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Rangers Analysis: Weise, Prust, and/or Byers

I posted this on my blog, but I figured I would post it here too.

The Rangers, as they approach the 2010 offseason, will have a few difficult choices to make. One of those choices includes the curious case of Dale Weise, Brandon Prust, and Dane Byers. Each player brings a similar game to the table, but only one has seen significant NHL time to prove he belongs. With third/fourth line players Brian Boyle, Aaron Voros, and Donald Brashear already under contract for next season, and Chris Drury very quickly becoming a role player, the Rangers are looking at a few extra forwards. Unfortunately, none of these forwards belong on a team’s top-six. It appears there are only two spots available on these two lines. Those two spots are going to go to two of Weise, Prust and Byers. (For arguments sake, let’s assume that if Brashear isn’t back, that Jody Shelley will be, leaving the same number of open spots.)

Starting with Dale Weise, the only player of the trio under contract for next season, has never played an NHL game in his career. Still on his entry level contract at a $700k cap hit, Weise was called up briefly at the end of last season, only to sit in the press box watching the Rangers miss the playoffs. The 2008 fourth round pick put up 50 points (28-22) in 73 games with Hartford this past season, adding 114 PIMs to his point total. He is a prototypical power forward in the AHL. Those who watch him on a daily basis say that the winger is ready for the NHL. He may not put up 28 goals, but he would be able to skate with the pros and hold his own as a grinder. Weise, to the Rangers, represents a cheap, somewhat versatile bottom-six forward who may or may not succeed at the NHL level. What Weise has working for him is the fact that he is signed, a RW (which the Rangers severely lack), and that coach John Tortorella is on the record saying he wishes he could have found a spot for him to play. What he does not have going for him is that he does not have to pass through waivers, and he is unproven at the NHL level.

Star-divide

Next on this list is Brandon Prust, the only player of the trio to find success at the NHL level. Prust, an RFA who was a cap hit of $500k last season, was acquired by the Rangers in the Olli Jokinen trade. In the 26 games he played with the Rangers, Prust was a pleasant surprise, netting 4 goals, 5 assists, and 65 PIMs after the trade. What Prust represents to the Rangers is a young, gritty winger who is not afraid to drop the gloves with anyone in the NHL. Prust serves a purpose on any teams 4th line, as he has proven he can skate and chip in a few goals here and there. Prust is also a very cheap option for the Rangers to put on a bottom-six forward line. However, Prust is due a raise from his $500k salary. With the Rangers in dire salary cap straits, Prust may find himself being a cap casualty, even at a minimal raise. As long as Prust does not ask for more than Weise, he should find himself in Ranger blue next season.

The last on this list is the curious case of Dane Byers. Byers, an RFA this season who was a cap hit of $500k last season, was drafted by the Rangers in the 2nd round of the 2004 draft. Prust has played just 6 NHL games, netting 1 goal and 31 PIMs (all 31 coming from his 5 games this season). Although he was drafted in the 2nd round, Byers has failed to crack the NHL roster in each of the past three seasons. This past season in Hartford, Byers put together a respectable line of 26-26-51, with 100 PIMs in 76 games. The 24 year old winger may actually find himself at the bottom of the depth chart amongst this trio. Byers would also come cheap, and would probably be the cheapest of the trio, which works to his advantage. Much like Weise, Byers is still unproven at the NHL level, but represents a bottom-six forward with size and some goal scoring ability. Unfortunately for Byers, Weise may have passed him on the depth chart this past season.

All signs point to Dale Weise being put in the position of having a roster spot for him to lose come training camp. He has the coach on his side, and has the distinct advantage of actually being signed heading into next season. Prust, being the only player of the trio with successful NHL experience, has history on his side (a strong finish to last season doesn’t hurt either). If he comes relatively cheap, it is a fair assumption that he will be back in blue next season. If you had to create a depth chart from these three guys, it would generally be Weise-Prust-Byers, or Prust-Weise-Byers. The common theme here is that, unfortunately, Dane Byers could find himself as the odd man out. With the glut of bottom-six forwards signed, the Rangers are going to have to make a tough decision when it comes to these three forwards. It is possible that all three are re-signed, but chances are slim that all three will find themselves as a member of the Rangers come opening night in October.

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I’m not so sure Weise has the upper hand. I think he needs to earn it in camp. Torts prefers the guys who have experience vs youngsters with potential. I think Weise starts in Hartford.

by jets47 on May 19, 2010 11:10 AM EDT reply actions  

This is a no brainer

Prust will be on the starting roster next season. There’s a reason the Rangers went on a roll the final 10 games of the season. Prust was a major reason why. I think he should be on the 3rd line with Drury and Avery.

Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev.
The core of the 2014 Stanley Cup winners!

by 76 Blueshirt on May 19, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

Blunter than Sather's Cigars....

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on May 20, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

I Am HockeyMan!!

"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.

by Danz10 on May 20, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd have to choose both Weise and Prust

I suspect that Byers will be discussed in a package where something will need to be done.

I Am HockeyMan!!

"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.

by Danz10 on May 19, 2010 11:26 AM EDT reply actions  

I would have to go with Weise and Prust too. Weise looks like he packs more of a scoring punch than Byers, and Prust has proven he can play at the NHL level, whereas Byers has not yet.

I think Byers gets packaged somewhere at the draft. But hey, maybe we can luck out and Voros gets packaged somewhere, and all three wind up on the roster next year.

by Dave Shapiro on May 19, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Weise and Byers

They play different style. You can’t judge a player solely by their AHL stats. Weise will give you a Ryan Callahan type while Byers will give you a guy who can be a front of the net specialist. If you look up and down our roster we don’t have a guy outside Chris Drury who has somewhat of a scoring touch and is effective at creating traffic in front of the net. I think if we could add Byers to the 2nd PP unit, and park him in front of the net, there would certainly be a more effective unit.

by jets47 on May 19, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice analysis. I would like to see them all on the Rangers next year, with Shelley staying as well and ditching Avery to open up a spot.

by Kmp on May 19, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

getting rid of avery to keep weise and byers?

im not for that

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on May 20, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Byers was made Captain in Hartford for a reason, the organization likes him.

by Kmp on May 19, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I like what he brings to the table, but I fear that with the logjam of bottom tier forwards, he may find himself the odd man out. I would prefer to see a fourth line of Prust-Boyle-Byers, and see Weise on the third line with Avery and Drury, which Shelley rotating in as necessary (in this scenario, Brashear and Voros are gone).

by Dave Shapiro on May 19, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

you could keep Shelley as the odd man out, makes sense, but he jelled well with Prust.
Dubi-Weiss-Gabby
Byers-AA-MZA
Dru-EC-Weise
Shelley-Dupont-Prust
Yeah Byers on 2nd looks like a stretch, but AA plays better with at least 1 banger on his line, Byers is a garbage guy around the net. Dupont making the team might be a stretch as well, but he a tough physical kid who plays hard and Boyle cant be much better. The team isnt going to do much better than last year so play kids and let em sink or swim.

by Kmp on May 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

And

you cut Callahan and Avery? Don’t think that’ll work.

by Broheem NJ on May 20, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

lmao go figure

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on May 20, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats because I dealt him and Avery for Weiss.

by Kmp on May 23, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure you could get someone to take Avery, Boyle wont get you the 3rd they gave up, cant see Lisin sticking around, Torts likes Vinny so who knows, Joker isnt coming back (though I think if you threw him on LW and let him shoot he could still score 30), you might get a 2nd or 3rd for Girardi, maybe a 4 for Gilroy. Bring up Potter, Sangs and Heikkinen(bet he would stay if they gave him a shot. Play Henrik 55 max. My 09-10 wish list.

by Kmp on May 19, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

maybe I should just move to Hartford and get season tickets!

by Kmp on May 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

2011

Here’s how I see it. You guys are the pro’s so please let me know what you think..

MZA-EC-Gabby
Dubi-AA-Avery
Prust-Drury-Weise/Grachev
Byers-Boyle-Shelly

by l.whit7873 on May 20, 2010 9:10 AM EDT reply actions  

along with Kmp

you cut Callahan too? He’s the heart of this team.

by Broheem NJ on May 20, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

MZA is a right wing, not left. No thanks on EC. As others have said, you’re missing Cally. Take Drury and move him to one of the left wings. Weise would better serve the team on the fourth line with Shelley, and Byers will be elsewhere.

I Am HockeyMan!!

"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.

by Danz10 on May 20, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why bother?

Three equally useless players. Rangers need scoring, not more dead weight.

by cr61 on May 20, 2010 9:54 AM EDT reply actions  

pretty harsh judgment there....

…on 3 players who will at least give a solid effort every night and increase the Rangers ability to match up well with physical teams like the Flyers or the Devils. They also are inexpensive, which matters a lot when you have contracts like Chris Drury’s eating up way too much cap space. I’d take any one of these guys over Brian Boyle, who was useless last year.

Not only that, but Weise, Prust, and Byers will probably score more goals in a full season than guys like Lisin or Boyle if given the chance. I’d say that’s why you bother with it if you are Glen Sather.

Prole art threat.

by greifi griffie on May 20, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree

Prust was terrific since joining the Rangers. He forchecked, he hit, he fought, scored timely goals. Stood up for his teammates. He’s exactly the type of player we need.

Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
The core of the 2014 Stanley Cup winners!

by 76 Blueshirt on May 20, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

+10

I Am HockeyMan!!

"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.

by Danz10 on May 20, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree to an extent

Their importance is vastly overstated, especially when you can find dozens of guys like them for no cost at all. However, we do need some cheap players on that 4th line (or maybe 3rd), and might as well figure out who the best of them are.

by yellomellojello on May 20, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have a logjam of 3rd and 4th line forwards. and the reason is that our TOP SIX forwards are playing like BOTTOM SIX, and the BOTTOM SIX isnt rising to fill the void. Hence, you get a team with three third-lines…and no playoffs.

Blunter than Sather's Cigars....

by Jersey BlueshirtFan on May 20, 2010 10:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Why is everyone cutting callahan?!!

by Massi on May 20, 2010 11:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

MZA?

Quick question…

Who here feels that he will make the squad out of camp or start out in Hartford?
Just curious.

by Mike_from_NNJ on May 20, 2010 11:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Not I..

I think he makes the team.

I Am HockeyMan!!

"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.

by Danz10 on May 20, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he starts in Hartford. And quite possibly finishes there too.

by Laurie Carr on May 20, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

About time someone agrees with me.

by Dave Shapiro on May 22, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

VP-Dubi-Gabby
EC-AA-Cally/MZA
Avery-Drury-MZA/Cally
Prust-Boyle-Shelley
Voros

Staal-Girardi
Volchenkov-MDZ
Roszival-Gilroy/Sangs

Lundqvist
Johnson

dump redden in hartford.. let jokinen walk.. resign staal girardi prospal ec prust and shelley
sign volchenkov

than when drury and rozi are gone we can bring up some young kids.. mcd grachev stepan etc and sign a few guys to make it a real team

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on May 20, 2010 12:22 PM EDT reply actions  

No way we get Volchenkov!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no way that they can resign staal girardi prospal ec prust and shelley and than
sign volchenkov…The only way is by dumping Rozsival or Redden in a trade..That aint happening. Girardi is gonna be gone.. Hes not that great and can be filled with a kid like Sangs or McDonaugh if not now or in a yr or 2. Volchenkov is a top 5 defensive d man.. He will command a 4 mil or so a yr deal with a 3 yr contract………… Gameplan should be signing Stall for say 3 yrs 12 mil, Prospal at 1 yr 2 mil, EC at 1 yr 750k and Prust at 2 yrs 1.25mil… And maybe, MAYBE if we can, look at Colby Armstrong. But even that is a strech. But after all it is a horrible FA class this year. People just dont realize that the team we had last year could barely get it done. What makes everyone think that by bringing back the same role players will even make a significant difference. We need to clear cap space and only resign our kids to multi yr deals that include a high yearly salary. Jody Shelly??? REALLY? Ok he played good down the stretch but he is a 36 yr old goon. Id take Byers over him a blink. Let him walk.

In 94 I thought i could die in peace... Now I watch a ranger game and just want to die.

by RangerFan5 on May 20, 2010 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

if volchenkov is a top 5 defensive dman

and he’ll command 4 mil over three years… why are you suggesting we give staal the same exact deal? surely he hasn’t earned that kind of salary, yet.

"No disrespect to the batter," Figueroa said, "but tacos are good."

by inventor frank on May 21, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Defensively? Staal’s every bit as good as anyone in the league. You can argue he’s not top 5, but he’s certainly top 10, and worth whatever Volchenkov is worth in an open market.

The Rangers advantage is Staal is not on the open market, or he’d certainly command the 3/12 that others like him would be offered.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 21, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

and i suppose it doesn’t hurt that youth/potential is on his side

"No disrespect to the batter," Figueroa said, "but tacos are good."

by inventor frank on May 22, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Staal in not a top 10 overall defensemen,

i would definetly take Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger, Niedermeyer, Keith, Seabrook, Doughty, Weber, Mike Green, and Dan Boyle over him.

Not to mention Tyler Myers, Dan Boyle, Kris Letang, Volchenkov, Phaneuf, Kaberle, Regher, Bouwmeester, Erik Johnson, Josh Johnson, Paul Martin, and Ryan Suter all are pretty close to as good as him if not better.

Staal is a great defensemen, but he certainly gets overrated around here. Top 5? Really?

by Ahmad Bradshaw on May 22, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sigh...

Not overall. Defensively. Only defensively.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 23, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

And Josh Johnson, the pitcher for the Marlins?

I assume you mean Jack Johnson, who got absolutely murdered defensively this year.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 23, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

LoL

i’m not going there

Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
The core of the 2014 Stanley Cup winners!

by 76 Blueshirt on May 23, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

EC

The problem I have with EC is that he’s not a #1 center and he was only effective when playing on Gaborik’s (1st) line. I think if Vinny were willing to take a paycut (big IF) they should sign Prospal and let EC walk.

Lines of:

Dubi/Prospal/Gabby
MZA/Drury/Callahan
Avery/AA/Prust
Shelly/Weise(Boyle)/Byers
Voros

Swap Prospal & EC if Prospal won’t sign for a reasonable price tag.

by Mike_from_NNJ on May 20, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree

I caught flack for putting AA on the 2nd line in another thread. I also think Drury & Callahan have some Chemistry as do AA & Prust, which was my logic for my line combos. AA has the potential to be a solid 2nd line Center if he can find the right linemates that he feels comfortable on the ice with. I would start the season as I listed above but we all know Torts so I should probably reword that to “start the first GAME of the season”…

by Mike_from_NNJ on May 20, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

cap and team

Lets all be real here … we can offer our collective “wish lists” all we want. Fact is, the Rangers have dire cap problems, and unless there is some magic left in Sathers bag, it will remain that way. Trading away what we have won’t solve the problem. Until Drury, Redden and Rozsival are gone or restructured, the team is in bad cap shape. Sign Staal, Prust, Shelly, Prospal, and let the rest go. The Rangers also have a glut of Goaltenders, deal them to get anything avg. After that, there won’t be any money for anything to fill in the line up card. Trading away the future hasn’t worked for the Rangers, time to bring our own guys up, and go with limited free agents to fill in slots. Don’t get me wrong, there are a ton of free agents unsigned that I would love to see on the Rangers, but given the Rangers/Sathers history there, I would rather they take the chance on their own farm players.
 
Speaking of cap problems, personally, I’m truly sick of hearing/reading how much of a good guy Drury is. Now I don’t blame him for signing his outrageous contract, I blame the Rangers for giving it to him in the first place. At this point of his career, he’s only good for face offs and PK to block shots. His Leadership has been totally nonexistent from what we’ve seen the past 2 seasons. All we saw him doing last season was sit and mope on the bench, chewing his mouth guard. Meanwhile guys like Callahan, Prospal were talking up and down the bench, yapping at the refs, chewing guys out, and pointing thing out to the young guys. MDZ yapped at the refs more in one shift than we saw Drury do all season. If Drury is such a good guy, and team leader, let him restructure his contract to give the team some breathing room. We all know it won’t happen, so much for good guy Drury. Sadly, there has been ZERO clear leadership on this team since Mess. Sadly, Drury is under contract, with a no movement clause through 2011/2012. Time for Drury to pony up, restructure his contract or put in his papers and retire. Thanks for your service Chris.
 
Another cap problem is Redden and Rozsival. Again, can’t blame them for signing their contracts. As with Drury, Sather is to blame. They either have to restructure or be moved. As with the Rangers history, they spend HUGE money getting guys, who just don’t perform. Now that the Rangers are spun off from Cablevision, the deep wallet days are over. What the team is faced with is going to be basically the same roster as last year, minus a cheep face here and there. Resigning those who performed to some level is paramount. Prospal, Shelly, Prust, Staal. As is, the Rangers are a little more than 2 Mil under the cap. Sather can’t do much with that except hope to offload dead wood (Drury, Redden, Rozsival) and bring up new and cheep blood from Hartford. Christensen can only play on gabbys line, let him walk. Eriksson, let him walk.
 
Here is my two cents:
Prospal/ Dubi/Gabby
Callahan/Grachev/Avery
Prust/AA/Shelly (yes, make the bang line, the 3rd line and still let them bang, and chip a few in)
P.A./Boyle/Voros
 
On the D pairings: Find a way to dump Redden and Rozsival, bring up Henley (6’7/250) and Dowzak (6’5/230)
 
Staal/Gilroy (Staal likes to stay at home, and Gilroy can put up points)
MDZ/Henley (A guy to clear the front of the net and protect MDZ)
Giridi/Dowzak (should hold their own)
Forget Sags … he’s another small guy and a buck ninety wet. His time will come, no place for him on this team.
As far as MDZ and Gilroy. Neither are or will be Brian Leetch and Jeff Bukeboom, and nothing Torts can do will change that. Both are undoubtedly very talented. MDZ is like a buck ninety soaking wet, way too slow on the PP and plays scared a lot, can’t clear the crease and has a ton of trouble with most guys in the corners. Gilroy will never be a Bukeboom, no matter how hard Torts tries to make it happen. Matt can score goals, but Torts can’t have his cake and eat it too. The kid can’t be in 2 places at the same time. Torts wants him down low in the offensive zone, and back in his own end at the same time. It can’t be done. If Torts wants a big, banging, crease clearing defeneman, let Sather go get one. Pair both MDZ and Gilroy with Big Banging stay at home defencemen and both will put up points, as they won’t be playing shoot/pass and run back to their own zone all the time to avoid Torts rath.
 
I like Torts a lot, but I don’t think he is the coach for this team at this point in time. He’s a fire and brimstone coach, the total opposite of Tom Renney. Yes, he has a cup win, but he’s clearly not a coach to teach young guys and help them mature. At this point, let Sully coach the team as he seems to be both strict and fair.

by JustARangerFan on May 22, 2010 2:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Prospal/ Dubi/Gabby
Callahan/Grachev/Avery
Prust/AA/Shelly (yes, make the bang line, the 3rd line and still let them bang, and chip a few in)
P.A./Boyle/Voros

Where exactly is the offense in this lineup?

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 22, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can’t restructure contracts in the NHL. This isn’t football.

by Dave Shapiro on May 22, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know how you can say Drury isn’t a leader for this team. Are you there in the locker room? Do you know what is said in the locker room? Or on the team charter? Just because he doesn’t go up and down the bench chewing out guys yapping at refs doesn’t mean he’s not a leader on this team. Oh and by the way, you never chew guys out on your team. Thats not being a leader. It’s all about being positive and encouraging your teamates.

Now i’m not saying he IS a leader on this team because I don’t know what is said in the locker room. Or at practices. All i’m saying is you don’t know either.

Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
The core of the 2014 Stanley Cup winners!

by 76 Blueshirt on May 23, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

A team FOLLOWS it’s leader. Exactly where is Drury leading the Rangers? Where has he led them? Perhaps you’re not paying attention to actual leaders and Captains on other teams. Watch Hockey, and pay attention to the guys wearing the C on their sweaters. You’ll see they yap at the refs, and chew guys out on the bench, on TV. Perhaps your opinion of chewing out totally differs from mine. After Jagr left, Drury was given the C because there was no one to give it to in reality. Lets face it, Drury wouldn’t be a Captian on any other team, elder statesman, yes, but he’s clearly not a leader. The Rangers clearly haven’t had a leader since Mess, which is part of the problem, of the many on the team.

by JustARangerFan on Jun 2, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Henley and Dowzak? I love physical hockey as much as anyone, but maybe you should look for a different sport. Winning in hockey requires some guys who can skate, put the puck in the net and defend. Henley and MDZ!? If you think -20 is a lot for MDZ wait until he doesn’t have a Girardi helping him. No team can win with what amounts to one line and three fourth grade lines.

by dar9898 on May 22, 2010 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

If you think -20 is a lot for MDZ wait until he doesn’t have a Girardi helping him

Here’s the breakdown of MDZ’s +/-, for about the 10th time:

+8 in 5v5 situations w/o Girardi
-6 on the PP
-5 in 4v4s
-17 w/ Girardi @ 5v5

You’re right, I really can’t wait until Tortorella wises up and splits that duo.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 22, 2010 9:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Smurf,
So you’re saying he should go back to playing with Roszival and he will be a plus player?
Or he should go on a pairing with 30 year old Brent Henley washed up (washed up at the AHL level, not NHL) enforcer?

by dar9898 on May 22, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

No...

I don’t even know who Henley is. He’s irrelevant to me.

I’m saying that for whatever reason, the Girardi-MDZ combination got absolutely destroyed this year. So your statement of “wait to see how bad he is w/o Girardi” has no merit, since he was awful with Girardi.

That’s all I’m saying. But yes, he was much better with Rozsival as his partner, and if Rozsival sticks around, that should be MDZ"s partner, not Girardi.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 23, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

when will they wise up and put Girardi on a different team!

by Kmp on May 23, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, if you do the math....

Girardi was +15 this year when not with MDZ, which would be top 50 in the league.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 23, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is that a reflection on MDZ or does it really point out to the limitations of Girardis game? I believe its the latter. Girardi led the D in hits and blocked shots, looks good statistically and had far fewer giveaways than I expected. He is a big player that plays small, not a crease clearer, not a hitter(stats notwithstanding), not a passer, has played worse each of the last 2 years. Outside of when he is paired with Staal, he is constantly exposed.

by Kmp on May 23, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

The concepts of “big player that plays small” and “not a hitter” are relatively irrelevant to me, they’re quite subjective and thus quite prone to selective bias. Now with that said:

You’re right in that blocked shots look good, but also implies you’re in your own zone too much, which is bad. And statistically, hits don’t tell much, what with rink bias and subjectivity.

(before anyone goes nuts here…I understand you need to hit, I’m saying the number of such things has little impact on your win-loss. Case in point…4 of the top 6 teams in hits missed the playoffs, whereas 5 of the bottom 6 made it, including Chicago)

Moving on…..

Girardi’s Fenwick and Corsi rates (the ratio of shots for to shots against) are also worse without MDZ. (.476 and .481 together, .473 and .470 w/o MDZ). MDZ’s rates OTOH shoot way up (.530 and .535 without Girardi). So it certainly looks like Girardi is the one holding the duo down.

But interestingly, both Staal and Girardi are better off separated as well, both seeing a 3.5 to 4% increase in their rates.

So yes, it appears underneath the surface that Girardi is having a negative impact on the team. (Girardi is the only defenseman with a negative Corsi)

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 23, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good stats thx Smurf. I have thought all year he is the weakest link in a weak group. Staal the exception. I was a little surprised by his hit stats, its not so much the number of hits but the quality of them. A Dman that delivers the occasional big hit keeps opposing forwards heads up and reduces their ability to see the ice. The Rangers dont have that on D. Girardi also led the team in giveaways.

by Kmp on May 23, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the play of MDZ is actually most surprising to me. They see his -20 and assume he’s just awful defensively.

While yes, he had some notable hiccups, he played much better than that -20. Clean up the SHGs against, and keep him away from Girardi, and we might have something special in him.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 23, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to change the subject but....

TSN has reported that Anton Volchenkov is moving to Washington DC and prepared to sign with the Caps as a free agent this off season. Reportedly for 5 million dollars per.

Just thought i’d throw that out there.

Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
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by 76 Blueshirt on May 23, 2010 5:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Perfect compliment for Green, which is bad for us.

I am glad we’re not the one’s paying $5m for a guy who never had more than 19 pts in a season however.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on May 23, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not going to happen, according to Yahoo Sports. Both the Caps and Sens dropped out and think Volchenkov’s asking price is too high. Could be a spot for the Rangers to get him, but his number will have to be lowered by July 1st.

I Am HockeyMan!!

"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.

by Danz10 on Jun 4, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

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