what would you give for Edmonton's first round pick?

by Kevin Power on Mar 17, 2010 8:40 AM EDT

It's a simple question and let's try to keep it realistic here, the rangers would probably call the offices in Alberta to see what they would want for a chance to draft either Hall, Segin or Fowler. All three would be a vast improvement over what we have now and will greatly help in our rebuilding process

Question is: What do you think it would take? Edmonton's GM has said that "I'll be interested in what kind of calls I get from other teams" (Edmonton Journal)

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This isn’t even a pipe-dream. Won’t happen. Edmonton wouldn’t do it unless…
I’m guessing from us, at least Cally or Dubi, our 1st rounder, and a top prospect like a Stepan/Kreider/McDonagh.

Not even worth discussing.

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 9:08 AM EDT reply actions

can i flip that and say Gabby for their 1 and magnus paajarvi-svensson? that would be amazing.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions

hmmm...

Master of the squeegee

by FreeBradshaw on Mar 17, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions

It would cost us more than that probably

I’m going with Staal or Del Zotto+Callahan or Dubinsky + Kreider or Stepan or Grachev + first rounder

by Wake Up Theo on Mar 17, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions

To clarify, all I’m saying is that it ain’t happening

by Wake Up Theo on Mar 17, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions

So - would you actually make that trade?

Let’s for argument’s sake take just one option from what you mentioned:

Staal/Dubinsky/Stepan/2010 1st round pick

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by dbmaven on Mar 17, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions

I think if you’re Edmonton you consider it. From all accounts Hall/Seguin aren’t at the level of a Stamkos, Nash, Crosby, or other top picks.

So if there’s even the smallest chance that Stepan can be as good as Hall, with the two players and only moving down about 10 spots in the draft, that’s a huge win for Edmonton.

So from the Rangers stand point, no, I don’t make that trade.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions

Actually, the more I think about it

The more insane that price becomes.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions

You were really starting

to worry me there for a minute…….

Stepan appears to be a legitimate top 6 down the road – and a natural leader.
Staal is your current and future shut-down defensive d-man who may (or may not) have some offensive up-side if they ever manage to shore up the defense around him. Leaving Dubinsky out of this – there’s no way I give up Staal/Stepan and what’s likely to be a Top 8 pick for the #1.

The most I would consider – Dubinsky or Grachev + Rangers 2010 #1 for EDM 2010 #1.
Even then I’m not sure I’d pull the trigger – but I probably would.

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 17, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Cut me some slack

Even though I’m up at 8, I don’t really wake up til about noon.

Just for fun too, the current NHLE levels of the two:

Stepan .527 ppg NHLE
Hall .557 ppg NHLE

Though Stepan’s are assist driven, and less likely to translate accurately to the NHL. For instance, if he came up and Torts (or whoever) gives him the minutes AA is getting this year.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

forgive my ignorance but what’s NHLE?

by GBK2 on Mar 17, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry..

NHL Equivalency

http://www.behindthenet.ca/translations.html

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions

thanks

by GBK2 on Mar 23, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions

LOL

Then don’t post until 1 ;-)

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 17, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t mind looking like an idiot. Good for the ego.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

:-D

Good man. Ego maintenance (shrinkage) is a good trait

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 17, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions

isnt that why we are fans of this organization?

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I suspect that

a different kind of “shrinkage” applies……

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 17, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

it would depend on where our 1st round pick is this year. if it is where we can get nino then i probably wouldnt but if it is say 10 where it is now i would.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

the dubi and our 1 for the number 1 that is. not the one where we sell the farm as well

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions

I would be on board with that…but seriously, if they’re even contemplating giving up the #1 overall pick…what does that say about the #1 overall pick? I mean, we know the draft is pretty good 1-10, but if somebody is even thinking about dropping that pick (and taking ours and Dubi for it?) then there’s definitely no bonafide #1 star. Like Smurf said, Hall/Seguin don’t seem to be Stamkosish level…so it’s just not worth it.

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

i love how stamkos is now a G-d again where when he had a crappy first 40 games last year he was a bust.

in juniors which is all we can compare them for

Player A 61G 58G 47A 105pts
Player B 57G 40G 66A 106 pts
Player C 63G 48G 58A 106 pts.

tell me again how the levels are that much different?

A-Stamkos
B-Hall
C-Seguin

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=719319 interesting discussion of the last 4 (assuming hall is this year) number 1 picks.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions

ISS just released their march rankings and i guess they agree they have Seguin 1 over Hall even if i dont agree with Nino 9th.

http://tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=314247

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions

If there is a god, the NHL GMs consider ISS god and Nino falls to the 8-12 range.

The Rangers are never that lucky though.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

So that’s eye opening. I never thought Stamkos was a bust though.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions

i didnt either but the rumblings were there i think he had like 14 pts in 40 games or so but end with approx 46

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I didn’t realize Stamkos numbers were that low was more my shock.

For some reason I thought he was in the 130-140 pts range his last junior year.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Stamkos is lighting it up this year….last year…not so much. BTW niether is Tavares

by earthworm on Mar 17, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

….WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

I would not give up Dubi, stephan and our 1st to move up 5 to 9 spots. Way too high. Lets just go with where we land….I think Krieder was a good pick at 19 last year. we are not making the playoffs so what we can be 10th at the highest?

by earthworm on Mar 17, 2010 12:32 PM EDT reply actions

if we miss 12th is probably the highest if we make in 8 we pick 15th i believe.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions

why 12th? we could easily fall to 3rd if we tank a bit.. look at the standings..

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Mar 17, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

because he said HIGHEST as in highest number.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions

seriously moshe you know better than to tell me to look at the standings i can recite them by heart at this point.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

thats true haha… and i misread the highest part.. i figured you meant the best but i stand corrected..

haha my b leetch..

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Mar 17, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions

it’s ok…im not sure we can get all the way to 3. florida and maybe even carolina the last couple times out dont give me full confidence they can catch if we even get to maybe 79 or so points. im hopeful on anaheim, tb, atl passing us and us at least getting to 7th. clb, and even the isles have played decent lately which could get us to 5. all of those teams are within 4 points of us right now. so 5 is probably where i target while hoping for even better.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Up to 6th gives us a chance to get Hall/Seguin, however remote.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

well if we lose our next two we COULD be top 6 by sunday night, lol.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions

agreed

Sather would screw it up anyway

by Wake Up Theo on Mar 17, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Nobody can really question Sather’s drafting prowess…….sans Jessimen, he’s done pretty good.

by earthworm on Mar 18, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions

correction…no one can question Gordie Clark’s drafting prowess since he took over the last 2 drafts.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 18, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Well -

ultimately, it’s on Sather’s head that the decisions rest. The good news, as you’ve we’ve been saying for a while, is that he’s getting superb information from Gordie Clark and the scouting staff. Doesn’t mean he still can’t f- it up. Just a bit less likely….

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 18, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions

why trade for it when we can just tank the rest of the way and get the 3rd overall pick?

seriously only edmonton and toronto would be under us. with the 3rd pick we could get seguin or hall..

so why trade players for a first overall pick when we could get the 3rd by ourselves.. seriously..

what would u rather have? 16th overall pick and loose in the first round.. 11th overall pick and miss the playoffs.. or 3rd overall pick and get hall or something

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Mar 17, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions

There’s like a 4% chance that Hall/Seguin don’t go 1-2.

At 3, you’re getting Fowler.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions

maybe toronto will pass us haha..

ehh i rather have a forward.. what would you guys do if we got 3rd and hall and seguin for 1-2?

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Mar 17, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Take Nino and be happy.

I would consider taking Fowler and trading another defenseman though, including MDZ but excluding Staal, to get a forward.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

can we trade mdz for mps?

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Probably not straight up.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions

boo, lol.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions

smurf r u hall or seguin?

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions

I flip back and forth, much like the rankings.

I like Seguin better, but when I was looking at it, I think wing is a much bigger need. I mean, since AA sucks at faceoffs, you could I suppose shift him to the wing and have a AA-Seguin-Gaborik line.

Hall-Stepan-Gaborik seems much better than that though.

I’d be happy with either obv. The nice part is, it only matters if we somehow win the lottery from a top 5 spot, otherwise Edmonton will make the choice for us.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions

im not sure about how stacked we are at center anymore and maybe that is a by product of watching torts throw lines against the wall but all of our centers of the future have at times looked better on the wing. Also left wing has Grachev, Kreider and maybe Werek in the pipeline. RW is a huge need for us imo cause other than gabby, cally i dont see much there.

I personally like positional flexibility so if you can play center odds are you can play wing. Also in terms of individual skills the only one where i see Hall as a clear winner is shot where i prefer the fact seguin is said to have a better hockey iq, more defensively responsible and potential captain material (still think stepan is the eventual captain around here).

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m making the assumption that by the time it matters, Torts won’t be here. Maybe that’s naive, but I can’t see him lasting 2-3 years more.

I’m looking at some combo for Stepan, AA, and Dubi 1-2-3, with a checking/PK 4th added along the way.

So that moves Werek to the wing, so that gives Grachev-Kreider-Werek on the wings, and again a 4th like Byers.

So Gaborik – Callahan is 2 RWs, the 3rd would then be the question.

So if you move either AA or Dubi to RW, you have a solution. Else I think wing is cleaner.

Is Grachev a LW?

Mostly I take your word for it on the draftees/prospects, you follow them more closely than I do. I can’t tell you a thing about Hall/Seguin other than their production and what you’ve written in the past.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions

that’s another reason i would go with Seguin though potentially cause if you look at that list we have what 2 right handed shooters on the whole list and stepan doesnt even like to shoot, lol.

Grachev has played LW, not sure if he can move right.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

i would look at it something like this:

Dubi-Seguin-Gabby
Kreider-Stepan-Cally
Grachev-AA-Werek
Horak is a future 4th line center.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

awesome

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Mar 17, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Ok. Sold.

Still love the idea of Nino-Stepan-Gaborik, which is also the more realistic goal than Seguin at this stage.

Nino-Stepan-Gaborik
Kredier-Dubi-Cally

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

nothing wrong with that either.

no takers on my trade of gabby for number 1 and mps…imagine the youth then, lol.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

That would maybe work if Bob Gainey or Sather were Edm’s GMs :-)

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

well i hear gainey is currently free and sather hopefully isnt far behind…

imagine cause our team sucks and nothing else better to do but adding seguin/hall, nino and mps which while subtracting gabby would hurt no doubt you add 3 elite offensive prospects. oh the things we do in march when our team will be golfing in april.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah I’d take that in a heartbeat, especially since Gabby, while great, is totally unreliable health-wise.

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Tambellini’s pretty reliable for bad deals.

Gabby for both is a no though.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions

As in…no, Edmonton wouldn’t do it.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions

meaning you wouldnt or he wouldnt?…i would throw in rozi, lol.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Assuming it's reliable

And I trust it is….Rozsival is the only reason there wasn’t a EDM-NYR trade at the deadline, Tambellini wouldn’t take him.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

i wouldnt doubt that.

would edm take gabby and kreider for 1 and mps?

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

There’s an aura that goes with the #1…I doubt EDM moves it without someone massively overpaying.

You know, god forbid they don’t get back enough and they trade a Crosby/Ovechkin level player (not that Hall/Seguin are projected to be, but if they exceed projections)

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

yea i guess besides the fan base has spent the whole season w the only upside being 1 of those 2.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions

For what though, Souray straight up or was there a Cogliano/Dubi involvement too?

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Souray was never involved in the talks.

It was awful from the Rangers perspective:

Gilbert, Cogliano for Dubi, Girardi and Rozsival.

Girardi wasn’t confirmed I don’t believe, there was a 3rd player though.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions

yea, that’s not good.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Allegedly (and really, it’s all alleged), Sather was trying to get Gilbert since before the Olympics.

All the Souray stuff was nonsense, my guess is the leaks were saying “high-priced defenseman” and everyone assumed it was Souray because he waived the NTC for the Rangers.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

i think smurf and i have had this debate before, i think i have with db as well, i would have to consider fowler at 3 because he is a great 2-way d-man

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

At this point I think we take the best player available, regardless of position. If it’s Fowler, it gives us room to move a few D prospects for a forward.

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions

i agree with that, the only flaw in that logic for me is a question of is the difference say b/w nino and fowler as big as the difference b/w whatever d we trade and the forward someone would give up for them. take sangs for instance, yes he was a 1st round pick but your not getting equivalent value for him right now cause he hasnt even cracked the nhl yet.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Totally agree. I’ll admit I haven’t seen much of Fowler, but if he is a more rounded, quality player than Nino, and McDonagh (admit I haven’t seen him at all), then I think we have to go with the more overall value, even if we do need a forward more.

Again, we’ll be sitting 10this anyway, so it’s a moot point. Once you leave the top picks where there are players who are head and shoulders above the others, you find the best to fit your needs and develop them.

Hopefully we get Nino wherever it is we wind up. He was impressive at the WJC.

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Should be 10thish~

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

if we do end up 10 then i take the flier on Kabanov if he is there because the talent is immense.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Take Fowler

He could be the “Beukeboom” equivalent for MDZ’s “Leetch”.

You want a crease-clearing hard-hitting “get the f-out of my area” guy? Take Fowler.

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 17, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions

If I’m taking a D-man at #3, I don’t want Jeff Beukeboom.

I want Chris Pronger, Nik Lidstrom, Brian Rafalski etc.

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

And yes, I own 2 Beukeboom jerseys :-)

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

55GP 8G 47A he isnt a no offense d-man dont worry

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Heh I know Fowler’s got offensive talent, just saying to dbmaven that a #3 pick should be a better overall thank the Beuk :-)

by Caerid112 on Mar 17, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

well he has offensive ability with what is said to be a beuke esque mean streak.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Which was entirely my point. :-)

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 17, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

i know, i got ur back, ;-)

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions

and I thank you for that

:-D

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 17, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ll settle for Doughty.

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by George E. Ays on Mar 17, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions

well if we want to really settle how about tyler myers?

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Myers is probably a good comparison – I don’t think he’s quite that big (without going to look up the stats) – but he’s supposedly that type of player.

At some point you could have a d-corp of
Fowler – MDZ
Staal – Girardi
McDonagh – Sanguinetti
Potter

That doesn’t suck. Blue line problems = solved.

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 17, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

yea he is only 6’ 2" not 6’ 7"

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions

myers might be 6’ 8", i forget.

we also have Klassen who anything that moves.

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions

OT but wtf was gonzalez doing at Seton Hall.

dudes punching other dudes in the balls during games and this, " BREAKING NEWS: SHU’s Robert Mitchell arrested & charged with and kidnapping, robbery, burglary & possession of a weapon"

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:32 PM EDT reply actions

holy crap

PeteThamelNYT: Among the things SHall’s Mitchell is accused of doing is “duct-taping eight people and stealing cash and personal items.”

by Michael Gleich on Mar 17, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

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