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Ryan Callahan - A look at his progress

Editor Note By Joe Fortunato: Great story Smurf. Enjoy the main page bump.

The ever popular law firm of duo of Dubinsky & Callahan causes many a debate among Rangers fans.  With opinions ranging from 1st line potential stars, to career 3rd line role players, there is no consensus on what we actually have in these two young forwards.  They have both completed their 3rd season with the big club, and are entering the prime years of their careers.  Thus, I thought it would be a good time to take a look at their progress to date.  In part one, we'll focus on Mr. Callahan.

Ryan Callahan was the 127th pick in the 2004 draft, coming off his first point per game season in the OHL as a 19 year old.  Using the NHL equivalencies data from BehindtheNet.ca, we can look at how Callahan's career has unfolded (I prorated the two AHL/NHL year totals based on the GP in both leagues):

Year Team League GP G A PTS PPG Factor NHLE PPG 82 Game
2002-03  Guelph Storm  OHL  59 14 17 31 0.525 0.29 0.152 12.495
2003-04  Guelph Storm  OHL  68 36 32 68 1.000 0.29 0.290 23.780
2004-05  Guelph Storm  OHL  60 28 26 54 0.900 0.29 0.261 21.402
2005-06  Guelph Storm  OHL  62 52 32 84 1.355 0.29 0.393 32.218
2006-07  Hartford Wolf Pack  AHL  60 35 20 55 0.917 0.44 0.403  
2006-07  New York Rangers  NHL  14 4 2 6 0.429 1 0.429 33.465
2007-08  Hartford Wolf Pack  AHL  11 7 8 15 1.364 0.44 0.600  
2007-08  New York Rangers  NHL  52 8 5 13 0.250 1 0.250 25.511
2008-09  New York Rangers  NHL  81 22 18 40 0.494 1 0.494 40.494
2009-10  New York Rangers  NHL  77 19 18 37 0.481 1 0.481 39.403

After the jump, we'll take a look at these numbers, and try to draw some conclusions.

Star-divide

As we see, Callahan has gradually increased his production over the years, but there seems to be a two year waiting period for each jump.  03-05, he's at ~22pts, 05-08 at ~33 pts (with a hiccup in 07-08), and 08-10 at ~40 points.   Continuing that trend, one might expect Ryan Callahan to increase to ~50 points as he reaches the next two-three years of his career, which fall into his prime.  One point of concern, however, is the preciptious drop in ES production for Ryan.  While stats for PP/SH assists are difficult to obtain for other league, we can look at his goal production:

Year 2002-03  2003-04  2004-05  2005-06  2006-07  2007-08  2008-09  2009-10 
ES Gpg 3.627 7.694 6.341 9.972 12.234 11.402 19.235 10.649

Ryan showed a nice steady production in his even strength goals from year to year, until this past year, where his production fell precipitously.    Several factors could've contributed to this.   Let's look at those in table form:


ZoneStart ZS Rank Shot Distance True Shooting % QualComp QC Rank Qual Team QT Rank
2007-08  56.7 6 of 14 31.2 6.4 -0.012 14 of 14 0.01 9 of 14
2008-09  60.6 4 of 13 27.1 6.7 0.034 5 of 13 0.023 9 of 13
2009-10  44.7 12 of 14 24.2 4.4 0.068 5 of 14 -0.071 10 of 14

For those unfamiliar, ZoneStart represents the ratio of offensive to defensive zone starts.   So at 56.7%, Callahan starts 56.7 starts in the offensive zone for every 43.3 in the defensive end.   True shooting percentage is the goals scored divided by all shots either on goal or missing the net (not blocked).

So first off, we see Callahan was dumped into a highly defensive role this year.  In his first two seasons, Callahan saw him get very favorable starting positions, and he was able to capitalize decently this that role.  With the loss of Betts and Sjostrom, Callahan, along with Drury, was forced to take more of the defensive faceoffs that our beloved 4th liners used to take.  These extra responsibilities certainly took their toll on his production.  That he was rewarded with PP time to help keep his production up is a plus, but if he is kept in his role, he may not see the jump that his trending otherwise may indicate.

The second factor is the quality of the people on the ice with him.  While his ranks among the team have stayed fairly consistent the last two years (Renney clearly sheltered him in 2007-2008 while he got his feet wet), the overall quality has significantly increased, and his teammates have become significantly worse.  Combined with the unfavorable starting positions, Ryan is fighting a serious uphill battle in trying to maintain his scoring rates.

The third and final potential cause is simple mathematical luck.  As you can see, Ryan has been able to get his shots closer to the net each year, but this year, he saw an unnatural drop in his shooting.   Had he continued his typical ~6.6% shooting, he would have provided an extra 4 goals to his ES totals, giving him 14 ES goals and 23 total for the season, both very respectable totals.

So what will this mean for the Rangers and Ryan Callahan going forward?   Based on these numbers, it is clear they are at a crossroads.  If the Rangers (and notably Tortorella) continue to use Callahan as a defensive specialist, we may never actually see how high Ryan's ceiling will go.  This year's FA signings are presumably completed, and so he will certainly have to play in this role for at least one more season.   He'll be just a 3rd line grinder, he'll chip in 15-20 goals, he'll kill penalties, and he'll be beloved cause he hits anything he can find.   However, if they can bring in a defensive specialist next year and ease up on Callahan's assignments, he may actually become the 2nd line, 25-30-55 guy that many see in him.

Coming up in part 2 - Brandon Dubinsky.

credit for the stats goes to behindthenet.ca and hockeydb.com

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That was a very good breakdown of Callahan so far.

by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 17, 2010 4:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Well they both can be 20-25 goal scorers, that is their’ ceiling IMO. On your model team they could both be any where from second line to third line players. Dubi has a little more upside but I don’t see either of them as first line players. Since we have one top line guy on our team they mght see first line minutes from time to time.

Since the face been revealed the game got real

by BL3ACH on Jul 17, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

Nice analysis. I remember sitting at the Adam Graves jersey retirement game and looking at that bench and not seeing a single player that could remotely become the next Graves besides Callahan. He’ll always have the heart and work ethic, and as you said, the key will be who he plays with and the chemistry under that line’s role. It’ll pretty much come down to hoping/assuming that last year was a fluke across the board for everyone’s offensive numbers and either keeping him on the 2nd line with Dubi-AA or Dubi-Drury. I think if Torts can keep his finger off the line change trigger, I have to believe that Cally can hit 25-30 while playing a solid two-way game. Gotta be optimistic they can turn it around since there’s no new free agent help coming (besides MZA who I think is completely unpredictable)!

The Loneliest Ranger fan living in Philadelphia.

by MooseRanger on Jul 17, 2010 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks.

I don’t think Callahan will ever have 30 ability, he’s not a good enough shooter to hit that mark. 25 is reachable under the right conditions, and he might hit it once, but otherwise I think the 18-23 range is about where you’ll see him plateau.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

like someone said, i think it depends on who he’s playing with. anyone have graves’ stats before he hit that 50 goal season? i don’t think anyone expected it. but i agree with folks on here who think one or the other of those guys shouldn’t be freed up for a trade. mind you, i like em both so it would need to be part of a sweet package.

by voice22 on Jul 18, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure…Graves went from 9 and 7 goals in Edmonton at age 22/23, to the Rangers where he scored 26, 36, 52, and then 17 in 47 games. Not surprisingly, Graves had an obscene shooting percentage (17.9%) when he spiked to 52, and again late in his career when he scored 38.

All told, Graves was a better shooter than Callahan, but there are some similarities to be made between the two players.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

i wish we could bring in someone to fill in that “defensive specialist” position, but at the same time I think having ryan in that position wouldn’t be much of a bad thing if we had someone else to be the 25-30-55 guy (which i think the rangers are hoping MZA might be). He’s clearly showed that he can excel as a defensive guy, but has also been able to turn on the offense at times.

Personally I think for now he’s a flexible player, if he continues being a designated defensive guy maybe he’ll lose some of his offensive touch but hopefully MZA can fill in the offensive role that otherwise would be callahan, because honestly when he focuses on shutting down other teams he’s been fairly good and has showed endless determination and some pretty good hockey sense in his own zone, IMHO.

by teknics on Jul 17, 2010 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

plus, as you said, he friggin’ hits everything.

by teknics on Jul 17, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

With your ability to sniff out and compile stats, you would be every announcer’s best friend. Maybe you could help me steal Joe Micheletti’s spot?
Very good analysis, looking forward to the roast of Brandon Dubinsky.

"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
"Luongo: He's better than Cloutier"

by Scratch and Snif on Jul 17, 2010 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

+1, you’d definitely blow micheletti out of the water

by teknics on Jul 17, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

I was going to combine them to start, and realized I had way too much just for Callahan, so I broke them up.

I think it’s a fascinating thing going on, I think it’s rare to have two guys, each with a couple years experience, that have such a disparity of viewpoints on both who is better, and who will be better.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Rangers Own "Team Edward" vs "Team Jacob" ...

Is kind of where we sit with Dubi and Cally. Having watched them both coming up, I’m begining to realize that these guys are both going to fill the same roll for us, but each in their own way. I don’t think either will ever dominate the league. When the comparisons with Graves roll out, I think Dubi is closer to being that type of player. Dubi has more skill, he plays with more of an edge, and drops the mitts. As much as Cally will throw himself into anyone, he’s still only 5’10. Dubi has 3 inches and 20 lbs on him. I also think Dubi has gotten away from his physical game under Torts, and I think he’s a better player when he’s encouraged to play the body when he’s getting shut down on offense.

I think right now Cally could draw a big price for us if we moved him. I’m sure that will draw the ire of plenty of people on here, but he’s coming off an olympic season, and he’s still viewed as a “prospect”. I think the move could jump start him, and in an organization with lots of offense, his ability to skate with top players, and cover for their mistakes would be very attractive. We might not want to deal with Pittsburg, but he’s a great fit there on paper. I could also see him excelling in Washington or Detroit. Good teams, with lots of scoring, looking for grit and heart. Unfortunatly, for the Rangers, I think he’s just another grinder.

by BuckarooClub on Jul 17, 2010 7:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Dubinsky and Torts are right in giving his physical game the backseat. It’s a great tool to have, but we need him to be more of a scorer. We don’t need that many role players on the team, we need offensive talent.

"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
"Luongo: He's better than Cloutier"

by Scratch and Snif on Jul 17, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i have the same dilemma when looking at both dubi and cally, if they were on a more talented team i can see them acclimating very well and reaching their full potential. Its probably one of the worst parts of building a team over again, the “old” new guys are having to carry the team as the established vets are leaving and they wait for the new crop of guys to take up some slack.

i also cant deny either one’s trade worth, i’d hate to see them leave because I’m sure they’d blossom more easily elsewhere, but depending on the return i’d really have to take some time to think about my reaction.

by teknics on Jul 17, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Callahan hasn’t ever really skated with top players. The best the organization has had since Callahan’s been in the league were Jagr, Shanahan, and now Gaborik, and he hasn’t played with any of them.

There are probably far too many undersized players with ‘grit and heart" that are somewhere in other organizations (big leagues, AHL) for a team to pay big for someone like Callahan. His sub-10% shooting percentage and size don’t warrant anything near a “big” return.

As for Callahan still being viewed as a “prospect”? How’s that? He’s 25 and been in the league 4 years.

by Hoggo on Jul 17, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol

He’ll be a prospect to us until he lives up to our insane expectations. In other words, he’ll always be a prospect.

"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
"Luongo: He's better than Cloutier"

by Scratch and Snif on Jul 18, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why does he have such insane expectations? I’ll take Cally’s 20 goals a year and be totally happy with it. He does everything else for this club and is a future captain. He brings it every night, hustles his ass off, hits everything, stands up for his teammates, PK’s, plays the defensive foward well and scores 20 goals a year.

Pretty damn good if you ask me. I think he’s reached his expectations.

Now if Dubi brought Cally’s intensity every night he’d be a 30 goal scorer. But i’ll save that for the Dubi post.

Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
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by 76 Blueshirt on Jul 18, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Cally’s doing just fine. It’s true, 20 goals, checking, defense, and consistent effort is very good for a player.

"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
"Luongo: He's better than Cloutier"

by Scratch and Snif on Jul 18, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its funny how some people hate on Drury for being captain while he does those things as well, but some people here have said the captain needs to be a superstar player who produces in the neighborhood of 80+ points and those types of things. Which is ridiculous and I dont agree with it at all. But Cally probably wouldnt have to worry bout that since he wouldnt get an overly inflated contract like Drurys since he’s been here & our own players get low balled while we overpay for FAs.

Favre 4 Ever
I Believe In Chris Drury

by Plusch on Jul 18, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think people hate Drury just for the 7mil. I actually don’t like this trend of giving superstar players the captainship. Their being the face of the franchise doesn’t mean that they are the face of the locker room. Sometimes it works out, like with Toews or Iginla, other times it doesnt, like with Kovy.

"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
"Luongo: He's better than Cloutier"

by Scratch and Snif on Jul 18, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree w/ both points. Like anything there are successes & failures with “acquired” players coming to a team thru FA or a trade and being named captain. Worked great w/ Messier & theres a few guys in the league now who havent succeeded as much as expected while being captain, such as Drury and Luongo.
And that reminds me on a side note, who’s gonna be the Sharks captain now? Marleau 1 season after being stripped of it? Who knows if Thornton can handle it.

Favre 4 Ever
I Believe In Chris Drury

by Plusch on Jul 18, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Over at FTF they think Pavelski will be captain. Blake was for a bit but he’s retired now.

The big advantage to having a superstar be your captain is that it’s easier to lead by example. If he can take over a game and score a couple of goals suddenly the entire team can get inspired.

But you don’t need to be a captain for that, just a leader, like AO for 2+ seasons.

Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
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by red army line on Jul 19, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dan Boyle

Sharks management will most likely give Boyle the C as he was an assistant last season. Pavelski is leadership potential and is a favorite among Sharks faithful, but he hasn’t worn a letter other then when one of the lettered players was injured. Thornton should remain an assistant with Marleau or Pavs taking the other letter.

Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.

by Will Bulldozer on Jul 19, 2010 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

sorry, not sharks management, but the players will most likely vote for Boyle.

I guess it’s a locker room popularity contest, which might explain why the awkward Patty Marleau is without a letter. ; )

Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.

by Will Bulldozer on Jul 19, 2010 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jagr and Gaborik are both RWs, as it Callahan. That’s the biggest reason he doesn’t get to play with them.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I realize that, just making a point. Dubinsky, and not Callahan, has skated with the Rangers’ top players. Callahan did play with with Gomez and Naslund in ‘08-’09, but I don’t think anyone would say that that line combination was ultra-productive.

by Hoggo on Jul 18, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Callahan got alot of time with Drury and Straka in 07-08, and whlie we kill Drury, that’s still two 50+ point players he played with, not exactly Orr and Sjostrom.

But yes, he hasn’t played with either of the superstars, while Dubinsky has.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cally had a stint as the rotating wing with Gabby and Prospal, and he had a couple game stretch playing on the top PP with those guys. No results though

by BuckarooClub on Jul 18, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cally had a lot of results playing the PP with Gaborik and Prospal, he was often on the #1 unit this year (that’s coming in part 3). That’s the only reason he came anywhere near his goal/pt totals this year.

Cally and Gaborik actually had a pretty nice time together, outshooting opponents 50-24 while they were together, but only posting a +1 b/c of some blech goaltending (85 sv%). All 3 together outshot opponents 37-17, but the same +1 and some even more blech goaltending (78.6%)

It could probably work, Callahan as the center I guess. But it’s not ideal.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

3 more PP goals and they were top 10 in the league. At times they were an adventure, sure, but they were fairly effective this season, much better than abysmal 08-09 season. That was almost all a product of having an actual threat at the point in MDZ.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

08-09 was horrid, half the time the shorthanded team played like it was their advantage. 09-10 was a pleasant change, and fairly lethal at the start of the season

by teknics on Jul 18, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The PP still wasn't consistent

To put it Gordon Bombay/Charlie Conway terms – Three less goals and we would have missed the top 20 altogether. A good power play unit should be able to build and sustain pressure throughout the attack. Watching our PP alot of the time last season, we couldn’t get anything set up. It was alot of keep away, but we couldn’t get the chance to materialize.

by BuckarooClub on Jul 19, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Would’ve been 5 less to get out of the top 20, but yes, that’s true, it’s a delicate balance.

No, clearly they were not consistent, they scored in bunches, and had droughts as big as 0 for 25. They still produced 55 goals this year, and an 18.3% clip, which after last year’s abysmal 13.9% rate, is a big improvement.

The real problem most of the season was the 2nd PP unit. While Prospal-Gaborik-Callahan-MDZ-Whoever was productive most of the year, when they didn’t get it done is when you saw the lack of pressure, consistency and set-up. Torts generally treated that unit as a “who is hot today” unit, almost like he was having a practice in the middle of the games. If they can develop a more consistent 2nd unit, then they should be better at sustaining pressure throughout.

Like the 1st unit, that will start with an actual threat on the point. Maybe McDonagh can do it if he gets here, or Gilroy can improve, but otherwise they’re kind of SOL when it comes to PP point-men.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 19, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Imagine there was a fictional RFA available, let's call him "Robby Byan" who could play on the second PP

Gabby is the guy on that first PP who kept the other team on their heals. Having a second go-to guy let’s us have a second unit. And before we get into the same discussion we have on every board, my point is, without a second scorer, there is nothing behind Gabby. It doesn’t have to be the kid from Jersey in Anaheim, but it’s gotta be like him . The guy who drives his line. The guy who steps on the ice expecting to score. Kovi would have fit this bill nicely too, but now he’s off the market. Gagne would have been a nice patch, if you think someone coming up is gonna be that guy. We need a second scoring option from somewhere.

by BuckarooClub on Jul 19, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please don’t compare anything to Twilight ever again.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with everything you said. My only question is whether Callahan would draw the bigger value in the trade market. I can make arguments for both players really. Callahan certainly has the larger reputation around the league if I had to guess, so that alone may swing it. It’s a close call.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

He lost a couple man points there w/ that

Favre 4 Ever
I Believe In Chris Drury

by Plusch on Jul 18, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was wondering what the hell team edward was haha

Good article, but stats aside Ryan callahan unfortunately is too small to ever score goals the way graves did being planted in the crease and he doesn’t possess good vision, so unfortunately 20-25 goals, 40-50 points is prob what you will get from him

The report cards post from my site has a little more indepth look if anyone is interested

by The Suit on Jul 18, 2010 7:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Definitely agreed that he won’t do it the Graves way, the comparisons are in the nature of his competitiveness more than his style of play I think.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Still a good a trait to have though, wish everyone had that fire

by The Suit on Jul 18, 2010 12:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

THE FIRE

that’s what I was really getting at before with my Graves comparison. Of course Gravy was a better shooter, and yeah realistically I agree Cally will plateau around 20 goals a season, which plenty of guys in the nhl can make a career out of while maintaining a two-way game. So maybe there’s a chance Prust gets in that Betts/Sjostrom-type role as the quality checking forward we lost and Cally can focus more on scoring. Fingers crossed…

The Loneliest Ranger fan living in Philadelphia.

by MooseRanger on Jul 18, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great article

I was curious if you had hit stats. I know he finished 3rd this year in hits, and 4th the year before, but i can’t find his hits before that. Are those improving as well? Also, shots blocked? Plus, it just seems like he plays every shift with heart. I hope this kid is here for a while.

by WalkerNYRanger on Jul 18, 2010 1:36 AM EDT reply actions  

I have to get a list of “road hits,” for it to mean anything, there’s alot of rink bias when it comes to the hit stats, and MSG is one of the worst offenders.

Yes, obviously because it’s me, I didn’t touch on the intangibles too much, obviously there’s something to be said for the fact he rarely takes a night off.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

So you're saying the he is a torts type player?

lol

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"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII

by Joe Fortunato on Jul 18, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great post!

This is what angers me about getting rid of Betts Sjostrom and Orr, because they were a really solid grinding/defensive line, which freed Cally up for more offensive zone starts.
Clearly, Torts and Sather didn’t see it that way.

It seems to me that they want defensive specialists who can contribute offensively, which is fine, but if you can have your 4th line fill that role, that’s ideal. Instead, on this team, we have our 3rd line filling that role, so guys like Cally and Drury’s production drops, and our 4th line is completely useless and underutilized. This is my biggest bone of contention with Torts’ coaching style.

by j-red on Jul 18, 2010 11:12 AM EDT reply actions  

not Sjostrom

I never liked him. But I thought that Orr was better than your average enforcing bear and I don’t think I have to tell anyone how much I loved Betts

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII

by Joe Fortunato on Jul 18, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lol

‘Orr better than your average enforcing bear’ had me rolling

by Conway on Jul 18, 2010 12:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I am full of gems

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII

by Joe Fortunato on Jul 18, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think using cally against top lines/good lines is fine, but dont always start him d-zone

by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jul 18, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, that’s the thing. Most top lines get a pretty favorable start. For us, Prospal/Gaborik were both over 58%. So if you’re going to match him up, the d-zone is where it will be.

The only way to balance it is to get him more ice time, or more time on the 1st line. With him playing the same position as Gaborik, that’s just not going to happen.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

See thata's why I love Gaborik

Instead of Kovalchuk. gaborik is just as lethal in the defensive zone as he is in the offensive zone

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII

by Joe Fortunato on Jul 18, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cally seems to be a victim of his own success. Like many of you have said, we needed a defensive role-player when betts/sjostrom were shown the door and drury/cally filled those roles and did it well. And while Cally definitely has a decent scoring touch and pretty good offensive talent, he just might be better suited to play the defensive role while chipping in 15-20. He certainly seems lined up for it again this year.

by Conway on Jul 18, 2010 1:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Great Post Smurf

In my opinion Cally one of the players you need to win a cup. Lots of heart, not a huge price tag(yet?), top ten in terms of the leagues two way game hence why he was on team USA, and is still growing. The guys who want to win show it and he shows it.

by louielounz1 on Jul 18, 2010 2:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

The cynic in me says that part of the reason they reduced his offensive role last year and this year has been to gain leverage in his contract negotiations next year. If I’m right in assuming he should progress to a 50-55 point player, then it would be fiscally responsible to keep him from that level until after he signs his next contract. Those extra 10 points could cost him a good $500k-$1m, changing him from a $3-$3.25m guy to a $3.5-$4m guy

It’s almost too diabolical to be true, but only almost.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s actually a very possible scenario. They knew that sacrificing Cally’s offensvie wouldn’t be catastrophic to our team, so they were able to do so and save that extra million per. Nothing is to diabolical to be out of Sather’s reach, especially not when it comes to lowballing our own guys.

"Mes que un club"
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"Luongo: He's better than Cloutier"

by Scratch and Snif on Jul 18, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

i would think during our late season push they wouldve put him into more of an offensive role to help make the playoffs, if the holding him back thing is true. Maybe they did and I just didnt notice but I dont think theyd hold him back when they were so aware of our problems scoring.

not that I couldnt see sather doing that, its certainly possible

by teknics on Jul 18, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

except that our strategy for making it into the playoffs was to become a tight back checking squad that knotted up the front of the net, forced shots from the periphery and cleared along the boards instead of to the lone forward at the blueline. thus the late acquisitions to add “toughness” and grind. weren’t we going a 1-2-2 format? it was smart and almost turned the season around. expect the same strategy next year unless we pick up another goal scorer.

my feeling is that Sather is “buying” time for another purchase or trade which probably won’t happen until the season gets going so that we can watch the team in action. he would have bought a FA if it didn’t break the bank or if something came up. but it didn’t . the team was in flux at the end of last year so we’ll see how things go through November/December.

d

by voice22 on Jul 18, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s our new strategy? Gross. That’s very like Jose Mourinho’s anti-football. Maybe I’ll warm up to the idea when I see it properly put into effect.

"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
"Luongo: He's better than Cloutier"

by Scratch and Snif on Jul 19, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

i’m not saying we have to like it but that’s what it looked like to me. we need to play the strategy of the elements we have.

i could be wrong though…do you really think we can play a run and gun offense with this lineup?

by voice22 on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m a fan of either offensive zone possession — Chicago’s style, or a defensive shell, like with Renney. Teams that rely on forecheck try too much to outpace other teams, rather than wear them down with quick thinking and effective passing.

"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
"Luongo: He's better than Cloutier"

by Scratch and Snif on Jul 20, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

but all that talent

The thing about both Dubinsky and Callahan that have us all confused as to what they will become, is that both flash unbelievable highlight reel plays from time to time.

Callahan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpFuKFATf74
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4ZbsgljLII

Dubinksy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yTha-0SECw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdbZHWiPXx8

Together, short-handed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMTSLKh7G0g&feature=related

by SeanI on Jul 18, 2010 2:39 PM EDT reply actions  

the best thing about Dubi’s goal in the first link you have for him, is what he does to Green… made him look like such a tool.

by j-red on Jul 18, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Along with every other forward that ever goes one on one with him.

"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
"Luongo: He's better than Cloutier"

by Scratch and Snif on Jul 18, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1. Cant stand him, incredibly overrated.

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I Believe In Chris Drury

by Plusch on Jul 18, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

….that’s Schultz. Green plays the 2-on-1 and plays the pass…?

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by red army line on Jul 19, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

The last one proves Dubi and Cally go together like peanut butter and jelly. I hope they are both Rangers for life.

by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 18, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea thats definitely how i feel, both of them have streaks of brilliance that if they could constantly put forth those plays theyd be hard to defend against, but as it is you dont see it enough. Hopefully it’s a maturity thing they grow into (big hopes for this season) but I am glad they dont sacrifice their defensive abilities to push for those plays when theyre not confident in pulling them off.

by teknics on Jul 18, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay, okay…never trade either of them ever. this one will want to make you give duby a 15 year contract:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9N4cdBBjUo

thanks for making me miss hockey in july!

d

by voice22 on Jul 18, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

tell me about it, ive been watching hockey on youtube all weekend

by teknics on Jul 18, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great clips

But these are getting me way too hyped up about hockey with the season being too far away. I know right after I type this I’m going to go look up more highlight reel stuff

Who thinks Dubs is wearing an A if he has no contract issues going into last season?

by Conway on Jul 18, 2010 6:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

lets face we have good third line players in cali and dubi thats it or they would be putting numbers like bobby ryan.we need to stop overrating our players

by nytrueblue on Jul 18, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Cally right now, yes, he’s a 3rd liner, with 2nd potential. Dubi’s a 2 with 1 potential.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amonte and Weight

It’s hard for me not to draw comparisons between these two and Tony Amonte (Dubi) and Doug Weight (Cally). Neither of which really prospered until after they left the system. I’m sure smurf can pull up the 3rd/4th year numbers of both those players, but to me (and maybe I’m just being a sentimentalist) I think both those players represent the ceilings for our guys.

by 'DOH-lan on Jul 18, 2010 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Amonte and Weight were both better players in their early 20’s, even accounting for the higher scoring era. They were both point per game players that led their teams in scoring at least once. Neither Dubi nor Cally will become that good a player, at least as it seems right now.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay

by George E. Ays on Jul 18, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

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