deals as the rumored Horton deal of the last couple days or for picks to help continue to build the farm system with talent. To these types of suggestions there has been a mix of support for the idea of selling what we can and getting a high draft pick, while the other side of that opinion considers it unfathomable to give up on a season and likes to throw around the term tank when this subject is mentioned. As I have said before there is a huge difference between selling what you can and "Tanking." When I hear the phrase tank I think about benching your best players just so you lose games and I will be the first to say that is cowardly and disgraceful. That in my opinion and maybe I will just speak for myself is never something that I have suggested doing.
As I said above what I have suggested is selling for more picks and not being buyers to try and squeak into the playoffs. Yes there is the part of all of us as fans that believes that if they got into the playoffs anything can happen and while technically it can, the reality is it doesn't in hockey. The problem with the anything can happen in the playoffs and don't give up on the season side of this debate is in very short order it could become a moot point. We have played 60 games already this year and after tonights loss this team that apparently could make a run to win it all is under .500. The first thing honestly that comes to mind when I hear playoffs and this team is Jim Mora. All the indignation against the word "tank" misses the reality that as constructed this team is tanking all on its own with 4 points in the last 10 games. No team in the league has less points in the last 10 than us, only the islanders even tie us.
With the results of tonights games the Rangers have now fallen 5 points out of 6th, and 4 points behind 7th and 8th while sitting in 11th overall, 3 points from 13th in the East and 7th fewest points in the league. Yes I am well aware that 4-5 points can be made up in 22 games, but what is also not reflected in the current standings is that every team from 7-10 all holds 2 games in hand on the Rangers, so it might be more accurate to classify it as being down 6 or 7 points not 4 or 5. Then we come to the reality of the upcoming schedule. In the last two games before the break they go to Pitt whom they cant seem to get over the hump against as we have lost all 4 games thus far this year and follow that up with a home game against suddenly hot again TB who destroyed us there and we destroyed here all with questions at this point on the availability of Gaborik, though apparently Friday is looking very possible if not likely for him to play.
The schedule doesn't get any easier following the break where we start with games @Ott, Pitt, @Was, Buf, @NJ who are currently the top 5 in the eastern standings. So what right now is a 3-4 point hole against the teams in front of us for the final playoff spots could oh so easily be 6, 8, 10 points after these seven games it total and then you are looking at having to make that up w 15 games left just to even get in. I wish that with this team we have this year I had that same blind hope in the possible run into the playoffs and run deep in the playoffs, but I guess I have pulled as much emotion out of it and am looking at the reality of the team in front of me.
The question then becomes how if I am saying to sell could I advocate for a trade for a Nathan Horton. To me a deal for Nathan Horton, whether it could be giving up Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan is one that adds talent to this team and sure it could add a few points to the final tally on the season, but it is a move that has the potential to be both a buy and sell move. What I mean is that in Horton sure you could get a few more points this year, but it is a buy move for the next 3 years not a stop gap get me in the playoffs move (ie Antropov last year). I personally love the potential Dubi has and the heart that Cally plays with every night, but for anyone who is hockey fan not just a ranger fan to think that either is a better player than Horton means they cannot separate the emotion of the sweater they wear to see the actual hockey skill possessed by both. We can argue the merits of what Dubi and Cally have done on the ice, but what always seems to show up is the heart/grit type comments of which why for many of us even those of us who would trade cally before dubi love cally. There is a reason that players like Cally, Avery and a Prust, or the Orr, Ortmeyers before are fan favorites and there is nothing wrong with that, but we also have to at some point admit it isn't totally about production or skill. Cally obviously is more skilled and productive than the others listed there.
Examples have been brought up recently in different threads of these types of blinders in the difference in fan reaction to the same things by players who are and those who aren't fan favorites. Prime example is Higgins who clearly underachieved and couldn't hit the ocean from the sand this year in terms of goal scoring but he did all the little things the fan favs get credit for and produced just as many goals as Avery, hitting the net as often as well, but Higgins sucked on offense while Aves has excuses made for him. Avery's antics for the most part amuse me as much as anyone here, but how many games can we realistically say that Sean has shown up and made a real difference for this team in his play, maybe a dozen if we are generous? Dallas and mostly division games are the ones that come to mind.
Same happens with Dubinsky vs Callahan as Dubi is called inconsistent (which he is) and underachieving while producing more efficiently than Cally (partially due to linemates, but Cally also gets a huge boost this year from PP1 time) while Cally is working hard. Frankly I expected a lot more from Cally this year and maybe he is pressing too much because of the A I don't know, but with what he showed at the end of last year under Torts, I thought 25-30 G was not out of the question and if not for a few goal spurs he wouldn't even be at the 15 he has now. Cally has had 2 7 game and 1 6 game streak this year of zero points, so why isn't he labeled as inconsistent in his production?
Same can be said on defense where if one the R sisters who are awful, but have each played well in spurts this year, Rozi more often, makes a mistake defensively that leads to a goal the lambasting begins while if it is MDZ or even Gilroy the apologists come out. I know MDZ is young and learning, but we must also admit there are plenty of times where he looks in over his head or makes mistakes that cost us goals or games and we cant apologize for him and blame it all on age just because we love his offensive upside. This obviously isn't directed at any one person, but more a general double standard that in many ways develops naturally based on the level of attachment we get with certain players over others.We can call some of the guys out that we love without loving them any less and we can give credit to those we dont like as much when it is deserved.
The final thought is as a fan, is the goal of the team to get to the playoffs or win a championship? My thought was the goal for every team each year is to win the whole thing. Obviously for some that goal seems more realistic and attainable than for others, but the gal is the same. Is there anyone that realistically not just hopes but believes this team can win 4 series when they cant even consistently show up from one night to the next. If the NHL playoffs was like the NFL where it is one game winner take all then maybe it's different and that is where the anything can happen really stems from, and baseball where wildcards win the title as well. The reality is Pittsburgh last year as a 4 seed in the East was the lowest seed to win the cup in the decade. As much fun as last year's series with Washington was and how they almost beat them, did getting Antropov and giving up a 2nd round pick, even getting Morris make the Rangers any better for the future?
I am not saying for the rest of the year I will sit here and root against the Rangers winning because I cant do that, but I also cant try to delude myself into believing this team is a contender, or is anywhere near that a trade to get us into the playoffs will make us one. We have a lot of young talent on the team and coming through the system, but another piece of reality is that in those youngsters we do not possess one true superstar talent. Some of them have the potential to be very good in AA, MDZ, Grachev, Stepan, but I don't see any of them as superstars to compete even on the 2nd tier (saying Ovie, Crosby, Malkin, Kovy, maybe Gabby's of the league are 1st tier) with Toews or the Sedins as players that can carry a team even like Gabby is doing this year. Every team needs role players and players that actually play to those roles, but championship teams also need in many cases at least two superstars outside of the net to win. We have one in Gabby and if losing this year can actually help the rangers in the long run by adding a true talent like Hall, Seguin, Nino then call me a traitor or a tanker if you want, but as far as I am concerned I am a fan looking out for the future even if it means it hurts right now. Reality is any of those guys could flame out as well, as other ranger high picks (also not an excuse to say it is pointless to pick high cause they screwed it up in the past), but from where i am sitting what we continue doing over and over of trying to buy the next piece is not working in making us a more legit threat so maybe something new is in order.
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You’re right – no one can seriously argue that going far in the playoffs is a realistic goal this year, and it may be that even making the playoffs isn’t realistic. Friday is as good as lost – we cannot beat that team, anywhere – and the lineup after the Olympic break is like a Murderer’s Row of teams that are just flat better than us. So I think you’ll get your wish, we’ll get a high draft pick. Looking at the team tonight without Gaborik you see how much improvement we really need. It just seems like Sather has no coherent plan on how to get there.
I saw “apologies in advance for the length”, scrolled down, went “ugh..”, looked at the time, (3:25 am)… my eyes are barely open, and thought “dammit. I can’t possibly read this now.”
I just had to post this comment haha. you out did me.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
I agree
It’s like we’ve discussed in previous threads..
A high pick will be best option for the rangers long-term.
I can really root against them.. BUT… for the rest of the season i wont get sad if they loose.
(btw.. just woke up so i couldnt read the whole post.. but will do so later)
I have no problem packaging up a Dubi or Cally as long as we can dump a Redden, Drury, or Rosival. I would hope we could truly start building for the future. I have no faith in Sather’s ability to responsibly build a team. I am losing faith in Torts as a coach. I don’t think we have a captain motivating his teammates.
However, I have to disagree on a few points. You can’t compare the R+R sisters to MDZ. MDZ is 19 and has a huge upside potential. He should be forgiven and coached. Yes he makes mistakes. Maybe fans are forgiving of him because he is a "favorite", but maybe just some of them are smart enough to realize this that he has a huge potential in the future. He is doing a great job running the power play out of the back… and while that doesn’t show up in stats it is important and he does it well. And look at is salary hit, he is an asset plain and simple.
I see Gilroy different… I love the idea of moving him. You can sell him as a rookie with huge upside. And while he is a late bloomer and will likely improve. He is old for a rookie and I don’t see him having the potential of a younger player. The rookie argument is still valid and I respect fans with that view.
And while you point out Avery is not effective this year. He has proven in the past that he does make a difference. In the past the teams winning percentage last was significantly better when he was in the lineup. This could be a coincidence or there could countless reasons for this, but on a team that seems to lack motivation, maybe there is something to the fact that he can actually help the team. He’s entertaining, and not a big salary hit. He’s likely a coach’s nightmare, but that is something coaches have to deal with. He is not something to build a team around, but he is a useful piece. Higgens looked like he would never be effective. I’m sure he’ll do great in another system. There was little evidence he would ever make a difference in New York. They are similar players. I could be wrong, but it seemed Higgens got more ice time. He certainly failed to score with a lot more opportunities (although Avery has missed plenty of good ones as well). I think there really is a difference in Avery’s ability to be a game changer (even though it is sometimes for the worse). I wish we had a big shutdown defenseman who could also enforce, but on a team the lack toughness we need the grit that Avery provides. I wish it was something better.
Players are fan favorite mostly because they are fun to watch, but all fans aren’t stupid.
To answer the question of what is the goal of the season? It is to win the Cup. To expect it is unreasonable. What we should expect of the Rangers organization is to put the best team they can out there and have them play to their fullest potential. I have been a fan for a long time and many times I wished they could just make the playoffs. That would have been enough. This year I could care less about making the playoffs, because I see a brighter future.
I have argued all year we should have seen more AA and Lisen (a player I think also has untapped potential). I am all for playing youth and moving to the future.
Management, coaches, and players have failed. A good pick or great trade will not make any difference if we continue to sign horrible contracts and fail to motivate players.
We should be thinking next season and the next 4 seasons after that.
+1
I will never enjoy seeing the Rangers miss the playoffs. And while I see alot of good things coming from this year, I will concede that even miracles take some effort. If they were busting their tails all year and still came up short, thats one thing. But great games have been few and far between, the only consistency is that they appear flat-footed and soft on the puck most nights.
My favorite saying goes " Dont rip up the garden, when all you need is to trim a few weeds". Well in the case of Madison Square, there’s more then a few weeds, but there’s still some promising seeds planted. If they could get rid of the giant tree stumps on their blueline, they could make an honest run as early as next season.
But what needs to be avoided is an all-out fire-sale. As bad as buying at the deadline might be; getting rid of the heart and soul of this team could be as equally bad long-term. Callahan should be locked up for as long as he can. Not only a fan-favorite, but I suspect a team-favorite; I dont think you’ll find a work-ethic like his in any sport. How else would a 15 goal scorer get named to an olympic team?
They should also hold Staal, MDZ, Gabby, Prospal, Hank, Avery, and Lisin. Thats a solid core right there. Dubinsky’s holdout in the beginning of the season makes me think he values himself over the team, so he’s expendable in my book. Trade him to a team needing goals, and get a big tough D-man for him straight up.
Their two priorities for the deadline/off-season should be:
1. A legitimate scoring threat , to force teams to stop keying on Gaborik.
2. A defenseman who can clear the crease. Right now the D in front of our net looks like overdone spaghetti.
So while I’ll never say I want them to lose, I agree that we need a few more bodies to build a franchise around. And Draft-wise, you’re not going to get a franchise player from outside of the top-5 picks.
Thanks to Mleetch for the dose of reality (and eating up an hour of my workday!)
Blunter than Sather's Cigars....
by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 11, 2010 2:28 PM EST reply actions
ummm...
this is an excellent post. thanks. not much to add to your analysis. i think it explains both sides of the tanker divide…i’m obviously an anti-tanker, but you are totally right…its a moot point. they ARE tanking. no use in keeping the heads in the clouds about it. the odds definitely are against them making the playoffs so the question becomes, 1) what moves do we make and 2) do we stand behind our club or do we just start ragging like brats. i mean, if we do have confidence in sather’s youth movement, than we just hang tight and believe that this is all a learning process. we’ve seen teams do this before…have a couple of rugged years with homegrown talent that explode after a poor season…but i’m not sure this is the case here. building a team is a delicate art. i’m for a big trade and nobody, not even gabby or hank is “off” the table assuming that we get our money’s worth. before messier came to town bernie nichols was holding down the fort and we were in a phase, if i remember correctly, of swinging between 2 and 7 games above five hundred. i liked nichols a lot…but we got messier and a cup. in no way should loyalty stand in the way of smart moves. nothing should blind us from the fact that this combination isn’t working. but tanking on purpose and chasing the basement for an iffy draft pick is out of the question.
on mdz, i really like him and his youth and i think he’s growing at just the right pace but the truth is he’s been average to horrible for months and is a part of the reason we’re diving. it just drives me crazy that this blueline can’t keep the puck in the zone. playing d is crucial but protecting the line is essential for our offense. as it stands, we can’t even drop the puck back to the point with any confidence at all.
great, great post…one of the reasons i love following this blog. THANKS!
+2
…I also agree…an excellent evaluation… I do like Callahan, but Dubinsky has to go…he can’t finish to save his life, but he is tradeable:… I think that Gilroy has a tremendous up side and I think he should get more power play time to see what he can do, not to disparage MDZ, but I think Gilroy is a hidden gem. I agree we need a second scoring threat and a big D man that can clear the crease, but we also need a playmaking center and another solid, veteran winger/defenseman for next year (though, it wil be tough to move R and R, and I don’t think Prospal wil be back) to go with the youth movement (Anisimov, Grachev, Etc.)…There is no reason we can’t turn it around next year and be an second tier elite team that can compete with Pitt/Wash/NJ
It would be truly awesome if we could move Gilroy as a centerpiece in a deal for horton w/o including either dubi or cally. I know the liklihood of this is slim if any, but we certainly do have enough prospects chips to make any deal with Florida worthwhile for them. I think at this point i’ve accepted Drury being here for the duration. Rozi has been playing better of late. If they do move him…..and waive redden, all of a sudden there is some cap space. re sign Staal….girardi likely goes in a deal…..I would not mid Prospal staying if we can’t get the pick we want for him, and if Olie keeps playing well, possibly signing him too. Those are legit scorers, cleared cap amybe for ……Kovi? I don’t know if that is possible. I guess we’ll see in another 10 days whats gonna happen here. The reality of it is that we might beat the Devils in the first rd. but i don’t see us challenging anyone in the east seriously…..so why bother.

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