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Callahan and Dubinsky - WOWY and Conclusions

In Parts One, Two, and Three, we tackled the majority of Brandon Dubinsky and Ryan Callahan's contributions to the team.  Here, we'll take a look at their contributions to their teammates, using a With or Without You (WOWY) analysis.

Simply put, WOWY is a look at a single player's impact on the teammates he is playing with.  This is not an original idea, it started (I believe) with Tyler Dellow's articles on Shawn Horcoff and Alexander Ovechkin, and was adapted quite well by BenHasna at Lighthouse Hockey to look at Frans Nielsen  Now, it's my turn, using our two popular players.  While they focused on Corsi events (total shots directed at net), I'm going to use Fenwick data. 

Fenwick% is the ratio of shots on goal + missed shots for versus SOG + missed shots against.  As you will see below, Avery & Dubinsky were on the ice together for 126 total shots, 60.32% (76) of which were Rangers' shots.  As a reference, the team's total rate this year was .4961.  These numbers apply exclusively to 5v5 situations.

First, we'll take a look at Dubinsky.  Like the examples, I'm using only forwards with whom Dubinsky has 100 events with:

 

With Dubinsky

Without Dubinsky

Dubinsky Without

 

 

Total Events

Fenwick%

Total Events

Fenwick%

Delta

Total Events

Fenwick%

Delta

Avery

126

0.6032

995

0.5126

17.67%

1346

0.5052

19.40%

Drury

218

0.5138

1079

0.4486

14.53%

1254

0.5136

0.04%

Prospal

403

0.5385

1218

0.4992

7.87%

1069

0.5042

6.80%

Christensen

348

0.4799

560

0.4732

1.42%

1124

0.524

-8.42%

Gaborik

795

0.4994

953

0.5037

-0.85%

677

0.5303

-5.83%

Anisimov

101

0.4752

1126

0.516

-7.91%

1371

0.5164

-7.98%

So what first stands out is that no matter who Dubinsky is separated from, the team outshoots while he's on the ice.  That is a strong positive, indicative of him being able to push the puck forward himself.  The second thing is the common line suggestion of Dubinsky-EC-Gaborik that we talk about.  With or without Dubinsky, neither EC nor Gaborik show much of an effect on their own rates.  However, Dubinsky is seriously "hurt" by playing with those two.  That can be explained by the QComp levels of the trio, which not only were 1-2-3 on the Rangers, but top 7 in the league.  Even the best players would be hard pressed to overcome that level of competition.  That he and Gaborik broke even, and Dubinsky/Christensen were not completely overwhelmed are all positive signs.

Callahan's numbers and a final summary, after these words, which aren't sponsored.

Star-divide

With Callahan

Without Callahan

Callahan Without

 

Events

Fenwick%

Events

Fenwick%

Delta

Events

Fenwick%

Delta

Gaborik

74

0.6757

1674

0.494

36.78%

1260

0.4873

38.66%

Christensen

153

0.5098

755

0.4689

8.72%

1181

0.4962

2.74%

Drury

643

0.4681

654

0.4511

3.77%

691

0.5253

-10.89%

Prospal

249

0.5221

1372

0.5066

3.06%

1085

0.4922

6.07%

Anisimov

181

0.5249

1046

0.5105

2.82%

1153

0.4935

6.36%

Avery

247

0.5263

874

0.5217

0.88%

1087

0.4913

7.12%

Despite only 74 events, I've left Gaborik in for continuity between the two players.

Here, we see a dramatically different picture than Dubinsky.  Callahan is benefitting more from playing with our top 6 forwards then those forwards are benefitting from him, and in fact without help, Callahan often gets outshot while he's on the ice.  This is where some context comes in.  As we saw from their individual zone starts, Callahan had about 3% more defensive zone starts than Brandon.  While that's not enough to justify the entire gap between the two players, it does mean that it would be slightly harder for Callahan to outshoot.  That point is never more evident than when Callahan is with Drury, who's ZoneStart was the worst on the Rangers at 38.7, and among the worst in the league.  That together they were only outshot by 43 (300-343) is a testament to both.

Here's a look at their shifts together:

 

Total Shots For

Total Shots Against

Total Events

Fenwick%

Cally & Duby

165

155

320

0.5156

Callahan w/o

499

515

1014

0.4921

Dubinsky w/o

591

561

1152

0.5130

When they're together, Dubinsky's the driving force, which is to be expected based on their individual WOWYs. 

So now that we've put every part of their games under the microstat microscope, what did we determine?

Let's review:

Callahan - His even strength production is tied reliably to his defensive responsibilities.  He makes up for a weaker shooting percentage with a strong ability to get shots released.  He's an excellent penalty killer.  He shows strong PP value when playing with excellent teammates, has no history of value when he is w/o them.  His aggressive style helps give him a strong penalty differential.  He's unable to drive play himself, but players benefit from having him on the line with them. 

Conclusion:  He's a middle 6 forward, with the probable ceiling of a middle 6 forward.  He will mostly provide a baseline of 40-45 points going forward.  With powerplay time and/or an ease in defensive assignments, he could have a max of around 55-60 points.  He'll give consistent 18-22 goal seasons because of his ability to get off 200+ shots.

Dubinsky - His even strength production is tied reliably tied to his own skill and effort.  He plays tough minutes and handles them well, showing ability to outshoot even without help.  He has put up good numbers as a PKer, but mostly has Henrik to thank for them.  He is not a PP marvel, but has shown consistent growth over time.  Like his reputation, his penalty differential represents a lack of consistency in effort and production.  The puck moves in the right direction while he's on the ice. 

Conclusion:  He's a middle 6 forward, with strong indicators of a top 6 forward and a small chance of becoming a solid 1st line forward.  He will provide a baseline of 45-50 points going forward.  With powerplay time and consistency, he has a potential for 60-65.  He'll give consistent 15 goal seasons, needing increased shot totals to elevate to be a reliable 20 goal threat.

In essence, we end up with a confirmation of what we already thought we knew.  We have two very similar players, the younger with a slightly higher ceiling based on his ability to perform better against high level competition.  Both provide valuable roles to the team, and should remain Rangers for a long time.

In Part 5.....just kidding.  That's everything there is to tell, so far.

Stats credit to timeonice.com

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whoops! hit post too soon…

Confirming what you’ve been saying for some time with a litany of stats – very well written and strong conclusions.
It’s hard to argue that Cally is the better player (at least potentially) but I’m sure he’ll remain the fan favorite. Like you said, I hope they remain Rangers for a long time, because what we have here are vital components that any Cup team needs (but we don’t have all the rest of the pieces yet).
I’m hoping they both take a step forward, as I’d like to see Dubi jump clearly into top 6 range.

Awesome job – though numbers don’t tell us everything, they can tell us a shit ton, and you’ve put together a really helpful series here.

by j-red on Aug 6, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

great stuff.

Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.

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by poploser on Aug 6, 2010 8:47 AM EDT reply actions  

great job,I’m a long time Rangers fan,
Who was best face off man last season,I think Drury ?

by nyr121 on Aug 6, 2010 9:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah..Drury was. Dubinsky was second (making it all the more curious Torts wants him on the wing, Dubinsky’s never been under 51%)

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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jim and I said all season

If Drury wasn’t winning face offs, he wasn’t doing anything

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII

by Joe Fortunato on Aug 6, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was...

Funding pizza franchises in his native CT.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 6, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

You and JIm were wrong, but faceoffs were a key element to his contribution. Not to say Drury had a good season by any means, but Torts didn’t do him any favors with the way he used him. Still, nobody on this team had a higher G/60 on this team than Gaborik.

Drury’s just on the list of guys that need PP time to thrive. We have too many of those guys these days, especially on a team that was 21st in the league in total PP minutes last year.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford

by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh

So you’re saying that Drury did al the little things right?

Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.

"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII

by Joe Fortunato on Aug 6, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, all I said was he’s good at faceoffs and was scoring goals at a better clip than anyone not named Gaborik.

There were enough games he was a no show to almost justify your premise, but the no-shows weren’t based on his faceoff ability that day.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford

by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's just PP

Dru’s ship has sailed. He’s not getting any younger. His playing day’s are almost over. One season, he’ll be retiring the blades, hanging up the axe. Until then we just have to work around him.

by BuckarooClub on Aug 6, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your anti-agenda Drury is well known.

And not that I think you’ll budge on that stance, but here goes anyway. He had at least 15 PP points every year until last year’s 8 points (~50% drop), where not-coincidentally his PP time dropped from ~300 minutes per season to 150. (same 50% drop). Combine that with the 10th worst zonestart in the league it would make it hard for anyone to actually put up decent points.

Even still, Drury only trailed Gaborik, Prospal, Dubinsky, and Anisimov in ES scoring on the team. IMO, he’s far from done, though he of course is slowing down, as people tend do improve at 34 years old.

Now that said, unless White (or someone else) takes the Betts role, Drury’s going to end up with impossible assignments again. So he’ll probably put up the same disappointing season again. Then we can all curse his contract, again.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford

by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha awesome…

you’d figure someone who watches enough games could come to that conclusion and not need stats, but hey…there it is

good shit smurf

http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/

by The Suit on Aug 6, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

But every guy on that list was a center for atleast part of the season. He outscored EC, but EC has job security as he was gelled better with Gaby then anyone else.

Keeping Drury on the 4th line isn’t a conspiracy to keep him from scoring, it’s cause he isn’t as good as our other options. If Dru wants those minutes he has to prove he’s better then guys in front of him. If he can’t climb the depth chart he has to take what’s left. And when the best he has to offer is only good enough for the 4th line at $7.5 mil per, he’s gonna hear about it from fans like me.

by BuckarooClub on Aug 7, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great! Excellent data points and analysis. I hope someone in the organization is responsible for putting together analytics like this but for some reason I highly doubt it.

by jigblahdah on Aug 6, 2010 9:35 AM EDT reply actions  

Excellent analysis by the way.

I’ve tried to convince some of my non-stat savvy Rangers fan friends that Dubinsky has the potential to be a bigger difference maker between the two, particularly at 5 on 5.

The main gripe people have against Dubi is that he’s ultimately benefited from playing with the top players on the Rangers and while he’s never going to form a Gretzky-Kurri or Oates-Hull type tandem with their top sniper du jour, he’s capable of playing with and against top line players.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 6, 2010 9:41 AM EDT reply actions  

The main gripe people have against Dubi is that he’s ultimately benefited from playing with the top players on the Rangers

I covered that briefly with Dubinsky’s individual play. Yes, he’s benefitted from Jagr and then Gaborik, but that’s also led to harder competition than Callahan has had to face. That’s in part what the WOWY is trying to show. If you take away Gaborik from Dubinsky and you see that Dubi is getting 53% of the shots taken while he’s on. So he’s certainly not getting overwhelmed, and in fact the ease of competition that comes from getting away from Gaborik seems to allow Dubinsky and teammates to heavily outshoot the opponents.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford

by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't have any issues with him playing with those guys

If a less established/less skilled guy can play with the stars then so be it. If the Rangers could find another legitimate point per game player I’d be fine with Dubi being the Steve Rucchin between an equivalent of Selanne and Kariya.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 6, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great analysis

What’s the over/under for the first comment about undervaluing Callahan’s hits, heart, and, most of all, Grission?

by dar9898 on Aug 6, 2010 9:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Most of those comments got out of the way in Part 1 when I broke down Callahan himself.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford

by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

great work as always smurf.

by Michael Gleich on Aug 6, 2010 10:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes, great job smurf. I was thinking that Dubi should be on the first line this year. But after reading your analysis I believe he should be on the second line (maybe with Frolov?) as he seems to dominate second line opponents.

Also like you said Smurf, I wonder why Torts likes Dubi better on the wing since he is our second best faceoff guy. Maybe because he’s so good along the boards and below the goal line and Torts doesn’t want him to have the defensive responsibility of being the third man high? I dunno. Also he might not be as good positionally in the defensive zone because as a center you have to help the d-men down low where as a winger they just have to cover the point men.

Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
The core of the 2014 Stanley Cup winners!

by 76 Blueshirt on Aug 6, 2010 11:47 AM EDT reply actions  

what if we combined some of these ideas seeing as how the concern on AA is his faceoffs, the concern on dubi is he gets a little lost in the middle during the play, so let dubi take the draws and play left wing during play?

by Michael Gleich on Aug 6, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

That could work really well. I’ve also heard Frolov can play on the right. A 2nd line of Dubs-AA-Frolov practically gives me a boner(no homo)

by Conway on Aug 6, 2010 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

yea thats what I was thinking. Let Dubi take defensive zone faceoffs and then immediately switch to wing.

Lundqvist-Staal-MDZ-McDonagh-Krieder-Stepan-MZA-Cally-Dubi-Gabby-AA-Grachev-Prust
The core of the 2014 Stanley Cup winners!

by 76 Blueshirt on Aug 6, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the defensive zone that could lead to serious problems…losing a draw and having players scrambling back to their positions would outweigh the value of the extra draws Dubinsky might win. You would have to commit to using AA on the wing until you can regain control.

So an “immediate switch” to wing wouldn’t work, IMO. An eventual one is fine though.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford

by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed you dont play the draw and dash move. let him take the draws and at appropriate times or from straight line changes they play the other position.

by Michael Gleich on Aug 6, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about the defense?

Great stuff Smurf, I’ve been saying for quite sometime that I bellieve Dubi has a slight edge over Cally in terms of potential mostly because I believe Dubi has a better on ice visions and overall a better hockey IQ than Callahan, which of course leads to more plays being made or as you put it, higher Fenwick %…good to see some stats backup up the observations

My question though comes back to defense….do you think with Dubi getting a lot of first line minutes he is playing with better defensemen who have a better ability to get the puck up ice?

I just think that this Fenwick data would be very useful for judging defensemen, since offensive breakouts generally start in the defensive zone…some defensemen are much better at making that crucial first pass or leading the rush than others

Just my thoughts….

http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/

by The Suit on Aug 6, 2010 12:12 PM EDT reply actions  

My question though comes back to defense….do you think with Dubi getting a lot of first line minutes he is playing with better defensemen who have a better ability to get the puck up ice?

I didn’t run the comparisons with the defense, but it’s easy enough to do, just takes some time. I can give you the list for the individual defenseman this season though:

MDZ 50.3% Girardi 47.4% Redden 50.3% Staal 47.9% Rozsival 49.3% Gilroy 52.4%

If I had to guess, Dubinsky has the most time with Staal-Girardi-Rozsival of any of them. I would also venture to guess that the 6 of them are roughly equivalent, if there was a solid adjustment to be made for competition faced, so there may not be a noticeable effect. I’ll check it out though.

Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter - "ARISTH"-Assuming Redden is sent to Hartford

by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, none of our defensemen are really elite puck movers anyway…interesting stuff though

http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/

by The Suit on Aug 6, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great analysis

It’s great the way you put the explanation about the numbers for us just starting to branch out into these types of stats. I myself find myself frequenting behind the net and similar sites, aka becoming a stat guy, and I may very well be all your fault lol.

Keep up the great work.

by Conway on Aug 6, 2010 12:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Callys value imo is his aggressive forecheck, that is where he fits in the system Torts likes to play. But Dubi is the better player, he sees the ice better and positions himself well. He gets in better scoring positions than Cally, slot as opposed from taking very wide angle shots that Cally likes to shoot. Torts wanting him on wing as opposed to center may have to do with a much higher shooting percentage. Better stick handler, passer and PKer too.

by Kmp on Aug 6, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

True, and to add to that, I think that there is more responsibility to defense at the center position than the wing, which is another reason he may be shifted over…

http://thehockeysuit.blogspot.com/

by The Suit on Aug 6, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

As always great job smurf!

by CTrangerfan on Aug 6, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Nicely done my man. Great stuff.

"Jaromir Jagr.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
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"Marian Gaborik.... it's a POWER PLAY GOAL!"
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by rmc235 on Aug 6, 2010 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice job Smurf… Excellent breakdown!

by one-bar on Aug 6, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Regarding Dubinsky:
Like his reputation, his penalty differential represents a lack of consistency in effort and production.

I think this small portion of Dubi’s analysis is understated. There are stretches when he is noticeably absent on the ice which is frustrating knowing how talented he is and how good he could be if he gave a consistent effort night in night out (Go, run-on sentence!). Hopefully Torts can squeeze out that extra 20% of him, which, IMO would make him a solid 1st liner.

MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by stonecoldcory on Aug 6, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

That’s not to say he’s lazy or anything, just a tad unfocused, if you will.

MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by stonecoldcory on Aug 6, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

awesome!

man thats just great intel,thanks for all your work……..i love this effin place.

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by JM82 on Aug 7, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions  

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