Rangers Analysis: Taking A Look at the Cap Situation
Since the acquisition of forward Todd White I have been getting a lot of questions about the current salary cap situation for the New York Rangers. Obviously there is one site and one site only to head to in a predicament such as this one.....CAP GEEK! Now there have been some rumors claiming that White may be Hartford bound after training camp, which I feel is unfair without at least giving him a chance, but even with the veteran center on the books, there is still room to re-sign RFA defenseman Marc Staal. That is considering Wade Redden is waived and buried in the AHL as well.
With Redden's $6.5 million (I am so sick of writing that cap hit) gone, the Blueshirts would have approximately $6.9 million in cap space to give to Marc Staal. There is almost no chance Marc will get an amount such as that, so I think it is safe to say he will again be a Ranger next season when all of this is sorted out by the two sides.
To prove it to you, below I listed all roster players and their salaries and the overall combined salary. It is tight but GM Glen Sather will be able to manage. Note that Redden is not mentioned in the list assuming he is gone at that point, and Ryan McDonagh and his cap hit were also added at the end along with Staal.
Complete cap layout after the jump.....
Marian Gaborik - 7.5
Chris Drury - 7.05
Alex Frolov - 3
Todd White - 2.375
Ryan Callahan - 2.3
Vinny Prospal - 1.0
Sean Avery - 1.94
Brandon Dubinsky - 1.85
Derek Boogaard - 1.625
Erik Christensen - .925
Artem Anisimov - .822
Brandon Prust - .8
Brian Boyle - .525
-----------
Dan Girardi - 3.325
Michal Rozsival - 5
Steve Eminger - 1.125
Michael Del Zotto - .875
-----------
Henrik Lundqvist - 6.875
Martin Biron - .875
-------------------------------------------------
TOTAL CAP HIT: $54,596,667
CAP SPACE: 6,965,833
+ Marc Staal - 5.0*
+ Ryan McDonagh - 1.3
-------------------------------------------------
TOTAL CAP HIT: $60,895,667
CAP SPACE: $665,833
*Speculated amount, unconfirmed
Problems arise when Matt Gilroy and/or Mats Zuccarello Aasen make the team. First off, I do not think we see Aasen start in the NHL this year, I think he will start with the Pack to get a feel for North American hockey. Secondly, as I have expressed before, I really want to see Matt Gilroy get another shot on D and if that happens, someone's salary has to come of the books (i.e. Eminger, Rozsival). We shall see...........
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knowing how stupid Glen Sather can be
I wouldn’t be surprised to see White in Hartford instead of Redden.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
There’s a chance both may be in Hartford but White has a roster spot to lose. If he’s healthy he’ll get a chance.
blueseatblogs.com
Given below, if you swap Redden and White, they’re over the cap. Staal would have to sign for less than $2,865,833 to accommodate Redden, and that’s spending every dollar of the cap.
Assuming you want to leave at least $500k room, Staal has to sign for less than $2,365,833, or another move has to be made.
It’s like 98% Redden is gone as of right now.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
i wouldn’t be so certain redden is gone. hopefully, yes, but not 98% sure though
by brodeur hearts avery on Aug 4, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Just based on the cap numbers I mean. If a trade happens, that percentage will change based on the trade.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Hockey is a world of ifs
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Aug 4, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s deeeeeeeeep.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Well first, there isn’t a prayer that Staal gets $5m, even before Erik Johnson just got $2.6m. Also don’t know what happened to Gilroy. Here’s the list from capgeek, giving Staal $3.75m (which others will argue is too high even then)
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Marian Gaborik ($7.500m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Alexander Frolov ($3.000m)
Todd White ($2.375m) / Ryan Callahan ($2.300m) / Vaclav Prospal ($2.100m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Brandon Dubinsky ($1.850m) / Artem Anisimov ($0.821m)
Derek Boogaard ($1.625m) / Erik Christensen ($0.925m) /
Brandon Prust ($0.800m) / Brian Boyle ($0.525m)
DEFENSEMEN
Daniel Girardi ($3.325m) / Michal Rozsival ($5.000m)
Steve Eminger ($1.125m) / Matt Gilroy ($1.750m)
Marc Staal ($3.750m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) /Martin Biron ($0.875m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,896,667; BONUSES: $1,737,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,240,833
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n/m…didn’t see the bottom text about Gilroy…still, he’s not getting demoted. They’ll carry 7 if McDonagh makes the team, and your numbers are off somewhere anyway.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Dan Girardi is the poor man's Rosival
He’s not making as much, but looking at that 3.3 next to his name makes me sick to my stomach.
There’s a greater difference between Booger’s salary and actual value than there is Girardi.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed.
Girardi is neither worth 3.325 nor did he earn such a raise last year but there’s worse contracts out there and should he become expendable his cap hit is still very moveable. Its not a cap anchor like Redden for example.
blueseatblogs.com
Girardi’s currently the 70th highest paid defenseman. That’s the equivalent of being among the top 6th of 2nd pair defenseman, which is close enough to his value.
If you argue he’s the middle of the bottom of a 2nd pair (I wouldn’t, but Buck would), the 105th highest defenseman) makes 2.35m, so it’s a $1m overpay to him.
90th makes $2.9m, so a $425k overpay for the dividing line between the average 3rd highest paid defenseman and the 4th.
Inexact science at best, but it’s not like he’s a $500k defenseman, which would be the same amount by which Rozsival is overpaid.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It just seems so long too. I think 2 years are plenty for Girardi. I don’t see him becoming a superstar, where we needed to buy his extra years of free agency. More likely, i see him regressing, getting passed over by our prospects coming up on D, and being a 3.25 mil benchwarmer.
I’ll probably get murdered for this, but if Rosi was making $2.5, no one would complain about him nearly as much. I just think that Girardi is going to have to do ALOT to not have me groan about how he’s overpaid everytime he makes a mistake.
If Rozsival was making 3M a year, I don’t think we’d be complaining much about him at all, he eats up considerable minutes without making too many mistakes (at least during the second half of the season).
Girardi isn’t that overpaid. Sather was most likely a little worried about the arbitration ruling, so he did what it took to get it done so he could focus more on Staal (hopefully). I’d rather the money go to Girardi (home grown talent) than another overpriced free agent.
Feel same way about Girardi
Not that I don’t like him but I still scratch my head at that contract. But like you said, it’s not a killer. Frolov makes less than Danny Boy for Pete’s sake!
by Conway on Aug 4, 2010 8:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As much as Staal would like $4mil....
Staal is gonna end up with around $3.85mil when the dust settles. For those who think this has been a “great” offseason, overpaying for Boogaard, Prospal, and Girardi sounds like the perfect offseason. Can’t wait until the Summer of ’11.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
Prospal is overpaid? How so?
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
i really really sturggle to see how you think Prospal is over paid Danz.
and Boogaard didnt get much of a raise, its his term that hurts most.
Girardi is slightly overpaid and thats it. slightly.
Then when you think the cost effective deal Frolov took etc.
Its not been an expensive off season.
blueseatblogs.com
Boogaard didnt get much of a raise,
Sather damn near doubled his cap hit.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Salary his final year. His cap hit from the last contract was $875k.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Like it or not Boogaard is the best at what he does
Smurf undervalues the "enforcer’ – I agree the Domi’s and Probert’s are fading, but I think Boogaard has adapted the role. He’s a genuine menace on the ice. He makes the big, late hit’s that piss the other team off, he defends his guys when he has to, and when he fights he destroys whoever he is going against.
For Boogie to do what his does best, Torts is going to have to cut him some slack. Boogs will take some “bad penalties” but if he gets 2 mins for drilling Crysby after the whistle, in a game where we need a spark, that’s not a bad penalty. We’ve got a strong PK, and if we can kill it off, we should get a huge momentum spark, while the other team is worrying about settling the score with the Boogie Man
There are light years between Domi/Probert’s skill levels and Boogers.
Yes I believe the ‘enforcer,’ the guy who skates around just looking to hit stuff with no hockey skill is useless, and certainly useless at $1.65m. $800k…like the dozen other guys that signed that also skate around and hit stuff w/ no hockey skill…no problem.
Though, Booger does have a better penalty differential than the others, so there’s that.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Having Boogaard on the team
Makes me feel a lot better when we’re playing against the Pens and Mr. Cheap-shot-specialist-extraordinaire Matt Cooke.
I like not having to worry about a season ending concussion to a star player. If one of our players were seriously injured by a cheapshot like Savard was, we would all be a lot warmer to his coming.
Torterella said in an interview that they are working this season towards making Boogey a hockey player. Believing him or not is up to you.
We should stoop to Cooke’s level.
"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
by Scratch and Snif on Aug 5, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
shouldn’t
"Mes que un club"
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
by Scratch and Snif on Aug 5, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
How does Boogard prevent any of this? Cooke doesn’t play on the 4th line, so why would he care? Are opposing teams not going to hit our star players b/c Boogard is sitting on the bench?
by NTB on Aug 4, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
no but Torts could throw Booger out there later against any other lines, possibly even Crosby and knock his ass out. Him being on the team gives others a moment of hesitation. I’m not a huge fan of “enforcers”, but this scenario still holds water. Not only would Booger destroy anyone on their team in a fight, but he could also lay out some lethal hits.
That’s why its nice to also have someone like Prust, who can play the game, and will still fight anyone.
And if Booger’s in the press box?
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, when the season starts and teams still run Hank (b/c it was up all over the NHL last year) and cheap shots still happen (b/c Boogaard is never on the ice); I guess we’ll finally settle this debate.
by NTB on Aug 4, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
absolutely… I don’t know if there are numbers out there for determining this, but it seemed clear to me that cheap shots and runs at hank were much more rare after we acquired Shelley and Prust. I just think having Booger and Prust makes our team tougher and teams will recognize that.
Likely falls under confirmation bias. You remember all the times it happened when there was nobody here to do anything about it, but don’t remember the times once Shelley was here. It’s also 60 games worth of no S/P, versus 20 games of them here.
I don’t have a way to prove that, but it sure seems like the type of thing that would fall under that category.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I would say touche if I didn’t make a conscious effort to look for it at the time. Granted I didn’t take notes, and you’re right the 20w/60w.o. could have been it, especially since it was the end of the year and teams were looking to make the playoffs and not take stupid penalties… but I try to avoid that type of selective thinking whenever I can.
What is certain is that the locker room changed with those guys, especially Shelley, and that impacted the team’s play.
oh were you in the locker room? I’m sure the people in the locker room changed with the trades. I doubt the players mentalities changed much. They’re all professionals with jobs to do. Lundqvist isn’t changing the way he plays just because he gets snow showers
Torts talked about the locker room changing (for the better) after those trades on at least two occasions – I’m just going by the coaches statements.
He’s been big on character and improving the culture of the team, and he made a big deal about the improvement in the lockerroom with Shelley being there specifically.
Whatever happened in the locker room didn’t translate into increased goal differential. And if we’re going to go by anecdotal accounts, you should look into the Sharks following’s response to the Shelley trade. They were ecstatic to be rid of him.
i think you’re misinterpreting my point. why are you bringing goal differential into this? I’m saying there seems to have been some vague improvement with the team after those trades, and you act like I’m saying guys like Shelley make the Rangers a playoff contender? And who gives a shit about the Sharks response to the Shelley trade? What does that have to do with the conversation? Look at the response of Duck’s fans after the Eminger/Voros trade, or ATL fan’s after the White trade. That’s all irrelevant to my very minor point about the improvement of the locker room, as seen by the coaching staff, after the Shelley trade.
Right you’re saying t here was a vague improvement with the team. I’d like to know how the team improved if it didn’t translate into wins or better play. Why does the locker room matter? I don’t care much about a bunch of millionaires lounging around with a dinner spread
well actually, they did play better over the last 1/4 of the season and pushed towards the playoffs. The coaching staff directly attributed that change to an overall improvement in the team chemistry/leadership etc… The lockerroom is more than just a bunch of millionaires lounging around, between periods the discussion about what needs to be done is an essential part of team success. Torts constantly says that the lockerroom should be self sustaining; that he shouldn’t have to do much in between periods. Taking guys like Kotalik and Higgins out and adding guys like Prust and Shelley, changed something.
Mind explaining why you feel the need to take some minor comments in a bullshit conversation and turn it into an argument? I’m not actually saying any of this matters greatly… for some reason you jumped on it, and I’m simply defending/explaining my comments.
id still rather have colton
I feel like Boogaard is going to have a tough time finding people to fight within our division, the man is just hugantic…someone like Colton’s size is would probably get challenged more
I don’t know why, but I can just see the Carcillo’s and Clarkson’s of the world luring Boogaard into getting tossed
http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/
yup, everyone who loves this Boogaard signing seems to forget that he only got in 9 fights last season…NINE!
Colton dropped the gloves 23 times!
Now that Boogie doesn’t have Wade Belak and George Parros to fight all the time, its gonna be interesting to see who will line up with him.
http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/
lots of teams have been grabbing fighters since the booger signing. Caps just signed DJ King, who has been in a few fights with boogs, islanders got konopka and someone else (i forget who).
Seems like people took notice of the boogieman signing and are at least trying to find some backup
Yes, Boogs got about 500K more this season than last. But, it should not have been that much at all. I agree with all who have said that Byers should’ve been the player to come up and vie for one of the roster spots; especially in the role of enforcer.
Girardi is not “slightly” overpaid…he is grossly overpaid. I’m no Penguins fan; so when I see Girardi being paid in the scope of Kris Letang, I’m wondering how that’s even possible??
Frolov is understandable; he is a far better player than Kotalik, and is worth $3 mil @ 1 year.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
Girardi and Letang have put up very similar stats. Why wouldn’t they be paid in the same scope? [And Girardi is still paid less than Letang]
By 175K? Wow, what a drop-off!
Sorry, I will not be convinced by any means that Dan Girardi has outplayed and outshined the defensemen on his own team, much less defensemen like Carle or Letang, to be paid in that bracket.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
dar9898...
Think outside the box for a moment, if you will.
This is a defenseman who ranks somewhere around the mid 50’s in the main defensive stats. Would YOU pay a defenseman $3 million for being in the top 50 defensively?
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
2 defenseman, 30 teams = 60 defenseman. So if re-distributed evenly, top 50 means he’s a top pairing guy.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont know if you can compare Byers and Boogs. Byers can play hockey, Boogs can’t. On the other hand, Boogs can scare/beat the shit outta people, Byers doesnt come close to that level. Toughness is something we lacked last year and I am willing to at least gives the boogey man a shot to prove himself. Knocking out someone on the flyers for hitting gabby or spraying hank would be worth it to me (as long as a couple of extra dumb penalities didnt come along with it).
As for girardi i simply disagree and he is going to be a top-4 dman on this team for the entirety of that contract. Since we’re paying 6.5 mil for a 6th dman and 5 mil for a 4th dman right now, I am not sure how you can be nitpicking a 3.3 mil contract for someone who will carry 20+ mins.
by BronxBeliever on Aug 4, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Girardi will be a top 4 d-man on THIS team…but not on any other, and that’s what makes his contract hard to swallow. If your argument is about the R&R brothers making more money, then you may need to remember that they were paid after having had:
a) five or more seasons of reputable numbers to back up the contracts they were offered
and b) other teams bidding for their services when they were signed
Girardi could only be bid on by the Rangers until the July 8th RFA deadline. And truthfully, they (The Rangers) were really bidding against themselves for him to stay. This is the same case with Staal now. You have to remember that, when you make this argument.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
Yes, Girardi will be a top 4 d-man on THIS team…but not on any other,
There was a whole separate FanPost about this. There’s 4 teams that he definitely wouldn’t crack, a few more that are debatable. The rest he’s a top 4.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not denying that, RS. I just suspect that it is perhaps a million or so too high. And considering Erik Johnson’s contract, there is where it isn’t comparative.
I’m not faulting Girardi on this, I take this up with Sather, and Sather, alone.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
Oh. Cause it looked like you were denying it lol.
It’s hard to compare E.Johnson and Girardi because Girardi’s contract goes into his UFA years. BTH estimates RFAs have to take a 40% discount to their UFA price. So lets says he would get $2.6m if he signed the contract that only covered his 2 RFA years. That means an estimate of $4.33m on the open market (obviously other factors at play..this is Napkin Math)
So 2 years of 2.6 and 2 years of 4.33m (the estimated worth if he went to UFA) gives you a cap hit of $3.465. Girardi signed for under that at $3.375. So that says a 2 year deal for Girardi probably would’ve come in just under Johnson’s contract, which makes some sense (since people pay more for offensive d-men than defensive)
We could do the reverse math and estimate the overpay if you or someone wants to determine what Girardi would command in the open market too.
Moral of the story….he got some extra money since he’s not commanding Volchenkov money on the open market, but it’s probably not that gross when it comes down to it.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me ask this question…
If Girardi had been rendered an UFA, do you think he could have gone to another team and asked for $3 million?
Hypothetical question, bear in mind, please.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
$3m. Yes, easily. Seidenberg got $3.2 and Girardi’s in the same league.
If I had to guess, Girardi commands the salary he got from Sather on the open market…$3.4m or so. He’s a 25 point guy who plays 1st line competition, there’d be a decent enough market for him.
$3.4 would translate to a $2.72m deal for the 4 years…so an overpay of about $600k. I think most people would agree that’s the ballpark of the overpay, give or take.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Without an actual definition, there’s no way Girardi is “grossly” overpaid. It’s somewhere between $500-$1m, but keeping in mind that we bought two of his UFA years.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
A jump from $1.1 to $2.1 million sounds for Vinnie Prospal is too much. I get the chemistry with Gaborik, and I get the fact that there are far more expensive alternatives…but $2.1 million for a player who found lightning in a bottle for 3/4 of a season is a bit much.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
Lightning in a bottle? Prospal’s stats from year to year are incredibly consistent. He didn’t have an outlier season last year. He performed how he usually does.
No they’re not. The pattern of “every other year” holds pretty close to true with him.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
meh his points per game trend is nearly flat. i don’t buy into the noise of “every other year.” regardless, he hasn’t scored less than half a point per game in any season since the lockout. I’m not concerned with any risk per his level of play.
Starting with 2002-2003:
79, 54, 80, 55, 71, 45, 58. So until last year, every other year he went to 70+, then back to ~50.
But yes, we’re nitpicking over a guy whose even strength production has been mostly better than Plekanec the last 5 years, who we signed for 40% of P’s contract.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Here could be an answer...
Starting with 2002-2003:
79, 54, 80, 55, 71, 45, 58. So until last year, every other year he went to 70+, then back to ~50.
I’m not saying he doesn’t play. But a model of inconsistency is Vaclav Prospal.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
$1mil for a 50 point producer seems like a steal to me
by Conway on Aug 4, 2010 9:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Okay.
When he only produces 35-40 points, we’ll gladly have this conversation next offseason. Of course, by then, Cigar will hopefully finally see the light (fat chance) and resign.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
Why would you expect him to have a huge drop in production? He hasn’t ever shown that in his career.
I’ll refer you to the post placed by Rangersmurf earlier.
Alternating high and low point totals…and he hit a high last season…
I’ll leave this one up to you.
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
Starting with 2002-2003:
79, 54, 80, 55, 71, 45, 58. So until last year, every other year he went to 70+, then back to ~50.
Thank you, Rangersmurf
I Am HockeyMan!!
"When I tap my stick like this (thump, thump, thump), put the puck on the tape, and I'll take care of things." Jaromir Jagr, for Bud Light.
Yes very good it worked for 6 out of those 7 seasons. Who knows what else was going on? How much variance is expected to occur within point totals. Unless there’s some reason you can point to explaining an alternating total as anything other than noise [including changing playing systems], I’m going to continue assuming Prospal’s total will fall near his trendline which stays level right through the middle.
That seems like a lot more than noise. 54 to 80 is a 50% increase in points. You could be right, but I’m really skeptical.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure but a random high low repetition? There would have to be something explaining it. Unless we could pinpoint a reason, there’s no way we can expect it to continue any more than a linear trend
Well, I’m sure there is an explanation for it, but that explanation is more likely to prove that it is a pattern rather than random distribution.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
We paid 2.3 mil for callahan’s 37 pts last yr, was that a waste? They played similar amout of games and top-6 mins and prospal far outproduced him. 40-50pts from prospal this yr would be more than acceptable for me at 2.1 mil. He is a veteran leader and is on a 1 yr deal, i really like that signing.
Dar- im not sure if your being sarcastic but he absolutely has shown that in his career and has had large drop offs in production from yr to yr (but has always come back to produce in later yrs).
by BronxBeliever on Aug 4, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
McDonagh
I don’t know why you are including McDonagh in the cap hit. His contract is two way and he has less of a chance at making the team than Gilroy. I’d say he has a similar shot as MZA. Why you ask? McDonagh hasn’t played in the NHL yet so it’s really anyone’s guess how he will be. Regardless, I’m not sure why you are searching for capspace for Gilroy and including McDonagh in the cap hit whe he is a two way contract and thus it doesn’t make sense to automatically put him on there.
I think McD has a good shot
At making the big club. ARISTH, the last 2 spots are between Gilroy, Eminger and McD
by Conway on Aug 4, 2010 9:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ARISTH
‘Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford’ Can we just adopt this so we don’t have to keep typing it out?
by Conway on Aug 4, 2010 9:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
there need to be shirts with this on it
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Aug 4, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I would say all three have a ver good chance
the numbers up on top are not correct, look at smurfs breakdown instead. All three can make the team if staal makes something like 4.5 mil or less AAV. If McD proves himself as everyone is hoping, and how the rangers front office thinks he can, he should win one third pairing spot and the battle between eminger ang gilroy should decide who sits in the press box and who pairs with McD. Eminger was brought in as a 7th veteran D-man this yr, not to carry big minutes for us.
by BronxBeliever on Aug 4, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about that.
Eminger is not on a two way contract and McD is. This means that if we wanted to keep McD up and send Eminger down we’d have to put him on waivers and on a 1.1mm contract he’d probably be claimed by someone else, thus risking losing him. Since McD has not played a second in the nhl there is no rush for them to put him in the pros. Since he is on a two way contract they would be allowed to send him down to the minors without having to put him on waivers and not risk losing him. From a defensive depth perspective it doesn’t make sense for McD to make it over Eminger. McD would have to play outstanding and seem like a sure thing THIS SEASON to make the team over someone with an nhl contract. The rangers would have to be perfectly comfortable losing the player or be confident that he’d clear waivers (and be able to be sent down) if they were to choose McD over them.
like Gilroy was last year McD wont be subjected to waivers until after 63(?) games.
blueseatblogs.com
60.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2009/11/26/1174855/waivers-101-a-guide-to-the-nhl
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry..McDonagh is younger.. At 21 y.o…he’s got 80 games before waivers.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
The waiver process has nothing to do with the 1-way/2-way contract, contrary to EA Sports belief.
That said, Eminger is subject to waivers because of his years of service, while McDonagh would not be.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
i concur
McDonagh should spend a year learning professional hockey in the ahl, as Gilroy should have last year. Taking the jump from college hockey to nhl hockey is a lot. I’ld have Gilroy on the team this year and see if he learned something last year and has improved. hopefully, torts’ mismanagement of him and being paired with redden didn’t screw up his development.
by brodeur hearts avery on Aug 4, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
a third pairing of gilroy and eminger is going to make other teams laugh and us cry.
by BronxBeliever on Aug 4, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
gilroy has a whole extra year of experience, mcdonagh is coming out of college. gilroy is a better option.
by brodeur hearts avery on Aug 4, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
im not saying dont play gilroy. the point was that a third pairing of eminger and gilroy would be pretty damn bad. if youre willing to suffer through a crappy third pair, why not let McD learn on the big club playing with gilroy and have eminger as the 7th dman. If either of them fails miserable or gets hurt, you have eminger to step in and take the minutes.
by BronxBeliever on Aug 4, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Eminger isn’t terrible. From what I’ve read, no one will like him because he’s apparently made of Charmin, but he was playing 2nd pair minutes and competition in Anaheim, and he was second on the d in +/- per 60. And for all we bash Gilroy, he was also a plus last year.
You don’t want them out there against Ovechkin’s line or anything, but I don’t see a reason that they can’t outscore other teams 3rd/4th lines.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Seeing as how Redden might be gone
I think it’s a safe bet to put McDonagh on the squad. He signed to go pro and the Rangers wanted him to sign pro because they think he is ready.
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by Joe Fortunato on Aug 4, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the Rangers always wanted McDonagh to sign a contract regardless of whether or not he’s ready for the NHL. At the very least he could develop in the minors with Rangers staff and against tougher competition. Contrast that with playing in the NCAA with alien coaches and weaker competition. Every NHL organization wants their best college prospects to sign as soon as possible irrespective of their NHL readiness.
You think Gilroy has a better chance than McDonagh??? I’m sorry, but that’s completely wrong lol. Gilroy was awful last year, he’s 26, he doesn’t really have much upside or talent. McDonagh is 21, a 1st round pick, should be a great shutdown defenseman who’s trying to add offense into his game more, and is just flat out better than Gilroy already.
Marc Staal...
Much ado about nothing. He is 23 6’4 who doesn’t use his body, he’s ineffective in the offensive zone, he just happens to to be the "best’ among the one the worse defenses in the league. My hope is in McDonagh based on reports. Otherwise I’m not overly optimistic about the upcoming season. Tortorella’s job is on the line; my feeling is that around the end of this year he’ll be gone.
Staal uses the body all the time, he just doesn’t hit, but that does not mean he isn’t physical. He clears the crease, holds players against the boards, shields the puck.
Without Staal, IMO, we have no shot at playoffs.
by Conway on Aug 4, 2010 9:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tied for 9th among all NHL defenseman in points at even strength. (is that ineffective?)
20th in the league in GVT (the value relative to replacement level)
13th in DGVT (defensive value relative to replacement level)
23rd in GAON/60 (goals against while he’s on the ice, per 60 minutes)
2nd in quality of competition.
And anyone who watches the Rangers know that Staal is tough as hell in the corners.
Seriously…the “big hit” isn’t that important. It looks good, and it serves a purpose, but you can be a good defenseman without it. And Staal is a really, really good defenseman
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
perfectly summed up. well done Smurf.
In my opinion, anyone who doesnt rate Staal or doesnt see what he brings musn’t have watched him much, if at all.
blueseatblogs.com
or doesn’t understand the defensive side of hockey
by Blueshirt in Paris on Aug 4, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah..but I think I should auto-text it.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
another key staal stat
his GAON/60 vs. GAOFF/60 is -0.69 that puts him 16th among NHL defensemen who played 60+ games last season
http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/
He’s not a minus.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
1.87 goals scored against NYR when he’s on the ice and 2.43 goals scored against when when he’s off the ice…if im reading the site right
http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/
It’s 2.56 off (2.43 is the Goals For Off).
I would explain that as a + rather than minus, saying the team allows 0.69 fewer goals. Semantics, your way works too, as long as it’s consistent.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
yea 2.56…they should add a differential column, i did the math in my head
i think it tells a good story
http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/
It sure does.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoops…enter too soon..it does..when you factor in the goaltending on/off as well.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
True. That’s showing opponents score less per minute when he’s on the ice versus when he’s on the bench. It might be nice to also show the Goals For measures as well to see the impact he has on net scoring. Or, equivalently, the +/- per 60 On versus Off.
After all net scoring is what it’s all about. Well that and a couple other things…
Stop snorting…
It’s bad for your health.
There are not as many d-men today that use their body more effectively than Marc Staal. Ask Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, and others in the Eastern Conference, who see him face to face ever so often.
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McDonagh is alot more raw then people realize
This is a guy who was Mr. Hockey in Minnesota – no small feat with all the talent that comes out of their HS leagues, but never really got alot of recognition at the NCAA level after being named to the WCHA All-Rookie team.
While the WCHA is by far the best conference in NCAA hockey, as I’ve said before the prospect pool is so diluted across NCAA’s, Junior’s and players who leave for the AHL, a guy ready to make the NHL jump should be DOMINANT.
Gilroy was DOMINANT at BU, but still struggled last year. Another WCHA alum who comes to mind is Matt Carle. He was constantly getting personal accolades, and making his team a dominant program at Denver. He was the first, and still only, defenseman to win the Hobey Baker as a Junior. Still while he’s had some success at the NHL level (All Rookie Team) he has bounced around from team to team looking for ice.
McD was a #1 pick, but he Habs saw him as a throw away last season. I think he can make it the NHL level, but I definatly see him spending a year in Hartford to adjust to the game. Gilroy on the other hand, should start with the big club provided he doesn’t show he regressed in training camp. I think Torts needs to find ways to help him excel using the skills he has, rather then chastising him for not adjusting well to becoming the player isn’t. If he’s not gonna fit, let’s look to move him, I’m sure there are other teams who will take a chance.
I said it above but i say it here, do you really want to see a third pairing of eminger and gilroy? If we’re going to struggle with our 3rd pair i would much rather do it with someone who is young and has a great potential like McD than a 28 yr old eminger who has disappointed everywhere he has been and was a throw-away by the ducks.
by BronxBeliever on Aug 4, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I will assume your day job isn’t to develop young NHL defensemen.
by Blueshirt in Paris on Aug 4, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Carle was a very good player for Philly last year.
He’s on the top pair with Pronger. That’s not ‘looking for ice’.
And McD won a few accolades at WC if you look at his bio. He’s also alot more mature physically than Gilroy was, in regards for NHL play. He’s ready for the pros and is a career defenceman, Gilroy was still learning the pos. as he entered the hardest league in the world.
blueseatblogs.com
Don't want to under sell Carle
He’s a great player, I was making the point that he was a moveable piece to teams. He wasn’t SO good that teams deemed him untouchable. I think if McD becomes the player Carle is, we should all be very pleased. As far as WC’s go, McD played on some good teams, but was never the dominant player.
The point I was making is that Carle was a gifted player with a great skill set at the Junior/NCAA levels, but that only computes to an average player in the NHL. I don’t think McD has the same tools as Carle, and will need to adjust at the NHL level. Skill can hide ALOT of mistakes.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
McD was a #1 pick, but he Habs saw him as a throw away last season.
You think he’s the afterthought in the Gomez deal?
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Very much so…unfortunately.
After watch the Frozen Four Final…they may have had it right.
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Higgins wasn’t the centerpiece of that deal, nor was Valentenko.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Gomez was the only player in that deal. We would have traded that contract for a 7th rd pick. Slats knew he wanted Gabby, and Gomez was the only one of our contracts that could be moved without sending valuable picks or prospects along with it.
It’s a shame, because of all our big FA contracts, I think Gomez is the one who could have lived up to the value. Anyway who ever saw him play could tell you he needs someone to feed the puck to, and he never had that. Gomez and Gabby would be a great first line.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s no way “we would’ve traded that contract for a 7th.” Slats wanted Gaborik, absolutely true, but that doesn’t mean he’d have handed Gomez away for nothing.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
OK that was an overstatement, but he was our only moveable piece, and Higgins had some serious expectations put on him when he came to town.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Right..Higgins was coming off an injury season but had 3 20-goal years before that, it was reasonable to expect he had value (that his shooting% fell of a cliff is another story, he did at least bring effort).
Still, Gomez for Higgins was not an even swap..so McDonagh was added for balance.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
from my understanding, they actually would have prefered to keep Gomez for as you said, his need to feed someone the puck, but his contract was the only one that was moveable….had Drury had not receive the NMC I think GOmer would still be a Ranger and Dru might have been the one to go to be traded
oh well….
http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/
Danz
You talk to any Habs fan, they were irate when they saw McD traded.
He automatically because the top blueline prospect for the Rangers. He’s not a throw away
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by Joe Fortunato on Aug 4, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe
I have several friends who live in Montreal, and as much as they hated seeing him come our way…they loved seeing him get roasted in the Frozen Four.
Otherwise, they were (and are) extremely excited to have Gomez. I think (IMO) that the bottom line for Sather is that he truly wanted Heatley, Ottawa balked, and moved him to SJ. Montreal (according to some in the know) wanted Gomez from us, right around when we were thinking about going after Sundin (before Renney was fired). They were interested when we hired Torts, and we were falling out of the playoff hunt in ‘08-’09. Montreal was the aggressor in that deal…and anyone who says the Rangers were is misinformed, Joe.
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Ottawa didn't balk
they just wanted Callahan and Dubinksy.
Gomez was gone either way, and in the end McD is going to be one of the (many) bright spots on this New York Rangers blue line
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by Joe Fortunato on Aug 4, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
All I know is, McD will have to be our version of Scott Stevens, to justify the trade in the magnitude of his supposed “stock”.
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I think they gave us as little as possible. The trade was that they got Gomez and we got rid of Gomez’s contract. I think he was no higher on MTL’s charts then Sangs was on draft day for us this year. 2/3 of that deal broke way better then expected for us. McD is back on the radar and Pashinin is talking about coming to the NHL in few years. Higgins is gone, but who cares.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree, but that’s speculation so without being on the phone I guess we don’t know for sure. Gomez, while obviously hated, has a lot of value, even with the shitty contract. McDonagh was still their #1 prospect at the time (according to hockeyfutures). He did drop in their last rankings for us, but I think that was more because Stepan/Kreider jumped in than McD slipping.
I do agree with your basic premise, that we’re too often penning McD in the lineup, when at best it’s pencil.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I just fail to see how McDonagh was ‘back’ on a radar. He never disappointed in college. Played to his potential. Its not a coincidence that a powerhouse NCAA program such as the Badgers wanted him/selected him as their new captain prior to him choosing to go pro.
Gainey simply over valued Gomez despite our then cap issues. He made a monumental error and gave too much up. Valentenko was known to want out. If anyone was a throw in, it was him.
blueseatblogs.com
I watch ALOT of college hockey. There are two types of players you see in college, guys who are good college players, and guys who GOOD PLAYERS. When you saw Heatly, Zajac, Heatley or Carle play, they were just plain better then everyone else. The have the NHL skill set, that makes them a step faster, pass a little crisper, shoot a little harder. They play their game with everyone else on the ice looking out for them.
McD doesn’t blow you away at the NCAA level, it’s not a knock on him. Some guys are born with it, some guys gotta earn it. When “Super Mario” was skating circles around guys in Pittsburgh, he smoked a pack a day. McD has to earn it. He’s not already playing with a skill set two levels higher then his competition, and adjusting to a higher level of cometitior. He’s going to have to elevate his game some, and I think a year in the AHL should do the trick.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I watch ALOT of college hockey as well
and what you’re missing with MCD is that Wisconsin made him change his game around, depending on whatt they needed. The only things I have heard and seen in his time in the NCAA was a very skilled player.
Check out this article on him.
I particurally love this line:
In chaos, he is their anchor. In rage, he is their bodyguard. In disarray, he is their communicator. In battle, he is their swagger.
"He brings everything," senior center and fellow tri-captain Blake Geoffrion said. "He does it all."
If you’re compiling a list of players indispensable to the cause as the Badgers head into the NCAA tournament, the first cluster includes junior goaltender Scott Gudmandson, Geoffrion and McDonagh.
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by Joe Fortunato on Aug 4, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Find me a current NHL player, who didn’t dominate at the NCAA level. Even the guys who are average in the NHL make it look easy in college.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
David Booth, Matt Greene, Duncan Keith
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
My Point exactly
All those guys spent atleast a year in the AHL before coming up to the show.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
that’s not what you said. none of those guys blew the barn doors off in college. yet they’re all regular NHLers now.
The point got lost as we moved down the thread
It started by saying that we were aiming too high putting McD in the Rangers lineup. Then I drew the comparison to Matt Carle, who DID blow the doors off in college, but is an average NHL defenseman now. By average, I mean he is not an All-Star and hasn’t been deemed “untouchable” by any of the 3 teams he’s played for so far. There are always players who grind through NCAA’s or Juniors, improve in the minors and make it to the bigs. I would consider them the exception, not the rule.
Of all those guys mentioned only Keith and Booth are real top 6 guys, and that’s if you agree that Booth was on the way to great things before the concussion. To put it in better terms how many of guys listed above would you trade Cally for? Keith and Booth would be the two for me, I’m not sold on Matt Moulson yet, bet he could be worth it.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't doubt his impact on Wisconsin
But the article also says he’s on the 2nd powerplay. How many NHL players wouldn’t crack the the top powerplay in a league two levels below them. The off-ice stuff is great, but you gotta have the skill to go with it to play at the top level. I think NHL level skill is something MCD still has to develop.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
while I agree with you that McD will probably need time in Hartford to get used to playing against men…all we really need him to be is solid in his own end, so he can replace Redden.
If he can be be a good shutdown guy, isn’t that all we really need out of a third pairing?
http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/
PP is an offensive skill, McD is a defensive d-man. I don’t see the relevance.
If you’re saying that McD isn’t ready to play an NHL PP, well then sure, I agree. If you’re saying his lack of PP skill is why he can’t play defense, I’m lost again.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying that being offensively skilled enough to contribute on the PP in college, gives you average skill in the NHL.
There’s a definite learning curve. If McD was playing the college game at close to NHL speed, he might be able to rely on talent to overcome inexperience. Some players who are just THAT GOOD can do that and make the jump. I think McD will have to take his lumps in the NHL, develop his game, and with hard work should be ready to make an impact in a season or two.
Ok, I'm lost.
PP ability is a special teams skill that accounts for 6-10 minutes per team, per night, on average. How does that skill have anything to do with how well McDonagh plays defense at even strength, which is the most important thing he’ll have to do?
I don’t understand how you’re making that leap. I get that you’re making the translation saying the offensive skill would translate to speed….but what if he just isn’t talented offensively but is a force defensively, ala Volchenkov’s game? Why would his PP ability indictate that?
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying that if you have AVERAGE NHL puck handling skill, the ability to make a good first pass, the vision to move a puck, the basic stickhandlling to hold the blueline and steer out of traffic, you should be one of the top 2 offensive defensemen on your college team.
Oh ok. Except he’s not an offensive defenseman, nor expected to be.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
What I’m trying to get at…you seem to think that unless he develops his offensive game, he’s not good enough for the NHL, which is fair if he was expected to come in and be Rob Scuderi or something. Except that’s not the role he’s coming in for.
As long as he has the defense down, he can make this team, and his play at Wisconsin gives a strong indication that he can play defense.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if you aren’t an offensive defenseman, you have to be able to handle the puck at a BASIC level. I’m saying that if he could do that right now, he would be on of the two best options on his team among D-men.
He might not be an “offensive defenseman” but unless all he’s going to do is stand infront of the the net and dump the puck in the corner, he needs to up his game. I would say that a group of 3rd line NHL guys could compete with most first lines on NCAA teams. There is a jump in talent, and a big one between the two level. If McD’s has the skill set of an NHL player, he should be playing in the NHL, and I would hope, on skill alone he would be one of Wisconsin’s top 2 options on defense.
In simple terms, I don’t think a NCAA top pair is even a definite 3rd pair in the NHL. If you’re a NHL ready player in the NHL you should be Top Everything on your squad.
Fair enough..I’m not trying to really argue as much get clarification…you seem to make a lot of jumps in your head but only give the conclusions. You tend to think about hockey alot differently than I, so it helps to get all the information out, even if I have to beat it out of you.
McDonagh is part of the 1st pair on defense for Wisconsin, he’s just not for the PP. I don’t follow college hockey close enough to know, but I would say the possiblity exists that they have two guys who are more offensive in nature, have better shots, etc…that might not necessarily mean their NHL players, just that they have college PP skill.
I disagree that you need to be the proverbial 5-tool all around player to be NHL ready. I think as long as you do certain things well, you can jump right in. Really, we’re both just speculating on what McDonagh might do, we’ll just have to wait to see what actually happens.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think I see things a little bit differently then some people. I know you’re a big stats guy. I played up through college and along the way had the opportunity to skate with some pretty good players who have gone D-1 and beyond. I’ve seen alot of live D1 and AHL games, since I’m not in the NYC area. The thing I notice, when I’m going from NCAA to AHL to NHL live, is the huge step in skill level.
As much as we might give shit to players like Boyle or Voros, i assure you if you skated with them, they could do things that would amaze you – AND THEY’RE NOT EVEN GOOD by NHL standards. There is an unbelievable level of skill that is par for the course in the NHL.
My problem with McD, and the idea of pushing some of these other prospects for that matter, is that if you don’t have those tools firing at the right speed when you come up, not only are you adjusting to a faster game, and better competion, but you’re trying to compensate for what’s missing as well.
When you see a guy who’s “Got It”, there is no question about it. I think back to watching AA play the season before last at the AHL level. He owned the ice. The opponents were on their heals all season playing against him. But doing that at the AHL isn’t enough to keep him from having to adjust again at the NHL level.
Well, I’ve become a big numbers guy, they help to compensate for not being able to watch 1000 games a year to know all the players. Plus it helps that you don’t need to remember as much when you can just look it up.
I knew nothing about most advanced stats as recently as 18 months ago. I’ve always watched the game (and still do) without thinking about the numbers at all.
I get the skill difference, but it’s also possible to have certain tools that are NHL ready (skating, stick handling, whatever) and others that are not. In this case, I think McDonagh’s got the skills to play defense at the NHL level, but his offense is not ready. To me, that’s good enough, he’d be replacing Redden, and that’s basically Redden’s calling card at this point.
I’m not “pushing” him to make the team, but I think the Rangers organization is.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford
by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not knocking you for being a numbers guy by any means. I like it actually, I’m learning quite a bit myself from you, and I appreciate it. I actually feel that your statistical analysis is the ying to my “stick ’em in the ribs” yang – and by the end of a legenthy thread we’ve covered all the angles.
I just like to watch hockey. I have to pay for the NHL Ticket so I don’t get blacked out where I live, and I usually catch a late game after the Rangers. I have two AHL teams and two DI teams near me, and since tickets to any of them are cheap, I go to games when I get the chance. I also can catch a train to city pretty fast, so I meet my brother for as many games at the Garden (or Rangers at the Rock – SO CHEAP!!!!!) as I can.
Anyway, I think that watching how players in different organizations and teams progress, or dont, its made me a bit more realistic, or cynical if the blog prefers, on what the future might hold for some of our prospects. It’s don’t think of it as a knock on them personally, but more as a reality check. Everyone who makes the show has seriously beaten the odds.
With that mindset, I tend to look for the guys who REALLY show that “something”. I saw it with AA, and I was hooked. I think Krieder has it, and if he does,and hope he’ll be on the squad by the end of the season (post BC). I think if you take any player who belongs in the NHL, and but him down a level, you’ll see a real show – 1st line, 4th line doesn’t matter. The guys who are really gonna be something wouldn’t just skate through a brick wall to score the game winning goal, they’d skate through the wall to TAKE THE SHOT that their teamate would score the winner on.
All in all, I’m sure we’ll agree to disagree plenty in the future, and hope we can both continue to provide some of the most informational, thought provoking and educational banter on ’the banter".
Btw – still wanna take Boogie in some kind of friendly wager. I’m thinking vs Dan G ? Maybe use goals, assists, hits – and then something with fights, fights won, and penalties taken and succesfully killed. I know you that adds three columns in my favor, but you seem so convinced he’ll only get 6 mins a night …
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure you that if you make USA national teams as a D-man, you have BASIC puck handling skills.
by NTB on Aug 4, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
There’s actually nothing else to add.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
by Joe Fortunato on Aug 4, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I would hope the Isles can be an under-19 team. What’s your point?
Are you saying making the World Juniors is meaningless? Doesn’t serve as a signal that these players probably have some skill?
by NTB on Aug 4, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying that those are the best players, at the time, between the ages of 17 and 19. The NHL is the 30 teams of the best players in the world between the ages of 19 – 35+.
Lots of good players have been on WJC teams – so have Al Montaya and Jamie Lundmark.
Well, if McDonagh can follow the same path as Staal when he turned pro (yes I know Staal played juniors and not NCAA): make the team, have the coaches shield him and ease him into, I’d be happy. I don’t think McDonagh will be as good as Staal, but I seem to have a bit more faith in the current Ranger evaluation staff that you do.
by NTB on Aug 4, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Have the Rangers said McD is gonna start on the big team?
This is just my understanding, but I thought the purpose of getting McD to an NHL contract was to get him to the AHL and continue his development. I also heard the Habs wanted him to leave after his sophmore year for the same reason, and his reluctance was part of what made him moveable.
I think the Junior game translates a bit more closely to the NHL game then NCAA’s does. If he can make the team, and make us better, that’s great. I just don’t see that happening.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 4, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
this sucks
Can training camp just start now? All this speculation and prognosticating is killing me. How many weeks do we have till this kicks off?
Nothing says powerplay like strobe lights and video game music.
I'm not a cap expert by any means...
… but isn’t there some hit to the Rangers’ cap even if Redden is demoted? I thought it was something like 1/2 the cap hit, but spread over more years. Can someone clarify? Thanks!
by YanksGiantsRangersKnicks on Aug 4, 2010 1:02 PM EDT reply actions
nope no cap hit. there would be a cap hit if the rangers tried to buy him out. or if they tried to bring him up through re-entry waivers and another team claimed him at half price (like the rangers did with avery). in the latter case, the cap hit would be half of what it is now for the life of the contract. i’m not sure about the implications of a buy out, but i was under the impression that the cap hit would linger for a long time
Buyout is based on a formula. Easiest just to plug into the capgeek calculator to see the ramifications.
Wade Redden is 33 years old on the buyout date of August 4, 2010, putting the total buyout cost at $15,333,333 spread over 8 years. His contract was originally valued at $39,000,000 with an annual cap hit of $6,500,000 beginning in 2008 and ending in 2014. The following is a season-by-season breakdown of the buyout. A negative buyout cap hit number indicates a credit.
WADE REDDEN BUYOUT FROM CAPGEEK.COM
2010-2011: $1,916,667
2011-2012: $1,916,667
2012-2013: $3,416,667
2013-2014: $3,416,667
2014-2015: $1,916,667
2015-2016: $1,916,667
2016-2017: $1,916,667
2017-2018: $1,916,667
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford
by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. I became a little lazy. Knew there was an algorithm, but decided it would be nice if someone asking a question let his own fingers do the walking if he really wanted to know.
I just wanted to make sure the new sig was working.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford
by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. That is good to know. I have a number of other players I would like to demote as well… I know that is not possible, but I can only wish.
by YanksGiantsRangersKnicks on Aug 4, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s a limit on how many “professionals” can play in Hartford. You can only have 6 guys over 260 games (one slot for up to 320 games)
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford
by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
good thing we got rid of huggy bear
Does that mean if we kept Brashear, we wouldn’t have been able to banish redden to HFD because Brash and Redden both have more than 320 games?
No..they both could go, just as there is room for both White and Redden if need be this year.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford
by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
his cap hit comes back at the end of the season/ start of next season, so we’d have to factor him into the cap and still be within the 10% offseason overage allowed.
i think.
Correct. But the other money will come off so it shouldn’t be an issue. They’ll have to use the overage again next year and then demote Redden again.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford
by George E. Ays on Aug 4, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
also off topic
that is most certainly a 2 minute delay of game penalty.the pic of Redden at the top of the thread.
Hank deserves better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Staal
I don’t think the Rangers are going to demote Redden, not with 4 yrs remaining. They will get Staal signed for the year, but he is going to test the market after that anyway. MZA will most likely make the team right off the bat. Who is he competing with? The NHL and SEL are not much different these days. He’s going to be good enough to get a spot. MDZ will also need to be signed in a couple of years and Staal might be the odd man out unless the cap goes up. The Rangers wil have a better chance at moving Rosi via trade to free up the cap space. If Redden get’s demoted for 4 years it’s pretty much Sather’s job and he’s to cocky to let something like that happen. He can still make an arguement and crazy as that sounds if Redden stays up. He can’t say anything demoting him.
Trade Rosi for a 7th round pick (A bag of pucks) and bring up Mcdonagh and Mcilrath. Playing in the minors does nothing for those two D. They are both physical, so playing in the minors is a waste of their time unless they prove they’re not ready for the NHL yet. You can’t gain experience in the A I don’t care what anyone says. Hitting Billy Zinger (Made up name) is totally different than trying to hit Ovechkin. If Zach Bogosian and many other D in the league can step right in, then they can as well.

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