Rangers Analysis: Should They Be Sizing Up a Jersey for Sheldon Souray?
The New York Rangers need to acquire two things at the trade deadline this coming Wednesday; a physical, crease clearing defenseman, and some offense. A healthy Sheldon Souray would accomplish both. The oft-injured 33 year old has one of the hardest shots in the entire league and plays with a mean streak. It was actually during a fight that Souray received the injury he is on the IR for right now.
I, myself, have been calling for Souray's acquisition since 2008, a year after he signed in Edmonton. His first choice during the 2007 off-season was to sign with the Rangers, but he entered the game too late, after they had already signed Scott Gomez and Chris Drury; there was no money left. Souray waited a week, hoping the Rangers could free up enough cap space to sign him, but it never happened and he landed in Edmonton. His first season there was less than memorable when he only played 26 games due to injury while recording 3 goals and 7 assists for 10 points. It appeared that it was the right move after all not to sign him.
Then came last season, and the Souray we all know and love was back. He scored 23 goals (12 on the powerplay) to go along with 30 points and 98 penalty minutes. The stat that was the most telling, however, was his plus/minus. Souray had become infamous in Montreal for scoring 26 goals and ending up a -28 on the season. But last year, he was a +1 on a not so very good Oilers team.
But now it appears Souray is in the midst of one of those injury plagued seasons. He has only appeared in 37 games thus far, and has 4 goals and 9 assists to show for it. I know for a fact that Glen Sather is talking to the Oilers right now, wanting to acquire him. But do they really want to gamble on another high risk, high reward player?
The first question you must ask yourself is, what does trading for him accomplish? Well, we all know he has a knack for scoring powerplay goals and recorded one of the hardest slapshots on record during a team skills competition in Edmonton last season. The Rangers powerplay, after starting out the season on fire, has now slipped to the middle of the pack. What was going to be their "powerplay savior" has since been shipped off to Calgary after a mediocre showing. If the Rangers want to go anywhere, they will need their special teams to click once more. A point paring of Del Zotto for passing and Souray for the shot could be a lethal combination.
When it comes to overall team toughness, the Rangers have to be near the bottom of the league. Time and time again we see players get pushed around and hit and no one sticks up for them. We also see Henrik Lundqvist get repeatedly bumped into, and the defensive corps, which I like to call the "Broadway Ballerina Troupe", stands around and watches. Souray is one mean, nasty, S.O.B and will not stand for any of that. He fights and hits, and when healthy, can be a player to instill fear into opponents when they get in the crease area.
Getting back to what I said earlier, I wanted Souray the day he hit free agency and I want him still. Last July I even created this fan page for him titled, Get Sheldon, which I hoped would have started a movement to acquire the defenseman. Getting him would help this team down the stretch, but at what price would we be willing to pay?
The Rangers would need to trade Michal Rozsival or Wade Redden in order for it to work. Whether it is a straight up deal, a waiver burying, or a three-team trade, one of those salaries needs to come off the books. Edmonton is looking to shed salary and will probably have half their team traded by Wednesday, so taking back a large salary is probably not a realistic scenario, unless there is some youth involved. The rumors of a trade of Brandon Dubinsky for Andrew Cogliano are false, but when included as part of a package, then it could happen.
Glen Sather would need to work his trade magic with Edmonton. Tom Renney loved Michal Rozsival in New York and was the only reason he was re-signed after Jaromir Jagr left town. A trade would need to look something like Rozsival, Dubinsky, and Girardi for Souray and Cogliano.
Girardi has been brutal this season and when looking at the various Ranger blogs out there, I think it would be safe to say that Girardi would win a voting on, "Which Ranger is most likely to be traded?" As for Cogliano, he has struggled mightily this season but is one of the fastest skaters in the game. Could putting him with Gaborik set off a spark?
If that exact trade were to happen, I think the Rangers would be the overall winners, but Edmonton makes out well too. Souray is owed $9 million over the next two seasons ($5.4 million cap hit) while Rozsival is owed only $7 million ($5 million cap hit). Cogliano, meanwhile, is an RFA and mill only get a raise to about $1.5 million.
This leaves the Rangers a defenseman short, but with Potter, Sanguinetti, and Heikkinen in the mix, I think the Rangers would take that gamble. After all, none of those three could play any worse than Girardi has this season. The Rangers have also just recalled Corey Potter this morning, which means they could be working on a trade that will result in the loss of a defenseman.
A trade for Sheldon Souray is not simple, it comes with a lot of baggage. There are a lot of positives and negatives going both ways, but in the long run, I think it would be a good move provided they don't give up too much. My message to Glen Sather will be the same as it was a year ago; "Get Sheldon."
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Comments
Gregg – not for nothin’ – but everyone’s pretty clear that you are/have been and probably will continue to be on a “get Sourary” kick.
And many of us have echoed the sentiment “Just say NO!”.
Changing the particulars of who to send away in a particular ‘package’ to acquire him doesn’t change the inherent sentiment that many have voiced – like in these comments to your ‘proposal’ from the other day:
http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2010/2/27/1329679/two-trade-predictions
Souray does not make them a legitimate contender this year, or long-term.
Giving up anything to get him is counter-productive.
Cogliano will not stand up in the Eastern Conference – he’ll be a concussed ex-NHLer inside of 3 years if traded to the east.
As I’ve said before – for all of the wrong reasons – Sather will make this deal, or one similar to it. And it will be just as retarded tomorrow as it was yesterday.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
dont forget today. the only and i mean only good thing about souray if rozi or redden go the other way is he will be hurt so much we will LTIR replacement money.
And with the #NYR luck, he’ll be marginally injured all the time – not enough to qualify for LTIR, but still unable to play.
If you’re going to trade big salaries around – your objective should be to end up in an improved situation – not worse – and not swapping one problem for a different problem.
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"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"
Dbmaven- what in the holy hell are you talking about? Cogliano won’t stand up in the East? The east is considerably less physical than the West. No ifs, ands or buts.
by Rod Blogojevich on Mar 1, 2010 2:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Uh --- yeah, okay.....
Let’s be more specific. Atlantic Division. Plus Washington.
You’re entitiled to your opinion – but if you think that group is “considerably less physical than the West” – you need to get out more.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"
yeah lets just keep redden and rosival and retire them as rangers jeez im getting a headache with some of this useless talk..
Not exactly sure where you get anything out of any of the comments about keeping either or both R+R.
Speaking for myself only, I am adamantly against trading ANYTHING to get rid of them.
I am firmly IN FAVOR of demoting either or both of them to Hartford – I’ve been vocal about it and laid it out in great detail.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"
I’d rather see Hamuis on Broadway for a Girardi package. But that’s a pipe dream.
I can see Sather doing a Souray/Rozsival swap with spare parts coming and going. Honestly, that’s one of those “my problem for your problem” deals. It may work out, it may not. There are definitely pluses and minuses on each side.
that wasnt a my problem for ur problem deal was it? that was sather buying again and actually coming out on top of a deal.
also aves 2 mil this year imo is wasted as he has only really impacted half a dozen games.
It was a change of scenery deal when coming over from LA.
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Follow up question for you, do you think Girardi has run his course in NY? If so, what do you think the Rangers can get for him?
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
yes. i said in the other thread if leopold can get a 2 in the right system i think girardi (who is younger and an rfa) is just as good and should be able to net similar value.
So you would trade Girardi for a second and insert Heikkinen in the lineup?
If Girardi nets a 2nd, I’d be all for it. I don’t think he can though, and I think he will be packaged in a deal. For who, I have no idea.
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
boston has been link to hamhuis like mad and while girardi is no hamhuis if we packaged him and vinny to boston we could net a nice return i think.
McKenzie shot down the Hamhuis to Boston rumors.
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
i never said he was going to boston….this better? boston has been said to be in the market for a D and a scoring winger.
Fair enough, I was just saying that McKenzie shot down the rumors. Hamhuis will be dealt though.
I don’t see Vinny going anywhere, think a package of Girardi/Potter as a starting point can land Hamhuis?
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
They don’t make good trading partners then. Oh well.
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Hamhuis would be the top priority in free agency, assuming wherever he lands doesn’t re-sign him.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm...I thought we freed up enough money.
They’re 12.85m light right now, with this coming on the books:
Dubinsky – Gaborik – ?
Avery – Drury- Callahan
? – Anisimov – ?
Voros – Boyle – Brashear
? – MDZ
Redden – Rozsival
Gilroy – ?
RFA: Christensen, Prust, Lisin, Staal, Girardi.
If Staal is the only one coming back, say 2/6.5m for him (b/c Sather won’t lock him up for 8+ years), that leaves 9.75.
Hmm..yeah I guess if they’re signing a 1st line forward, unless it’s Prospal, it won’t be cheap.
Crap.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yup, they need to dump a contract. Badly.
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I agree, and I think Christensen will be too.
I wasn’t speculating on any of them other than to say they’re options we have the rights to if they were to re-sign.
A ton of the AHL guys are RFAs also, Heik, Sauer, Potter, Locke, Byers, Zaba, Valentenko…which doesn’t immediately affect the cap b/c they’re not here, but may have an impact if they’re in the long term plans.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Reasonable.
It’s Sather so he’ll probably lowball him to 950k and settle for slightless less than 1.2.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Nashville has a s-ton of defenders waiting (6 of their top 12 prospects) similar to us. I don’t think D for D is the way to get that deal accomplished.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Souray = pretty much the same contract as Rozsival ($400k difference, same terms)
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Souray=10 times better than Rozival on offense
----Warner----
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by Scent of a Woman on Mar 1, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Pass
Unless we get rid of R or R and give up nothing else.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Mar 1, 2010 10:38 AM EST reply actions
Personally Sather
Should be making moves to help for this year and the future. Young guys like Horton or Booth, mainly Horton though.
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by Joe Fortunato on Mar 1, 2010 10:49 AM EST via mobile reply actions
i think this deal makes us worse in the short run AND the long run – we get somewhat bigger and tougher on D, but get much small and weaker on O.
And even though I don’t like the plus/minus stat as dealbreaker, we’d be trading a career -59, for a career +39 (or there abouts) – and like someone said above, it is a least a little bit telling.
whoops
- meant trading away a career +, for a career -…. Though Rozi hasn’t had the best year on D, he’s been holding his own somewhat. If we trade for Souray, F*ck You Rozi! will simply become F*ck you Sheldon! That guy isn’t that good in his own zone.
+/- is overrated
For this year, Souray’s playing the hardest comp, been victimized by the worst sv%, but still has the best Corsi on the team.
Does that mean we should get Souray? No. But it does mean he hasn’t been as bad as that +/- indicates.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Where do you see the Corsi ratings? I can get GVT from behindthenet,ca, but I can’t find Corsi anywhere.
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
It’s on behindthenet, I’m blind. Woohoo!
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
The Corsi there is relative to the team.
The raw data can be gotten here (well, what this link actually does is list a mysterious player #99 that shows the data of two players on ice together, in this case #44 (Souray) and #71 (Visnovsky) However, all of the players by themselves are also listed. It loads slow so be patient)
http://timeonice.com/playershots0910.php?team=EDM&first=20001&last=21230&daniel=44&henrik=71
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
i mentioned above that i recognize that
Still, throughout his career he’s been a – 59 …. that DOES say SOMETHING. This year aside, he’s not much better a defender than Rozival – my point is simply that we wouldn’t improve by getting Souray, even with his tremendous shot. The upside is not nearly as heavy as the downside
It does say something, but not as much as you think. He was a -28 in 2006-2007 for Montreal, but no one on the team played defense, and the goaltending tandem was atrocious. Add that to his -19 this year with a terrible EDM team, and that’s -47.
The stat is skewed.
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, but I’m dismissing this year because no one on the Oilers outside of Penner is on the positive side of the +/-.
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 1, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
How do you know how much I think it means? If you look at my posts, I clearly use language like “little bit”, and “says something”…. nowhere do I imply that this is an all-important stat… in fact I allude to it being a minor one.
The point of my post was to add a minor reason to the long list of other reasons why we should never make this trade for Souray. All that was supposed to be added was that Souray is not much of a defensive upgrade over Rozi, if any at all. He’s not the crease-clearing D-man that the Rangers need.
I realize the +/- stat is overrated – but no where in my posts did I overrate it. It seems like you’re just trying to assert your “stat knowledge” dominance over me, by making assumptions about my meaning. I could understand it if you took my mention of +/- at all as being an overrating of it, but only if you think the stat should never be mentioned. I think it’s worth mentioning, no matter how skewed, or overrated it is. So is his age, and his injury record. Souray is not the defenseman that the Rangers need, and those are some of the reasons why. That’s all I was trying to say.
If we could make this deal asending back Rozsival straight up I would do it.
The x-factor would be if Souray stays healthy. If he does we would be gaining an offensive d-man who can clears the crease. Bottom line is Souray is a better d-man than Roszi and would help in critical areas………….but only for Rozsi straight up and nothing else
by giantsNYrangers on Mar 1, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
YES! Let’s get another high-priced vet who’s heading off into the winter of his career and is starting to spend more time on the injured list than a New York Met. That’s EXACTLY what this team needs, and the exact thinking process that has led to so much recent success.
Roszival hasn’t been too awful lately, just dump him off for a bag of pucks or something.
Enough about Souray…just say nay.
Great Article Greg
I would love to have Souray here just for his laser of a shot.
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This is just talk but
I would love any one with the last name johnson from the US team, damn those guys are good.
by louielounz1 on Mar 1, 2010 7:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yea, they would be an awesome addition to this blueline.
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by Nick Montemagno on Mar 1, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
thats like an average joe dreaming of marrying a supermodel, lol. but yes that would be great
by CrazyRangerFan on Mar 2, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions

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