For the Rangers, The Seasons Don't Change
by Jim Schmiedeberg on Feb 12, 2010 1:01 AM EST
in New York Rangers Analysis
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PrintWhen the Rangers take on the Pittsburgh Penguins tomorrow night, it will be the 82nd game of the John Tortorella regime, meaning he has essentially spent a full season as Rangers head coach.
When a politician runs for President against an incumbent, they love to ask the question, "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?"
Well Ranger fans, are the Rangers any better off than they were a "season" ago?
First let's look at the record: John Tortorella is 38-34-9 in his tenure as Rangers coach, not counting an 0-3 stint as interim coach in 2000. Tom Renney was fired in 2009 with a record of 31-23-7.
Renney was fired because the Rangers were lackluster in every department, were playing lifeless hockey, and not scoring goals. What's changed? I'll ask you again: Are the Rangers any better off than they were a "season" ago?
Check out these two quotes:
"We had lost our zip at some point, we were a fast, puck-possessive hockey club that was determined and worked very hard and moved the puck well. We've gotten away from that and that's why we made the change."
"Torts is certainly a lot more fiery and a lot different in his approach to the game and the players, He's going to bring that fiery attitude, and a lot of the games we seemed to be missing it."
That was Rangers President and General Manager Glen Sather, commenting on the firing of Renney, and the reason for hiring Tortorella.
A "season" later, have they regained any of those qualities?
Plenty more after the break...........
They say in sports that a team takes on the personality of its coach. I would argue this team has no personality whatsoever. They aren't a defensive team, they aren't an offensive team, they aren't a "feisty" team, a "fiery" team, and they most certainly are not a hard-working team.
What the Rangers are is an inconsistent team, capable of playing good solid hockey one night, and awful, mistake-ridden hockey the next. Sometimes it is period to period, even shift to frustrating shift.
Mostly what Tortorella has done since taken over is contradict himself. He has benched players for losing their composure (Avery), all while playing the "do as I say, not as I throw" card when getting himself suspended during the playoffs for an altercation with Capitals fans, and tossing a water bottle at them.
He frequently loses his composure on the bench at his players and referees. He loses his composure off the ice as well, with Larry Brooks of the NY Post being his favorite target. Tortorella often talks about not crossing the line, but that line is drawn in invisible ink when it comes to himself.
Despite what we were told heading into this season, underachieving veterans are still being given premium ice time, and the chance to underperform night after night. We witnessed the "Enver Lesson", when the enigmatic young winger was dressed and benched for an entire game against Pittsburgh in November, we've seen Matt Gilroy shipped to Hartford to correct his game ("three games seems like enough, bring him back"), and Brandon Dubinsky has also spent time on the pine, but veterans don't pay the same price.
After the humiliating loss to the Islanders in December, Chris Drury was dropped to the fourth line for the next game. That lasted all of about three shifts. Michal Rozsival has also sat out a period here and there, and of course we all remember the two Wade Redden-less games where we all dreamed of a world where $6.5M anchors don't exist, and despite Ilkka Heikkinen and Bobby Sanguinetti doing nothing to warrant not playing, Redden was reinstalled in the lineup, where he has resumed playing lifeless, emotionless hockey. The "sense of entitlement" Tortorella complained about still seems to be alive and thriving on Broadway.
Tortorella has often talked about his team not being tough enough, not working hard enough and yet players who may be able to provide that type of play (Dane Byers) are left to languish in Hartford. The enforcer that was brought in (Donald Brashear) appears to have nothing left in the tank, except money, which he will collect plenty of from the Rangers until the end of the 2010-11 season, unless someone is crazy enough to pluck him off waivers.
Lines are constantly juggled, no chemistry is given any time to develop. Earlier this season, Artem Anisimov was installed on the first line with Marian Gaborik and Vinny Prospal. After two games, that experiment was scrapped as well. How is a young team supposed to develop this way?
You can make the argument that younger players such as Gilroy, Del Zotto, and Anisimov are getting playing time under Tortorella that they might not have gotten under the previous regime, but it seems that at the very least the young defensemen have regressed somewhat from the beginning of the season, which makes you wonder if this coaching staff is getting through to them.
Actually. When you look back at all the inconsistencies of the John Tortorella regime so far, perhaps this team has indeed taken on the personality of its coach.
So ask yourself, are the Rangers any better a "season" later?
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Interesting article
Nice job totally removing the handiwork of the GM from the equation. There is only one consistent part of the Rangers over the last decade, the tired old fool who serves as President, General Manager, and all around genius. Tortorella was given a mish-mosh of a roster to work with, but it’s his fault that he hasn’t turned the mess into a serious contender in 12 months. Got it.
Although good points were made by this article
I totally agree w/ Pemoco. Glen Sather has been the common denominator since 1999…….unfortunately. He has had now…over a full decade to build a contender here in NY and what?!!!! correct me if im wrong but a total of 2 playoff series wins. 10 years. 2 series wins. Numbers dont lie. How many coaches hired and fired? How much money wasted on free agent busts? Cap breaking busts! Im almost happy the Rangers have almost no cap space to play with cuz u know Slats will just throw it away on dead weight. Larry Brooks had a dead on article a couple of weeks ago. Rangers should be sellers at the trade deadline. This team is going NOWHERE!! A familiar position for the Rangers.
by giantsNYrangers on Feb 12, 2010 4:04 AM EST up reply actions
Pemoco, try getting the point of the article before you criticize it. You want to bitch about the roster, fine, but Torts had a big say in the players that were brought in, and already several of them are gone.
A “mish-mosh” roster is still no excuse for not working hard, or playing with passion.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Feb 12, 2010 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
pemoco
if you knew anything about Tortorella style of hockey (I mean do you?) you would realize that his boys play their asses off weather they are losing 5-0 or winning 1-0.
Have you seen that this year? Have you seen a team that cares? I haven’t and I’m betting you haven’t either (unless we arent watching the same team, which by the nature of your post seems possible) which falls on the coach not the General Manager. Sather has his own laundry list of faults, but Tortorella has to shoulder some of the blame.
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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 12, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Nice Article Jim...
I loved Tom Renney, I thought he was an amazing coach he took the Rangers out of the Dark Ages and brought about a Renaissance. With him, suddenly the team was making the playoffs and even advancing into the second round a couple times! That was a welcome change from the previous decade of early summers for the Rangers. I never understood the firing of Renney. Well, I should say I understood it but I didn’t AGREE with it. The Rangers were in a bad slump, not playing well and, worst in my opinion, not playing with heart. I was sad to see him go and I was thankful for what he had turned this once sad organization into: A playoff team. Would playoff contender have been nice? Of course, but I felt baby steps and patience are needed.
Now, after reading this article and seeing the numbers I am happy to know that I was right about losing Renney wouldn’t change anything. However, I’m sad that the Rangers are playing despicably. Major complaints about Renney, the only TWO complaints about Renney actually, were the line-shuffling and the lack of passion. Tortorella shuffles lines more than a deck of cards and his response to a stupid play is either rolling his eyes and shaking his head with that smirk of “What am I gonna do now?” on his face or he yells at the wrong person 85% of the time and benches a usually innocent player resulting in more work for the other players and thus an even weaker team. Players are almost always self-disciplining.
The Rangers are worse off now than they were a season ago. There is a myriad of more talent on this roster than there was on the roster last year. I would love to have Tom Renney back, I really would. Sather has to go, the man is a friggin’ dunce. The perpetual failure of this team to reach the Eastern Conference Finals over the past decade rests on his shoulders. It was a great article Jim, although painful to read due to the rage and pain it elicits. Let’s Go Rangers.
Let's Go Rangers!
Great article. Ranger fans are the best fans in the world, and deserve a better GM, coach and team. I’m tired of this mediocrity. Sell used parts, clear cap space, fire the GM and the coach. Strengthen the blue line first (Volchenkov) then find secondary scorers (Horton). Keep developing prospects. Reboot. This season has been slow death.
change dmy mind
After this article and thinking about all the key points you have pointed out, I agree 100 percent. I do think that after this season a coaching and off course a GM change is needed.
1-how can players have chemistry if they do not know game in and game out who their lines will be?. Example, I have been playing softball the last 3 years with the same team and players, I play second base and the shortstop and I over the course of time have developed a chemistry together in that time. Same with football, D-line and O-lines need time to gel together to build chemistry.
2- I do not undestand other than money, why the vets are not bench and sat out more games. If Redden would show some damn emotion he can be a tough d-man but he is making 6.5mil, why bother!!!
3-It has been proven in most sports for so long that high-paid veterans do not equal a quick champonship. Example in football, look how well the Washington Redskins do year in and year out.
Since the lockout, teams that were bad teams (Penguins, Capitals) used the draft and consistancy within their organzation to build their teams to be the top contenders for the Cup at this time.
The organzation has to make the adjustments after this season and stick with it and do it now while we have a all-world goaltender in net. Could you picture if the King was on Washington? The Capitals would have most likely lost 5 or 6 games this year.
Incidentally your reason number 1
was my biggest problem with Renney … crap
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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 12, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Are we better? No
What to do? TANK.
I’m fairly resigned to Sather staying. He’s not getting fired unless he wants to touch Anucha Brown Sanders too. Maybe he does resign at the end of the season?
But I don’t think there’s any way they can keep Torts. I don’t think its all him cuz he was dealt a pretty bad hand here, but I dunno how he can stay.
Bye, AP :(
Are we better??
I’m new to the boards but have been reading blueshirt banter for awhile. One thing that seems to elude everyone is that our Arrogant GM let the one player who helped bring the franchise out of the cellar go. Tom Renney did his thing, but Jariomir Jagr was the heart and sole of this franchise for those couple of years. He enjoyed playing in NY and for a superstar like him he wasn’t asking for much to stay. Can you imagine if Jagr was still here these last couple of years? How about now with Gaborik? When a player of his caliber just loves coming to work and showing the youngters what to do on and off the ice, it rubs off on people. He was happy to be here and he showed pride in Ranger blue. We don’t have that anymore and we don’t have Jagr anymore, just because our GM couldn’t call him up and make an offer to stay. We are doomed as long as Dolan allows this cigar smoking pompas ass to run our club.
While there’s a lot of truth to what you say – there’s little regard for certain realities of the post-CBA NHL world. Don’t get me wrong – I thought the Rangers should have tried to keep Jaromir.
But the realities played out differently. That Rangers team was not all that different from the current one. For scoring, they had Jagr and……… oh yeah. Secondary scoring was a problem.
Then you’ve got the fact that he did not mesh with 2 highly paid FAs (Drury and Gomez) – one of whom has a full no movement clause that will be an albatross to this franchise for a long time to come.
To top it off, Jagr’s ego required that he be the highest paid player on the team. Not by a little bit – by a whole lot. Now, there were various rumors going around that he wanted “around $10mm for a 2 year contract” – and that’s believed to be what he got from Avangard in the KHL.
If the Rangers had given him $10mm, they would have had something like $43mm of cap tied up in only 6 players!
While you could make a VERY convincing argument that they would have been a whole lot better off giving 10mm to Jagr and NOT SIGNING WADE REDDEN or Dmitri Kalinin the point is that they still would have had way too much tied up in too few players – and 2 of those players already had proven to not work effectively with Jagr.
The mistake was made the prior year – signing Drury and Gomez.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
Oh man 14 million dollars that could hve gone to the Sedin twins or maybe even
Kovalchuk next year. Oh well
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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 12, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Obviously not.
However, there is a lot more depth to this team’s problems than just the head coach.
I think part of the problem starts with the ownership, to the GM, then to the coach. We all know the coach makes the decisions on benching players, who to sit/bring up, but I think a LOT of that process is highly influenced by Sather, and through Sather, Dolan as well. Now we all know Dolan obviously knows jack-shit about hockey, but I’m sure he tells Sather “we have this guy making 6+mil, I want him playing blah-blah-blah”.
I think the influence of Slats and Dolan is obvious considering this team hasn’t changed in many years. It’s always been lackluster effort against anybody but NJ/NYI/Bos, piss-poor defense, and relying on 1-2 top forwards for goal scoring, and hoping our goaltender pulls saves out of his posterior. And this is with all sorts of coaches-we’ve had Mr. Magoo in Trottier, the pacifist in Tom Renney, and Captain Blood in Tortorella. Yet the team hasn’t changed. Why?
Coaches are always the same people, with the same system, and same approach to everything. I don’t think you’d ever get Renney to coach an high-octane offensive system, or Torts to have his teams use the trap etc. So what do the good teams do? Two things: they bring in coaches who coach and practice systems that fit their team (think Lemaire with NJ, low-scoring defensive team with a top goalie (Rosie O’Donnell LOL)), and bring in players that fit their coach/system. The Rangers haven’t done that in a long time.
Now, for Torts, he needs to go IMO. The line-juggling, which is totally him, is ridiculous. When they finally find a group that works, he breaks them up (like taking EC away from Gabby when they were scoring together). I said this in an earlier thread. He’ll lambaste a rookie, or new guy for 1 mistake, bench them, yet other players (usually the $$$ players) get a free pass when they make multiple mistakes on one damn shift. Our younger core isn’t going to develop under Torts. And they’ll never learn responsibility or commitment when somebody like MDZ or Gilroy is paired with LAZY MOTH@#$_)*($% REDDEN.
by Caerid112 on Feb 12, 2010 10:00 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
So after a coaching change and a complete revamp of the team…a few times. We are still in the same place we were for the past few years. I honestly think that you could insert any coach into this position and they would fail. We all know who to blame. Pointing fingers at Torts isn’t going to solve anything. Tom Renney and Torts are the ones that are going to take the fall for the commander of this sinking ship. Someone should get the picture and replace him. However, the powers that be only seem to want to put butts in the seats and have sell out nights. They give us just enough to make us complacent. "Here… Gaborik… he’ll draw some people and fool them into thinking we could actually win something here muuuwhahahaha!" And can you blame them? When you have a terrible product and people still buy it why change? The old adage, "If it ain’t broke don’t fix it" comes to mind. They don’t have a winning formula for getting the cup but, they do have a winning formula for getting us all to buy their merchandise and tickets to the game. I don’t want to sound all gloom and doom but I really am struggling to stay positive about this organization. The only way I get any solace is to take a step back and look at the long term. The Rangers have hopefully finally drafted some decent players. We are actually building from within as the Red Wings have done for decades. (I have first hand knowledge of this from going to Adirondack Red Wings games and seeing players brought up to the big team and winning cups) The Rangers will never be able to pull of what teams such as Pitts, Chicago, and San Jose have done… because the Rangers have been bad but have they ever been bad enough for the entire fan base to turn its back on the team? So in closing I’d like to say Torts has screwed up quite a few times. He’s not completely with out fault. Really who we have to blame is ourselves as we all sit here and are content with this garbage that’s put before us. If we really want change we need to do something about it. I know I’m not going to any more games with this squad. That’s what I’m doing. Not as if there will be many more. It hurts…it really does… Wait are we talking about the Rangers…oh…whoops…got onto some social commentary it looks like. Entertainment, The Pacifier of Societal Unrest.
Nothing says powerplay like strobe lights and video game music.
We may actully be in worse shape
regardless, at least this time we have nice prospects in the wings.
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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 12, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Do you really think we are in worse shape? I see it as a plateau.
Nothing says powerplay like strobe lights and video game music.
by fromthe51hate on Feb 12, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
what the rangers need is consistency...
It all starts with a plan. I know torts wants an offensively, hard working team and when torts came to the team last year he was given a team fully built for defense. So during the off-season torts was forced to put together a team with random parts. There was no way he was gonna come up with a stanley cup team in one off-season. Now the rangers have young core players with staal, dubi, callahan, and girardi, however these players need time to get used to the new system but its gonna take more than 2/3 of a year. So what I’d like to see is torts stay with the rangers for at least 2 more years and establish his system and his players. With that said the rangers need to keep their core guys as well, because these complete overhauls are just ridiculous from year to year. The team will never grow as a team if there are completely different players there from year to year
Chemistry
The chemestry agrument leads to keeping a core together and letting them develop. This would mean not acquiring “pieces for a play-off run.” While trading Cally or Dubi or whoever might make short term sense (if by short term sense you mean getting to the play-offs) I think its better to continue to let them play together. In the “good ol’ days” , you knew who were going to be Rangers the following year and so did the team.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Feb 12, 2010 10:53 AM EST reply actions
What a great screenname!!
It mad me laugh………………and unfortunately it made me wanna cry too!
by giantsNYrangers on Feb 12, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
i think reading this article and all of the comments there seems to be one overarching theme
and that is…u guessed it…consistency…the actual aspect that makes a team a team…this is a bunch of guys wearing the same colored sweater and being paid millions to stand around on a sheet of ice while they waste world class goaltending…i think i noe about 18200 people who would gladly sign up for that job…while it is nice to see one big time signing actually work out in Gabby this team needs a core to develop around and that core isnt the rangers dwindling salary cap it consists of gabby, callahan, staal, dubinsky, henrik, to a certain extent anisimov, del zotto, and gilroy…a good GM and coach would see these players as the foundation of this team and put together lines that keep these players together for more than THREE SHIFTS…gabby prospal and ec have worked so keep them together for more than three games and i liked the recent paring of dubi and cally on the second line with ollie…maybe that a combination we should keep since they are the future leaders of this team…but that’s too good of an idea for our coaching staff
2009/10 replacements (2008/09 players departed/replaced)
Gaborik (Naslund)
Higgins/Jokinen (Gomez)
Prospal (Zherdev)
Kotalik/Prust (Antropov)
Lisin (Korpikowski)
Boyle (Betts)
Brashear (Orr)
Anisimov (Sjostrom)
*deliberately omitted from this list are:
Kotalik/Prust paired against Nik Antropov last year – basically a wash (Kotalik 8 G in 45 games, Antropov 7 G in 13 games. Hmmm…)
Brashear paired against Orr – they aren’t producers anyway and we’ve already argued them based on their strengths
When you look at that – is the skill level of the team better – or worse?
Now – it’s way too time consuming to do a direct 60 game comparison – but for the hell of it, let’s compare Goals/Assists for the 60 games on the left side to a full 82 games on the right side.
73 G – 95 A (in 60 games) – to – 67 G – 103 A (in 82 games)
Hmm. Ok – there’s a bunch more goals in fewer games, and a couple fewer assists. Not a surprise, right? Gaborik is near the top of the league in G – something we haven’t seen in years. More production from one player. But, if he’s added so much offense, how come there are a LOT more G/A on the left side ??
There are 2 telling statistics, they’re related to each other and the above.
Goals For/Goals Against 09/10 – projected to 82 games * -(GF/GA 08/09)
151 / 162 – *206 / 221 – (200 / 212 )
So, essentially – the Rangers are on pace to score 6 more goals than last season, but give up 9 more. Probably not a huge surprise given the player comparison above, right?
Drum roll – please. Here’s the clincher.
Drury 09/10 (Drury 08/09)
9G / 11A ( 22 G – 34 A)
I won’t even comment – Jim can take a stab at that one – figuratively or literally.
Another stinker would be comparing Higgins/Jokinen to Gomez. Yes, it’s unfair on several levels – but the point is that Higgins was expected to put up at least 17-22 G and 15-20 A. There was no reason to think he wouldn’t.
So – go ahead and blame the coach, if you want. When 2 players each massively underproduce on a truly EPIC level, I’ll pass on getting on that bandwagon.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
Great post!
Those numbers tell quite a story. Certainly we have 2 players that you could place some blame on. We also have some young player who’s we thought would start to break out this year and have not. I am certain many of our players would be much more productive in another organization.
Slather is to blame for our problems. I don’t think Torts has done anything to improve the situation. I’m sure Sather has some string he pulls that keep Torts from reaching his potential, but the trueth is we should be getting more out of this team.
As a long time Rangers fan I’m used to the losing, but I’ll never get used to lazy, unmotivated and underachieving players. I like Renney, but in the end the players seemed to be loosing thier motivation. I didn’t think we’d see that with Torts. We saw all the same problems and some new ones. I was one of the people happy to see Torts and now I’d be happier to see him go.
by CTrangerfan on Feb 12, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Sather's Folly
The Rangers are in a deep hole and will remain so until they can unload the toxic contracts that Glen Sather agreed to. Redden, Roszival and Drury are killing the team, pure and simple. Their performance on the ice is in no way commensurate with the size of their contracts. I doubt that any other team would want to assume those contracts. If we are forced to wait until those contracts expire, the Rangers will lack the cap space to acquire skilled free agents. Two other players are also grossly overpaid for their subpar performances, but Sather is not the villain in their cases. Avery is not contributing much to the team, but at least Dallas is paying half his salary. Jokinen will probably not be resigned unless he is willing to accept a much lower contract. Players such as Boyle, Brashear, Christensen, Girardi, Prust and Voros are ballast on the Rangers’ sinking ship. They cost relatively little and deliver very little. Gaborik and Lundqvist are elite players with which to build a franchise. Dubi, Callie and Vinnie are the secondary scoring. Each contributes, but their contributions are insufficient to make the Rangers a good team. I like Vinnie, but it probably makes sense to trade him for younger prospects. To me it makes no sense to trade Dubi or Callie unless one or more of Drury, Rozsival, Redden, or Avery are part of the package. The Rangers must get creative to solve the problem of the toxic contracts. If they cannot be traded, send them to Hartford, put them on waivers or have a goombah from New Jersey whack them. Hopefully, we can find a group of young, talented and motivated players to join the youngsters already on the roster or serving their time in Hartford. In addition, Sather must go and go quickly. Tortorella does not deserve as much of the blame as Sather, but he has done very little to utilize the talent that the Rangers do have. He is a marginal coach, while Sather is the most incompetent GM in the NHL.
"....while Sather is the most incompetent GM in the NHL."
Only because Milbury isn’t a GM anymore… what is it with NY and crappy GMs? :|
Great article Jim & I agree with Joe
I think we a worse off this season then last, But at least we have some “young blood” in the line up and in the wings waiting. I also agree that as much as I liked Renney for getting the NYR out of the Black hole the seemed to live in for a decade, I hated the fact that the lines changed so much…That being said I hate the fact Torts does it every other shift even more, the Renney’s every other game.
I also agree with HeartOfARanger I think there is plenty of talent on this team, and in Hartford, we only need a coach that can figure out a way to “harness” it, while at the same time will squash the “sense of entitlement” in NY for more then 2 games.
As I am writing this I am starting to wonder if it was Renney that really got us out of the “dark ages” or if it was Hendrik ????
Drury
Captain Chris has morphed into Blair Betts. He kills penalties, he blocks shots, he takes faceoffs. He scores or assists as seldom as possible. What a leader.
Hyperbole aside
Drury – 20 points in 55 games (bad, I know, but c’mon)
Betts career high – 13 points in a season.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 12, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
End the Sather Era
Play the kids…
Blueshirt Banter - End the Sather Era
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Red Sox Fan behind Enemy lines.
On a roster where you’ve already got
Anisimov
Callahan
Dubinsky
Lisin
DelZotto
Staal
Prust
Gilroy
Girardi
Boyle
all at, or under, the age of 25.
What kids?
Or are you saying that Lisin/Prust/Boyle/Anisimov/Gilroy should get 15-20min of ice-time each game?
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
yeah DB I will agree that for all of Sather's faults
and there are many of them, playing the kids isn’t that big of an issue.
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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 12, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Except for Anisimov and Lisin of course.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 12, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if we're no better because of the new rules
The post lock-out rules were designed to open up the offense. The NBA went this way and now if you don’t have the best player, you don’t win. There are no real “teams” in the NBA because defending Lebron, Shaq, or Kobi or whoever, is impossible. Same may now be true in the NHL.
I watched the 60 minute version of the “Guarantee Game” last night. What was striking was all of the uncalled interference, hooking, holding, grabbing, etc. If the post lock-our rules were in effect (with 2 refs) that game would have been played 3-on-3. All of the post lock-out infractions did not lead to a boring game or a game that lacked offensive chances. If a defenseman cleared the crease the way it done in 1994 (or earlier), two minutes in the box. I think the trap killed offense, not the post-lockout infractions.
Freeing up offensive players allows players like Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Backstrom, etc. to roam free. Imagine Gretsky, Messier, Lemeuix, the young Jagr, etc., playing under these rules. The result is that the team is less important because these guys are virtually unstoppable for a whole game. Thus, the Caps can routinely give up 5 goals a game and have a 13 game winning streak. Unless we get a player(s) at this level, it will be difficult to advance very far in the play-offs. [Not to say Gaborik is not this type of player but he’s more of a shooter and doesn’t dominate games the way Ovechkin does.]
Just a thought.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Feb 12, 2010 11:51 AM EST reply actions
Which is why adding a Hall/Seguin type should be the goal of this franchise, not clinging to almost non-existant playoff hopes.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 12, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Thats why we should sell.............
(Almost everything) must go!
by giantsNYrangers on Feb 13, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
I have to say
I love that an article which is basically “Hey, Torts hasn’t really done anything” has led to consistent Sather bashing. Interesting stuff.
Anyhow, this roster isn’t nearly as bad as it has performed. As db begins to mention, the replacements from last year’s roster are slightly better. But just look at the roster based on expectations:
Some guys were complete busts (Higgins)
Some guys were partial busts (Kotalik – he started strong at least)
Some have massively declined (Drury, Redden)
Some guys just are (Avery, Girardi)
Some didn’t take the next step (Dubi, Cally)
Some are underperforming rookies (Anisimov, Gilroy)
Some haven’t been given a fair chance (Anisimov, Lisin, EC, Sanguinetti, Heikkenen, Byers……)
Some guys have been as good or better than advertised (Gaborik, Staal)
The first half can certainly be blamed on Sather, but the latter half? That’s coaching, and that means Tortorella.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
At what point on your list, in your opinion, does “blame the coach” start.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
Well…Higgins there’s nothing Torts could’ve done. He gave the guy every opportunity and he just failed. Kotalik to the same extent…he just kinda of collapsed despite opportunity.
Drury – I think Torts had a hand in it by inexplicably giving Drury no PP time at the start of the year. Now, I think Drury’s lost a bit anyway and even with PP time now he hasn’t picked it up, so I wouldn’t completely pin it on Torts.
Redden – All Sather.
So I’d say from Avery down is Tortorella’s fault (even Staal, who struggled until they stopped pushing him to push the offense)
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Feb 12, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough.
With all due respect –
Avery – probably too tight a leash – that’s Tort’s fault – I’ll agree.
Girardi – is symptomatic of the general issues of the defense – and that’s mostly Sather.
I mean, what do you do? Put Staal/Girardi together, and leave the rooks with R+R ?
Tough spot for a coach – and IMO a no-win situation.
I don’t agree on Dubi/Cally – they’re probably going to exceed last year’s #s. Misplaced expectations (Dubi = 1st line center numbers with Gaborik) are not the coach’s fault.
Anisimov is getting more ice time since December. He gets screwed when we take or get lots of penalties ‘cause he isn’t on the specialty teams. In normal games – he’s getting 14 or more min./game.
Gilroy is not underperforming for a defenseman. He’s been responsible and solid positioning-wise and since the 3 day tutoring session in HFD is more decisive about closing.
Lisin – could be that he’s just never going to get it – but I won’t argue on it – could be the coach.
Christensen seems to be getting his chance – and isn’t doing badly. But he’s not a 1st line center and he’s not really a scorer.
As for the HFD guys – until something is done (Sather) with the R+R twins, talking about AHL defensemen is a waste of time, and absolutely not the coaches fault. The cap prevents these guys from getting NHL time.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
Point-Counterpoint continued
Girardi’s had a down year and never adjusted. Using him to “protect” MDZ defensively is among the bad ideas Torts has had. I blame Torts in that Girardi has clearly had a down year and never had a defined role.
Dubi/Cally – yeah they’re going to exceed numbers but only barely, and the consistency isn’t there. To that extent, it’s Torts fault.
Gilroy is underperforming in my eyes. He’s been much better defensively than anyone thought, that is true, but he’s shown little to no offensive game, which is the book on him. I think he’d really be better served as a winger. I won’t argue this one much because I can certainly see how he would be seen as productive.
AA should be getting special teams time also…which is part of the problem. He’s been decent as a 5th-6th PK guy, and he’s got the size to cause issues in front on PP2. He should be getting 17-18 a night.
Lisin’s an offensive player on a team looking for offense. To me, not utilizing him to try to spark the offense, even if it sacrifices a bunch of defense, is a coaching mistake.
EC – This was more earlier in the season. Again, he’s an offensive player and the coaching staff was burying him while we’re looking for offense.
Clearly we could free Tortorella from any blame with the proper arguments…but at at the same time I think he deserves a fair amount of blame, with player development being the biggest problem, via musical chairs and/or ice time limitations.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Feb 12, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Differing perspectives, that’s all.
There are some moves Torts could have made differently, or that a different coach would have done differently.
With the roster potential he was given and chose from, there aren’t too many more player development opportunities he could have availed himself of – while still marching to the tune of “we will make the playoffs” being played from on high.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
Well yes, the biggest problem is organizational motivation. It hamstrings alot of things, from player development all the way through these inane FA signings.
That’s not even Sather, that’s Dolan.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Feb 12, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
john torts
i think renney was to soft and torts is too tough if he could keep it down a notch he would be ok!!!
not too heavy not too lite is what the rangers coaching sytem needs!!
but we cant blame him for lackluster effortless games which torts hates!! like redden rosival, brahear higgens and kotalik provided!!! but he must not get mad and lose his cool just try to fill those holes and call up younger guys which he hasnt done and play johnson more.. i dont know why he wouldnt play tonight against pittsburgh.. he should play more too..he has the right idea unforntunatkey we are stuck with bad contracts that the genera manger left us with.. ithink we should give him more time.. at least 1 to two more years.. however if he could relax and this team can rebuild slowly and have patience. then they will be fine..otherwise a less tenacious coach is need .. i wish we could get a jacques lemaire, type or a pittsburgh coach.. why do the devils always get good coaches??? bring keenan back if torts cant get it done.. i see change but the dont play good defense to create offensive chances.. they all stand around in the defensive zone.. THEY CHASE THE SAME GUY WITH THE PUCK OR TAKE STUPID PENATLIES AND LOSE MANY GAMES BY ONE GOAL!! SCORING IS STILL ALSO A PROBLEM.. NO CONSTITANCEY AND THOSE GOES BACK YEARS NOT TORTS FAULT EITHER! BUT THEY NEED TO LOOK AT MOVING SOME OF THEIR OFFENSIVE PLAYERS.. I LOVE THE MOVE THEY MADE FOR JOKINEN AND PRUST. GREAT MOVE. WE NEED MORE BETTER ONES OR DRAFT PICKS HIGH END FIRST ROUND SO WE CAN GET A QUALITY SCORING WINGER OUT OF THE DRAFT..
At least MSG spends the money....
While watching this season has been akin to root canal with no anesthesia one thing should be noted- The Rangers organization at least spends its money. Living in Chicago for the last 20 years made me appreciate this point. Old man Wirtz let the Blackhawks devolve into such a joke that they lost their season ticket base. They made great draft choices and Rocky Wirtz (the son) took over and hired top mangement & organizational talent to grow the team.
I’m not sure whats worse- spending all this money and having a mediocre team or not spending any money and having a terrible team?
The point being- until the ticket holders stop buying tickets, the GM will stay put.
by RangerFanInChicago on Feb 12, 2010 1:35 PM EST reply actions
OK so at least MSG spends the money.......right?
Only they throw it away on FA busts that dont produce. I mean over 7 mill for Drury?!!!! over 6.5 for Redden? was there a HUGE bidding war for Redden when Slats signed him? NO!!!! What the hell wasSather thinking? The whole league must of been laughing at the Rangers. And I would rather suck than be mediocre. At least you get lottery picks and eventually become a powerhouse like Chicago and the Penguins. Only that wouldnt happen with Sather driving the bus………….im sure of it.
by giantsNYrangers on Feb 13, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Nice article jim...
I like it. You make some good points. And in my opinion they are far worst than that what they were last year. I think last year we had better talent or at least more heart and emotion. Orr and Betts played and hard and got the ice time because of it. They leave and we bring in who? Donald F%$&#*! Brashear. Yeah, that’s our answer to an enforcer. I’ll admit when he signed I thought it would be good only for the fact he could have cleared some bodies in front of the net, but they don’t even use him for that. Let alone use him at all. But that’s his own fault.
I got a trade for ya guys, tell me what you think…
To San Jose-Chris Drury and 12 pack of Bud Light
To NYR-A game worn autographed jersey of Patrick Marleau
then…
To Philly-Michal Rozsival and a letter of apology to the city of Philadelphia
To NYR- Vouchers for 1 FREE Whole Philly Cheese Steaks at Ginos for the whole NYR organization(Trust me, that’s a good trade.
To top it all off you take Wade Redden and dump him in a hole out in the desert in Las Vegas beaten like Joe Pesci in “Casino.” You also give Las Vegas a letter of apology since Redden will cause more damage to soil than the nuclear explosions that took place years ago.
After it’s all said and done you’ll have almost $20mil to mess with and build a better team. Maybe they could go for Kovalchuk if he still doesn’t want over $11mill.
Jagr
My only other comment about Jagr is he was like a kid in the candy store. How often do you bring in a player (elite player no less) who enjoys it so much and hanging around with the kids just having fun? I know that doesn’t make a team and the whole Jagr thing is over, but it just points out how Sather is in no way in touch with this team. Jagr’s smile and all around good attitude rubbed off on other players and they all worked hard. That is the biggest point. Drury (for what ever reason) has declined in his level of play, and he seems like he is so overwhelmed with how bad things are here in NY. So maybe just maybe if Jagr was still here people like Redden would be playing much harder because their Capt. is leading the way. I know it’s all her say and you will never know the true answer. But my point being that Jagr had influence on everyone around him. He played hard was fun to be around, and loved teaching the kids. In turn the team played hard for him and Renney. Sather did not see this aspect and let him go, and now we search for a team identity and somone to help us find that identity. Just like Jagr, Messier, and so many other great captains in the NHL.
i agree, and i keep posting about how much i miss jagr. Sure you can make the argument that hes egotistical but if you were arguably the best European player of all time, wouldn’t you be? The team under Renney was very 1-dimensional. Get the puck to jagr and just support him. It worked for a while but eventually teams knew jagr was the only threat and wised up. Having a supporting cast that included gomez, drury, and shanny wasn’t something i’d like either. If Jagr had more of a stable, uptempo cast and system around him we would’ve been late playoff contenders
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New York Rangers
|
52 | 34 | 13 | 5 | 73 |
|
Philadelphia
|
54 | 31 | 16 | 7 | 69 |
|
New Jersey
|
54 | 31 | 19 | 4 | 66 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
54 | 30 | 19 | 5 | 65 |
|
New York Islanders
|
53 | 22 | 23 | 8 | 52 |
(updated 2.11.2012 at 8:02 AM EST)
Rangers Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
Washington
|
Sun 02/12 | 3:00 PM EST |
|
@
Boston
|
Tue 02/14 | 7:00 PM EST |
|
Chicago
|
Thu 02/16 | 7:00 PM EST |
|
Columbus
|
Sun 02/19 | 8:00 PM EST |
|
@
Pittsburgh
|
Tue 02/21 | 7:00 PM EST |
Last 5 Games
|
@
Philadelphia
|
Sat 02/11 | W 5 - 2 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
Thu 02/09 | OT - W 4 - 3 |
|
New Jersey
|
Tue 02/07 | L 0 - 1 |
|
Philadelphia
|
Sun 02/05 | W 5 - 2 |
|
@
Buffalo
|
Wed 02/01 | SO - W 1 - 0 |
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