Rangers Analysis: Planning for the Future
by Nick Montemagno on Jul 5, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
in New York Rangers Analysis
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PrintThe New York Rangers made numerous moves last Thursday on the first day of free agency in the National Hockey League - they re-signed two of their own and brought in two others. Dan Giradi and Marc Staal remain to be re-signed, but they are all restricted free agents so GM Glen Sather can take all the time he needs with that. Despite the face changes, the Rangers seem to be right where they were just a couple of months ago as far as their roster goes. Yes, adjustments were made and some needs were fulfilled, but overall this team has not changed. That is not necessarily a bad thing either.
Assuming all of the players mentioned above are re-signed before October, the only swaps we have seen to this point are Jody Shelley with Derek Boogaard and Alex Auld with Martin Biron. Contract terms aside, these are not extraordinary additions that will improve the club. Because of this, you are basically staring at the same roster that was eliminated by the Philadelphia Flyers in early April during the final game of the regular season. We again will see that 7th-11th place team take the ice for another year unless something earth-shattering happens within the next two months (i.e. Ilya Kovalchuk).
Now here's the thing - and this goes back to what I have been saying for a while now - if none of Derek Stepan, Ryan McDonagh, or any of the other NHL-ready prospects are worked into the lineup for 2010-11, the Blueshirts have not made any progress whatsoever. Right now there main objective is to introduce a new young core that is going to start with guys like Derek Stepan, who have proven they are very skilled players with unlimited potential. In order to do that, head coach John Tortorella needs to find ways to incorporate some of these youngsters into the lineup beginning now, and continue to do so for years to come.
Continue reading after the jump.....
To me, it seems as if Torts is fully willing to do that. Sather has given him the 'okay' to go ahead and hold an open training camp where pretty much anyone who impresses has a shot at cracking the lineup. If that means waiving Wade Redden because a McDonagh or Valentenko beats him out, then so be it. The future is now and the Rangers cannot afford to waste precious time and rare opportunity.
The Blueshirts have one of the better systems in the NHL when it comes to their prospects. They have more depth than most organizations and the plan is to eventually bring that depth to the professional level where they will have the chance to develop into a solid contending squad. This is the process that the Chicago Blackhawks had to go through. This is the process the Pittsburgh Penguins had to go through. This is the process the Washington Capitals had to go through. Well, look how those teams turned out. Just look at them now and for once, imagine the Rangers finally being that good.
If things are handled properly, in two to three years, they will be that good. They will be making the Conference Finals and battling for a chance to win the Stanley Cup for the first time in over a decade. A winning culture can be brought back to the city of New York as long as these young players are brought up as soon as possible.
Chemistry is a big factor in championship teams, and the only way to develop chemistry is by playing together for a long period of time. At prospect development camp this past week, Derek Stepan, Ryan Bourque, Evgeny Grachev, Chris Kreider, and Ryan McDonagh have already begun talking about being friends and how much of a pleasure it would be to play together. Heck, Grachev was already referring to Stepan as his linemate. That is what you want to see, and you can only imagine the magic those two will make while skating beside each other.
As Herb Brooks once said "Great moments are born from great opportunity." That is what the Rangers have here. They have great opportunity to slowly but surely become a contending team again. One that will actually have fans at the edge of their seats instead of slouched down ashamed to show their faces. Whether management and staff realize that, I cannot confirm for you, but I will say that is the correct direction to move this team in. It is the right way of doing things and it will eventually lead to success on the ice of Madison Square Garden; something we are not used to at all.
This is where we have to have faith in our management. I know it is a hard thing to do, but one thing I have come to find out while becoming more and more popular as a blogger and meeting more and more fans; this fanbase is one of the smartest and more aware fanbases in all of sports. That gives me confidence that when I write stories like the one you just spent several minutes of your life reading, you take from it and understand my points whether you agree with me or not.
But you have to believe me here. This is the only way to ever bring a cup back to New York. Free agency will not do it, trades will not do it. It is all about bringing homegrown talent up to the NHL level and allowing them to develop. If the Rangers can do that, they have an unmeasurable advantage over a majority of the league. They can do this, it is very possible. Trust me.
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Basically
Sather and the coaches are “hoping” that the prospects you inferred will progress and step up.
I would assume that Aasen would score some points…and either Grachev or Stepan will stick with the Rangers.
I think a lot of people on BB underestimate the level of prospects that are Grachev and Stepan. The team is very high on both of them.
Prospal – Dubinsky – Gaborik
Grachev – Drury – Callahan
Avery -Stepan – Aasen
Boogard – Anismov – Prust
EC
i think Christensen is best served in a specialist role.
I like some of the things he brings, but he isn’t a natural center.
I guess I can only hope Stepan plays his way on the roster.
While both are outstanding prospects, unless they lost faith in Hartford developing Grachev properly, he’s likely to start the year down, and Stepan will need an outstanding camp to crack the lineup this year, and even then he might get shipped down if Grachev goes, so they can start getting 15-20 a night together.
Both will be here, maybe even mid-season, but I’d rate them underdogs to be on the opening day roster.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I doubt that Grachev would be on the second line, or that Stepan would center the third over Anisimov.
well
if Stepan and or Grachev make the team, they won’t get 4th line duty.
There is no point keeping them in NY for 5-7 minutes of IT.
Fine logic, except that Anisimov would probably have an edge over Stepan, especially since he has a full year under his belt and produced with limited ice time. If anything, Grachev would line up with Anisimov on the third line, presuming
Dubinsky- Christensen- Gaborik
Prospal- Drury- Callahan
or some combination thereof.
Except Dru could get buried on the 4th…and you can go Prospal-EC-Gaborik and Dubi-AA-MZA, then have Avery-Stepan-Callahan.
Anyway you really slice it, there’s not really room for Grachev and Stepan because of the Prospal/EC signings.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i think this is whats gonna happen...
the rangers will be a sub .500 team by the trade deadline (hopefully this means we’re selling)…and prospal will have a mediocre year and will get traded for a pick to a contender…avery i think will be back to his old self and possibly be in trouble again with the league…he might get suspended or demoted to 4th line duty…so i think by the second half of the season stepan and grachev will be up with the rangers after a productive first half in the ahl
Do you really think they’d drop Drury to the 4th line?I think we’re all assuming that MZA will make the big club outright, but he may start in Hartford with Stepan (again, age… can he start in Hartford, or does he have to be 21?) I’m not sure who would be on the roster above him, but I don’t really trust Tortorella.
He says he wants the team to get younger but , in my opinion, he mishandled both Gilroy and especially Lisin, whose development and psyche were probably severely hampered by his treatment.
I hope the same isn’t done to the other Rangers prospects.
in my opinion, he mishandled both Gilroy and especially Lisin, whose development and psyche were probably severely hampered by his treatment.
are we sure they were mishandled? Or maybe they couldn’t handle themselves and a rigorous NHL coach? I can’t say for sure… but I’ve seen a lot of people on here make the assumption that Torts is at fault. I don’t think anyone can say for sure.
They’re supposed to be hockey players, supposed to be tough. Torts has a history of making players better, but neither Gilroy nor Lisin has a history of success at the NHL level.
After seeing AA’s progression this year, I trust Tortarella, even though he may not be for everyone.
That’s true enough, that it may be that they couldn’t handle yourself. It seemed to me though, that of the four youngsters- Gilroy, Lisin, Del Zotto, and Anisimov- only Del Zotto didn’t have his ice time and role shuffled so much. That Anisimov still succeeded speaks to his character. I’m not sure that can be attribiuted to Tortorella.
Even at the beginning of the season, he created a pseudo- beef with Dubinsky, just because he sat out camp because he didn’t have a contract. That bull-headedness I could see informing his coaching decisions and management of the youth on his team.
Again though, you make a valid point… I guess we’ll see how he handles the prospects that come up this year.
true – certainly DZ was the most solid example. But really, if you look at AA’s ice time, it increased over the year… AND Torts started putting him in more pressure situations and more defensive situations. I think it’s that they were working on his two-way game all year in practice, and we saw the benefits of it by the end of the year, when AA became at least twice as effective in his own zone, than at the start of the year.
but you’re right – we don’t know for sure – I just reacted because I’ve seen that a lot on this site the past several months, and I don’t think we can say “Torts can’t develop youngsters” with any real certainty.
I like the optomism, I really do – and it does appear we’re getting stacked with some highly talented prospects. I’m just not convinced, when push comes to shove, that Torts (and Slather) will move aside the high-priced vets in favor of youth. These kids need ice time and a patient management team that’s willing to lose if necessary in the short term for the long term benefit of building a winner. If this is the route we’re going, let’s fully commit already and target 2012-2014 as when we’ll make our run.
by schwartzy on Jul 5, 2010 7:29 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agreed
I like the prospects that are on their way, but our biggest deficiency is in the GM role, and we can’t do anything to replace that. When push comes to shove, will Sather screw this all up? Unfortunately, that is what I am worried about.
by YanksGiantsRangersKnicks on Jul 5, 2010 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Although i do agree w/ this post and every1's comments out here.....Nick I must say
that when you say the Rangers can be THAT good…..referring to the Hawks, Pens n Caps i just dont know about that. Although I do believe we do have talent coming I just dont think it is top end talent like Toews,Crosby, Ovie, Kane, Malkin or Semin…etc……Im hoping we can be that good….I just dont know. But U guys r right……..move the vets aside n let the kids drive the bus……let them take they’re lumps, grow together n eventually become a really good team……………..there can be a light at the end of this dark, Ranger tunnel…………
they need at least one
probably 2, great players in there. That’s where these teams outclass the others. They have their slough of good young players, but they at least have 2 great players..forwards, in there.
And its really not a coincidence that Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin, Toews and Kane were all top 5 picks. And probably Semin only fell cuz he’s Russian.
I think the Rangers have a solid backline in the future, but who’s gonna be the leaders up from? Or are we just gonna have a bunch of 2nd liners instead of 3rd?
KEEP LEE!!!
Giants Let me spin you a tale ... lol
Grachev would have easily been a 1st round choice is he wasnt injured his draft year. He will be a superstar, maybe not a top 3 in the NHL player but thats for Gabby to take care of lol.
Stepan has done nothing but get better and better, and was the leading scorer at the WJC, that includes better than 1st overall pick Taylor Hall.
And Kreider is still very young and he had 6 goals in the world juniors! That was close to the top if I’m not mistaken.
Anisimov will only get better, Del Zotto put up 40 points as a 19 year old, imagine what he can do at 23!
And finally Zucrello Assen is going to be a superstar for this team. He put up more than a point per game against men, not boys, in the second best hockey league in the world (or close to it).
Trust me guys we have HUGE payoffs coming
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 5, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah the caps have ovechkin, backstrom semin green…..pens have malkin goligowski, staal and crosby……blackhawks have kane, toews, keith, seabrook, and at the time vertseeg and byufglien……….we have grachev, stepan, MDZ, staal and other prospects. they don’t strike the fear in the eye like the other teams
You forgot Gaborik, Lundqvist, Staal, Girardi, Callahan, Dubinsky….
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by Nick Montemagno on Jul 5, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
We won’t be as good as them pound for pound, BUT we will be as good as them in other ways. Right off the bat, we have better goaltending than all three of those teams, and that is what carries a team to the Cup.
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by Nick Montemagno on Jul 5, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
True............
although we do have some really good player prospects………..what we dont have are absolute stars………
by giantsNYrangers on Jul 5, 2010 10:05 AM EDT reply actions
at least that we know of...
like Joe mentioned, Grachev has legit potential. Stepan and Krieder competed and more then held their own against the best of their age groups.
Still…be nice to figure a way to get a player like a Toews.
KEEP LEE!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 5, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Well....
I like the theory behind the article. But the reality is that only one rookie forward will make the big club this year out of camp, otherwise Christensen and Prospal would have never been signed. There is only 1 open spot unless someone gets waived , demoted, or traded. And I think if any trades were going to happen, they’d have happened before the draft or before UFA began.
Personally, I think Byers makes the team and eveyone else goes back down.
Even if one player makes it, that is progress. Then the next season you bring up 2 or 3. Then 3 or 4 the next. It is a process.
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by Nick Montemagno on Jul 5, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately that's not the way we won in '94
Other than 2, 27 and 35, young talent (Weight, Amonte, etc) was traded for proven vets. The history of this franchise says that the prospects will not be around forr “the run.” Does the cap change this philsophy? Maybe.
Seoncd, you’ve got to figure that there are other teams who feel the same way about their prospects. Its a long way from potential to the Blackhawks.
I agree that MZA should be a really good player . So I think that addition will make the team better this year. I hope the same is true for the others, while they are in our uniform
But I’ve seen to much to expect that the kids will be around for long. Skepticism is a burden.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Jul 5, 2010 11:01 AM EDT reply actions
Winning in ’94 and winning in 2010 decade is much much much different. That was a different game back then. The sport has changed drastically and different tools are needed to be successful.
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by Nick Montemagno on Jul 5, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Forgot Zubov.
As Nick said, it’s apples and oranges these days…it’s a different story now when you can’t load up a roster at the deadline like Smith did, because cap numbers make everything much, much harder. The way you win now is with young talent playing on bargain deals. The prospects give us that window.
Yeah, you might see one or two of them moved if they make a serious run, but most of them should be here for a while.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
But its a short run
because they all become UFAs at about the same time. Chicago is dumping salary as we speak. The mix is a longer term solution because teams need to let older players go as young ones come on line. Otherwise, you core gives you cap issue at or just after a success.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Jul 5, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
good point
thats a great point but instead of letting the young talent play out Sather signs the vets other teams release. he has no gameplan
Chicago ran into problems because Tallon repeatedly overpaid for middle level talent, and that came to a head this year.
Sather would never …..oh crap.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
It sounds like...
what this amounts to is that being a GM is a much more difficult job than it used to be back in ‘94. It also makes being a backseat driver much more fun…there’s so much to second guess at.
Only one team wins the cup every year. And this year it wasn’t Pittsburgh, Washington or San Jose.
Bob Gainey was run out of Montreal because all the fans were furious that he had assembled such a small team. He resigned in early February and in the middle of the playoff run fans were holding up signs that said “thank you Gainey!”
d
SORRY CANT REMEBER WHO SAID THIS IN A PREVIOUS POST “CHEMISTY IS NEEDED TO FORM A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM”…….I AGREE COMPLETELY…..BUT UNFORTUNATELY W/ TURDORELLA COACHING THIS TEAM, THERE WILL BE NO CHEMISTY B/C HE NEVER ALLOWS ANYONE TO PLAY TOGETHER ON A LINE FOR MORE THAN 10 SECONDS……HOW ARE THE PLAYERS GONNA FORM ANY KIND OF CHEMISTRY W/ THE CONSTANT LINE CHANGES………..JUST A QUESTION
never understood how you can't notice the capital letters...
KEEP LEE!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 5, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s the opposite form of those who never capitalize a thing. Caps Lock is an elusive key.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks Nick!
I LOVED this blog. This first straight-forward assessment I’ve read in a minute of what’s going on in Rangerville.
Of course we’re going to try and stay competitive in the meantime…but our goal right now is laying the foundation for 2013-14.
We’ll see…
d
Thanks
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by Nick Montemagno on Jul 6, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed
I agree completely. Why not bring up the kids now? They aren’t going to be any worse than Redden. I have no doubt in my mind that Sather is going to mess this all up and trade these top prospects for some over the hill veteran to get the 6th spot in the playoffs this year becausde that is the type of idiot he is. Its painful to watch Sather destroy what has a chance to be a special team.
dont forget the blackwahks and especially the penguins through 5 seasons in a row to get the top picks.. we didnt have to do that and still drafted great prospects
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
agreed
i agree but theres no use in having great prospects if you are not going to let them play and plan accordingly. Giving Redden years is not planning accordingly. Plus Torts does not seem like the developing kids type of coach. He’ll prolly bench them after their 1st mistake.
more of a mix...
but 2 of the best players on the team were Lecavalier and Brad Richards, both 23 at the time.
KEEP LEE!!!
kids
I would love to see this team dump prospal, avery,
Dubi – Christansen – Gabby
Callahan – Stepan – Aasen
Grachev – Anisimov – x (training camp spot)
BoogarMan – Drury – Prust
Staal – Girardi
MDZ – Gilroy
McDonaugh – x
drafting
Ya because Gordie Clark is in charge of the draft not Sather.
drafting
Ya because Gordie Clark is in charge of the draft not Sather.
lineup
eventually Krieder, Borque, Werek and Pashin/McIllrath will take the spots of Drury, Christansen, and Girardi. Thats a pretty good lineup in front of Lundqvist
It must be my optimisim
or the drugs waring off … but I see this team making noise in a year or two.
No need to sign big names, just have faith that our prospects can have chemistry with each other and go from there. We have a special team on our hands if our prospects make the team. We will have the skill and leadership abilities that our U-20 US team did with most of our players being on the same roster. They’ll be monsters in the league!!
lol
i hope your right. I have faith in the prospects. Just not in Sather.
I really wish they could get rid of Avery some way, He is a complete waste of space now, he doesn’t do anything and he wastes a perfect roster spot for a Grachev to fill.
true
atleast they dont owe him 6.5mil for another what 5 years? hes easy to dump. avery is not the problem here. i don’t mind them starting the season with Avery and Prospal, just dump them if they don’t produce (which you know Sather won’t do) and let the kids play
slight highjack. ok, i have been pretty calm about the fact kovy hasnt signed yet but supposedly he is deciding today and LA is talking like their out, doesnt seem like he wants to go to the dump in LI. hopefully we arent actually in this. back to regular programming.
It’s the Souray situation with 5x the talent and twice the pricetag. Calm doesn’t count until he signs.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed. always assumed he would eventually end up in LA, but lombardi stuck to his guns.
now if lombardi turns around and trades for some contract like vinny than i will call him a moron for taking on a deal like that, but right now at least he is doing a very good job sticking to his plans.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
deciding today? didn’t realized there was a timetable… I figured he’d take a month and then settle on KHL.
Is there really a legitimate chance the he joins the Rangers? I can’t see how it happens, especially since he’d have to accept less money.
Earlier
in the comments somebody wrote we don’t have the big time players like OV, Semin, Backstrom, Malkin, Crosby, Toews, Kane, Keith… i would say we do have our stars… and one major advantage over those teams because we have Lundqvist… while not being an offensive dynamo he is a top 5 goalie in the league… What don’t the Pens, Caps, and Hawks have? Goaltending… and Fleury showed this year just how good of a goalie he isn’t, no rob scuderi this year to make saves for him and bail him out…
What i’m trying to say is we have or own superstars, in Lundqvist and Gaborik… who knows what Staal prime will bring? That goes for any of our prospects… I would be inclined to include staal in our group of stars… The hardest thing for a team is to find a great goalie, and we have one… we have a scorer, we have our leadership (although in question) in drury, we have some grit, what we need is the scoring depth and some more defense, which we have plenty or prospects to fill those gaps, so in 4 years there is no reason not to expect a great team given our prospects assumed success…
it was me who said it...
and Henrik cant score goals or make the first pass to our forwards…while we do have goaltending which those teams don’t we don’t have scorers that they do…believe me i would happy as anything to be proven wrong, trust me on that one
basically what i was saying is that we do have the stars in the making, and we didn’t tank for 10 years to do it… exaggeration of course… Ovechkin is a one of a kind player, same with the two in pittsburgh although i don’t think highly of crosby, thats beside the point… but where did the caps go this year? how about the pens? the only team that made it through of the three was the hawks who had to get rid of everybody because of the cap, they had the depth, but no goaltending, and they scored 4-7 goals a night to win because they didn’t have a strong goaltender… if the rangers could score 3 goals a game on average we would have won a ton of games because of Lundqvist, i find it hard to believe the hawks maintain that average after losing all those players because of the cap, the capitals are in the same boat, and they don’t win games when they can’t score 3-6 goals, lundqvist proved that… and halak reaffirmed that…
What don’t the Pens, Caps, and Hawks have? Goaltending
Funny, I could of swore 2 of those teams won the Stanley Cup.
by NTB on Jul 5, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Osgood lost both of the last two games of that 2-1, with a sv% in both that can be considered a “quality start.”
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
the 3 of the 4 were goals in which osgood was completely out of position… numbers don’t tell the whole story…
Cause I'm just that obsessive
Game 6
Goal 1 was a rebound off a 2 on 1, Osgood made the initial save.
Goal 2 was off a turnover behind the net, Osgood’s in position but it sneaks through…I’ll grant soft to that.
Game 7
Goal 1 – Turned over and kicked to the top of the crease, Osgood reacts to a shot fake and Talbot buries it.
Goal 2 – Another 2 on 1, Talbot beats Osgood glove high.
In none was he “completely out of position.” Goal 2 – game 6 was stoppable, Goal 1 – Game 7 was high percentage but still coulda been stopped I guess, the other two he didn’t have much of a chance.
That’s why I go on numbers…they’re generally more reliable.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to be a dick,
because it was a good writeup, but the Penguins and Blackhawks did it a little bit different. They both have two young studs (Kane/Toews, Malkin/Crosby) that are worlds better then any young player we have. We have developed nice secondary type players in Duby, Cally, on offense, but we need a stud forward, preferably a center, to go with our studs on defense in MDZ and Staal, and now RMD. I hope Stepan becomes that guy, but until then, I see us as a mediocre team.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring; besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic."
- CRASH DAVIS
i think thats the plan… he’s supposed to be that stud forward, and he was for Team USA in the U21 tourney
Stepan’s not likely to be on the Kane/Toews/Malkin level (Crosby’s a whole different level)
Kreider and Grachev OTOH, could be those 70-80 pt guys we’re missing.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s true. So is Kane.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That might be true, but he’s also a better player than Kane, Toews or Malkin.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
in devils blog
Mark Everson Report: Kovy to Devs for 7 years/60 mill
Mark Everson is not my favorite Devils reporter but he isn’t Eklund. He floated this out there today from what one “source” of his has suggested.
Looks like Pierre LeBrun is also getting in on this.
Also a very interesting tweet from Larry Brooks.
If true, Marty seems very happy.
Editor’s Note: I’m front paging this for all Kovalchuk related discussion. I’m not saying anything unless it’s official.
10 minutes ago Zelepukin
Since the face been revealed the game got real
i agree fans in here
have been talking about if its possible
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Even TSN is jumping in now…I think this is a done deal.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't the Devils only have 12 players signed?
Who would they have to dump? And isn’t Parise’s contract up soon?
yea they have some serious work to do with moving contracts
Since the face been revealed the game got real
@kausatoday For Devils to sign Kovy, they will have to move players. They have roughly $4 million in cap space after 18 players signed.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
langerbrunner ,parise both need to be resigned next year rolston and elias both have +35 and nmc
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Actually, there is no need for the Devils to move a player today, in order to sign Kovy. Remember, a team can be 10% over the cap during the summer.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe, but Lou will get all the value he can muster.
@SpectorsHockey They currently have over $41 million committed to 11 players for 2011-12. Parise will eat up at least $7 mil of that
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
which is why giving kovy that much makes no sense cause then they are in as bad a cap spot as us.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
but they can afford to be in that spot, unlike us. Especially because of the 1 year contracts they have gotten, for this year, in Arnott, and say Hedberg, plus Langenbrunner will be 35 next summer and he’s off the books. Take Arnott’s contract and add it to Parise and you have him done, still with say 18 mil remaining (not with Kovy) and even with him signed they’ll have $8-$9 mil space.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
no the 41 mil already committed assumes those deals dont get redone. add kovy at 8.57 if that is the number and your at nearly 50 mil with no deal on parise. andy greene also a FA next summer.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, I’m assuming those deals don’t get redone. Plus, Parise can also do a one year smaller salary situation like Lundqvist did, to give an extra year to move and what not.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
and if your a competitor with NJ why not throw a Vanek type offer sheet at Parise and either get him or screw NJ?
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d give up the picks quickly to get Parise here.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
This is great I hate the Isles more than the Devils so I dont care if he plays for them!!!!! Also this shows he really wants to win.
i don't understand why he would not go to the kings
devils have parise, he is always gonna be after him, kings he would become the 1st winger there and the kings are gonna be so good
Since the face been revealed the game got real
maybe he would but the kings wouldnt go that high on the dollars
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
with the reported deal Kovy finds a good mix of money and chance to win its a win win situation for him.
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 5, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
RT @mirtle: You’ll note the headline on the NY Post Kovalchuk story has changed: http://bit.ly/9BqoBS
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
yep. if they do that they can kiss parise goodbye in a year.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
on a different subject
RT @ESPN_NHL: Modano: Red Wings are ‘selling it pretty hard’ – http://es.pn/9J46J8
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
he is really in an ideal spot either he goes to Det and has another shot at it or he retires as a lifetime Star. i think he should retire and not wear another uniform, but that’s up to him.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i just don't understand why dallas wouldnt offer him a contract even 1 year
i think if he wants to play one more year he has earned that right
Since the face been revealed the game got real
well in their defense they basically did that already with him last year.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be so bummed if he wore another uniform especially after what went down at the end of last season it was a perfect way to go out.
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 5, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
can’t write a script like that.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
that you cannot, both events in Dallas and Minnesota nearly brought tears to my eyes it was beautiful. lol
by CrazyRangerFan on Jul 5, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, i’m all for a player going out on a good note, not jumping from team to team on a yearly basis… ala brett favre… while modano is no where near that whole situation, i hope he plays his one season and goes out closer to the top of his game, then the complete end…
problem is if you look at the numbers the top of his game is well gone. he should go out on the story and the legacy he created for minn/dallas as a one team guy.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
yea but modano at half
speed is better then alot of people. i agree that some players don’t know when to hang it up but i watched a lot of dallas he is in a limited role he is still gets a point every other game thats on pace with dubi
Since the face been revealed the game got real
sure as a 3rd line checking center he is more than capable.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
yea thats what i am saying if he is happy in
that role, hes not complaining about playing time, he wants to mabey win another 1, well i say good luck to him
Since the face been revealed the game got real
NHLSourcesSay I’m hearing Atlanta might be back in on Kovalchuk. Not confirmed via Tom Gulitti.
that would be hysterical and prove for kovy it was all about the money afterall.
that would be funny as heck
well if he wants money i can see him going back to atl the the nyi
Since the face been revealed the game got real
What, 7 years, $60 mil isn’t about the money? It is basically what team are willing to spend on him, you know, other than the Isles $10 year $100 million offer, (which…
@mirtle One source on Kovalchuk and the Islanders: “Wherever he goes, it won’t be there.”) and the Thrashers $10 year $101 million offer.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
yea but he would still be leaving a guaranteed 40 million dollars on the
table…
Since the face been revealed the game got real
i meant it more in him claiming he didnt sign the atl deal cause he wanted to win yet he would go right back if they offer more than NJ supposedly offered
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
atl should be a playoff team if that happened.
adding ladd, kovy, dustin plus mason to bergfors, antro, kane, little, bogosian.
also should make bringing back afino easy
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s a better top 9 forward group than we have (for this season).
kovy-antro-afino
kane-little-bergfors
ladd-peverly-dustin
oduya-bogosian
hainsey-enstrom
?-Sopel
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know, I think our top 9 could match. Last year’s scoring enigma that was this team in my opinion will not happen again.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
talent vs. clutch
personally, i would rather take clutch players over talented players. the ‘94 rangers had players that scored/ cleared the puck on pk’s at the right times that helped them win. i’m hoping and excited to see the kids come up.
we have mr. clutch...
i think i would have kovy at 8.5mill than drury at 7
Clutch is the product of confirmation bias .
Drury is considered “clutch” because of all the times he succeeded in big spots, but Rangers fans will tell you quite clearly how many times he has been clutch here (hint: not alot)
Talent is never considered clutch, and only considered “not clutch.” (with the notable exception of when there is the “guarantee” ala Namath and Messier.) People expect the stars to perform in a big spot, when they do, no one labels them. When they don’t, everyone does.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
yea that big goal at the end of the season against the devils
thats the only one that comes to mind…..
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Drury hasn’t been bad. In the 5 seasons before coming to NY, he averaged 57.6 points a season. Drury’s first two years here saw he reach 58 points and 56 points respectively. Is everyone judging him on last year alone? It was just an off year, so “clutch”… he’s done the same for us as he has any other team.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
so you are sayin drury is worth 7 million the last three years ???
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Until last year, he’s been worth about 5-5.5. Never 7.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
yea i agree leader wears the captins C signed as a free agent
5 would of been ok cause you are getting more then just points
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Instead of “clutch” we should talk about “worth”. In Drury’s case, he was offered the money, he didn’t demand it. $7 million maybe not, but I’d keep him here, and not throw him on the third line (which is a reason for his points decline).
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
I didn’t start this, tony32976 up there did when he brought up the talent vs clutch thing. The most obvious example of bringing in “clutch” here was Drury.
Off the ledge RMC, im on your side with Drury.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Smurf I was replying to BL3ACH haha. Just because he replied to me about Drury’s contract. My fault, should’ve clarrified.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
Oh. Whoops. lol
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I defend Dru as much as everyone, you don't have to tell me his numbers.
When people say clutch, they’re talking about goals scored late in big spots. They’re not talking about his yearly production.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
1st year here he had 7 GWG. Can’t do that every year, and he hasn’t.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
GWG’s can come in the 1st period.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
true, but I don’t think there have been many games in which that occured. Nonetheless, we’re on the same side :)
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
Eh..out of curiousity, here’s the time elapsed of his GWG’s that year anyway
48:46, 26:45, 22:06, 50:09, 25:44, 22:14, 61:46
None in the 1st, oh well.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Woah, someone went digging. For the sake of digging, he also scored a GWG in the playoffs. 25:35.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
Had to, digging’s alot easier than remembering this shit.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i think my favorite thing about this whole Kovalchuk thing is that he wants to go to a contender, but doesn’t want to compromise his paycheck… so essentially he’ll make the devils have to trade and possibly part ways with core players just so he can play there essentially lessening the chances of them being a contender… it makes no sense… especially since they may have to trade guys like langenbrunner, and later lose parise to FA because they can’t afford to sign him… both of those guys are two way players and kovy isn’t he’s one way… his way…
yea i think this is a bad signing for the devils personally
if its true. and the devils are nortorious for not giving big contracts, if lou breaks the bank for kovi, hes gonna have to break it for parise, probally 6.5 to 7.5 million i would think and with 4 million in cap space how could they get to pay both of them
Since the face been revealed the game got real
@RangersTribune The author of the Kovy article, Mark Everson, has been wrong in the past. He had the Rangers getting Phil Kessel last summer.
Thanks Nick.
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
there a lot of reliable reporters on the story now it seems
Since the face been revealed the game got real
No Problem :)
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by Nick Montemagno on Jul 6, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
NYP_Brooksie I can report this without fear of being contradicted by anyone who knows: Islanders expressed interest, did not ever make offer to Ilya.
interesting.
ugh. well that narrows it down to… the Devils.
“expressed interest”. Did Larry just hint that the Isles are no longer interested?
"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
- Sam Rosen
"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
-Sam Rosen
who ever say it was to appeal to the fans was probally right
Since the face been revealed the game got real
sad indeed. i miss the old Domi vs Probert and Kocur vs Probert days.
by WalkerNYRanger on Jul 5, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Dammit, you're too quick.
So if he’s asking for 3, the QO is around 1.8. He’s going to end up with the same $2.5 or so mostly likely that Sather is willing to go to, except now he gets the same mudslinging that Avery went through when he went to arbitration.
Doesn’t make sense, if my assumptions are correct.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
All-in-all though, good news for us right? Less money, but probably less years as well.
by WalkerNYRanger on Jul 5, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends on what Girardi actually asks for in arbitration. If he’s asks for $4m, he may end up costing $3+, which would be a problem.
Makes the McDonagh signing that much more interesting.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
hard to justify asking for that much.
The evidence that can be used in arbitration cases:
# The player’s “overall performance” including statistics in all previous seasons.
# Injuries, illnesses and the number of games played.
# The player’s length of service with the team and in the NHL.
# The player’s “overall contribution” to the team’s success or failure.
# The player’s “special qualities of leadership or public appeal.”
# The performance and salary of any player alleged to be “comparable” to the player in the dispute.
Evidence that is not admissible:
# The salary and performance of a “comparable” player who signed a contract as an unrestricted free agent.
# Testimonials, video and media reports.
# The financial state of the team.
# The salary cap and the state of the team’s payroll.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I love that you can’t use the salary cap as evidence, but you can use the player’s “public appeal”.
by NTB on Jul 5, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Well..
25 points per season, only Rangers D-man with 100 SOGs on last year.
Played all 82 three straight years.
Entering his 5th season, but already 26 years old.
The next two are subjective, and obviously where some of the mudslinging happens.
Comparables…hmm..would have to dig. I doubt comparables are in the 4m range though, you’re right.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
by George E. Ays on Jul 5, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
well sather could pull the Z move if he doesnt like what Girardi is awarded and walk away.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
from Gross:
Girardi is reportedly seeking a contract in the neighborhood of $3 million annually over four years and, the odds are, he and the Rangers will come to an agreement before he gets to any arbitration hearing.
there is nothing wrong with that. just sign him up for it 4/12 is fine by me cause you figure he is worth 5-5.5 the next 2 and as a UFA would get at least 3.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
also from it:
However, that won’t come close to signing Staal, who’s likely seeking a deal in the neighborhood of $4 million annually.
no mention of how many years staal wants but if the difference is 4/14 vs 4/16 sather needs to stop messing around.
full piece: http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/rangerrants/
by Michael Gleich on Jul 5, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
yea staal a t 4mil is acceptable
but if he does 4 mil i want 5 years
Since the face been revealed the game got real
Must say, after reading that statement in the beginning of this post by Nick, I agree 100 percent. We have an unbelievable young development that is just waiting to become an elite core. Read some of the histories of these young guys. It’s special. Saying the team will be the same next year if we don’t make a move for another elite player is so black and white. Another year, another year of experience for Del Zotto, Gilroy, Callahan, Duby, Anisimov, Boyle, for christ sake the whole team. We saw a team of potential last year, and we scratched the surface of kinetic with that hot streak at the end. Next year, and surely the net 5, that kinetic will come to life. And I agree, get Stepan and others in there to spark something, he reminds me of teows.
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