Rangers Analysis: Simon Gagne Is A Risk Rangers Should Take
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:00 AM EDT
in New York Rangers Analysis
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PrintWith the Philadelphia Flyers suddenly finding themselves in their own version of cap hell--they are currently a hair over $2 million above the cap--they have made the executive decision to move career-Flyer Simon Gagne. The 30-year-old left winger has not only been a big part of Philadelphia's success over the past decade, but he has also been one of the heart and soul guys on that team. And now he is on the market.
The Flyers--who recently signed Nikolai Zherdev to a one year $2 million contract--are looking to trade Gagne and the one year he has remaining on his $5.25 million cap hit. This actually works out well for the New York Rangers; they can certainly use the extra scoring punch.
Currently this off-season the New York Rangers haven't made any big splashes. And while there are many of you who think that this season is going to be a "wash," that the Rangers are just going to throw this year away in order to get some more nuggets of gold in the pipeline closer to their Rangers debut, it's not going to happen. Glen Sather simply doesn't work that way. Sather is going to try to win, and he isn't going to just sit around and leave this team as is.
Join me after the jump for more.
Gagne would be a nice acquisition. The Flyers are apparently so keen on moving Gagne, that they admitted that they would consider waiving him if no one tried to make a trade for him. Under circumstances like that, their asking price can't be very high--especially if they're not going to be taking salary back in return (which they won't be). It would probably cost a prospect and a pick, maybe a 3rd rounder. If they demand more, walk, this is not a do or die deal.
From a Rangers perspective I honestly don't see how this doesn't work out. The Rangers would add a two time 40 goal scorer, and a guy who could pretty much be a lock for 20+ goals, with the potential to hit 30. Adding another player like that into the mix--along with other 20-goal guys like Marian Gaborik, Brandon Dubinsky, Ryan Callahan and Vaclav Prospal--might be the extra push that the Rangers need to turn into playoff contenders. Plus it's just another guy to alleviate some of the scoring pressures off of Gaborik.
Gagne also brings some serious playoff experience to the table. Although he is only 30 years-old he already had 90 playoff games under his belt-posting 32 goals and 15 assists for 47 points in those games. Gagne is the essence of class, and Flyers fans are pretty devastated that he won't be back with them next year. Gagne was the heart and soul of that Flyers team for many years, and there is really no downside to bringing a guy like that into the line-up. He has already proven effective in front of the bright lights of Philadelphia, so there is no reason to assume that he would clam up in front of the brighter lights of New York.
Although Gagne does have a bunch of upside his injuries are a problem. From last year to the year after the lock-out he played in 58, 79, 25, 76 and 72 games respectfully. Although those numbers don't look good he has played in 65 games or more in seven of his last 10 seasons. And when healthy Gagne is easily a 60-70 point guy. Adding a dimension that the Rangers truly don't have aside from Gaborik.
Honestly you can expect him to play around 60 games this year, but even if he doesn't there is no real risk here. If he ends up being a complete bust then the Rangers are only on the hook for one year, since he is a UFA at the end of the season.
I will say this again because it needs to be put into memory. This season will not be a wash when it comes to Sather and the rest of the coaching staff. So we may as well go after a guy who is a small rink but a high reward.
So go ahead, have at it.
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So, lets say Philly wants a Stepan caliber prospect, are you willing to give that up for a year of Gagne?
No
if they demand that then walk away,
But the price is much more likely to be something like Sauer or Williams and a pick
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Where did you pull that price from? Gagne is still a top talent, he won’t go for that little when the Kings are in the mix for him as well.
by Dave Shapiro on Jul 15, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Under those circumstances then it would be a good deal. But philly has like 12 defenders locked up so I would think they would want some of our forwards.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
At which point you would see someone like Dale Weise head to Philly, in this proposed value of prospect heading over.
by Dave Shapiro on Jul 15, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Right…Weise, Horak, or maybe even Hagelin might be an alternative. Or just draft picks, maybe utilizing the extra 2nd we have.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean when this guy is heathly he could score 30 goals, they will want a decent prospect imo
Since the face been revealed the game got real
In trade deadline terms they would
but realize that they aren’t taking any salary back, and they NEED to get rid of him. They literally can’t afford to keep him on the team.
That drivs his price down dramatically
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
On the other hand, there are several teams that would risk Gagne for the same reasons—LA, STL, etc. That drives his price back up.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
So we're about even then?
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d say so. NYR, LAK, and STL also all have deep prospect pools, so they can stay in the chase.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course not.
They’re not in a position to demand things though, any GM that’s paying attention knows they’re effectively forced to move him or Carter, so there’s no reason to offer anything substantial.
If Sauer + a pick or prospect like Williams isn’t enough, you walk. Maybe LA ends up giving up Quick or Bernier for Carter/Gagne instead, but you can live with that.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
Dave the Flyers alrwady said if they can’t move him they might think about waiving him.
They need to remove his cap space, they are 2 million dollars over the cap. The price is going to be much lower than it would be at, say the trading deadline.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
My point was that with LA involved, the price may get higher than Sauer or Williams.
by Dave Shapiro on Jul 15, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
and if it gets higher than Sauer or Williams
you walk.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I could see a Nashville in on him to, they didn’t break the bank for Lombardi. Nash with a heathly Gagne I could see them going to the second round of the playoffs
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Nashville has a self imposed cap and needs to sign Hornquist, I think (but my memory is bad). I think they’re done.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Joe, if the price is too steep forget it. But this is what makes the Kovy production great, if we act fast on Gagne and offer a 2nd round in 2011 and a 4th in 2012 for ex. Kings don’t get the chance to react because of the Kovy stuff.
by louielounz1 on Jul 15, 2010 1:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
LA’s involvement would depend on Kovalchuk, and then on whether LA is on the list Gagne will approve.
It’s entirely possible Gagne doesn’t want to leave the area, and that the 3 teams he’s allegedly talking to are all within, say, 200 miles of PA.
Combine all that with his injury history, and the Flyers are caught in a really tight spot trying to move him. They’re going to want more, but I tend to doubt they’re going to get it.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
And not just LA. I’m sure there are alot of teams willing to take him on since he only has 1 year left. He’s going to command more than you guys think.
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by 76 Blueshirt on Jul 15, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure there are alot of teams willing to take him
He has a NTC, it will limit the options.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Well…we all know that NTC’s arent that much of a deterrence nowadays. i.e. Kotalik.
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by 76 Blueshirt on Jul 15, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
A couple of differences with Kotalik:
1) Rangers weren’t forced to move Kotalik because of cap issues.
2) It was midseason and he was going to get press-boxed for the duration of the year.
3) Gagne has been a career Flyer, so probably has settled down quite nicely in that area and won’t want to uproot/be away from this family.
I don’t know that 3 is definitely true, or if he even has a family, but it is a difference than Kotalik, who has been bounced around a bit.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Good points but…
I don’t think Gagne is happy now that the Flyers have asked him to waive his NTC. I’m thinking he’s feeling a bit disrespected. I mean I definitely would. For a life long Flyer to be shown the door because of the signing of a Diva Russian player named Zherdev who hasnt earned a damn thing in this league is pretty disrespectful IMO. I’d be waiving my NTC and looking to get the hell out of town.
I mean this isn’t Roenick being asked to waive his NTC because they wanted to bring in a superstar named Forsberg.
Pretty sad if you ask me.
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by 76 Blueshirt on Jul 15, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
so wouldnt forcing them to make a deal with their hated rivals, US, be the best way to get back at the team that betrayed him?
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Thats a good point. If Smurf was right about Gagne not wanting to move out of the area then I could see him wanting to come here. I don’t think the Flyers would trade him to NJ because they are, year after year, the Flyers biggest competition.The Caps also. And the Isles…LOL there’s no way Gagne waives his NTC to go to that dump!
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by 76 Blueshirt on Jul 15, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s certainly true, I’m sure he’s displeased with the way this unfolded, but they were already talking to Gagne about waiving it even before Zherdev, they took on a butt-load of contracts. They’re at -2.5m right now, so even without Zherdev they’re over the cap.
That doesn’t mean he’s going to hold firm to his NTC, but it does likely mean he’ll still dictate where he wants to go.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
and if it gets to that point the Rangers should walk
like I said:
The Flyers are apparently so keen on moving Gagne, that they admitted that they would consider waiving him if no one tried to make a trade for him. Under circumstances like that, their asking price can’t be very high—especially if they’re not going to be taking salary back in return (which they won’t be). It would probably cost a prospect and a pick, maybe a 3rd rounder. If they demand more, walk, this is not a do or die deal.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I agree but by that information being out there, you have just created a market. Gms are saying thats all it would cost for Gagne let me get in on that. And before you know it there is 3 or 4 teams looking at what it would cost. If its a fire sale then it is worth exploring but I just don’t want to give up a lot.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I don’t want to give up first or second round picks for a 1 year player.
by CTrangerfan on Jul 15, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
it's not going to cost a first rounder
and if it does walk. But if he comes to the Rangers and stays healthy they can re-sign him, he is only 30 years onld. And he is a brilliant player.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Even if he has a good year, the only way I re-sign him is if he takes a pay-cut, which of course is counter-intuitive when he’s coming off a good year.
Few are worth $5m for ~60 games a year.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
oh I agree
it would have to be like 3 million a year, but it’s New York baby!
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, that may be the price. A rental Hossa + Dupuis got what, a 1st (or 2nd) + bluechip prospect + a roster 2nd/3rd line forward? Gagne should cost at least a 2nd.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s hard to compare those deals. Hossa was healthy/not an injury concern at all and a much better player than Gagne. He’s what my coach would call a “horse.” Dupuis is no slouch either. And Atlanta was under no duress to get a trade done.
Even so, 20 games + playoffs versus 60-70 games + playoffs (maybe). Gagne is a good two-way forward like Hossa, though not as good, but close, and let’s not forget that Hossa had a pretty bad reputation at that point. Gagne right now has a good reputation.
Atlanta didn’t want to lose Hossa for nothing. I do think the deadline drove up Hossa’s price a bit, but I still think Gagne should cost a similar amount (say Dupuis cancels with Armstrong and moves the pick a round lower, or moves the blue chip prospect to good but not elite).
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
There was duress in that they had to make the deal before the deadline or get nothng for a UFA
but in that case, there were many suitors for his services who were also pressed to make a deal at the deadloine for a playoff run.
Thats still too much
For a guy who is going to be a 5.25 mil cap hit and only for one year.
What happened to let the kids play?
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I'd consider moving Bourque
Ryan Bourque is small and has injury concerns. Gagne is signed to a short contract, and has some injury concerns. It seems pretty fair to me. Bourque and OUR 3rd or 2nd (Keep Carolina’s and plan on doing better then them) and it’s not too much to give up.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
But I am not Bourque’s biggest fan so he would be okay IMO
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Definatly – he has more upside the Sauer and, even if he only gets to the AHL, he will create a little bit of interest for that squad. Philly is in an odd minor-league situation where they were forced to move the Phantoms out of Philly, and now are playing in Upstate NY (Glens Falls) on a “temporary” basis while they are trying to get a NEW minor league arena built for them in PA – but funding/construction has hit so many snags, there is no timetable for the move. The Bourque name would sell some tickets, espically since this temporary team, relies more on attracting “Hockey Fans” then “Phantom Fans”.
Probably overthinking it some, but I don’t expect alot from Bourque anymore, so I’m looking for all the pluses I can find.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I definitely thought about Bourque, I mostly didn’t propose his name because of feared backlash (much like I just stopped including Cally’s name in other trade ideas)
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
well if I had to keep a small forward it would be Stepan, I don’t think a lot of smaller forwards is wise
Since the face been revealed the game got real
They couldn’t play 5-on-5 at all and had a bad forecheck. They rode a hot goalie and a defense that didn’t give up the ten-belle scoring chances.
You could say it didn’t hurt them, but going to the CF was a complete fluke.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but buck they have a lot of long term d men they would want a forward imo.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Bourque is a forward.
Talking Ryan, not Ray.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't even talk about Ray
Slats might be reading this and get some ideas
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d take Ray now over Redden.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s also Chris.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Now he is. Told the team today, though there were rumors before.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
wow yeah I thought you were wrong I looked it up. Who am I thinking about besides Stepan an under sized center???
Since the face been revealed the game got real
tell me this what would it do if we sign gagne do we win the cup. do we make the playoffs and get to the cup. is he gonna put us with the top teams no is he gonna stay healthy so. what benifite would we have signing him we be complaing that we have a sorry ass team as last year with a bewtter player if hes able to play the whole season. maybe if we were a contender and we needed that one player i would but with this team whats the sense signing him
I don’t like the idea but the arguement for him is to give some much needed scoring help to take pressure off the other guys in a nutshell.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Next year is not our year. We should only be looking at players that will help us for at least 2 years preferably 3 or more.
by CTrangerfan on Jul 15, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
WE all know that, but sather never lets the team tank, he always try to mishmash some wins together, and to do that he has to know we need another goalscorer
I’m not one who supports tanking. I would say no to trading prospects for a one year deal during a rebild.
by CTrangerfan on Jul 15, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Last year's team was a 20+ goal scorer away from being a dangerous team
Imagine if Higgins did what he was projected to do? We lost a lot of one goal games, and with less defensive eyes on Gabby that makes more space for him and everyone else.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup, an extra 20 goals gives us a differential of +24.
And every team since the lockout with a diff. that high had at least a 95 pt season, except for the ’07 Rangers (who had 94 pts)
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Fast internet connection + knowing where to look = deadly combination.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed 1000000000%
gagne would give us great depth. if he stayed healthy healthy we could have a 40+ goal scorer in gabby, two possible 25+ goals scorers in dubi and gagne, and then a handful of 17-25 goal guys in cally, prospal, dru. thats good scoring and well spread out. with our d (if redden is gone) and hank, we would be extremely dangerous
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
In a post of mine
I highlight exactly where those additional 20 goals will come from this year, without adding risking propositions like Gagne or adding any salary
yes you did
but your post was a guess to what player should be projected to do (if I’m remembering correctly), and while you didn’t go crazy you can’t be sure of it either.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think its more realistic than bringing in a 20 goal scorer (like Higgins) and hoping they produce. besides, they added MZA who should be that guy.
Besides, if the young players cannot show that paltry improvement I was noting, we need not waste anymore time on their developnment as they have “peaked” and they should become trade bait if necesary for a more talented player.
Gagne, a 40 goal scorer, suddenly won’t score under 20. I’m not sure if you’re trying to say that. It’s one thing to bring in, say, a guy who just had a career high scoring season with a career high shooting percentage, lots of PP time, and a regular shift with Crosby, then bringing him elsewhere, than a guy like Gagne who’ll still be a top line player with comparable talent and still have PP time and score lots of goals.
Also, your post was pretty optimistic.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
My line above was not related to Gagne
I think he will continue to produce, so long as he is healthy.
I try to be optimistic about my teams going into a season, you know it ain’t over till its over type of thing, while remaining realistic. That means i can expect improvement from certain players, a modest amount ,or in my expectations even trivial amounts and those predictions or expectations are far more likely than all the proposed trades and orisopects who are gonna step in and take over.
Philly was lucky to make the playoffs last year. 1 less Jokinen and maybe they don’t, maybe its the Rangers making that run instead. All you have to do is make it to the playoffs and be hot at the right moment and you can win it all.
The thing with Gagne, R.A.L.
that we have all been kicking around, is it seems like he’s gonna be the top or the bottom, and we’re not sure which end he will be. Concussions are a tough injury to judge. Some guys never come back the same again. GA Thingy is definatly sugarcoating our situation, but I think the concern with the rest of us, is how bad the concussions effect him . We’ve already been through Lindros and LaFontaine.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
He’s always bounced back in Philadelphia.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It won't be a top prospect
I’m not saying go get Gagne at all costs. I’m saying if the price is right, and it probable will be, then go after him
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe
During the 07-08 season I got him playing 25 games per cap geek
Since the face been revealed the game got real
he did
From last year to the year after the lock-out he played in 58, 79, 25, 76 and 72 games respectfully.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d be all for him for the right price. I mean the guy is only 30 years old. He can be a part of this teams future 5 years down the road.
If he stays healthy this year I would re-sign him. He’s a damn good player.
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Gaborik is too much of an injury risk according to some on this site, so a guy like Gagne who has a demonstrable concussion problem is an answer to the goal-scoring problem? That’s a lot of $$$ for someone who is at worst a 50-50 chance to miss at least 25-30 games in the season.
He can play, but Gagne is a much bigger injury risk than anyone else out there. Don’t sell that aspect of his game short.
Prole art threat.
by greifi griffie on Jul 15, 2010 11:43 AM EDT reply actions
he is a one yr answer to our scoring problems. at the right price he would allow us to be a deep competitive team next year while continuing with the youth movement in our system. not to mention the 5.25 mil we could use next offseason to either re-sign him or put to cally, aa and dubi’s next contracts. if the deal isnt too expensive for us, there is no real downside
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget the groin issues w/ Gagne as well.
Anyway, in a year most are writing off anyway, it’s worth the gamble, IMO. In the event he does miss 20-30 games:
a) His cap money comes off for that time
b) It frees up a spot for Grachev if he starts on a heater in Hartford.
Plus of course, don’t overlook that adding $5m all but forces Redden out of here.
I won’t be disappointed if we don’t get him, but he is a viable option.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
couldn't agree more Smurf
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok say we get Gagne, he scores 26 goals 31 assits 57 points plus 12 in 67 games, and he is willing to listen to a contract extension . If he has that year what is he worth a year and for how long??
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I would still say 3ish million
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
The most I would give him is 2 years, and no more than $4m per. He’s not someone I would keep rolling the dice with, he craps out too often.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
7 mil over 2 yrs would be acceptable for us
but im not so sure about him. that would gives an extra 2 mil to throw into the RFA pot next yr if he took it or the hole 5 mil if he walked
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
yes. 4 mil this yr and 3 mil the year after
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless either has a massive break out, they shouldn’t command more than Girardi’s deal.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
and if they do have a mssive breakout then we don't
need to re-sign Gagne
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
If this forces Redden out i’m all in!!
Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
The core of the 2014 Stanley Cup winners!
by 76 Blueshirt on Jul 15, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
No f&cking way Philly is trading him to the Rangers
No chance. Zero. Nada.
MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
agreed but its still fun to talk about
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If they have no trading partners
why wouldn’t they. Otheriwise they lose him for nothing through waivers, and then the Rangers still might get him.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
If he hits waivers, he definitely gets claimed. Only question is who will have priority among the teams that do.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
so why would the Flyers not trade him to the Rangers (if we were their only offer) and lose him for nothing?
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
No way those other 9 teams pass him up
by b4mv01 on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But the issue with us is we need a play making center to go with gabby. We can have all the scoring wingers we want but without a center to get them the puck how much value does gagne really hold? My suggestion is to go out and find that center first and evaluate from their on if we need/ can afford gagne
by b4mv01 on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Prospal between Gaborik and Gagne
would work. He could be pass first, and not have to worry about shooting all that much.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
gaborik had a career yr last yr. IMO we need scoring depth, i.e. another 25+ goal scorer, more a star to center gabby. even with a top center he’s not going to get much more than the 42 he got this yr
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don’t get why Gaborik needs a center. One line teams don’t win. If they add a 25+ guy, he shouldn’t be on Gabby’s line.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I think Duby should play on the opposite wing from Gaborik
If they add a guy who can score 20+, put him on the 2nd line for scoring depth.
MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by stonecoldcory on Jul 15, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
dubi-ec-gabby
gagne-prosp-cally
avery-aa-mza
prust-dru-boogey/supont/byers
looks pretty damn good to me
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, but without Gagne. Because we ain’t getting him.
MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by stonecoldcory on Jul 15, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
it was meant for this scenario… try and play along
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d love to see Drury reduced to a 4th line role and lesser minutes, but do you really think Tortorella would ever do that?
Gaborik had one of the best years of his career with a three-headed monster of guys who are not supposed to be top line centers. He doesn’t need an elite center to score [did he ever have one in Minnesota?]. I do worry that EC will return to reality this season, though and the team will be laden with centers of 3rd and 4th line standing (EC, Drury, Anisimov, Boyle). Sadly, though, putting Prospal on the first line with Dubinsky and Gaborik loads the team’s best three scorers together. Gagne would be a huge help on the second line. Otherwise, we continue to be a one line team.
If you wanna watch a team rebuild, buy an Islanders jersey
Honestly, they’ve been talking about the future down the LIE since the mid 80’s with no results. You have to try to win. That doesn’t mean throw the future away, but take some chances, and make the best effort to start the season competitivly.
Bringing in Gagne is a good step in that direction. Regardless of if you can or can’t resign him, and what it would cost, he can help us win games now. He takes pressure off the young guys, buries a few to give Hank a cushion, and helps spark an anemic offense. We have a top training staff, and they should be able to asses his injury risk coming in, and decide if it’s an issue or not.
I wouldn’t mind Demitra under the same circumstances. Take him on for a year (not at anything close to 5 mil – think Prospal money) as long as our training staff thinks they can keep him healthy. He’s had success with Gabby, and he adds some depth up the middle, that I think we still need.
Like it or not, and as much as we want to see him make the jump, AA is best fit as a third line center. Let him work on his game, and skating with his head up, against some more favorable matchups before we put too much pressure on him with the top 6. If any of you ever saw AA play in Hartford, you know what I mean about his game. He showed a great balance of speed and power, and he was getting some more confidence and that type of play was starting to show at the end of last season. Giving him one more year to blossom into a full time top 6 player is best for his development, and I think he will respond better to the jump later in the season. Plus, it’s not like your wingers change much from top line to third line on this squad anyway.
Finally, to everyone who wants wait for a better tomorrow – buy a lottery ticket, plant a tree, wish in one hand…, we should be aiming to have a winner on the ice this season. And these acquisitions make it do-able.
Like it or not, and as much as we want to see him make the jump, AA is best fit as a third line center. Let him work on his game, and skating with his head up, against some more favorable matchups before we put too much pressure on him with the top 6.
Agreed ideally.
As an argument though, Dubi and Prospal on his wing both can outscore 1sts, so they could be a big help on AA’s LW, if you want to force him to the 2nd line. Drury’s not really good enough to handle 2nds at this point, so I’d rather have the kid over his head (that could potentially surprise) rather than the older guy who mostly can’t do it.
It also gambles mightily that EC can do what he did last year and outscore 1sts while paired with Gaborik, which is good, but not ideal.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I was pushing AA to 3rd if we grabbed Gagne and Demitra – Demitra in the middle of Gabby & Prospal and EC centering a 2nd line of Gagne/EC/Dubi. That helps us with scoring, and up the middle, but it leaves us with alot of bodies in the press box.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh ok…that makes sense.
Moves Drury to the 4th with Booger though, which is a fate no hockey players should have to deal with.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Booger won't be that bad
And 7 million dollars buy some nice tissues to dry Dru’s tears. Still you put 2 wings with AA. Assume one of those is Prust – they showed good chemistry and AA needs opponents to fear Prust to hand out swift justice if they run AA with his head down. That leaves one spot for Cally/Avery/MZA. For me, a Prust/AA/Avery sounds the best – Avery being a skilled step up from Shelley. I’m not going to be suprised to see MZA start in the minors to get the feel for the style of play, but people will revolt with Cally as the odd man out – still I don’t see a better spot for him in the top 9.
Cally-Dru-and the Boogie man on line 4 seems odd.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right, Booger will probably be worse.
Yeah, Drury-Cally on the 4th line isn’t going to happen, especially not with Booger who’s getting 5 min a night. Prust would go down to the 4th and you’d have Avery-AA-Cally.
If we had Gagne and Demitra, then MZA could go down, sure. But without them, MZA should make this team.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t get me wrong, the lineup sounds good but what u are doing is essentially taking away minutes from the likes of mza/cally/AA & giving them to gagne/demitra. That just seems wrong
by Conway on Jul 15, 2010 10:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's not a hockey team, not a soup kitchen
You don’t get something just for showing up. If guys wanna play they have to earn their ice time.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a rehab center for injury-prone players either lol. Apparently demitra to khl so there goes that idea
by Conway on Jul 15, 2010 11:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No way we can even fit both in the cap, let alone would they get both
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 15, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Demitra wants nickles
But you’re probably right – Demitra should have gotten Prospals money if that was our move
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Although...
Prospal might be an interesting pick up for Philly
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re suggesting we trade Prospal for Gagne, I think that would be a bad idea. We wouldn’t gain any net value for the team and would lose precious salary cap space.
This whole article is about acquiring Gagne
If you’re following the thread on here, you can see that there’s been some discussion about who will play where, IF we made certain acquisitions. Earlier comments have been about what we would give to get Gagne. No one wants to give up too much of the farm for a player of questionable health for what could only be one year.
I was suggesting that Prospal, and his experience and agreeable cap hit, might be an asset that appeals to a team like Philly, who seems to be trying to position themselves to win the cup. If we brought in Gagne, as was discussed in this post, and Demitra, as was discussed in past posts, and in the current thread, Prospal COULD become expendable.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
But Philly’s not taking on any cap…even Prospal’s 2.1m So he’s out as an option for them.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I know they don't want cap
but they don’t seem afraid to keep every ball in the air as long as possible to get they team they want. If they think Prospal at 2.1 mil is a bargin, and they can flip out, or bury, another player, I don’t think they are afraid to do it. With Demitra off the market, I wouldn’t suggest moving Prospal anymore anyway.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Fish Sticks Jerseys make great kindling
Is it safe to say that all islander fans are gay fish if they like fish sticks?
Thank You Eric Cartman
Didn’t like the idea until I read this, I guess it would be good if we can get Boyle out of here and still have a spot for a prospect. This team looks alot deeper with Gagne here.
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 15, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions
We're not giving up on the future either
Just buying it some time
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
well that would depend on the package we give up, but in essence i agree
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I know I know
I have a way with words
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
yea i was thinking that too
giving boyle away in this trade would awesome cuz then we could bring up byers up…or someone of that nature
I’m not into the idea of another fragile scoring winger. I loved and hated Gange for fantasy hockey reasons, but I wouldn’t want to risk the offensive potential of my team by having the top two scorers I possess be made of glass.
but if he gets hurt we’re right back here without loosing any sort of major piece. if he stays healthy we’re well ahead of where were last yr and right now. its not too much of a gamble since we are attempting a youth movement anyway
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point, but what exactly are we giving up to aquire this guy that doesn’t impact our movement too much? I would assume a player of Gange’s talents would attract a fair amount of teams.
i dont think any of us know for sure but we were talking about a mid level prospect such as sauer or borque and a 3rd round pick or a 2nd if they wanted more
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
So
Rangers + Gagne – 2nd rndr = 4th or 5th place this year & (- Redden) & + Cally and Dubi cap space next year… Usually my math sucks but this sounds good
by louielounz1 on Jul 15, 2010 1:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
PHILLY
has no cap space. Im guessing he wont go to Pittsburgh(Inner state rivals)? He wont be traded to the Kings(he likes the area). The Devils wont take him(make or break year for Devs to much risk). Chicago and Det ditto. Which leaves the Rangers and the Isles? hmm
by louielounz1 on Jul 15, 2010 1:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Eh…Carolina, Nashville, Columbus, Tampa and Atlanta are all short flights and have plenty of cap room.
I’ve read Edmonton and Tampa as the other teams that have inquired.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, atleast the teams inquiring are non elite contenders which makes an equal playing field for us.
by louielounz1 on Jul 15, 2010 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So is Washington.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I could see Carolina or Atlanta as good fits
I don’t think he’d waive the NTC to lose in Ohio or have to live in Edmonton. Edmonton gets first call on him on waivers though, so he could be stuck there.
Jesus H. Christ!!!
Another concussion laiden veteran to stink up the MSG medical facility… We dont need this guy. He is still pretty decent but not worth it. If we were a legit contender, I would understand.
In 94 I thought i could die in peace... Now I watch a ranger game and just want to die.
i dont think we’re down on him. however gagne in exchange for him and a mid round pick would be getting excellent return for him. if anything we’re paying him an underhanded complinment by saying he has enough potential too woo the flyers (even though it is a salary dump deal for them). but borque does have a history of injuries
by BronxBeliever on Jul 15, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Real_ESPNLeBrun
Pavol Demitra has signed a one-year contract with Yaroslavl of the KHL, agent Matt Keator confirms to ESPN.com
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Well there goes my idea, down the tubes, again lol
by Conway on Jul 15, 2010 10:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No thanx
I would rather trade for Bobby Ryan.or just sign Lee Stempniak.
Hank deserves better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Stroker Ace on Jul 15, 2010 3:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Bobby Ryan isn't going anywhere
the Ducks confirmed that. And Stempniak is just a disaster waiting to happen
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan will take a prince’s ransom because of his age.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
you just went down the line
eh? lol
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"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Jul 15, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Not king’s ransom, because
1) he’s unsigned, though RFA
2) King is Henrik Lundqvist and his ransom would be higher, and
3) The Kings won’t be able to pay his ransom, I’d bet.
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by red army line on Jul 15, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I still say we can get him with a Staal package
If there at a contract impasse, Staal for Ryan keeps everyone happy. Esentially you’re trading the #2 prospect out of the 2005 draft for one of the top 5. I say the top 5 from 2005 are crosby (still a turd), Ryan, then jack Johnson, staal and kopitar in whatever order you want. We need O prospects, ducks need D prosects – let’s make it happen!
by BuckarooClub on Jul 15, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
bobby ryan will not be traded and they'll match any offer sheet
stempniak ehhhh
the rfa they should look at is james neal
lucic would’ve been nice before he re-upped
This from a man who thinks the plural of goose is sheep.
According to ZIpay
Steve Zipay stevezipay
RFA D Mike Sauer has accepted NYR qualifying offer
Great.
Hopefully he learns a lot playing with Redden in Hartford.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Jul 15, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully he doesn't learn anything from Redden
at least not today’s version of the player
god, please, no. crap even in hartford redden is gonna be killing us by giving sage “veteran” advice.
He can teach him that world class first pass of his
by Conway on Jul 15, 2010 10:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
if gagne gets moved its probably to toronto
No chance he’s coming here they’re not swapping intra division
I don’t think sather making any moves till someone locks up kovy and staal situation is worked out, too many millions in flux
by The Suit on Jul 15, 2010 6:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
completely unrelated, but i know some people were saying we should go for mikko next year, well hes gone, just signed a long term extension
Yeah, i just saw that. Any details yet besides 7 years?
by WalkerNYRanger on Jul 15, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
TSN has it as
7 years $47.25 mil
Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
The core of the 2014 Stanley Cup winners!
by 76 Blueshirt on Jul 15, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn! That’s a really smart move by Minnesota though, he’s a great player.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm..it’s Mikko that they signed.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 16, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Koivu — the younger brother of Anaheim’s Saku, the longtime captain in Montreal — would have been a free agent after the 2010-11 season. Michael Russo of the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports the deal is the richest in Wild history, worth $47.25 million over seven years, for an annual value of $6.75 million. Russo says the deal does include a no-trade clause.
I feel the need to ask...
Does any of this look familiar? Anyone get the sense of history repeating itself? Does this smell like Eric Lindros all over again?
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
On that note, I kinda miss the F-L-Y line in a weird way. I don’t know if that makes me more depressed that I actually miss that line putting up top numbers in the nhl for a short time…and the czechmates line, if Nedved ever took less than 2 hours to wind up a shot
The Loneliest Ranger fan living in Philadelphia.
by MooseRanger on Jul 15, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
gagne/frolov
gagne would be a good addition for us, especially against our rivals, but im still sticking with frolov, kid is younger and in better shape, and i think he would be perfect on the 2nd line with callahan and drury/dubinsky!
forget gagne
In order to get Gagne we are going to have to give up our young players who are the future of the Rangers for an injury prone guy so we can make the playoffs and not win the cup next year. It is that kind of thinking that got us in to this situation the rangers in the first place.
kovalchuk
If they can afford Gagne’s contract under the cap, they should be able to arrange a contract to get Kovalchuk that will fit their cap. At worst, give a team a high draft pick to take Rosi or Redden. Preferably not a #1, but even if that is what it takes, Kovalchuk is better than anyone they are likely to get with a #1 pick. He is also better, younger and more durable than Gagne.
It’s a lot easier to make room for a one year deal than the 7+ that Kovalchuk is asking, and Kovy’s price is also higher.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 15, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
If they can afford Gagne, they should just up the ante and sign Kovalchuk. He is better, bigger, younger and more durable, and will help the team for years to come.
Please kovy
Just sign somewhere(other than the Atlantic div) so we can stop speculating if sather pulls a rabbit out of his hat
by Conway on Jul 15, 2010 10:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i would do it .
look to add a player of gagne,s caliber is a plus for the rangers i would throw draft picks at the flyers . i dont think they will ask for to much. shit they already have there final piece to the cup puzzle in zheredev look every player is a risk whether a injury or not living up to the hype.
lohaus #54
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New York Rangers
|
51 | 33 | 13 | 5 | 71 |
|
Philadelphia
|
53 | 30 | 16 | 7 | 67 |
|
New Jersey
|
53 | 31 | 19 | 3 | 65 |
|
Pittsburgh
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54 | 30 | 19 | 5 | 65 |
|
New York Islanders
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52 | 22 | 22 | 8 | 52 |
(updated 2.9.2012 at 9:25 AM EST)
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