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Official Reaction: Jokinen/Prust for Higgins/Kotalik

            Well, I've been missing for a while around here with just a busy and unfair schedule, but at the moment I'm the one sitting around soaking in all these trade-winds with nothing to do; so I get the first jab at writing a reaction to this trade. Now if you've read me before on the site you know that I'm not the biggest Sather fan, but somehow he has once again convinced a fellow GM to take overpaid players who are underachieving in return for low-risk high-reward assets. Glen, you never cease to amaze me.

            One of my favorite sites is The Score and their NHL Watch section is a must especially for fantasy. One of their hockey blogs, Hockey or Die by Jonathan Willis, is easily my number 2 checked site behind the home base here. Today he took an in-depth look a Jokinen to see what has been going on with his play since the trade to Calgary awhile back. Some of the highlights:

Star-divide

"There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that the Southeast division inflates player statistics, and when I looked into it last month I found that the best players in the division all saw their offence drop off substantially outside of it.  Of course, there's also my post this morning, showing that on average, last year Southeast Division players managed about 14.0% less offence when playing outside of their own division."

            Mr. Willis has done some great research into the Southeastern division recently using some advanced statistics around the NHL. He even explained why Jay Boumeester has been having a "down" year after hopping to Calgary from Florida. The point is that since leaving Florida where Jokinen hovered around the one point per-game average, his overall scoring has dropped to around an average of .75 per game. Not an alarming drop, but enough to raise interest for a guy who gets paid $ 5.5 Million to score goals.

"We see a sharp decrease after Jokinen left the Southeast Division, but he's still averaging in the neighborhood of three shots per game. The sharp decrease is his shooting percentage, which has dropped from better than 10.0% to less than 7.0%. To put that drop in perspective, if Jokinen were averaging the same shooting percentage that he had last season, he'd already have 20 goals.

Any number of factors could be impacting Jokinen's shooting percentage, but it's unlikely to be a permanent decline; many players see their shooting percentage dip or spike for unknown reasons, but in the vast majority of cases they return to their career levels. For that reason, I'd say that Jokinen is a very good bet to return to the 25-30 goal range wherever he plays next season."

            A well-argued explanation. Willis puts my short-term thoughts on the trade better than I could have explained it:

"I think the Rangers got him for a lot less than his full value, and assuming he doesn't suddenly break out another team might be able to pick him up at a discount this summer when he hits free agency."

            As much as most think the Rangers won this deal outright, I'm a little on the fence. Chris Higgins and Ales Kotalik are still good players who can produce for an NHL team, but for some reason could not find their footing in New York. God bless Darryl Sutter, who I only wish the best with Higgins and Kotalik because I can't really see Jokinen producing worse than those two had been. Meanwhile, Brandon Prust is an energy player who will add some needed toughness to the lineup, but in the end will not solve some of our goal-scoring needs. I'd rather see him in the lineup than Brashear, though. Finally, Jokinen is a good short-term fix. No one knows right now the odds of him re-signing with the Rangers, but the knee-jerk reaction will be that he probably will walk. If I had my way I would put Jokinen as the second-line center and hope he can find some chemistry with a pair of wingers (I would like to see him with Avery). He is more of a natural goal-scorer than a playmaker, and I think putting him with Gaborik would in the end be a mistake (both like to shoot a lot - Jokinen's corsi rating will be tops with the Rangers if he starts producing a little more)

            The part of this deal that angers me is the typical Glen Sather focus on the here and now. Granted, Jokinen should provide a scoring boost that was lacking with Kotalik (can't score from the press box) and Higgins that should in turn help us make the playoffs. But, how many Ranger fans want another first or second round exit? At some point, commitments need to be made to the three to five year future where the Rangers can become Eastern Conference and Stanley Cup Contenders. Personally, I would rather have seen Sather trade those two players for a first or a second rounder, but I guess that's why I'm a fan ranting on a laptop and not taking calls in an office at Madison Square Garden.

            In the end, this is a deal that has brought some good light onto the season and frees up cap space. I do not think Sather is done, and neither are the Calgary Flames (tons of Kovalchuk rumors today). Either way, I'll be glued to the TV tonight as usual when the Rangers visit the Kings watching our new boys closely.

Small Note: Jokinen will be #12 while Prust will be wearing #8 according to the roster on the Rangers site.

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Just a heads up, I think you meant “Glen, you never cease to amaze me.” I hear that phrase misused a lot for some reason.

by XLII on Feb 2, 2010 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

Good Catch

I’m rusty in the literature department currently.

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by Rob L on Feb 2, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The Score wrote “The New Rangers made a trade to bolster their struggling offense”. Do they even realize why the deal was made?

"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen

by rmc235 on Feb 2, 2010 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

What's wrong with that?

That is why the trade was made, at least in some respects.

Yes, the long term effects were that they shed Kotalik’s contract and cleared needed cap space going forward, but this was still a move to attempt to jump start the offense short term.

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by George E. Ays on Feb 2, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

To make the trade sound this way is wrong. The Flames were scouting us. If anything, I think the Flames made the move, and Sather negotiated to our advantage.

"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen

by rmc235 on Feb 2, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Problem with that theory is that if the rumors were true, Gilroy was initially part of the deal and Calgary requested Higgins instead, which would argue that Calgary was the one negotiating.

Also, since the Flames were scouting us, that presumably means that Sather had potentially targeted Jokinen (well, probably Phaneuf first), and that the Flames were scouting us to see if a deal could be made.

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by George E. Ays on Feb 2, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Not necesarily the case, perhaps the Flames wanted Gilroy and Sather nixed that and threw in Higgins. This works no matter how you slice it……we got rid of two guys who
1- were obviously not going to work out long term for us
2- salary dump on kotalik which is huge
3- I think Ollie is a bonafide center which we lack
4-If the guy can score 10 goals the rest of the season, its a win with very little given up and maybe he resigns on the cheap. He’s 31…….not 36 and washed up.
5-We bring in an enforcer with heart, possibly the best aspect of this deal is Prust.

by earthworm on Feb 2, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

But, how many Ranger fans want another first or second round exit? At some point, commitments need to be made to the three to five year future where the Rangers can become Eastern Conference and Stanley Cup Contenders. Personally, I would rather have seen Sather trade those two players for a first or a second rounder, but I guess that’s why I’m a fan ranting on a laptop and not taking calls in an office at Madison Square Garden.

My first reaction yesterday was the depressed realization that picks were not coming this way. I thought it was possible picks could have been involved, but not now, not in a trade to the Flames, and not in our current position. Kotalik’s contract is very bloated, and it’s great to get that weight off our “cap shoulders”. Plus, at that price, no way was a pick coming this way. Higgins however, might have attracted a 3rd rounder, but it’s hard to tell because of his play. Both players for a 1st or 2nd rounder I don’t see possible.

While we didn’t receive picks, we did receive a lot in return for them, more than I could have hoped for. It’s amazing how someone out there was willing to take on Kotalik’s contract, and the fact we don’t take on contracts just adds to the pleasure of seeing this trade go down.

"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen

by rmc235 on Feb 2, 2010 12:58 PM EST reply actions  

I forgot to add the point about the playoffs. I think this deal does have the “rebuilding qualities”. I want to see the Rangers make the playoffs every year, and once they are there, anything can happen. Edmonton made it to the finals as the 8th seed a couple years back. Making the playoffs, while helping out the contractual obligations in the future is a win-win. This deal does just that in my opinion. I think the Rangers make the playoffs. What they do there is beyond us.

"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen

by rmc235 on Feb 2, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong

Once a team is in the playoffs ANYTHING can happen. I just feel that this roster and organization is so on the fringe of being a contender that the players have to play very well in order to succeed in the playoffs.

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by Rob L on Feb 2, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

i have to disagree that making the playoffs and shedding futures contracts is a win-win for us. shedding the future deals depending on what else glen does with it is a win right now for us. Making the playoffs in 8th and getting bounced 1st round to end up w the 16th pick in the draft instead of a possible top 5 is not a win for us long term because we are decreasing the potential talent level we could be adding to this system in terms of a real difference maker to end this fight for 8th every year cycle.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Progressive Thinking

I like it, mleetch.

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by Rob L on Feb 2, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

but this trade might help the Rangers start to gel a little and maybe make it past the second round. Say what you want about getting knocked out of the playoffs early the the experience is invaluble for guys like Staal, DZ, Girardi, Anisimove Callahan and Dubisnky

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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 2, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The only one that hasn’t had the “experience” is MDZ. Anisimov was called up for one or two of the debacles against the CAPS last spring. Granted, that’s not a lot of experience – but it did occur.

Oh – and technically – you forgot Brandon Prust – who’s never played in an NHL playoff game. (Olli is an about the same shoes as Anisimov – his only playoff experience in the NHL was last year with the Flames).

Of course, we all know that Sather isn’t done with the Mind Tricks – there will be more moves. And we will make the playoffs. And despite the inane “guarantees” from Fischler, we will get trounced-n-bounced in Round 1.

Given the opportunity – I’ll pass. I’d pass on making any more moves – unless someone comes a-knockin’ for Redden, Rozsival, Brashear, Voros, or (gasp!!) Drury. (Hey – maybe he’d waive the NMC!!!). If they’re a-knockin’ – they’d better have a bagful o’ picks – and expiring contracts. Don’t offer me salary or washed up ex-superstars. Uh-uh. No. Draft lottery here I come.

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by dbmaven on Feb 2, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

No one’s taking them….they’re the worst.

by blueshirts1623 on Feb 2, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Redden no...

I have faith someone will take Rozsival. May not be til the offseason though.

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by George E. Ays on Feb 2, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

i just put up a fanpost based on ur creating hope for me. lol.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree someone might take Rozsival

especially since on a normal team his cap hit isn’t too bad and sometimes he can play hockey

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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 2, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, Flames fan here.
Has Sather done a press conference yet?
Sutter hasn’t yet.

by Rod Blogojevich on Feb 2, 2010 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

BTW, Joker will be good with Gaborik, in my opinion. Olli isnt the most creative player, he just has a good shot. A poor man’s Iginla, basically. Which is why he never gelled with Jarome- it always seemed like the two were awkward and hesitant on what their roles on their line should be. With a wizard like Gaborik to distrubute the puck, then tossing in someone like Avery, Dubinsky or whoever to bring some physicality and a forecheck, or even Prospal to just feed Olli and Marion, I think this will be a good trade for you. Very good. We’ll see. I was always frustrated with Jokinen but I have a soft spot in my heart after yesterday’s debacle, Sutter treated him VERY badly.

by Rod Blogojevich on Feb 2, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Sather has not done a press confrence yet

regardless I have to be honest I have no idea what Sutter was thinking. I can’t see how Kotalik attracted him (and even if he is trying to pawn him off for Kovalchuck—which has been the rumor) I can’t see Atlanta having any use for him either. Just a weird trade by the Flames but thanks for taking him off our hands :-) He is your problem now

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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 2, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

more 'Matchsticks' banter

From the latests Matchstick’s and Gasoline posts; the hot topic seems to be what they can do to get rid of Kotalik. Some of the better trade proposals:

Kotalik is terrible. His contract is terrible. If Sutter doesn’t flip him for something else (be it another player or basket of fruit) it’s an absolutely brutal acquisition.
I would take a damaged puck for Kotalik.
Matchsticks and Gasoline

Sorry Calgary…he’s your problem now! I think I echo Glen Sather when I let out a long, “muahahahahahaha”

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

Ha! Glad you liked those ones.

Have to laugh not to cry, right?

by Kent Wilson on Feb 2, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

thats our motto here

but to be honest I feel for you guys. Joks is done at the end of the year. Why take a headcase like Kotalik for 2 more at 3 per?

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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 2, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha Ha

I’ve seen that before – Classic

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by Rob L on Feb 2, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I had to bite my tongue when I read that in the library the other day while on the site. Hilarious.

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by Rob L on Feb 2, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Olli did quite well at the Flames’ skills competition held a while ago. Kent broke down the results:

Fastest Skater:
Freddy Sjostrom – 13.589 seconds
Mark Giordano – 13.958 seconds
Nigel Dawes – 14.043 seconds
(Glencross did not compete)
Hardest Shot:
Jarome Iginla – 102 MPH
Glencross – 100 MPH
Regehr – 98.1 MPH
(Phaneuf did not compete)
Most Accurate:
Kronwall – 4/5
Iginla – 4/6
Dawes – 4/6
(Conroy did not compete)
Olli Jokinen ran away in all other categories, including: biggest head, worst contract, best handlebar mustache, most frightening mug shot and most amusing fan created nicknames (Pumpkinhead, Sex Panther, Nolli Goalinen, Olli Poastagain).

by Rod Blogojevich on Feb 2, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Basically, if he is good, you’ll love him.
If he’s bad, you wont be able to hate him, because he is just so damn amusing.

by Rod Blogojevich on Feb 2, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

all i care is that he runs away with 5.25 mil in cap space end of the year.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I prefer “Pumpkinhead”

by goodieNY on Feb 2, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

a white Mr. Potato Head

by Poe678 on Feb 2, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

not to stir a different problem based on this article and analysis but is there a chance that this decline when leaving the SE division should be taken into account when it comes to Kovy as well or especially Vinny. the only guy i can think of off the top of my head who played as well or better was Savard.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

Possibly

Willis looked at arguably the top 5 players in the SE awhile back and adjusted their stats to just their out-of-division opponents. The biggest drop off in points was E. Stall with a 17.3% drop. Vinny had a 8.7% while Kovi came in with a 7.2% drop.

The SE just plain sucks (not really – but as a group they statistically lag behind).

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by Rob L on Feb 2, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

part of that is the awful goaltending that has been in the SE for many years and the wide open no defense style many of those teams played.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I really doubt Kovy will have trouble scoring wherever he goes…unless he was a Ranger :-O

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

i didnt say he would have trouble but if ur talking about taking 10% off the top in production, granted from a great level, it’s still a consideration in terms of what you give up to get him and how much u pay for him on the market is all.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

well put

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by Rob L on Feb 2, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

definitely a good point. i guess my question would be, when trying to predict his future performance relative to his market value, is the people he’ll be playing with or the people he will play against be a bigger factor?

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

i.e. he put up his current numbers in the SE, which you mentioned has some soft goaltending. but you could also argue that he did most of those numbers without a real true setup man (there was no Kurri to his Gretzky). So are these two facts a wash, or does one hold more weight than the other?

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

really, he had heatley, hossa, savard for a number of years. so he wasnt exactly flying solo.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

forgot about heatley. either way, my heart goes out to Atlanta once he leaves. They better get some real headliners for him, if not, that rink will be a Ghost town next year. It’s already like watching a PeeWee game down there with nobody in the crowd.

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

that rink is already a ghost town. anecdotally what i noticed cause i didnt run a regression on it is that in leaving the SE what declines in the numbers is goal scoring but assist numbers seem to stay relatively constant even with Olli and Jaybo to an extent so the setup men like Brad Richards and Savard have seen similar A totals but a drop in goals from my eye.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

my bigger concern with Kovy though is that he strikes me as the opposite of Gaborik when i watch him on the other side of the ice. gabby hustles, back checks and cares when we give up a goal, i dont see that from kovy. i know that the talent and the offense this team lacks should be an over-riding thing to a concern some would call trivial but when ur talking about locking a guy up for upwards of 10 years, a time in which his natural talent has to decline it is those effort things that will show up larger and larger.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of Backchecking-

Can’t wait to see Torts the first time Olli gives up on a play.

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

WARNING: Unsolicited opinions ahead:

IMO, I think that the Euro/Russian players just dont put as much of an emphasis on 2 way play(Gaborik et. al. being the exception). You look at someone like Callahan, he may not ever have the hands of a young Euro star, but he’s going full speed and straight at people antyime he’s on the ice.

If you ask me (and nobody did), it has to do with the coaching and way the game is played over there vs. over here. They’re brought up to fly around people and go end to end, where North American hockey just grinds it out a little more.

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont think that is a fair statement. cally plays the way he does because without it he is not an nhl player. to me it is more skill vs grinder type thing. the problem is that we notice the europeans more for not doing it because the vast majority of them that are in the league are the high skilled variety, but you cant tell me that Ovie, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfie, and the like dont backcheck and play two ways. There are those that dont obviously like Olli, Kovalev, Kovalchuk.

That said there are plenty of NA skill players who could care less defensively; Jeff Carter, Spezza, Heatley, Nash.

I just think for many of them it is not a lack of skill that doesnt make them backcheck and play 2 way hockey but a lack of desire to do so or fear of losing their paychecks by not doing it.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

look at petr prucha

that guy hustles

i agree with mleetch. i think when a player doesnt have the skill they depend more on grit. which is also good. any good team has a balance of both

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Feb 2, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

well based on this analysis it appears to say that the ones playing against are an even bigger factor when you consider the florida guys in particular as olli and jay bo both went to calgary “at different rates” and both have underperformed playing with much better talent in iginla and dion while he was there.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

The Joker

After this game, Jokinen won the hearts of Calgarians

Immediately thereafter, the legend of the Joker began…..

by Rod Blogojevich on Feb 2, 2010 1:55 PM EST reply actions  

he is creepy looking...

the clown makeup almost fits him well…scary

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

Yup, Olli definitely has a face to make dogs bark and small children cry.

by Joe1969 on Feb 2, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Why is a “rebuild” automatically associated with “missing the playoffs and tanking a season”.

The Devils never tanked a season, but yet they rebuild all the time, same with the Wings. Neither one of those teams have had a top-15 pick in at least a decade. Both teams went through a rebuild of sorts, where the teams transitioned from the old (Steve Yzerman / Scott Stevens) to the new (Zetterberg & Datsyuk / Parise & Zajac).

The Rangers ARE rebuilding as we speak. They have the #3 system in the league, and some high end talent that is a few years away. This is the rebuild. You don’t have to tank to rebuild. Biggest myth in sports.

by Dave Shapiro on Feb 2, 2010 2:03 PM EST reply actions  

name 1 player in the rangers minor league system, which i love that is a bonafide superstar?

Also the difference in the Devs and Redwings is they didnt have such a long stretch of missing in the draft so they slow walked their guys through the system adding a piece here and there allowing the new guys to grow into their roles.

Biggest myth in sports, hmmm. Looking at the best teams in hockey right now, this year, it is a 50/50 split on teams that tanked and teams that stayed good. problem with your analysis is this team hasnt been anywhere near the devs or redwings level to make it comparable in comparison. Chicago, Was, Pitt rebuilt on the back of top draft picks; SJS did it mainly via trades (thornton, heatley, boyle) but some draft; Buffalo is a draft org, as is Van other than Luongo.

So it can be done either way but none of the teams that are up there right now have been 8th place every year over and over hoping to get better.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

The difference there being Lou and Ken.

by goodieNY on Feb 2, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I think an organization’s system is a bigger signal of how good the teams have been. Detroit, NJ, Pitt, Buffalo all have built-in solid systems combined with actual team identities. This enables them to draft specific types of players that suit the system’s strengths. It’s not so much the players they pick as much as the overall team (or organ-I-zation).

The Rags have no team identity or real feel for where they are going. And that starts with Sather. One night they play a very tight defensive game, the other they lose by 6 goals, the next night they score 7 goals, you get my point.

The draft is extremely important, but free agency with proper role players filling in certain key sports can be just as important.

by stonecoldcory on Feb 2, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

The Rangers are always going to try and make the playoffs. We had plenty of years not making the playoffs and it didn’t help us.

I do agree that if we did tank and got some great picks it is a great way to rebuild. That isn’t likeley.

This is a good move. We still have a lot of bad contracts… but it is a move in the right direction. Let’s just hope the Cap space that is freed up isn’t put into another bad contract.

by CTrangerfan on Feb 2, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

honestly.

we have too much pride to let our team tank like the penguins did.

thats the difference between our fans and their fans.

our fans wouldnt stand for it.. their frans just left until they got better

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Feb 2, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Left is an understatement… their arena was BARE until a few years of tanking to get top flight talent like Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal… then people started showing up. In such a big market of NY, we have enough die-hards to keep filling the seats, even if we tank… if only Dolan would stop worrying about 2-3 games worth of playoff revenue for a year or two, he would make up for all of that in two seasons, then profit immensely for 4-5 at least…

by Kritikal on Feb 2, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I was living in Pittsburgh (went to grad school at Pitt) during those lean years. Empty is an understatement. They used to run a deal where students could get the best available tix for $20. I used to go with 3 or 4 guys to almost every game. We would inevitably end up with seats on the glass….kinda like going to see the Devils in Jersey when they paly anybody but the Rangers or Flyers.

by Twigs on Feb 2, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Great trade

It clears cap space. That simple. The rangers also get a guy that will put up some points. Not the combinded 30 from Higgins and Kotalik.

by zamis on Feb 2, 2010 2:04 PM EST reply actions  

I wouldn’t think so, seeing as how they haven’t even skated yet and came to NY after the game in Calgary last night. Probably Thurs.

by blueshirts1623 on Feb 2, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

TSN

TSN said they were flying out this morning to meet the team in LA

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by Rob L on Feb 2, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

excellent

their last game was in Calgary was it not?

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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 2, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Seems like they might both play tonight.

This is from Andrew Gross on Ranger Rants:

“Jokinen left Calgary for Los Angeles around 9 a.m. Mountain Time and was hoping to arrive at the arena for the morning skate, though Diamond said he doubted Jokinen would go on the ice since he played in the Flames’ 3-0 loss to the Flyers last night. But Jokinen – and Prust – are expected to be available for the Rangers tonight against the Kings.”

by Joe1969 on Feb 2, 2010 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

Yep – I don’t see why Joki wouldn’t play.

by goodieNY on Feb 2, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha

I think they should wait to play them until Thursday. It will be one hell of a cluster f*ck if they both play tonight.

by stonecoldcory on Feb 2, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see Prust playing tonight.

by goodieNY on Feb 2, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Can it really be worse than what Olli/Prust went through last night, playing out the string for their old team?

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Feb 2, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I suppose

Just seems like a bit much to ask of them.

by stonecoldcory on Feb 2, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

They're not in middle school...

These are professionals who get paid to play a game…no need to baby them. Get them in there, put them in a few situations, give them a chance to get with the team before returning to Garden ice and the pressure that comes with that.

Anybody making millions of dollars has no sympathy from me. I know its a rigorous, condensed schedule, but c’mon…

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, cool

But when he’s gassed in the middle of the 2nd period, don’t get pissed at him.

by stonecoldcory on Feb 2, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

and why would he be gassed, they play back to back all the time w traveling. not like calgary played sunday too.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

true

he probably played at 50% last night.

by stonecoldcory on Feb 2, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

even if he played at 100, still only a back to back w short trip to LA.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

and don't forget that prust

will b on the 3rd or 4th line meaning 6 minutes. Hard to get gassed with that little ice time

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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 2, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

yea but prust will spend 90 seconds in a brawl tonight and that can wear u out quick.

prust vs simmonds would be sick…i would say ivanans but that dude is too huge (6’ 3" 263). matt greene another candidate.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

What are you gonna do with your Higgins jersey Smurf?

by Twigs on Feb 2, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

just remove the letters?
could call it a collector’s item, ha.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

no, posts were early in the year, it will go wide and then there’s a DRINK call.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

My drinking game is ruined :(

by goodieNY on Feb 2, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

i had some new ideas last night.

Rozi missing the net from the point
Olli not backchecking
each prust fight
Girardi or Redden not hitting someone in the crease

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

:)

how about drury taking a spapshot on a breakaway?

hes done than about 5 times this season

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Feb 2, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Drury taking a slap shot on a breakaway

should be chug your drink. Since he only gets on a break away about once a week but every time he does it he takes a slap shot

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

by Joe Fortunato on Feb 2, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

sounds like a recipe for alcohol poisoning

by jmisc on Feb 2, 2010 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Never had one

In case you haven’t been able to tell, I don’t get emotionally attached to players or the team. There are better things to do with my time. You’ll also note I’ve been calling Higgins a closetozero and a few other things of late.

All I’ve done all season with him is presented stats that argued he was underperforming and that history dictated he should’ve turned around.

The fact that he never did is a shame really, given his hustle, he’s could’ve been the LW version of Callahan for us. I think he probably picks it up but whatever, he’s gone now.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Feb 2, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Well there’s no way he could do any less.

Come on? No emotion? Then why are you on here so much? Emotion is a prerequisite for being a devoted fan. And I think you are a devoted fan.

I’m just glad that you came around on Higgins although I don’t think there was anything closeted about his being a zero. It was pretty plain to see since, oh, about October.

by Twigs on Feb 2, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m on here because I’ve played/watched hockey near my entire life, my allegiance is to the hometown Rangers, and most importantly because there are some pretty smart people here who know their stuff. I enjoy talking hockey more than pretty much anything.

And you and I have different definitions of devoted fan. Emotion implies that losses hurt and ruin your day/week/month whatever. I don’t lose sleep when the Rangers lose, I don’t get that kick to the gut that many fans feel when your team takes a brutal loss, or loses their favorite player, or whatever.

They’re my team, but if I lived and died with what the Rangers did I’d feel like I lived a very sad life. If that doesn’t make me a “devoted fan” in someone’s eyes, I can live with that.

And Higgins wasn’t a complete zero. He obviously and blatantly never lived up to his career history during his time here, but he wasn’t completely ineffective, and many of the points I made about him over the months still stand. For whatever reason he could never finish, for whatever reason as his struggles mirrored other players on the team (Callahan, Avery notably), they turned it around where he couldn’t. As I said, it’s a shame.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Feb 2, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Emotion merely implies that you stand and cheer when the Rangers score, get angry when your star player gets beat up, feel anxous when the goalie is pulled and your looking for that tying goal…it doesn’t necessarily mean that you walk around in a stupper for 3 days when they lose a game. I feel sad that you don’t share in these feelings. I know for me, if I didn’t feel these types of emotions I’d probably find another way to spend my time.

I too have a life but I consider the Rangers a part of it. Since I was a little boy I always watched played and talked hockey with my old man. I hope someday to do the same with my boy.

As for Higgins, we can agree to disagree on that one. To steal a line from Christmas Vacation, “washing machines work hard”, I just wouldn’t necessarily want to see one on LW wearing a Ranger jersey.

And even with this trade I say…FIRE SATHER!!!!

by Twigs on Feb 2, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Emotion merely implies that you stand and cheer when the Rangers score, get angry when your star player gets beat up, feel anxous when the goalie is pulled and your looking for that tying goal…it doesn’t necessarily mean that you walk around in a stupper for 3 days when they lose a game.

Ok, no, I don’t watch the game like a robot incapable of understanding human response. But yeah, what you described I don’t really feel. I cheer and such but it’s entertainment to me, a diversion if you will, that brings an enjoyment I get from any hobby or pastime. So since happiness is an emotion, sure, I have emotions, but I’m not emotional about it, if that makes sense.

I don’t see why I should feel like kicking a puppy because Avery fell down again, or Rozsival skated like he’s doing a Matrix impression, or some of the other stuff that would otherwise drive someone up a wall with this team.

Yeah, I know you’re one of the biggest Higgins bashers, it’s cool. As I said, talking hockey brings me joy and arguing it brings just as much. I’m not stubborn, I do read and absorb everything you pointed out, and kept it in mind while watching him.

I was certainly closer to your side of the argument toward the end here, there comes a point where it’s just not going to happen and the coaching staff never seemed to see it, and kept his ice time up while killing that of Lisin, EC, or whoever else that may have been able to give an offensive spark.

I’ve moved on to bigger and better things now than Higgins. Like arguing with the crazy people who think the point production of a team in the new NHL should still look like it did in the 80s and early 90s:

100-120-100
75-90-75
50-70-50
20-20-20

thus making Cally and Dubi 3rd liners.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Feb 2, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

You show me a team with 170 points out of it’s 3rd line and 60 out of it’s 4th and I’ll show you a Stanley Cup champion.

That type of point production will be very difficult to mirror in the age of the salary cap. You have a first and secong line with that type of production and you sure not gonna have much money left once you are done paying them. I mean, with those numbers you are looking at an 18 million (minimum) first line alone.

by Twigs on Feb 2, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you should look at the SJ Sharks as the best example. Their first and second lines look a lot like the 1st two lines in your example but look at their 3rd and 4th lines. All character guys that score infrequesntly but focus on their own end knowing the horses will take care of the offense.

by Twigs on Feb 2, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Even they’re not close. Roughly, they’re at

90-100-90
50-60-50
25-30-25
10-20-10

That’s more like what the new NHL will look like. And that’s my point. 50-60 point guys in this NHL are 2nd liners now, whereas the good ol’ days they were 3rd liners.

Good teams could have 3, 4 even 5 guys with 30 goals, one of whom would have 50 and likely another with 40. Now, only 10 guys in the whole league can get to 40 goals.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Feb 2, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

??

did you guys miss your support group this week?

I thought Higgs wasn’t all bad – the guy was seriously snake-bit though …

by bleed'n blue on Feb 2, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

so does Olli take Higgys 21 or go back to the FLA days and take Kots 12?

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

Either way. As long as he keeps that beauty of a stash.

by Twigs on Feb 2, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

12 – Olli Jokinen
  8 – Brandon Prust

per: http://rangers.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

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by dbmaven on Feb 2, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks db…is there a site that goes through the numbers over the years?

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

i meant the rangers organization not a player, knew how to find the players, but thanks rob.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Welcome!

Yeah there is a site like that. It’s actually the damned Rangers home site – it’s just that I don’t think it’s linked anywhere that you can find on the site itself.

But as usual – Google! – comes to the rescue….

http://rangers.nhl.com/club/atrhome.htm

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994

by dbmaven on Feb 2, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

lets hope ...

let’s hope the curse of good ol Malik “8” doesn’t haunt Prust

by DJ Chicken on Feb 2, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

8 was also Steve Vickers. We could use him now.

by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Feb 2, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

It wouldn’t be so bad if he pulled a move out of his ass once in a while (remember when Brashear deked the shit out of that one guy) and generated a nice scoring chance. Malik and that shootout is probably our only good memory of him, period.

by Kritikal on Feb 2, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

i get strongly emotionally attached.

i scream cheer whine complain laugh smile cry… watching a ranger game is an emotional roller coaster for me.. its like dating a girl that changes her feelings every 5 minutes.. ahhh

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Feb 2, 2010 3:54 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah but....

Aren’t you like 18 yrs old or so?

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Feb 2, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

From Steve Zipay on Twitter:

“Tortorella: Jokinen will start with Gaborik and Prospal, Prust in as well; Lisin, Brashear healthy scratches.”

by Joe1969 on Feb 2, 2010 5:01 PM EST reply actions  

I like Prust because he’s an up-and-comer, and is anxious to establish himself as a bona fide tough guy. I truly hope he rearranges Carcillo’s already ugly face.

by Joe1969 on Feb 2, 2010 5:32 PM EST reply actions  

he is gonna rip that mustache right off

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It is the reason he is here. I wonder if anyone has brought him up to speed on this. Think Avery is whispering in his ear.

by christopherm on Feb 2, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m certain he’s VERY familiar with Carcillo – who was on the Coyotes for 3 years – and they were teammates on the ’Yotes for 11 games last year.

Carcillo – 6’0" – 205
Prust – 5’11" – 195

Seems like a fair matchup to me. At least Gaborik’s face mask won’t have to beat in Carcillo’s knuckle’s any more….

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994

by dbmaven on Feb 2, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

The conversation could possibly go along the lines of this:

Avery: Psst, Prust, come here a sec…
Prust: What’s up, Aves?
Avery: You know why you’re here, right?
Prust: Yeah, my scoring touch and leadership ability… chuckle oh wait, that’s Drury…
Avery ROFLs
Avery: Your first shift, you need to make a statement… look for the biggest guy on the ice, and as soon as he goes to play the puck, take his fucking head off. If he gets up, drop the gloves and make sure he doesn’t.

Almost sounds like the great 80s :P

by Kritikal on Feb 2, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Does anyone think since we need a 7th D-man and Heikkenen is from Finland, we’ll bring him up? He’s not enormously skilled, but at least he liked to hit people.

by Joe1969 on Feb 2, 2010 5:57 PM EST reply actions  

Heikkenen

He has been up this year for 7 games and a +2 rating thus far. He didn’t stand out too much, but I do like that he can move the puck out of his own end well and is willing to take the body.

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by Rob L on Feb 2, 2010 6:36 PM EST reply actions  

I would like to see Heineken earn a spot this year or next if one of our current D gets moved or sent down

and yes i know its heikenen but screw it lol

by b4mv01 on Feb 2, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

talk the other day was that heik is probably going back overseas cause he is in the minors here.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

man i hope not…i really liked how he played when he was here

by b4mv01 on Feb 2, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

from brooks the other day,

" The Rangers’ decision to keep Wade Redden and Michal Rozsival on the roster and in the lineup every day is not only choking the team’s cap situation, is not only costing the team points in the standings, but is quite likely to drive Ilkka Heikkinen back overseas when the 25-year-old Finnish defenseman’s contract expires at the end of the season.

This is emblematic of the irrational thinking that defines a front office (or ownership) that refuses to admit its mistakes and cut its losses, thereby ensuring further losses on and off the ice.

Heikkinen, operating on a two-way contract after signing as a free agent last summer, is earning $65,000 this season in Hartford.

Rest assured the physical defenseman with offensive instincts who received praise from coach John Tortorella during a seven-game trial run in December, will receive offers of substantially more guaranteed money from the KHL, which, of course, he would be foolish not to accept."

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/so_here_the_deal_Nn4QSpLporiXa5b3bTAcPI#ixzz0eQU6LWfc

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

i would understand if he left…i just hope he doesn’t and then earns a spot next season

by b4mv01 on Feb 2, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

reality is unless he is guaranteed a spot here or somewhere else he would probably take the guaranteed money in europe.

by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Smiley for Jokinen

Courtesy of Ryan Lambert (Two-Line Pass):

: (|)

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by Bettman's Nightmare on Feb 2, 2010 6:48 PM EST reply actions  

dead weight for dead weight..

the only thing good about this trade was getting rid of kotalick,s contract but it is garbage for garbage fire sather now and go get kolvachuck ..

by lohaus#54 on Feb 2, 2010 7:24 PM EST reply actions  

Jokinen isn't garbage. Not even close. Having a down year,

but accumulated a ton of points in his career. Immediately becomes the second best offensive player on the Rangers. I’m excited to see Prust. I think we’re gona love him. He likes to fight… a lot. I wouldn’t be surprised if he throws down tonight just to make an impression on the new team.

"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS

by nrmax88 on Feb 2, 2010 8:22 PM EST reply actions  

about prust.

you tube some of his fights jeez i don,t know who is a worse fighter him or poopshear the guy cant fight a lick ..

by lohaus#54 on Feb 3, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Every time Christensen centers the first line they get lots of goals and productivity. He is a very under rated center and has a high face off win %. Leave him there and put Jokinen on the second line.

by dc2mom on Feb 2, 2010 8:36 PM EST reply actions  

In case there was any confusion...

Prust, on the pronunciation of his name: “Rhymes with rust and dust…”

by goodieNY on Feb 2, 2010 8:45 PM EST reply actions  

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