Rangers Analysis: Rangers to Pursue Brad Richards?
by Nick Montemagno on Jul 23, 2010 12:01 PM EDT
in New York Rangers Analysis
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Rangers general manager Glen Sather states that he is not yet done "tinkering" with the lineup and there are several names out there in which he has been linked to. One of those is Brad Richards of the Dallas Stars who, with Gagne headed to Tampa, is probably at the top of the list of most likely to be acquired by the Blueshirts. It is a deal that would make sense for several reasons.
Richards, now age 30, had an outstanding season with the Stars last year, notching 24 goals and 91 points in 80 games played. His 67 assists are indicative of his playmaking style and there is no doubt his passing abilities are far superior to many in the game. In fact, compared to the prior season, Brad doubled his assist totals this year and had an all-around better performance in 2009-10. That begins with his health as he only missed two games, playing 98 percent of the season.
The Blueshirts have been suffering from first line center syndrome ever since Michael Nylander was not a part of the team anymore. No one seemed to ever fill his spot, no matter who coaches tried there. Now, with Marian Gaborik on the right wing, it is crucial that Sather finds him a guy that can get him the puck. Sure he has Vinny Prospal, but Vinny is by no means keeping up with Marian and is not the ideal centerman for him. Richards would be and head coach John Tortorella probably already knows that.
Continue reading after the jump....
Tortorella is very fond of Richards since they spent some time together with the Tampa Bay Lightning. Torts used Richards as his go-to center instead of Vincent Lecavalier back then, which just goes to show the respect Tortorella had for him. Among the advantages of bringing in Richards would be that Tort knows his capabilities, Richards knows the coach's system, and he knows what Tortorella is going to expect from him. It would be like two long lost friends meeting up again in the workplace and quickly picking up on their chemistry where they left off.
Fitting Richard's $7.8 million cap hit under the ceiling would be a challenge, but if Wade Redden is booted to the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) in training camp then it would become much easier. There is only one year remaining on Richard's contract so if he did not work out, the Blueshirts would not be stuck with him either.
As far as what they would have to give up, I would think Dallas would be seeking a defenseman of some sort and a prospect at least. The asking price could very well be greater, but I am just going based on the needs of the Dallas Stars. Losing Richards would hit the Stars hard, especially since Mike Modano's future there is uncertain, so they are going to want a halfway decent return.
I do not think an acquisition like this would make the Rangers complete contenders, but it would at least help from a lack of goal scoring aspect. If Marian Gaborik has another star on his line, trust me he will be absolutely unstoppable. I think that would be Sather's intentions if he did pursue Richards in the next few weeks.
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Personally
we’re a playoff team with Richards, but that would depend on who we let go to get him
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we would make the playoffs but probably wouldnt contend, so why sacrifice the farm just to make the playoffs when we could go after him in 12 months for just money?
by Michael Gleich on Jul 23, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well with some of the trades that go Down
I don’t see him demanding much. He’s a rental at one year to most teams. For ny I can see him resigning here especially if he has a good season. I would give up picks and a lower level prospect. If you look at the bigger picture here it can benifit us more by trading for him. We might be able to dump rosi on them never know, but besides tha redden has to go Down If Richards is aquired. So that gives mcdonagh a spot definitly and he would have a whole year of NHL experience under his belt for the 2012 season. With Philly pit nj and the isles gettig substatially better things need to move a little more quickly, but certainly nobody should be rushed. So I say yea for Richards if the ofcourse the price is right. I would even do like cally for him and a like a 5th round. Because seriously i don’t see cally and duby both resigned when heir contracts are up we have too much youth coming up and one of them can surly be replaces especially cally. Although he can be a future captain we have a couple others of them floating around our organization.
by klh2009 on Jul 23, 2010 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
so you think they are going to deal a guy off a 90 pt year for cally and a 5th? that’s funny.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 23, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Im not expecting him to come. I would like him but for not much more than cally who’s has value to some teams but I admit not as much to Dallas as to a cup contender, and some picks. Not for cally grach and mcd, or a staal and a prospect like grachev or whatever any1 can think of along those lines. Yea I’d do a cally and a pick obviously not much but the again I never said to go get him no matter what just if the price it low. Which I believe it will.
by klh2009 on Jul 23, 2010 7:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ummm
ok? You did say you don’t see him demanding much, I’m not sure who he is, I assume the Stars, also not sure why they wouldn’t demand much, as leetch said he’s a 90pt guy. Why in the world would they even entertain Rosy in this deal?
As Francesca says people only think of their teams in these deals, they never think of what the other side would be looking for.
Dude
Your exactly right people only think of their own team in trades, but in our case it’s not under valueing Richards it’s over valueing him. The first propsed trade i’ve seen was step grach mcd and first or 3 of the 4. I commented against that I don’t think he is worth that much, nor will he go for that much. Why don’t you read instead of commenting about how im only think of the rangers side of the trade. I never stated what I think he would command from us, said what i would give up, which is a cally picks and a d prospect. He might be able to get done for that much ehh depends but I’m also NOT expecting him to come! I was just really surprised at what people thought Richards could retrieve for Dallas. Look at heatley or recently gagne trades. Idk I just see a good 90 pt player yes, that’s injury prone is his own right and a rental that may not resign. As for rosi they have to take some salary back because they are goin to be on the cap floor of they trade Richards of they aren’t already so no matter what they need to take somthing back whether it’s from us or someone else.
by klh2009 on Jul 24, 2010 2:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
For the love of god no.
He’s an excellent player for sure, but Dallas is going to ask for a helluva lot more than “a defenseman of some sort and a prospect at least.”
You’re talking one of Grachev/Kreider/Stepan, plus at least Gilroy but more likely McDonagh, and probably at least one or two other pieces, for a player that can bolt after the season. Sure, it’s nice to say “well, we’ll just re-sign him,” but he’s a UFA, they don’t control him.
Dallas can be poached b/c of their salary budget, but you’re not going to take one of the few reasons to be optimistic down there without giving up a bunch of stuff.
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No wayyyyy
Would they expect a package of that!! If they expect anything like that their crazy. The rumors of what gaborik would retrieve is Justin williams and couple ok prospects. Last I checked that’s shit and he’s coming with a contract. Look what the kovy trade got them. Inknow were scared of our prospects being traded away but let’s be serious here I don’t think he would fetch that.
by klh2009 on Jul 23, 2010 12:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No..that was the rumor of what was offered for Gaborik, which was already established as, for lack of a better word, moronic.
Looking at Kovalchuk’s 1/2 year rental – in combination with a bottom 4 defenseman, it fetched an established NHL prospect in Bergfors, a top 4 defenseman in Oduya, a solid prospect in Cormier, and a 1st rounder (cancelling out the 2nds in the deal).
So rough comparables here with age and such….Anisimov, Girardi, Werek and a 1st.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Knowing the Rangers luck, whatever prospect we give up for him will be the one that turns into a star. Don’t see why you would give up players and picks when he is a free agent in a year.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
rosi, gilroy, borque, 2011 1st- in more detail below
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly and that's kovy
He’s not kovalchuck regardless of what kind of player Richards is kovy is on anoher level of talent. Outta the 4 you named to go 3 are our top prospects stepan, grahev and mcd, that’s a lot dif than anisimov girardi and werek.
by klh2009 on Jul 23, 2010 12:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well..I said one of Grachev/Stepan…and said Gilroy, but probably McD.
Anisimov and Grachev right now favors Anisimov, who is already here and didn’t struggle the way Grachev did in his first AHL year (at the same age)
Girardi is an established top 4, McD is still a prospect (who granted, has a higher ceiling than Girardi most likely, but is still unproven)
And Werek/Stepan are similar talent levels, given the year difference in age.
So IMO, yes, it’s a lot different, in that A/G/W is more expensive, and thus covers the difference between Kovy and Richards.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
He’s not fetching that. Dallas has no leverage he’s walking at the end of the year gms know that. He’s not that needed that gms are going to throw prospects sways at a rental player that may not resign. Think from a gm pov if Anyone gives him a package of that they should be fired. Especially when they are our top prospects.
by klh2009 on Jul 23, 2010 1:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Again..the Devs just did exactly that…they had no guarantee they were getting Kovy back, but gave up two top prospects plus an established top 4 NHL defenseman and a pick.
And why does Dallas have no leverage? They’re not forced to trade Richards just because he might leave at the end of the year. It’s not like Richards has said “No way I’m re-signing,” nor has he demanded a trade.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
First kovalchuck is much differant for the fact that he was sought after for about two years before actually being traded. It was like ancountdown until he was traded, and the guy still got traded for nothing too crazy. The resin Dallas has no leverage is because let Dallas ask for a package that you offered of step grachev and mcd or two and a first. Any gm would step away for his injuries and the rental. As a gm of Dallas he should know they should trade him and get some value rather than letting him just walk. If that happens then a gm isn’t doing his job to the best of his ablities. Because if he’s nottraded and walks that’s an awful awful mistake if I were a gm I would try to not ever lose a player of his caliber to free agency for nothing even if I get a bag of pucks i got somthing and Dallas needs somthing, and there’s no argument there.
by klh2009 on Jul 23, 2010 2:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But the Dallas gm has an entire year (or at least until the deadline) to determine whether he can sign him to an extension. So until he’s actually a lock to not re-sign, Dallas still has the leverage.
I’m not saying just throw that package at him, I’m saying that might be where the negotiations end.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea I know your right about that
I was just looking past that figuring he wasn’t resigning for many reasons that don’t need to be mentioned.
by klh2009 on Jul 23, 2010 3:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And here I thought you were missing it…lol I don’t see why he would completely rule it out, but ownership in flux would certainly be a big deal.
I get your argument, I don’t tend to agree, but it’s certainly reasonable that he could command less that I think. I only pretend to know what I’m talking about, I could be way off.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea I get you smurf but i somtimes look at the trades that goes down sometimes and players are just handed away somtimes. I just have a hunch this will be one of those trades. I as well may pretend to know what I’m talking about and can be all wrong, that’s the best part.
by klh2009 on Jul 23, 2010 7:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, I play a team statistician on the net. You and leetch are the GMs.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
but it’s also not 1/3 year, it’s a whole season.
i would guess aa/grachev, girardi, werek and at least a 2.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 23, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way
Schenn is not an “ok prospect”. He is 19 years old and has the potential to be a first line center.
Simmonds is a work horse and would benefit any club
Schenn and Simmonds were the products of people here, not the actual rumor. The actual rumor was Williams, Teubert, and “a farm prospect”
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Since he's in the last year of his deal, yes, an extension can be negotiated.
However, after the season, Redden’s cap hit (which is where you’re finding the money for Richards) comes back on the cap. They currently have an estimated $15.212m on the cap (assuming the cap number doesn’t move, counting Redden). Add another $7m (say he takes a pay cut for the extension) for Richards, you’re down to $8.212m. Say Staal takes 4m (conservative), you’re down to $4.212m. Cap overage is 10%, so an extra $5.92 for the FA window…so $10.132m
Now, you need contracts for Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, plus a contract to fill Prospal’s top 6 spot, plus two defenseman and another forward by my count.
$10.1m isn’t covering that bill. The answer “well just don’t re-sign Dubi or Cally” doesn’t work either.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The price for Richards went up because Hicks is selling the team, maybe to Mark Cuban. It’s not going to be just a salary dump now. Expect to part with a good roster player, and a good prospect.
probably gonna be Staal....dammit
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 23, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re Mark Cuban, would you rather have the Dallas Stars, or the Texas Rangers.
The courts have allowed Cuban to bid on the Rangers – and you know he’s going to. Baseball offers a significantly higher profit capability than ice hockey.
If he gets the Rangers, I doubt he goes after the Stars.
Mark Cuban will buy the Stars before the Rangers
Cuban and Hicks own the arena they play in together. If there is a change in ownership and the loan on the arena needs to be adjusted there is a huge penalty Cuban will have to pay since Hicks is broke. If Cuban owns both teams there will not be any penalty.
won’t be staal and there aren’t many people lining up to buy team, hicks is selling rangers not stars
i heard it was some canadian oil tycoon who had very deep pockets buying the team but it was far from a done deal. i propsosed getting richards a while back. my deal was:
rosi, gilroy, borque and next yrs 1st— its a decent swap and rosi isnt terrible for them because he would be a top 4 dman for them under control for 2 yrs at 7mil total. then a promising dman, prospect and a #1 pick. and we get richards with the option of resigning him if he clicks with gabby and an extra 7.8 mil in cap space next summer if he doesnt
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Again a lot for only one year , what if he doesn’t resign.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
is it really a lot?
the firsst rounder is the worst part there, but we have two seconds next yr so that mitigates it a little. rozi’s 5 mil cap hit would be put to much better use. borque and gilroy have talent, but you have to give to get and those two are by no means kreider, stepan, grachev, McD
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
if that deal was on the table i snatch it up
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree here, that’s effectively nothing. It’s two guys that are, IMO, dead men walking in Gilroy and Rozsival, and Bourque’s already slipped.
That said, I don’t think it’s enough, but you could sell it to me at least, since Rozie’s salary is the kind of thing that fits well with Dallas’ budget.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
if they turned it down i would be willing to put werek in their as the prospect. with the money situation they are in, a top-4 dman for the next two yrs at 3.5 mil a yr is actually a good deal for them. then they get gilroy, who although didnt finish strong last yr, is still young and has lots of promise, plus a first rd pick.
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
No? Again comes the terrible argument: Why dump Redden’s salary in the minors just to take on an even greater salary?
The Rangers don’t need him, he’ll be a waste and the Rangers would be pushing back a year or two of prospect development.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
he's signed for one more yr
can you really compare that too redden’s 4 more years? not to mention at least you get some production from richars, you dont get a damn thing from redden. if richards and gabby connect and they each have magical 90+ pt seasons, awesome, resign richards. if it doesnt, we will have the money to resign dubi, cally and AA plus with money to spare
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
plus whose spot exactly would richards be taking next yr? stepan and grachev by most accounts need to spend the yr in hartford and krieder is going back to school. so whose spot is he taking, boyle or weise’s?
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
why give up a dman, and 1 or more prospects for just 1 year of richards?
if they allowed us to negotiate possible terms for an extension first (and he was willing) then maybe, but i wouldn’t trade for him unless that happened.
plus if staal does get 4 million, then even moving redden won’t cut it, they’d still be over the cap.
by Rags to riches? on Jul 23, 2010 1:08 PM EDT reply actions
Dallas would be below the cap floor, they still need to sign Neal but they could possibly want Rozi
Since the face been revealed the game got real
if they take him that answers the cap concern
but i still wouldn’t trade more then 1 prospect in the deal in case they can’t resign richards.
i guess it all depends on who and what they have to give up, and what richards would want for a new deal. if he would settle for something like 3-4 years for 6 million then fine, but i’m very concerned with the idea of trading any of our top prospects for a 30 year old.
by Rags to riches? on Jul 23, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
* if they take him that answers the cap concern
just to clarify, i was referring to the rozsival there.
by Rags to riches? on Jul 23, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
How is there a post yeseterday bashing
the idiotic shit that Eklund has been spewing, but today, we get a BB-generated shit rumor??
its not a shit rumor it actually makes sense for both sides unlike the the Gabby rumors.
Dallas gets some good pieces back for a guy that in all likely hood will walk at the end of the year. And we get our number 1 center.
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 23, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually this was confirmed by beat writer Andrew Gross. Secondly, don’t refer to the site as “shit”. If you have a problem, e-mail me.
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by Nick Montemagno on Jul 23, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
he didnt refer to the site as shit…he said shit rumor….big difference……
also, i checked gross’s site and twitter and couldn’t find anything related to richards. out of curiosity do you have a link?
finally, he has got a point as you guys were saying how the gabby deal should not even be mentioned it is so ridiculous, and its not worth talking about, but to many people this could be just as ridiculous, and some people might actually prefer the other scenario. Also, before I hear any Eklund crap he has already broken the news on the byfuglien/sopel deal and the gagne deal so clearly he is getting real information from somewhere. For that reason alone, that Eklund has legitimate NHL sources providing info, i would probably be more inclined to take the other rumor seriously then this one.
One more thing. If every deal made sense and was logical how did we get mcdonagh and higgins for gomez? How did we get rid of kotalik and get prust in the same deal?
Sorry for the rant guys, i apologize, just throwing a few points out there, not trying to be offensive
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jul 23, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Gross did say that the Rangers were kicking tires on Richards
and that he was an option that Sather was looking into. Ill try to find a link
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 23, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
In the short term, Kovalchuk’‘s decision – it’s ONLY July 19 – should finally spark the second wave of free-agent signings and the Rangers are still expected to make a move or two before the start of the season. For obvious reasons, the Rangers are linked with the Stars’ Brad Richards but the ex-Lightning is slated to make $7.8 million in the final year of his deal. Veteran ex-Devil UFA John Madden was also linked to the Rangers through various whispers but, to make it clear, any interest there would be from Madden’s camp. The Rangers do not consider him to be on their radar.
July 19th Ranger Rants
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
and from Zipay today
Dallas in bankruptcy. Richards highest-salaried player. UFA next year. Makes sense for him to be traded at some point. Only 30. Would fill need. I believe NYR will make run at him
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 23, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That makes Dallas sound more desperate.
I really wouldn’t mind him at the right cost.
by WalkerNYRanger on Jul 23, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
id love him, but i feel like we are buying a little too high.
you know what im saying?
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jul 23, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but depends what it costs. I hope sather understands that we finally got a few prospect that people want which should tell him something. I hope he doesn’t trade the core prospects for richards. But sather has made some good trades so, I am nervous waiting for the news to break.
Since the face been revealed the game got real
I said the rumor was shit
and Gross doesn’t confirm anything. You need to learn to read—it’s not fun getting warned for no reason.
All he says is “For obvious reasons, the Rangers are linked with the Stars’ Brad Richards but the ex-Lightning is slated to make $7.8 million in the final year of his deal.”
That says nothing about anyone from the Rangers or Stars confirming anything. At all. All it says that there’s a talented center in the final year of a deal, and that the Rangers are one of the teams who could possibly benefit from a talented center on a one year deal.
That’s the exact kind of shit that Eklund peddles—creating a ‘rumor’ by deciding what team has a player to spare and who can use said guy the most—and this site is perpetuating that shit. Gross said nothing of the sort. He just mention that they’ve been linked for obvious reasons
These talks came up last year
This time I say low ball the Stars. Offer Gilroy, Werek, 1st rndr, and a 3rd rounder. That’s as far as i’d go. THEN come the trade deadline…offer Werek or Borque, a 1st in 2012 and a 2nd in 2011. I think this is the best way to work because many teams will be selling at this time, so go for it at the right price.
by louielounz1 on Jul 23, 2010 2:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I gotta say, with all that we whine about needing centers, I hate the idea of giving up a 19 y.o. one in Werek.
In general, the idea of trading good futures for a 1 year contract makes me cringe though.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I would do it but it makes me uneasy as well.
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 23, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is… in trying to get younger. Teams with issues like the Stars will make it easy for a guy like Sather to make a good move for the team, but going against the youth movement in the process.
by louielounz1 on Jul 23, 2010 2:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As much we want to think all our prospects are great
Odds are that they’re not all gonna be. Hugh Jessiman was gonna be great too. Our scouting staff has to start figuring out who’s in the picture and who’s out, and hopefully we can find someone else who see’s something in the guys we don’t. How often when stars get traded for prospects in any sport, do you rememeber the names of the prospects?
by BuckarooClub on Jul 23, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
While i dont think its fair to compare anyone to jessiman, youre point is well taken. if the guys in our system were elite talents, they would already be on the team or a lock to be on the roster this year. our system looks great, dont get me wrong, but if a player as talented as richards is actually available you have to at least make an effort to get him. giving up middle to upper prospects is not a terrible thing here. i dont want to give away grach, stepan, krieder or McD but if richards could be had for some combination of werek, borque, gilroy and picks (not all of that but some combo) then i think its a no brainer.
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You can poach the Stars without needing to take on the cap burden of Richards though. As discussed, with Dallas’ salary issues….you can offer sheet for Neal, and front-load the hell out of the deal.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Louie, get your own avatar.
And I wouldn’t deal away Werek, maybe, worse comes to worst, Hagelin. Dallas would love a Lehtinen replacement …
I have a blog too! www.scottyhockey.com
Let's Go Rangers!
by Scotty Hockey on Jul 23, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Hagelin
He is the sleeper prospect that gets no respect
Year GP G A P PIM+/- PPG SHG GWG
2007-08 41 11 11 22 28 +18 1 1 3
2008-09 41 13 18 31 32 +19 1 2 4
2009-10 45 19 31 50 34 +20 5 2 1
Pretty solid improvement for a 6th round pick playing on a superior college team.
I’d love to have richards, but not just yet. I think the possible addition of Richards should depend upon where the Rangers stand nearing the trade deadline. We need to evaluate Dubi, Anisimov, Christiansen and others for a significant part of the season, as well as see where Grachev and Stephan are in their development (ahl or nhl). If the Rangers are contending for a playoff spot and feel the addition of Richards can truly help this club, then they can start looking at possible trade scenarios. In the meantime, dropping Redden and standing pat is the best option until we can figure out the best, most logical way of distributing Redden’s cap hit (so long as it doesn’t put this team in a bad situation once Redden’s salary comes back on the books at the end of the season before they have to dump him to the minors again).
With Richards we're putting alot of eggs in one basket
Richards and Gabby could be a great pair, but if Gabby goes down, all we have done is acquire another Scott Gomez. Everything last season pointed to Gabby being healed, but if you look at his career, it wouldn’t be the first time he followed up a career season with a injury washout.
Richards is a great center, and playmaker, but he doesn’t make his own goal. He plays best a winger who can finish, but can hurt you on his own if cheat to that winger and give him room. This isn’t a knock on Richards by anymeans, and he tends to put up more goals them Gomez. I’m saying, if Gabby goes down, I think Richards will struggle on his own. We signed Gomez, at similar money to Richards, and didn’t have a true scoring winger to go with him, and it didn’t work out so well.
While Gabby, Prospal and Christensen is the ideal situation, it got the job done. I would rather see us pursue a 2nd legitimate scoring threat. This would give our opponents two lines to deal with, and not allow them to key on Gabby the way they did late in the season.
Gabby Prospal and Christensen ISN'T the ideal situation
typo – sorry
by BuckarooClub on Jul 23, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
No it’s far from ideal, but it’s also a very short term solution. As in just this year.
To the same extent….I’d rather wait a year and just sign Thornton, who is just as good as Richards (actually better), will come with roughly the same cap hit, and doesn’t cost us all these picks and prospects people are willing to give up just to fix the 2010-2011 season.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
just so we’re clear: youre more willing to have sather go out on the UFA market next yr and negotiate/sign a big name free agent than use his only skill as a GM, trades, to make a deal this season? neither scenario is ideal but man does the second one sound better to me
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
When you have two players that are virtually identical production-wise, yes, I’d rather not pay more than money for them, even if it means having Sather f-ing around in UFA again.
Sather’s much better at acquiring the prospects than he is at getting value back for them.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
i think you logic makes perfect sense: why pay twice for a player, in prospects and then in a new contract. there is one massive complication though, sather on the UFA market changes the hole game lol
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Well…lest we forget (as Mike just reminds), Richards is a UFA at year end anyway. So at some point Sather has to negotiate with him, and so now you have Sather on the UFA market, AND giving up prospects.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
But I would love it if Sather could move a few of our top prospescts into one, great young player, and then we could bring in Thornton or Richards as a FA next year, or consider moving for them at the deadline, if we are in the hunt – and that will still probably be a big IF.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 23, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, you still want Ryan. I still want Neal. I’d rather give up picks than established prospects.
Eventually..something is going to break the dam with our D prospects..we have like 10 defenseman right now of various degrees. That’s where you’re going to see something move. Based on Sather’s comments from the other thread, you can be all but assured that Stepan-Kreider-Grachev-and McDonagh are all considered untouchable right now.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Granted it wont be this season, but hopefully Grachev can develop into a dominant presence with his size and skill set. Maybe someone will surprise us and take some pressure off of Gaborik this season. Gaborik still managed to score over 40 goals with a target on his back and minimal support. If guys like Dubi, Cali, and even Drury (yes I said Drury b/c I believe he can and will rebound) can step up with at least 25 goals, and Anisimov can increase his number to 20, Gaborik will have more space to shoot and pass.
by motherpucker on Jul 23, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Give us Staal and Del Zotto and you can have him :P
In all seriousness, though, that’s about what it would take I think. And a pick. Though I’m still optimistic we’ll re-sign B-Rad at some point once our ownership situation clears up.
sather would be chased down 7th ave by an angry mob with pitchforks if he ever made that deal
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
haha if that happens I quit being a Ranger fan, two young up and coming D-men for a 30 year old center for one year, thats crazy.
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 23, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
not just up and coming- those two are going to be our #1 pairing for the next decade
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, maybe not both, but it would probably take one of them. More than likely Del Zotto.
If you can’t tell, we’re a bit starved for defense here haha. But like I said, I don’t see any reason why we wouldn’t re-sign him after we get a new owner…but who knows. If you get him, you’re getting a monster of a player if you can re-sign him.
I think at this point in his career, being cheaply signed on his EL deal for the next two years, MDZ is as untouchable as anyone on our roster. it would be crazy to give away that kind of offensive production on the blueline coming from a 20 yr old.
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Hm, you might be right, I'm not as familiar with it as you guys obviously are.
Del Zotto just came to mind first, because I figured Staal was untouchable. I just know that if the two teams talked, both of those two will be at the top of the wish list for us, of course. Whether or not the Rangers actually consider dealing them is another matter. I would assume NYR would have to be certain they could re-sign him before they considered trading Del Zotto.
that was supposed to be a reply to smurfs comment below
by BronxBeliever on Jul 23, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t want to trade them, that’s why I ignored them….they were part of the next wave lol
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Defense we have by the bucket full…you can have Gilroy, Girardi, Sauer, and Maggio. Two NHL, two prospects. There are more if that’s not enough.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Girardi was a name thrown around DBD a few times when the Ribeiro trade rumors were everywhere.
I bet Dallas would ask for the availiability of Staal and Del Zotto first, then probably settle for a Girardi and Sauer and a pick, or some other combination. That all depends on if we have sold the team by then…if not, I don’t know how both sides work out a trade. Lots of possibilities though.
While you’re here…how frightened is DBD of Neal getting offer sheeted? How about Niskanen and Grossman? (speaking of defense)
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really too worried.
We assume that the last few weeks Neal’s agent has been sniffing around for offer sheets and hasn’t found one yet. The deal is that he wants a front-loaded contract, and we can’t do that right now with the ownership. So really both sides are just playing chicken….and usually the agents balk first. We’ve kinda gotten used to the idea that this drags on through training camp, but that he’ll get signed. Both sides want a contract here, just on opposite sides in terms of money and length. Grossman we’ve heard less about, but our local beat writer said this morning that the two sides are talking and things are moving. So I guess on both sides we’re not all that worried.
But I guarantee there will be chaotic anger if we lose Neal somehow.
That’s pretty interesting…I’ve thought the easiest way to get him was to price your team out of the negotiations by front loading it.
An offer sheet of something ridiculous where the first two years are like $7m each, keep the total price under a 1st and 3rd. (like 7-7-3.5-3.5-3.5-3-3). So that Neal is looking for that type of deal is interesting to me.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that's just it. If you give him an offer sheet, I'm pretty sure GM Joe will try to match it.
We’re looking for a two-year deal for him, I think he wants four or five with money up front, like 4.5 million. With the two-year deal, we can get our ownership changed and THEN extend him a couple years. But if you offer him a sheet like the one you proposed, I doubt the Stars would be able to match it…but I don’t know how many teams would actually offer that. Neal isn’t exactly a proven player yet. Now that I think about it though, I do think it’s more about years than it is money, though the Stars would have to convince him to let them backload it first.
This guy does a better job of explaining it than I can:
Funny…was just about to say that I think there’s alot of similarity between Neal and Ryan, yet Ryan would command more money b/c of his PP output.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. And, y'know, because he's Bobby Ryan. haha.
Anaheim can’t afford to lose him….but the Stars could easily let Neal sit out a year if it gets that bad and plug in Jamie Benn or even Fabian Brunnstrom or another one of our billions of left handed left wingers and we’d be fine. Neal doesn’t have much leverage, if you put it that way. Heika’s right in saying it’s better for Neal to sign a contract, have a great season and cash in later.
Gotcha.
So what I read here, Neal’s expendable and you’ll give him to us for 60 cents on the dollar. Excellent! lol
In all seriousness, it’s a pretty intriguing situation you’ve got with him. Thanks for the info, it’s always good to get the perspective from the other side of things.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What if the Rangers just agreed to pick up the rest of Avery’s salary?
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Jul 23, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be amazing. And y'know what, I bet that would be part of the deal.
But you’d have to send some contracts/money back, wouldn’t you? That’s a 7 million dollar cap hit and the rest of Avery’s salary you’re taking on then. I don’t know much about the NYR cap situation other than it’s tight.
I would be all over Girardi, Sauer and a pick for Richards.
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 23, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Who would fill 7th the D slot?
Losing Girardi would be harder than some people think.
Taking on Richards’ contract would necesitate that Redden be dumped in Hartford.
That leaves Gilroy, MDZ, Staal, Rozy, Eminger and McDonagh? That’s a light defensive unit.
It would be hard but it might be worth it.
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 23, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that cap space grows on trees..but there are defenseman out there that could cover Girardi’s role. Grebeskov, Mitchell, Mottau, or Sutton, any would be fine for a year or two.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Love Mitchell but even coming off a concussion, he won’t come cheap.
I have a blog too! www.scottyhockey.com
Let's Go Rangers!
by Scotty Hockey on Jul 23, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
All of those guys should command roughly Girardi’s salary, give or take $500k. You would still need to free up money besides Redden to faciliate Richards, just saying that there are solutions out there if you had to move Girardi.
I don’t actually think they’d trade Girardi right now anyway.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Burying Redden’s salary in the minors, trading Girardi’s to Dallas, signing Staal for 4.5 mil, and taking on Richards’s 7.8 mil leaves us with just 665,883 of space.
We would have zero room to sign another Dman to fill Girardi’s role unless we dropped more salary like a forward to go along with the picks/prospects/Girardi to Dallas.
Well then we have no room for Richards even without trading Girardi.
I’m assuming that Girardi/replacement are a wash, so it’s adding Richards, demoting Redden, and signing Staal.
If that doesn’t actually work, then this is sort of futile. They do currently have 13 forwards though, Richards would be 14, so someone would go.
Well, that someone is Brashear, but I dunno how much of his money comes off…I thought I saw the whole thing comes off now that he was demoted once, that might be wrong though.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Brash's money will never come off until it expires.
We don’t have the cap space to resign staal and add Richards’ salary. We would have to lose about 2-3 million in active cap salary to be able to fit in Richards.
it's doable
but it would require sending some current roster players to dallas.
Probably Rozsival since his cap hit is in the realm of 5mil and his actual salary is around 3mil. Dallas is under the cap floor but they are underwater when it comes to ownership issues.
no way especially after we just re-signed him
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 23, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say Rozsival...
But even with the high cap hit and low actual salary he might be attractive to Dallas. I just fear we would have to give up much more prospects to go along with Rozy.
I think Sauer is full time minor leaguer. Just saying, if someone wanted him, all they would have to do is give him a shot to crack the bigs. He resigned w rangers seeing the log jam in front of him, so I’m guessing there wasn’t much interest. That’s just spec on my part though.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 23, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Sauer was an RFA, Rangers retained his rights, gave him a qualifying offer. So unless a team was going to offer sheet Sauer (not likely), he wasn’t really going anywhere.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
No No NO
no to richards… yea he’s got great play making skills, but to give up a top prospect for a guy who will be here for 1 year? No point… Move on let the youth fill the roster…
Play
with the team as is this year.
Try to sign Richards in the off season next year when he hits the FA market.
You can have Nylander back, if you’re in need of a play-maker!
I'm gonna pain you dearly Woodhouse, when I peel all your skin off with a flensing knife, sew it into Woodhouse pajamas, and then set those pajamas on fire.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Jul 23, 2010 3:55 PM EDT reply actions
Take Redden and you have a deal!
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh come on, Nylander’s contract is bad, but it’s not that bad.
I'm gonna pain you dearly Woodhouse, when I peel all your skin off with a flensing knife, sew it into Woodhouse pajamas, and then set those pajamas on fire.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Jul 23, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said it was. But the only way I want Nylander is if you take Redden’s shitty deal.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahah I love how everyone and their mom knows how bad Reddens contract lol
by teknics on Jul 23, 2010 5:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sorry...
I haven’t been able to read every single one of these posts just a handful. If someone said this already I apologize.
It sounds to me like Sather is pretty committed to the youth movement. He’s not going to trade a Stepan/Grachev or McD for Richards. He’s just as excited as we are, if not more excited, to see these kids develop. I say more excited because last year everyone was calling for his head because he didn’t pull the trigger. Yea, everyone is also mad about the Redden and Drury contracts, but he brought those guys in here to stabilize the club until the youth movement was complete. He put a lot of eggs in Jagr and really tried to structure a club that could make a run for the cup. That took several years and didn’t work and now he’s rebuilding. Why would he scrap that for Richards? If he’s going to scrap that plan then he might as well go with Kovy, trade away the youth and shoot for the cup in two years. That’s not going to happen.
d
Are we really going through this rumor again? I didn’t think it would happen a year ago, and I still believe that it won’t happen now.
Here's to all us girls who love hockey...and the men who play it.
by Brad_Richards_Rocks on Jul 23, 2010 4:59 PM EDT reply actions
What's up with these posts lately.
It’s the offseason. What else do we have to do but speculate and daydream about possible moves.
It’s so irritating that people have to add these types of posts in.
Something tells me youre a little bit extra worried about this rumor
Favre 4 Ever
I Believe In Chris Drury
I’ll be worried if he’s not re-signed by the trade deadline. It wouldn’t make much sense to trade him now unless the return was Staal or a prospect.
Here's to all us girls who love hockey...and the men who play it.
by Brad_Richards_Rocks on Jul 25, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, of course Redden was a bust and I bet he’d like to kick Redden out of here as much as we do. He never even utters the guy’s name anymore as far as I can tell. Trust me, Sather hates Redden (at least as a hockey player and boss…in terms of charity and stuff Redden sounds like he’s a good guy).
Drury was brought here at least in part to help nurture the youth. He’s a role model on the ice in terms of work ethic and responsible hockey. look how good he worked with Cally.
DUMB
We arent winning the cup this year and we dont need over the hill fragile players to underachieve that we can kepe for a year and dump at the cost of youth and my sanity….Jesus H. Christ!!! Sather is a moron… Only way is if we swap one of the R$R sisters for him… Otherwise this is dumb
In 94 I thought i could die in peace... Now I watch a ranger game and just want to die.
richards
Lets let some of are young players develop for a change.
is
there a credible source out there that states the Rangers are pursuing Richards?
I can’t seem to find one.
The other problem I have this stupid garbage is that the Stars actually kind of need Richards, considering Modano won’t be back.
Ribeiro, Ott and Peterson are not exactly big time offensive weapons. The Stars need Richards more than the pile of prospects the Rangers would give, not to mention the cap implications regarding such a trade.
I would say that I wish I could get my time back for reading this post, but these posts fuel the endless speculation of Ranger fans wanting other teams players.
Hate to break it to you, but Modano isn’t exactly an offensive juggernaut anymore. He had 30 points in 59 games. They need Richards because he is coming off 91 points in 80 games. And read the Gross and Zipay quotes above about the credible source.
by WalkerNYRanger on Jul 23, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Break it to
me?
lol
Modano is old yes, but he’s a more gifted offensive player than Peterson, and a better play maker than Ott .
by Peterman700 on Jul 24, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Perspective
For everyone who is concerned we won’t “give the kids a chance”, here’s something to chew on. Look at the numbers Hall & Seguin put up in Juniors last year, and chances are they’re going to struggle at the NHL level this season. Hall will get to play ALOT cause Edmonton BLOWS, and Seguin will get 3rd line mins on a decent team. Has anyone in our system put up numbers like that? Look at what our prospects did at the NCAA level, with a shorter less demanding schedule then juniors or any pro level. Compare those numbers to what a player like Heatley or Parise did in college. The fact of the matter is that these guys are a long way from being NHL ready. We need a core to plug them in around if we want them to be succesfull.
Depending on how much PP time and production Heatley/Parise had, Kreider may be comparable, despite the difference in their total numbers.
And why would you say Hall is going to struggle? Are you saying Tavares struggled?
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW
Good Post Nick. I noticed we have many haters here nowadays. For the record all rumors i’ve seen on this site from when I joined last summer from an ADMIN… HAVE ALWAYS existed to a degree and actually hold weight. Just thought I’d school you newcomers.
Go get Richards
I have been going to the Rangers games in Tampa for the last ten years. Richards goal scoring could increase on the right team. He is deadly from the slot on the power play. I think if you could take on the salary without sending much cash back it can be done. I think it could get done with Gilroy, a second round pick, and a second tier defensive prospect. Any cash Hicks can pull from the Stars, he will, to save his other businesses.
You’re not allowed to pay other team part of the salary in the NHL CBA
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 24, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Hall will get his mins, and his points, like Tavares did, in a losing effort. He’ll get lots of ice cause there’s no better option to give those mins too.His 54 points were nice, but the -15 says something about his overall game last season as well. Stamkos put up 46 points his rookie year, and it was considered a disaster. The guys are all #1 overall picks – not 2nd and 3rd rounders.
I’m not trying to knock these guys, I’m just trying to illustrate how huge the step is. I think that gets lost sometimes. Kreider’s final numbers last season were close to Toews his rookie year at UND. The thing that worries me a bit about Kreider is how much of that scoring came in one big hot streak after the World Juniors. He should be looking at top 6 mins and competition this year at BC, and he comes out of the gate will tell alot. Of our whole prospect pool Kreider is the one I would be the LEAST willing to part with. He was a late bloomer in HS, has incredible tools (size, speed) and hopefully the late season surge was a sign of him making a quick jump to the college level, as opposed to a “hot streak”.
Regarding PP time, the talent pool is so spread out at the Junior/NCAA level that coaches are giving the PP mins to who they can identify as the top players. You are taking 4 Junior leagues, 5 Main NCAA confrences, and a group of young players on European leagues and spreading all the top prospects out over those teams. There are so many players on those teams who will skate in a single NHL game, a player who will become even an average NHL talent, should possess enough of a skill set to DOMINATE at those levels. If you’re not getting PP mins, it’s not cause the coach doesn’t like you, it’s cause there’s better options. But NCAA hockey especially, gives plenty of opportunity for the cream to rise to the top.
Living Beyond our Means
Sure, Brad Richards is a fine player who could help the Rangers offensively. We simply cannot afford him. His cap hit is too high and he becomes a free agent in a year. Any deal would have to allow the Rangers to shed a comparable amount of cap space. I don’t see that happening. Who else would want Drury, Rozi or Redden and their obscene contracts? We simply cannot afford Richards. I would rather have Kovalchuck than Richards, but we cannot afford him either.
richards
grabbing richards WOULD make the rangers a contender, not just because of his abilities, but his experience and leadership, plus dubinsky and callahan would learn a ton from him as well. SATHER….GRABBBBB HIM! LOL
you mean Dubi or Callahan...
cuz one’s likely going to Dallas, if they do this.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 24, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
trading any of our young players for Richards is stupid
it really is
Anisimov is gonna be a real good player watch
MZA is gonna be a scorer and playmaker and is gonna be fun to watch
personally he is my fav offseason addition
Stepan Grachev need to be on this team like now
with all that youth we have a solid team in the future with really good lines
and no I wouldnt trade Callhan or Dubinsky for a 1 year stop gap player in Richards
we have too many Centers as it is
I would definatly wait until the season starts to find out where are at with the cap. Trading away our youngsters would be taking steps backwards. Unless they can work up another “Gomez” salary dump trade.
by Beukeboom hockey on Jul 25, 2010 8:27 PM EDT reply actions
Richards would be a great pick up, but the cap would make it a difficult trade. Even with Redden being sent down as it stands now there is only 2.2 million in space and Staal needs to be resigned. You would have to send back players that add up to a similar number. You would have to do something that gets rid of some dead weight maybe Girardi, Cally, Boyle and Brashear.
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