Callahan and Dubinsky - WOWY and Conclusions
In Parts One, Two, and Three, we tackled the majority of Brandon Dubinsky and Ryan Callahan's contributions to the
Simply put, WOWY is a look at a single player's impact on the teammates he is playing with. This is not an original idea, it started (I believe) with Tyler Dellow's articles on Shawn Horcoff and Alexander Ovechkin, and was adapted quite well by BenHasna at Lighthouse Hockey to look at Frans Nielsen Now, it's my turn, using our two popular players. While they focused on Corsi events (total shots directed at net), I'm going to use Fenwick data.
Fenwick% is the ratio of shots on goal + missed shots for versus SOG + missed shots against. As you will see below, Avery & Dubinsky were on the ice together for 126 total shots, 60.32% (76) of which were Rangers' shots. As a reference, the
First, we'll take a look at Dubinsky. Like the examples, I'm using only forwards with whom Dubinsky has 100 events with:
|
|
With Dubinsky |
Without Dubinsky |
Dubinsky Without |
|
||||
|
|
Total Events |
Fenwick% |
Total Events |
Fenwick% |
Delta |
Total Events |
Fenwick% |
Delta |
|
Avery |
126 |
0.6032 |
995 |
0.5126 |
17.67% |
1346 |
0.5052 |
19.40% |
|
Drury |
218 |
0.5138 |
1079 |
0.4486 |
14.53% |
1254 |
0.5136 |
0.04% |
|
Prospal |
403 |
0.5385 |
1218 |
0.4992 |
7.87% |
1069 |
0.5042 |
6.80% |
|
Christensen |
348 |
0.4799 |
560 |
0.4732 |
1.42% |
1124 |
0.524 |
-8.42% |
|
Gaborik |
795 |
0.4994 |
953 |
0.5037 |
-0.85% |
677 |
0.5303 |
-5.83% |
|
Anisimov |
101 |
0.4752 |
1126 |
0.516 |
-7.91% |
1371 |
0.5164 |
-7.98% |
So what first stands out is that no matter who Dubinsky is separated from, the
Callahan's numbers and a final summary, after these words, which aren't sponsored.
|
With Callahan |
Without Callahan |
Callahan Without |
|
|||||
|
Events |
Fenwick% |
Events |
Fenwick% |
Delta |
Events |
Fenwick% |
Delta |
|
|
Gaborik |
74 |
0.6757 |
1674 |
0.494 |
36.78% |
1260 |
0.4873 |
38.66% |
|
Christensen |
153 |
0.5098 |
755 |
0.4689 |
8.72% |
1181 |
0.4962 |
2.74% |
|
Drury |
643 |
0.4681 |
654 |
0.4511 |
3.77% |
691 |
0.5253 |
-10.89% |
|
Prospal |
249 |
0.5221 |
1372 |
0.5066 |
3.06% |
1085 |
0.4922 |
6.07% |
|
Anisimov |
181 |
0.5249 |
1046 |
0.5105 |
2.82% |
1153 |
0.4935 |
6.36% |
|
Avery |
247 |
0.5263 |
874 |
0.5217 |
0.88% |
1087 |
0.4913 |
7.12% |
Despite only 74 events, I've left Gaborik in for continuity between the two players.
Here, we see a dramatically different picture than Dubinsky. Callahan is benefitting more from playing with our top 6 forwards then those forwards are benefitting from him, and in fact without help, Callahan often gets outshot while he's on the ice. This is where some context comes in. As we saw from their individual zone starts, Callahan had about 3% more defensive zone starts than Brandon. While that's not enough to justify the entire
Here's a look at their shifts together:
|
|
Total Shots For |
Total Shots Against |
Total Events |
Fenwick% |
|
Cally & Duby |
165 |
155 |
320 |
0.5156 |
|
Callahan w/o |
499 |
515 |
1014 |
0.4921 |
|
Dubinsky w/o |
591 |
561 |
1152 |
0.5130 |
When they're together, Dubinsky's the driving force, which is to be expected based on their individual WOWYs.
So now that we've put every part of their games under the microstat microscope, what did we determine?
Let's review:
Callahan - His even strength production is tied reliably to his defensive responsibilities. He makes up for a weaker shooting percentage with a strong ability to get shots released. He's an excellent penalty killer. He shows strong PP value when playing with excellent teammates, has no history of value when he is w/o them. His aggressive style helps give him a strong penalty differential. He's unable to drive play himself, but players benefit from having him on the line with them.
Conclusion: He's a middle 6 forward, with the probable ceiling of a middle 6 forward. He will mostly provide a baseline of 40-45 points going forward. With powerplay time and/or an ease in defensive assignments, he could have a max of around 55-60 points. He'll give consistent 18-22 goal seasons because of his ability to get off 200+ shots.
Dubinsky - His even strength production is tied reliably tied to his own skill and effort. He plays tough minutes and handles them well, showing ability to outshoot even without help. He has put up good numbers as a PKer, but mostly has Henrik to thank for them. He is not a PP marvel, but has shown consistent growth over time. Like his reputation, his penalty differential represents a lack of consistency in effort and production. The puck moves in the right direction while he's on the ice.
Conclusion: He's a middle 6 forward, with strong indicators of a top 6 forward and a small chance of becoming a solid 1st line forward. He will provide a baseline of 45-50 points going forward. With powerplay time and consistency, he has a potential for 60-65. He'll give consistent 15 goal seasons, needing increased shot totals to elevate to be a reliable 20 goal threat.
In essence, we end up with a confirmation of what we already thought we knew. We have two very similar players, the younger with a slightly higher ceiling based on his ability to perform better against high level competition. Both provide valuable roles to the
In Part 5.....just kidding. That's everything there is to tell, so far.
Stats credit to timeonice.com
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whoops! hit post too soon…
Confirming what you’ve been saying for some time with a litany of stats – very well written and strong conclusions.
It’s hard to argue that Cally is the better player (at least potentially) but I’m sure he’ll remain the fan favorite. Like you said, I hope they remain Rangers for a long time, because what we have here are vital components that any Cup team needs (but we don’t have all the rest of the pieces yet).
I’m hoping they both take a step forward, as I’d like to see Dubi jump clearly into top 6 range.
Awesome job – though numbers don’t tell us everything, they can tell us a shit ton, and you’ve put together a really helpful series here.
Yeah..Drury was. Dubinsky was second (making it all the more curious Torts wants him on the wing, Dubinsky’s never been under 51%)
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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Jim and I said all season
If Drury wasn’t winning face offs, he wasn’t doing anything
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by Joe Fortunato on Aug 6, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
He was...
Funding pizza franchises in his native CT.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 6, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
You and JIm were wrong, but faceoffs were a key element to his contribution. Not to say Drury had a good season by any means, but Torts didn’t do him any favors with the way he used him. Still, nobody on this team had a higher G/60 on this team than Gaborik.
Drury’s just on the list of guys that need PP time to thrive. We have too many of those guys these days, especially on a team that was 21st in the league in total PP minutes last year.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh
So you’re saying that Drury did al the little things right?
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by Joe Fortunato on Aug 6, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
No, all I said was he’s good at faceoffs and was scoring goals at a better clip than anyone not named Gaborik.
There were enough games he was a no show to almost justify your premise, but the no-shows weren’t based on his faceoff ability that day.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's just PP
Dru’s ship has sailed. He’s not getting any younger. His playing day’s are almost over. One season, he’ll be retiring the blades, hanging up the axe. Until then we just have to work around him.
Your anti-agenda Drury is well known.
And not that I think you’ll budge on that stance, but here goes anyway. He had at least 15 PP points every year until last year’s 8 points (~50% drop), where not-coincidentally his PP time dropped from ~300 minutes per season to 150. (same 50% drop). Combine that with the 10th worst zonestart in the league it would make it hard for anyone to actually put up decent points.
Even still, Drury only trailed Gaborik, Prospal, Dubinsky, and Anisimov in ES scoring on the team. IMO, he’s far from done, though he of course is slowing down, as people tend do improve at 34 years old.
Now that said, unless White (or someone else) takes the Betts role, Drury’s going to end up with impossible assignments again. So he’ll probably put up the same disappointing season again. Then we can all curse his contract, again.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
haha awesome…
you’d figure someone who watches enough games could come to that conclusion and not need stats, but hey…there it is
good shit smurf
http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/
But every guy on that list was a center for atleast part of the season. He outscored EC, but EC has job security as he was gelled better with Gaby then anyone else.
Keeping Drury on the 4th line isn’t a conspiracy to keep him from scoring, it’s cause he isn’t as good as our other options. If Dru wants those minutes he has to prove he’s better then guys in front of him. If he can’t climb the depth chart he has to take what’s left. And when the best he has to offer is only good enough for the 4th line at $7.5 mil per, he’s gonna hear about it from fans like me.
Excellent analysis by the way.
I’ve tried to convince some of my non-stat savvy Rangers fan friends that Dubinsky has the potential to be a bigger difference maker between the two, particularly at 5 on 5.
The main gripe people have against Dubi is that he’s ultimately benefited from playing with the top players on the Rangers and while he’s never going to form a Gretzky-Kurri or Oates-Hull type tandem with their top sniper du jour, he’s capable of playing with and against top line players.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 6, 2010 9:41 AM EDT reply actions
The main gripe people have against Dubi is that he’s ultimately benefited from playing with the top players on the Rangers
I covered that briefly with Dubinsky’s individual play. Yes, he’s benefitted from Jagr and then Gaborik, but that’s also led to harder competition than Callahan has had to face. That’s in part what the WOWY is trying to show. If you take away Gaborik from Dubinsky and you see that Dubi is getting 53% of the shots taken while he’s on. So he’s certainly not getting overwhelmed, and in fact the ease of competition that comes from getting away from Gaborik seems to allow Dubinsky and teammates to heavily outshoot the opponents.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't have any issues with him playing with those guys
If a less established/less skilled guy can play with the stars then so be it. If the Rangers could find another legitimate point per game player I’d be fine with Dubi being the Steve Rucchin between an equivalent of Selanne and Kariya.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 6, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Great analysis
What’s the over/under for the first comment about undervaluing Callahan’s hits, heart, and, most of all, Grission?
Most of those comments got out of the way in Part 1 when I broke down Callahan himself.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, great job smurf. I was thinking that Dubi should be on the first line this year. But after reading your analysis I believe he should be on the second line (maybe with Frolov?) as he seems to dominate second line opponents.
Also like you said Smurf, I wonder why Torts likes Dubi better on the wing since he is our second best faceoff guy. Maybe because he’s so good along the boards and below the goal line and Torts doesn’t want him to have the defensive responsibility of being the third man high? I dunno. Also he might not be as good positionally in the defensive zone because as a center you have to help the d-men down low where as a winger they just have to cover the point men.
Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
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what if we combined some of these ideas seeing as how the concern on AA is his faceoffs, the concern on dubi is he gets a little lost in the middle during the play, so let dubi take the draws and play left wing during play?
yea thats what I was thinking. Let Dubi take defensive zone faceoffs and then immediately switch to wing.
Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
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by 76 Blueshirt on Aug 6, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
In the defensive zone that could lead to serious problems…losing a draw and having players scrambling back to their positions would outweigh the value of the extra draws Dubinsky might win. You would have to commit to using AA on the wing until you can regain control.
So an “immediate switch” to wing wouldn’t work, IMO. An eventual one is fine though.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed you dont play the draw and dash move. let him take the draws and at appropriate times or from straight line changes they play the other position.
by Michael Gleich on Aug 6, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
What about the defense?
Great stuff Smurf, I’ve been saying for quite sometime that I bellieve Dubi has a slight edge over Cally in terms of potential mostly because I believe Dubi has a better on ice visions and overall a better hockey IQ than Callahan, which of course leads to more plays being made or as you put it, higher Fenwick %…good to see some stats backup up the observations
My question though comes back to defense….do you think with Dubi getting a lot of first line minutes he is playing with better defensemen who have a better ability to get the puck up ice?
I just think that this Fenwick data would be very useful for judging defensemen, since offensive breakouts generally start in the defensive zone…some defensemen are much better at making that crucial first pass or leading the rush than others
Just my thoughts….
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My question though comes back to defense….do you think with Dubi getting a lot of first line minutes he is playing with better defensemen who have a better ability to get the puck up ice?
I didn’t run the comparisons with the defense, but it’s easy enough to do, just takes some time. I can give you the list for the individual defenseman this season though:
MDZ 50.3% Girardi 47.4% Redden 50.3% Staal 47.9% Rozsival 49.3% Gilroy 52.4%
If I had to guess, Dubinsky has the most time with Staal-Girardi-Rozsival of any of them. I would also venture to guess that the 6 of them are roughly equivalent, if there was a solid adjustment to be made for competition faced, so there may not be a noticeable effect. I’ll check it out though.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Great analysis
It’s great the way you put the explanation about the numbers for us just starting to branch out into these types of stats. I myself find myself frequenting behind the net and similar sites, aka becoming a stat guy, and I may very well be all your fault lol.
Keep up the great work.
by Conway on Aug 6, 2010 12:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Callys value imo is his aggressive forecheck, that is where he fits in the system Torts likes to play. But Dubi is the better player, he sees the ice better and positions himself well. He gets in better scoring positions than Cally, slot as opposed from taking very wide angle shots that Cally likes to shoot. Torts wanting him on wing as opposed to center may have to do with a much higher shooting percentage. Better stick handler, passer and PKer too.
Regarding Dubinsky:
Like his reputation, his penalty differential represents a lack of consistency in effort and production.
I think this small portion of Dubi’s analysis is understated. There are stretches when he is noticeably absent on the ice which is frustrating knowing how talented he is and how good he could be if he gave a consistent effort night in night out (Go, run-on sentence!). Hopefully Torts can squeeze out that extra 20% of him, which, IMO would make him a solid 1st liner.
MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That’s not to say he’s lazy or anything, just a tad unfocused, if you will.
MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by stonecoldcory on Aug 6, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
awesome!
man thats just great intel,thanks for all your work……..i love this effin place.
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