Q&A: How to win a CUP in < 54 Years
by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 2:10 PM EST
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Just wanted to take a break from all the trade hype, and figured the late start tonight will open up a little time for some reflection. It took the Rangers 54 years to finally win a Stanley Cup, and about 5-10 years after that to completely drop out of the running. How long will it take for them to be a contender again?
I'm looking for thoughts on the following (and their Front Office should be listening too):
- When will the Rangers be a cup contender again?
- What did they have then, that they dont have now?
- What about their current team is worth keeping? (i.e. Hank)
Floor is yours....
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how can you pick mdz
without hank this team would need 10-20 years to have a chance.. he gives them a chance right now if they make the right moves
LETS GO RANGERS!!!! SECTION 405!!!!!
Tough Call
This is a tough call because Henrik can obviously win at a high level (Olylmpic Gold) but its even more obvious nowadays that a superstar on Forward is more key than a superstar in goal. Henrik will have to keep playing at an elite level until he is in his mid-thirties in order to see some of the talent come through if he is expected to be the cornerstone of NYR.
If you doubt me look at this post by Willis looking at how the Red Wings GM Ken Holland has won cups without a stud in goal.
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+1
As good as Henrik is, I agree with Rob. A solid end to end D-man is a much rarer find than a sturdy netminder. And even a Vezina candidate will get fed up with a D that’s full of holes (see: Lundqvist in the 09-10 season!)
by Jersey BlueshirtFan on Feb 2, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
There’ve been tons of recent sub-threads buried amidst other topics on this.
Quickly, my thoughts.
You build a team from the keeper out.
We’ve got the keeper – for the foreseeable future.
Chad Johnson looks promising as the next in line.
The blue line is a disaster, esp with R+R. See my dissertation about sending them to HFD.
Add a big d-man with “bite” (Exelby/Boynton?)
Bring up Heikkinen.
Hope that Del Zotto matures quickly (physically) and learns the defensive side of the game.
Too many things to deal with @ forward.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
Great teams are built around a group of players. A good captain sure would help. Del Zoto may be that captain in a few years?
One of the rangers problems has been looking to get that one guy to be the “game changer”. The Rangers need to work the youth in the system to make this team better. They need to be come a better team with better depth then fill any with the big trade. We can’t put out any long term contracts till we get rid of more bad ones… and that won’t be easy.
And while a great goalie is always a game changer… I don’t know if you really need to build around a goalie. Hank will compliment everyone he plays with. The only thing I would say is we need some toughness to protect him. I think you need that with any goalie who is worth protecting.
So I guess my answer is all of the above…
1. When will the Rangers be a cup contender again? No earlier than 2014.
2. What did they have then, that they dont have now? A solid core of players with top-notch leadership, from the owner to GM to the team captain.
3. What about their current team is worth keeping? Hank, Staal, MDZ, Gaborik, Dubinsky, Callahan, AA, Lisin, Avery, Voros, Prust. Keep Torts, Fire Sather.
Other thoughts:
We need depth in scoring and hustle, and need defensive defensemen other than Staal (and possibly Girardi). A defensive pair should consist of an offensive defenseman to creep up into a scoring lane, and a defensive one willing to take on some of his partner’s slack. The center should take what’s left over. We have playmakers that have found some success (Prospal, Christensen, Gaborik being dynamic in his role, MDZ in a way). We have primary scoring from Gaborik and Callahan. We lack consistent secondary scoring. If our primaries get in a slump, we lose far more times than win because of the lack of it.
If we can get most of this from our prospects, and the rest from free agency and tinker trades, we could be cup contenders in 4-5 years, possibly sooner if Sather keeps using his Jedi Mind Tricks on other teams’ GMs.
I agree with most of Kritikal’s thoughts. Both Gabby and Hank are the building blocks
A general observation is that right now, some of our best players (Dubinsky, Callahan) are not first line players. On a Cup contender, they would be excellent supporting players who fill in the slack, not primary scorers. As good as MDZ and Staal have been, I sort of feel this way about them too.
So assuming Chad is going to pan out as our backup contender, I would look for 2 Primary Guys, preferably veterans – one offensive (Kovalchuk’s too much to hope for, but a Cammaleri-type player) and one defensive (a Pronger type – mean streak a must). Although these two moves wouldn’t bring us a Cup, I think these moves + the young ‘uns coming up should make us a good team in 3 years and contenders in 4-5 years.
As a final thought – if Prust is as tough as he seems to be, HANG ON TO HIM. He’s not as big as Colton Orr, but we need guys like this. All Cup contenders have them.
He’d be considered a middleweight if we’re gonna label people like Orr/Laraque/etc as heavies…
Youtube his fights with Rypien… guy looks good, just what we need right now.
Totally agree. Good technique, and even more importantly, that pit bull mentality. Anybody touches Gabby or Hank, he will come FLYING in, I have no doubt.
I see him doing what that guy from Washington did when Ovechkin dropped his gloves… coming OFF THE BENCH and making sure his star player didn’t get injured needlessly, regardless of getting ejected. If we had Prust during the Philly game, he would have saved Gaborik from getting his pretty visor dented by Carcillo :P
Step one: Get rid of deadweight (two gone hurray and hopefully more to come)
Step two: Try to get as good draft picks as you can (well.. they just have to keep doing what they’re doing)
Step three: Get som awesome prospect from the draft
Step four: get rid of Sather (heard rumours he might walk at the end of the season?)
Step five: Dont sign more deadweight on long expensive contracts.
Then put it in the oven for 3-4 years and BAM… DONE
Then what do we have? Hopefully Stepan, Grachev, MDZ, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Cally etc is now well under way to be the cornerstones of our team.
And We’ll also have one high quality prospect (like Stamkos, Tavares) and still have some prospects in AHL with a bright future.
This would be the dream. It’s not as easy as it sound BUT.. I hope we’ll be dead last this season and perhaps trade for some draftpicks.
This would solve a lot of problems in a few years even if we cant trade away the R&R sisters.
1. When will the Rangers be a cup contender again?
Either in the next 3-5 years, or not for a long time.
2. What did they have then, that they dont have now?
In 94? DEPTH. DEPTH DEPTH DEPTH. We had scoring throughout the team, and those that didn’t contributed with effort. They also had quality leadership (both vocal and on-ice in Mess/Gravy/Leetch/Beuk…a lot of the line-up). The D also wasn’t a picnic to play against. Beuk was our big boy, but Wells/Lowe weren’t afraid to smash your face if you got near Richter, and 2 skill guys in Zub/Leetch.
3. What about their current team is worth keeping? (i.e. Hank)
Hank/Cally/Gabby/AA (I think AA is our 3rd line center, but if Torts would use him more and he developed some playmaking ability, 2nd line)
Avery, Lisin (I think they need to work with his defensive game and put him on the PK, he’s cheap, but he can skate) on the 3rd with AA,
We’re stuck with Drury, who should be the #2 center. I think Dubi is at most a cheap winger on the top 2 lines. I don’t see him developing into top-notch center material.
4th line is completely replaceable unless Boyle starts asserting his Sasquatch self.
Need to dump off Rosi (he can be traded most likely for an expiring FA) and get rid of Girardi (he had a good upside but has digressed this season to street cone status).
Figure:
Gabby/#1 Center/Dubi
Cally/Drury/WTB scoring winger
Avery/AA/Lisin
4th line (figure Prust/Boyle are decent enough, get a speedy winger who can go on the PK and I’d be happy)
MDZ/Big D man (think Beukish)
Staal (need to sign him long term, but cheap, because IMO he’s not worth a big contract. 4yrs 12m tops? / paired with a decent puck moving D-man
Redden (we’ll never be rid of this wanker)/defensive D-man with some size to cover up Redden’s indifference about…everything.
So, being stuck with a few bad contracts, and hopefully moving Rosi, I think we need a bonifide #1 Center, a winger who can score, and 2 good-sized D-men who can clear Hank’s porch. And it needs to be done in Hank’s prime.
My biggest concern with Hank is that I don’t know how long a true butterfly goalie can hold up over time. I think he spends a lot more time down in the ‘fly than guys like Roy did. I don’t know how long the joints can take that, especially with all the contact he takes, the olympics…we can hope…but we can never be sure.
as for what to keep: Hank/Gabby/Staal/MDZ/AA/Dubi are what you build around from the big club. I want to say Cally cause i love how he plays, but in a cold assessment of talent he is really a 3rd liner so not a piece u necessarily build around. Add in Grachev/Stepan/McDonagh/Sangs over the next couple seasons and it is moving in the right direction with Kreider, Horak, Werek all coming further down the line.
Also look at every stanley cup champ at least the last 5 years and probably longer, what do they all have in common? Built at the Center position and got good goaltending. You dont win titles with wingers, you win it with Centers. devils might be the exception
Crosby, Malkin, Staal
Datysuk
Getzlaf
Staal, Brindamour, Cullen (huge playoff)
Brad Richards, Vinny
by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Well...
Crosby, Malkin, Staal had amazing play from Fleury…
Datysuk had Osgood who once he gets to the playoffs he plays like a God…
Getzlaf had JS Giguere who was an animal in the playoffs that year after taking care of his wife and daughter…
Staal, Brindamour, Cullen had Cam Ward who emerged as an elite goaltender and hasn’t looked back…circa this season
Brad Richards, Vinny Lecavalier had Khabibulin who also played with a purpose that year…
you need it all to win the cup. if your weak in one area you will get that exploited and you will lose.
i guess u missed where i said centers and good goaltending since u wanted to point out i didnt list all the goalies. we have the goalie, we dont have the centers on that level, so while a lot of people want to make gaborik the center of this team, u dont win with wingers.
by Michael Gleich on Feb 2, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Build through the Draft...
Take a look at this piece:
http://www.behindthenethockey.com/2010/2/2/1288813/the-flames-leafs-blockbuster-trade
Blueshirt Banter - End the Sather Era
US Soccer - The Yanks Are Coming
Red Sox Fan behind Enemy lines.
Please enlarge that to "side of the barn" proportions
and post it outside MSG so that Sather can’t miss it.
I mean – that doesn’t sound anything at all like what most of the regulars on so many Rangers blogs have been saying, right???
Arghhhhh……
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
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