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Rangers Analysis: Getting rid of Redden no easy task

Update by Joe Fortunato: Before you get to reading this I want to outline something: like I say below in the post, this rumor is 100% unconfirmed. As in I saw it on twitter from a few places that claim to have sources. I don't buy any of it, I just used it because it served a good example. Ok, let's move on. Enjoy the post.

With the recent rumors flying through twitter that the Rangers and Oilers are closing in on a deal that would send Wade Redden, and possibly Brandon Dubinsky, to Edmonton for Sheldon Souray and--I would assume--something else; many Rangers fans are furious. Why would they trade Bandon Dubinsky?

The NHL is a much different business than the other professional sports. In the NFL draft picks reign supreme. When was the last time you saw a block buster player for player trade? I would have to say the Champ Bailey Clinton Portis deal. In the MLB and the NBA players dominate the market, with draft picks having little or no consequence, unless they are lottery picks.  

But the NHL is different. Both draft picks and players (by the way when I say players that includes prospects) are equally valued when it comes to trades. In fact we had a big debate on this last night on Rink Side Radio. With that being said the NHL is probably the biggest "give and take" environment when it comes to making trades.

The Rangers are not going to waive Redden, that ship has long since sailed away. If the Rangers were going to waive Redden then they would have done it already, instead of waiving Donald Brashear for cap space and moving the goaltenders so many times that I think Alex Auld is currently on the roster. The only way the Rangers are going to move Redden--and his cap hit--is through the trade market.

Click after the jump for more.

Star-divide

Here is where we get to the give and take part. And while this rumor is 100% unconfirmed (we don't want anyone following our leads again, to tell everyone we were wrong, even though we were right), it serves as a good example. The Rangers would be giving up Brandon Dubinsky in order to remove Redden and his contract.

Here is the big secrets that seems to elude Ranger fans, probably because they don't want to think about it. No team is going to trade a 7th round pick for Redden. No team is going to give some prospect who probably won't even be in the AHL next year for Redden. Yes, a 7th round pick and an ECHL prospect seem very insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but that's not the point.

Redden isn't even really the problem. There are probably teams out there that can use a veteran defenseman on their blue line. It's his contract. Why would a team give up anything for a guy who is going to hold their cap space at ransom for the next 4 years at 6.5 million per?

The only way a team is going to pull the trigger is if the Rangers sweeten the deal. Dubinksy would be a tough loss to swallow. Personally I value him higher than Ryan Callahan, but that's just me. But Redden's contract is harder to swallow, and if you think it's bad now just wait a year or two; it will get worse I guarantee you.

So again, to be the voice of reason as DBMaven always says, in order to move Redden the deal with have to be sweet. Probably very sweet. In the short run it might hurt, and if the player (whoever they might be) blossoms into a fantastic player then it might also hurt in the long run. But such is the price of a mistake, especially when management sticks their heads in the sand and does nothing about it. Let's hope it's lesson learned for Glen Sather. No, let's pray it is.  

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Comments

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I’ve never been a fan of Dubinsky so I would trade him for any center than will score more than 14 goals. Trading him along with Redden would be a godsend IMO.

by Greg Caggiano on Mar 2, 2010 11:32 AM EST reply actions  

Dubinsky's numbers are actually awesome this year though

13 goals and 18 assists for 31 points in 49 games isnt bad. He is on pace for about 43 points in 69 games, which is a big increase for him.

I have always liked what Dubinsky has brought to the table, not to say that I don’t love Callahan but I think offensivley Dubinsky out matches him.

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

by Joe Fortunato on Mar 2, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually – it’s Eddie (The Mouth) who tagged me as “the voice of reason”.

As you know, I disagree with your assessment. And I’ve posted it in any number of places, both here and in other forums, over the last couple of weeks.

In brief – the precedent exists by virtue of what Washington did with Michael Nylander.
Additionally, why send him (with a sweetened “pot”) to Toronto or Edmonton or (pick a team) when you already know that THEY are going to demote him?

All “it will never happen” because of (Sather, Dolan, blah blah pick your excuse) is just as much conjecture as me saying it can happen.

Note – I’m not saying it WILL happen.

I only lay out the case, and the supporting arguments and precedents (Like Nylander) as to why it SHOULD happen.

In the Salary Cap era, trading away any of the valuable 3 “P’s” (players, prospects, picks) to unload a mistake is the height of arrogance and stupidity.

Oh, wait.

We’re talking about MSG, and the Rangers.

Sigh. You win. I give up. All the logic in the world gets thrown out the door……

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 2, 2010 11:39 AM EST reply actions  

Incidentally it's kinda my point DB

If Sather was going to bury Redden in the minors he would have done it already. The Rangers have been up against the cap, looking for moves to relieve them of some space and have made othe rmoves.

The Matt Gilroy send down was one of them. The merry go round with Johnson and Zaba was another. The Brashear waive, the Kotalik trade. Everything points to making cap space.

Like I said in the beginning of the post, I WANT them to waive him, but I just don’t see it happening.

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

by Joe Fortunato on Mar 2, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

The clincher is really the last line of my post……. ;-)

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 2, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

so instead of wasting talent to dump, fire sather and hire someone who will admit sather’s mistake and dump redden in hartford. also wont happen, but still better.

by mleetch352 on Mar 2, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

MOVING DUBI WILL BE A MISTAKE

Here is a young developing player who is getting better every season. Hes bound to become a quality player that will help this team out especially when we start playing all the grachevs, kreiders,stepans, etc. He is homegrown talent, something we have been dying for, and just because he hasnt blossomed as quickly as crosby,ov, richards, carter,malkin,etc. doesnt mean he wil be a bust. Remember he wasnt a 1st rd pick. Look at semin. he never had allstart numbers his first couple seasons. A few years 4+ later he is producing like an allstar around good young players. We need to keep dubi and cally and let it play out. having redden and his salary sucks, but i think at this point i would rather trade away redden with a draft pick or 2(yes i would give up a 1st rd pick). We have depth and we can always add someone good through free agency or a trade instead of drafting them.

by polishBLUE on Mar 2, 2010 11:49 AM EST reply actions  

I agree with you

I think Dubinsky is something special. Let’s see if the Rangers Brass agrees with us

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

by Joe Fortunato on Mar 2, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't hate Redden

it isn’t his fault he is over paid. Yeah he could be/should be playing better, but whatever.

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

by Joe Fortunato on Mar 2, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly the point i would make. people bash dru and redden and even rozi for their awful deals but not their fault sather was a moron who vastly overpaid them.

by mleetch352 on Mar 2, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

i personally dont bash drury because he plays with heart.. i dont see that with redden game in and game out..

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Mar 2, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

let me rephrase…people who complain about them for the salary they make

by mleetch352 on Mar 2, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Special is excessive

But he has a chance to be a really solid top 6 forward. He pretty much is already, but as has been discussed, the consistency is missing.

You give him for young, established top 6 forwards, and not much else. IMO

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Mar 2, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

WAIVE SATHER

This move only makes sense if we send Sather back to Edmonton too. Honestly. Does ANYBODY have any faith in this guy? Can ANYBODY honestly say that they don’t expect him to do the EXACT same thing this summer? Trust me, he will only use any savings in cap room on another grossly over-priced free agent this summer and we will be in the exact same position next year.

by Twigs on Mar 2, 2010 11:59 AM EST reply actions  

Maybe we can trade Redden for Malik

We would still get pissed off the same, just for less cap space

by stonecoldcory on Mar 2, 2010 12:01 PM EST reply actions  

I’d even take Tom Poti and his $3.5mm salary/cap hit back – and that’s a really scary thought.

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 2, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Who do you think Ranger fans disliked/hated/wanted dead more?

Poti
Malik
Redden
Roszival

by stonecoldcory on Mar 2, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I hated Poti for 2 reasons.

1, we traded away Mike York for him. If you don’t remember Yorky, he was a quick little guy who could score some goals (I think he had high 20s his rookie year and was part of the FLY line with Lindros and Fleury). He was a tenacious guy, sort of like Cally was. I hated losing him, especially for Poti.

2. We had to pair Poti with Leetch because Poti was just that bad, and it hurt Brian’s game because he had to cover up Poti’s stupidity. Poti went out there with his fishing pole (he used to play with Chara’s sticks) but never caught anything. I remember Sather saying ’he’s a special player’. Yup. Special-Ed.

Malik…sort of like Brianna Boyle, both big men who were afraid to use their size. If you’re gonna be that big and not hit anything, go play in some YMCA basketball league please.

Redden…what can you say. The most indifferent man I think I’ve ever seen. He’s like a zombie on the ice sans brain-eating (coke-sniffing zombies…I’m working on the movie rights as we speak). Granted, any dumbshit would’ve signed that contract, so it’s not all his fault. But I don’t think the man would be any different if he lived in a box under a bridge or in a luxury estate in the Cayman Islands. Totally lobotomized.

Roszi isn’t that bad, though the occasional brain-fart doesn’t help. He has the potential to be much better-he’s got a great shot, but doesn’t use it, can pass the puck, but doesn’t see #68 anywhere and gets jazz-hands and gives it away.

Poti’s gotta be #1 though. Especially now that he can attribute his success to being able to throw the puck in the general vicinity of Semin/Ovechkin/Backstrom and get points.

by Caerid112 on Mar 2, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not like York blossomed into a really good player and is having a great career

His best year was his rookie year playing on a line with Messier. And to his credit Poti was coming off a productive year for Edmonton and not to mention playing for Team USA…………….but I do hate Poti…lol.

by giantsNYrangers on Mar 2, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah he fell off the planet after he went to Edmonton.

But Poti…just wanted to throw peanuts at him :-)

by Caerid112 on Mar 2, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

And I’d STILL take POTI and his $3.5mm cap back over Redden. Even if he made me as crazy as he did when he was here. Even if he still makes the same stupid plays he’s making in Washington right now. Even if he were just a peanut target.

Redden has most or all of the Poti faults, with the additional handicap of an extra 3mm in annual cap hit.

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 2, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, that’s a given. Doesn’t mean I like him :-)

by Caerid112 on Mar 2, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

There are a few missing from earlier days…. ;-)

From that list – and maybe it’s the recency effect – Redden.

BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"

by dbmaven on Mar 2, 2010 12:10 PM EST reply actions  

Well, right

I meant within the past 5 years or so.

by stonecoldcory on Mar 2, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

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