Rangers Analysis: Tortorella Needs To Grab Rangers By The Horns
Sometimes losses are good for a team. Sometimes they wake the players up, remind them that their egos are too big, or even show them some of the things that they are doing right. The Rangers have an opportunity to do that after last night's loss to the Pittsburgh Penguins. Except the Rangers aren't going to be able to do it on their own, John Tortorella is gonna have to.
When he was named head coach of the New York Rangers, many fans, myself included, were ecstatic about two main factors; his offensive system and his ability (and willingness) to hold players accountable for their actions. Ranger fans were excited to finally see guys like Wade Redden, Michal Rozsival, Chris Drury, and any other underachieving veteran you can think of riding pine for games at a time. For whatever reason, this transition never took root.
Instead we got a new "hybrid" Tortorella. Yes, we still got the scuffles with reporters, public, profanity laced, on air explosions, and embarrassing incidents with opposing teams fans. We still see the eruptions of fury on the bench, the "heavy hand" with ice time for the first line, and the consistent (sometimes to a fault) use of Henrik Lundqvist.
We have also seen player benching, except not who you would expect. Yes, Redden and Ales Kotalik were benched for a few games each, but aside from them, the veterans seemed to get a free pass. Instead Enver Lisin, Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Higgins, Michael Del Zotto and even Marian Gaborik have seen ice time taken away. So why not Redden, Roszival, or Drury (no, his two shift 4th line appearance doesn't count).
Join me after the jump for more.
I don't care that Redden played a pretty good game last night, I don't care that he had an assist and was a plus one on the night. His penalty was a penalty. I don't care if you think it was a soft call, or a bad call, or whatever; his stick shouldn't have been on Evgeny Malkin's hands like that, especially in overtime. Redden is a veteran, he knows the situation he is in, he took a stupid penalty, and the Rangers lost the game because of it.
I don't care that they were out-played all game, I don't care that the game shouldn't have gotten to overtime. The game did get to overtime, and Redden needed to know the situation he was in. Now is the game Redden's fault? Obviously not entirely, but his penalty was one of the key factors to losing a point last night, that has to be punished, Redden must be held accountable.
If Tortorella punished Redden after yesterday's blunder, it would send an great message to this team. You don't get lazy, you don't take stupid penalties, and you don't jeopardize a much needed win. The Rangers can't afford to lose games like the one they lost last night, especially at this stage in the season.
This needs to be a jumping point. Tortorella needs to establish that incidents like the one Redden committed last night, can't happen without consequence. Lisin is no longer on the team, so he can no longer be the only player Tortorella punished, it has to extend to everyone else. I would have written this article no matter who committed that penalty, even if it was Gaborik, from this point forward laziness can not be an problem on this team.
This idea might be unconventional, this idea might draw me some bad "press," but I can handle it. The Rangers need to understand the importance of these games. And veteran guys like Redden need to know what they can't do on the ice. Redden needs to be smarter there, but most importantly every player needs to be smarter in those situations; and making an example out of Redden (only because he was the once who took this particular penalty) will send a positive message to this team.
Thoughts?
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85 comments
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Comments
You already know what I would do with Redden.
And so does everyone else who reads here regularly.
;-)
Now – back to reality.
Ain’t gonna happen.
He won’t be benched. They’re fighting for the absurd 8th playoff position (and maybe even higher!!) – and they need the guy with “The best first pass in the game” on the ice – at least that’s clearly what Sather thinks.
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"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"
*
TM on that, and Hat Tip/Stick Tap to Jim Schmiedeberg.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"
Best first passer in the game db, you know it.
Our number 1 guy.
7th seed! 7th!
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Mar 5, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
that wasn't a penalty
I actually feel bad for Redden. Not only is he play gross but also get gross calls too!
Gross!
If you get your stick and hands up in and around the hands you’re going to get called alot.
If you do it to an all-star, you’re going to get called every time.
Redden’s been in the league a bazillion years already, he has to know better. There was no reason for what he was trying to do, momentum was going away from the net.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
It is a penalty with the new rules. The problem is the refs are super-picky about when they feel like enforcing it. It was a cheap call in the sense that it didn’t come close to taking away a scoring chance and it was in overtime (Michelle was skating away from the net along the boards and I think his mates were changing). And as Smurf said, you do it to an all-star, or if you have a rep (Avery), or if it’s a certain team wink wink it’s going to get called. Even in overtime.
Marian Gaborik says he expects to play tomorrow for #NYRangers at #Capitals.
AGrossRecord
Marian Gaborik says he expects to play tomorrow for #NYRangers at #Capitals.
all is not lost?
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 5, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think Torts should rest him for a few more games, make sure he’s 100% and all that. ;)
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Mar 6, 2010 3:26 AM EST up reply actions
Redden should probably just get benched for the rest of the season. But like dbmaven said, that won’t happen. I’m still mind boggled by the fact of 1 shot in the third period. I was very close to turning the game off it was so pitiful. Instead, I watched exactly what I knew would happen in overtime, us not getting the winning goal. Every time I watch us in overtime we either lose or lose in the shootout. Terrible
lisin
Lisin isnt on the team anymore? i know he was put on waivers at the dealine and cleared…. but what was that next step after clearing. thought i saw him play the other night or last night.
He cleared waivers to give them the option of doing what they want with him. It was presumably a move made because Sather anticipated adding a forward at the deadline and having to move Lisin to Hartford for the cap relief, something that never happened.
He’s still with the team, and I wouldn’t anticipate him going anywhere.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
thanks for clearing that up. i was at the game and i was happy, but confused that he was playing
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Waivers...
Hey, can somebody please explain to me what it means, legally and practically, to put a player on wavers. I honestly haven’t been able to keep up with some of the rule changes over the past ten years.
Thanks!
voice
ps. I don’t even have anything to say about that pathetic third period other than it is a miserable sign going into the playoffs.
It means you suck
If you get waived by the Rangers. That’s the practical definition.
by stonecoldcory on Mar 5, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Waivers, the way I understand it, is pretty much a tool to get rid of somebody:
Anybody put on waivers can be picked up by another team. However, that player has to go through teams in order to be picked up. I think it may be the previous year’s draft order…or is it the current season point totals? But there is a procession of teams.
If you get picked up, whatever contract remains is paid in half by the original team, other half the new team (hence why we’re only paying Avery 1.9ish million on a contract that pays him 4m per season).
If you clear waivers (no team picks you up) the team is then free to assign you to wherever they want (usually the AHL affiliate, but there’s also Coastal hockey leagues that are affiliated with professional clubs). If that happens, you still pay the player, but that contract comes off of the salary cap books. If you come back to the pro team, your contract stays on the books (in the case of Lisin).
Hope that helps.
Close
If you are picked up on waivers, the team picking you up is responsible for the entirety of your contract.
It’s only on re-entry waivers (you were sent down, and are going to be called back up) that a team is on the hook for only 1/2 of the contract.
Avery cleared waivers, was sent down to the AHL, then upon being recalled, then the Rangers claimed him.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Too late to send any messages. The only effective message would be to banish redden to the Echl or to the Latvian hockey league.
KHL, where Jagr is.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Mar 6, 2010 3:27 AM EST up reply actions
The main problem is that the Rangers have no horns. We have a dog in the fight, but no fight in the dog, as the saying goes. And it’s not about just having a couple guys like Prust/Shelley who can fight, or a couple of wingers who will block shots and take the body. It’s a crippling lack of team-toughness that causes this team to lose, and to lose badly.
A major component of this lack of toughness and accountability (I think we’ll just attribute everything to toughness as an overall) is that it starts with ownership. Look at what the Knicks went through, and you can see that there is no accountability at all when a Dolan-owned team is poorly constructed, ludicrous contracts are handed out, and the team loses dismally at home.
This has obviously filtered through to the players. Now, I hate coach bashing when it’s the players who lose games, and the scapegoating done by GMs who like to shift the blame. And while I’m sure some of the player benching/AHL call-ups/ice-time is directed by Sather, most of it has to rest with Tortorella. His handling of the situation has been horrible. Joe said this astutely already-he’s benched, for periods, or games on end, younger, non-vet players, for singular mistakes. At the same time, vets who continue to make egregious errors every SHIFT, get a free pass, are never talked about after a game, and THAT…practice, attitude, and lack of accountability has infected almost the entire team.
If the guy making 6+ mil per season can royally shit the bed every shift, then why should ‘I’ have to make an effort. That mentality is where Tortorella has failed this team, because he’s allowed it to fester. If he makes EVERYBODY accountable for their play, then the players will begin to hold themselves accountable.
Also, nobody obviously knows how vocal a guy Henrik is (to me he seems more the quiet/locker room concentration guy than a vocal leader), but he’s going to need to step up his leadership. I don’t think there’s a player in the league that doesn’t respect the quality of his goaltending, and after a game like last night, well, he needs to have an outburst like Chevy Chase at the end of National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation. And then Torts needs to reinforce whatever he says.
Why? Why? Why?
Why are people on here still surprised by games like last nite? Why do people on here still think that this team is capable than more than what we saw last nite?
This is exactly what we are. A below average team that has its fate tied to its goaltender. We have no 1st line save Gabby and we have no #1 defense pair (save it on Staal too, he may get there but he is a #3 at best right now). In this day and age, you can’t expect much out of a collection of 3rd liners and 3rd pair d-men.
It doesn’t matter if Toe eff-ing Blake was our coach. We are not good. Period.
i completely disagree with staal.. and in my opinion prospal/jokinen can be first line players.
if u want to make an argument that staal is a #2 pair defensemen, ok. but 3rd pair, thats just foolish
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
- = high 2nd pair, serviceable first pairing.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Mar 6, 2010 3:28 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry, number 3 = …
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Mar 6, 2010 3:28 AM EST up reply actions
Staal has his ups and downs.
I do think some of his problem is that he’s paired with Roszival, Redden, and with the way he’s played lately, Girardi. Sucks having to worry about your partner all the time.
I think he needs to be more physical. He’s good positionally and usually is great with the puck in our own zone, but I’d like to see him clear the net more and get nasty along the boards. We need that.
Staal’s got the 5th highest Quality of Competiion in the entire league.
Of those top 5, Staal is the only one averaging more than 1 pt/60 of ice time, and the only one whose team is outscoring his competition while on the ice. (45-41)
Speaking of his p/60, he’s 13th in the league there too.
Not a #1 my ass.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
*among defenseman that is
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by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Any idea where Redden is along those stat lines?
by stonecoldcory on Mar 5, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
You really want to ask? Trying to get stats like that would probably be like asking the stat machine to divide by 0, and the whole thing would go into a full-on meltdown.
by Caerid112 on Mar 5, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Remember, this is even strength play.
Redden’s 5th/6 on the rangers in QualComp and p/60 (MDZ gets the easiest work and also is scoring the least, no surprise)
I sorted by minimum 20GP (probably should do ice time minimum too, but whatever, there aren’t that many sub 10min d-men)
Redden’s 136/221 in QualComp, 100th in p/60.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
damn… i knew he was a #1 pair, but i didnt know he was that high up there..
how much do u think hell want for a new contract?
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
3-4m. Depends on how long he’ll sign for. He can’t grab more than that because he doesn’t contribute much (if anything) on the PP, which is where the really high paid D-man* get the extra dollars.
*excluding the albatross twins of course
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
In terms of Tom Awad’s Goals versus Threshold stat, Staal is the 23rd best defenseman in the league overall, 14th in defensive value.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not to make an excuse for Redden, but explain to me how else you’re going to stop Malkin? Also, I don’t think it was so much a “lazy” penalty as it was a “tired” penalty. The D were exhausted, much of it their own doing, but still, I wouldn’t call it a lazy penalty.
I think Redden was doing something a lot of experienced D-men do and that’s use their stick to their advantage when they don’t think a ref is looking. Now, it came back to bite Redden, obviously, and he should be held accountable, but I don’t think he would have stopped Malkin from going around him otherwise.
Redden’s not a shut down D-man, so he has to do what he can to try to slow Malkin down there, and he had been getting his butt kicked all night. Yes, it’s his fault, but I think a “lazy” penalty is a bit harsh.
+1
I really hate ref-bashing but what bothered me about the call was its timing. In overtime you’ve got to let players scratch it out and I’m sure Redden was playing to the spirit of that protocol. It was an unusually strict call for overtime and if they were going to take that route I saw dozens of opportunities for them to hit the penguins tit-for-tat.
WTF?
Why does he have to slow him down? Why does he need to have his stick up at or above waist level?
Unless I’m having a faulty memory moment, Malkin had the puck on the side boards, and was skating towards the blue line in the offensive zone. As in – skating away from the net. Away from a scoring opportunity. Away from Ljunqvist? Yes?
Why would any d-man need to to anything other than shadow and play good positional hockey to make sure he doesn’t get a clear path to the net?
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"
hmmm...
It didn’t seem to me like toughness was the problem last night. I think we’ve gotten a lot better about that. At least our forwards have. Our strength, at this point, seems to be our gritty forwards and the excellent lock down two way guys like drury and cally. They’ve totally impressed me for a few months now. Without them, we’d have no basis for hope. Last night our forwards were taking bodies but there didn’t seem to be a coherent defensive posture…no execution on the breakout AT ALL. Icings and incoherent passes to the opposing blue line a few yards from stick reach. We’ve got to be tape-to-tape in the midzone…cmon guys, really. Passes into the skates and forcing the offense to zig zag for possession at the red line. We’ve got to be bip-bam-boom and out! All this scrambling around our own net is driving me insane too. So this is where I’ve been starting to point my finger at Torts even though I like him and have defended him in the past. The Rangers need to have a more coherent defensive strategy by this point. To bad we don’t have a Boomer to work with MDZ because he looked really confused last night.
d
I think MDZ may have been a bit rusty. He hasn’t played in almost a month and he is 19. I’m sure he’ll be fine.
by stonecoldcory on Mar 5, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Well, depends how you define toughness. When I think of team-toughness, it’s a concerted effort by the entire team to win the game, especially under adverse conditions. It’s being mentally tough, and making good puck decisions (not just icing it willy-nilly when you’re under pressure) and being in the correct position (not giving up odd man rushes to Mike fucking Rupp). It’s being able to bounce back, not curl up and die like they did last night in the 3rd period.
But you’re right about the breakouts. They’re horrible, putrid, pathetic displays. Our D-men can’t pass, and our forwards tend to fly the zone too early, meaning there needs to be a 100ft. tape-to-tape pass to do anything.
Send Redden to the North Pole
I was impressed with Potter in Ottawa. I think if the Rangers brought him up and benched Redden on Saturday there might be even be improvement on the blue line, as Potter seemed to make responsible decisions with the puck.
As far as Hank, the reason I have been pushing the idea of beefing up our blue line with a crease-clearing D-man this summer, is that I don’t want Hank to be a burnt out case by age 30. Hamhuis, Volchenkov, Exelby, someone with fire in the belly.
There was a fair amount of sloppiness with the puck last night, and some bad decisions on the rush. Yes, Dubi played well and got the goal, but there was a breakaway where at the last second he passed off to Del Zotto for no reason.
Potter has some fire in him. He’d be an upgrade on the blue line for that alone.
Everybody wants some crease-clearing D-men at this point. It’s pretty much become priority 1-A, 1-B being a top-tier center.
Volchenkov has to be top priority. After that, there’s Exelby (he’s fallen off though), but the 2 I’m looking at are from Vancouver, O’Brien and Mitchell, both UFAs. Not much offensive talent, but they both have size and snarl, especially O’Brien. Both + players in a good defensive system. I think Hamhuis will be too pricey unless we dump Roszival AND Redden somehow (I know, ponies and rainbows).
O’Brien/MDZ
Staal/Volchenkov (super shutdown pair)
Gilroy/Roszival
Can separate Staal/Volchenkov to pair with Gil or Ros to spread out the wealth.
If we had the money too pick up a pair of guys like Volchenkov and O’Brien this summer, that would be awesome. Just not sure if the money will be there, especially since we need to resign Staal. If not, and they just get Volchenkov, I hope Sather finally admits his mistake with Redden, demotes him to Hartford, and brings up someone who will be part of our future, whether it’s Potter, Heikkenen, or even McDonagh if he’s ready.
Given the choice between the two
I’d MUCH rather have Mitchell than O’Brien. O’Brien is playing 3rd pair matchups for Vancouver, so as long as we didn’t expose him to anything better, he would fit ok with the roster.
Mitchell might end up more expensive than Hamhuis, but he’ll matchup to other team’s #1, so it’s to be expected.
In all cases, I wouldn’t lock up these FA d-men to more than 2 years. They have enough defense in the system that we shouldn’t clog the spots long-term.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Roszi’s contract is expiring next season along with Gilroy’s, so there’s 2 spots. If those D aren’t ready by then we need to fire our scouting and development management.
Volchenkov’s young, so a longer contract wouldn’t be bad. In the salary cap write-up I did a few posts ago, I think we’ll have around 9m (IF REDDEN FINALLY GETS DUMPED) after signing Vol/Staal around 4m per. If we don’t land a top-tier center, we can re-sign Olli for 3.5? IF, that, for a year (or Prospal for 1 year at 2-3), and have something left-over for a depth winger and a good D-man.
I’d rather have Mitchell too because he’s a more skilled defender, but if we have Staal/Vol then I wouldn’t mind a cheaper D-man who may not be a shutdown type, but will have no problem cleaning up Henrik’s front porch.
The rest makes sense, but....
Olli’s getting 5 this year, and it’s not like he’s stunk since he got here. It’s wishful thinking that he’ll take a 33% pay cut.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
instead of shopping around for a physical d, why not try and trade up for Fowler. Theres speculation that hes dropped in the draft charts and i hear hes a mix of everything
You may not even need to trade up for him. But with the amount of D in the system, if they’re going to trade up for anyone it should be Nino.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 5, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
This isn’t football, the chances of getting one of those top picks is very low. I think Fowler is predicted top 5 after Hall/Seguin, which means we’d need to trade our 1st, maybe a 3rd, and a top prospect. For ANOTHER D-prospect. We have enough prospects in the damn system, it’s time to get them to the NHL level or just take them out back and shoot them.
well if the opportunity is there you have to take it, later picks this draft are going to be weak. Outside of the top 5, your getting AHL material players
Completely false.
One of the guys so many here are high on is Nino N. – and he’s currently ranked 16th.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/11784/iss_top302010_prospects_january/
Almost, if not all, of those guys in the top 20 will be NHLers at some point in time.
After the 1st round, this draft may be very weak. And the top 30 may be weaker than in years past. But they’re still going to be NHL players.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"
It just doesn’t really happen in the NHL IMO. Especially with rookie/AHL/Juniors salary limitations, picking 1-10 isn’t a burden like the NFL if there’s no almost guaranteed star player.
I’d rather be realistic and look into free agency and get an established player or two. I’m all for building through the draft, developing etc., but we have a world-class goal-tender IN HIS PRIME. At the rate we let him get abused, we better take advantage in the next 5 years to make a couple of cup runs, otherwise we’ll be back to square one. We have enough highly-regarded prospects that either are ready, will be ready in 1-2 years, or aren’t going to make it.
Great Article Joe
Tortorella felt the same way you did about the Redden situation. When asked if it was a "soft" call in his postgame conference, he simply responded with "it was a penalty". That being said, we know Torts probably spoke with Wade behind closed doors. Will he make his point publicly as well?
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Tort needs to grab
Giradi, Rozy and Redden below the waist and check to see if they have balls to protect the King..
Sorry to cast a random thought...
…but Antropov continues to tear it up. Man, it would be nice to have him in the lineup versus bloated D-men contracts. :(
"...also I'll brush my teeth and remember to turn off the stars at night and put the hyena out." ERNEST HEMINGWAY
Good stuff joey
since much talk is about our wade redden… For all of you Gmen fans out there, they just gave Antrele Rolle a Wade Redden contract… i officially lost all faith in every one of my teams management. Yanks,Rangers and Giants oh my =/
by louielounz1 on Mar 5, 2010 10:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Are any of you regretting the fact
that we did not aqquire Kariya and Tkachuk
by The Last Shall Become First on Mar 5, 2010 10:58 PM EST reply actions
Those guys are a little washed up. What you could have done, I dunno, maybe Del Zotto + Redden for Visnovsky. Rangers have a higher GA than I’d have thought, one that needs to be lower if they can’t score goals.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Mar 6, 2010 3:32 AM EST up reply actions
you would trade Del Zotto??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? probably the player with the most potential on this team, he is going to be an allstar someday hands down.
by CrazyRangerFan on Mar 6, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Of course he’d trade MDZ.
He’s a CAPS fan.
BlueshirtBanter - beating up reporters at bus stops since 1994
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right......"
Sentiment seems like you want postseason now. Visnovsky is only 31, if I remember correctly, so he’s still pretty good. He’ll get Redden off your hands and can probably be repackaged for someone else. I was thinking of what Burke said about taking bad contracts if a prospect or pick game with it.
Admittedly, I don’t know much about Del Zotto, besides that he had a really hot start and not much since.
CИДHИЙ KPOCБИЙ: АЛEKCAHДP OBEЧKИH, OH CEЙЧAC TBOЙ OTEЦ
by red army line on Mar 6, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Visnovsky is 34. Del Zotto is 19.
So no, you don’t trade the kid that’s here for a guy past his prime for a playoff push.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 6, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, sorry. Even though I’m no Rangers fan, doesn’t give me an excuse to be ignorant of other teams. Sorry, should’ve looked up your prospect pool on HF or something.
But your pool is deep, HF ranks it 2nd. Why not trade a youngster along with a bad contract for a decent guy?
CИДHИЙ KPOCБИЙ: АЛEKCAHДP OBEЧKИH, OH CEЙЧAC TBOЙ OTEЦ
by red army line on Mar 6, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
If Visnovsky was 25 with a reasonable contract, maybe. Not 34 making $5m a year.
Especially when they have 11.5 already committed to the defense b/c of the albatross twins, and Staal due a huge raise next year.
You can’t pay your d 50% of the cap.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 6, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Doh…yeah Redden would be gone, nevermind.
Eh,..I would maybe trade one of the kids not in the NHL…like Sanguinetti. Not the kid that is on the NHL level at 19.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Mar 6, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions

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