Bantering Points: Line Shuffling Begins, Who Plays Where?
by Bryan Winters on Oct 13, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
in New York Rangers Notes
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Print- Probably one of the most expected changes was the left winger, on the top line. Brandon Dubinsky saw a fair amount of time on the top line, during the Anaheim game. Although, do you think he's the best fit, or would someone else suffice?
- John Tortorella met with the media for the first time, after returning back from Europe. One of the hottest topics, is the current health of Marc Staal. Tortorella stated that Staal continues to receive treatment, and would not be practicing this week.
- We were all hoping for a turn-around season for Marian Gaborik this coming season. So far, he's been looking like his old self. Nick over at Rangers Tribune takes a look at why we could see the "old" Gaborik back this year.
- With the absence of Marc Staal on the top defensive pairing, someone had to step-up in his place. Not only one, but two took on this role so far. Those being Ryan McDonagh and Dan Girardi. Girardi has played about 30+ minutes per night,and added five blocked shots. From a mid-season call-up last season, to a mainstay on Broadway, Ryan McDonagh is in the same boat as Girardi. He averages around 27+ minutes per game, but has a ton of takeaways in the defensive end.
- I'm going to finish this off with a pretty sick looking background image. This is coming from the Rangers website, and I must say, it is pretty awesome.
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Dubi hasn’t been lighting up the scoreboard but he’s been a beast doing the little things. But he might be better served being back with the battery line.
We are going to go to Philadelphia... and we are going to win.- Glen Sather
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Oct 13, 2011 6:54 AM EDT reply actions
Given Staal situation, can't waste time experimenting.
Getting puck possession and attack zone time to relieve stress on D.
Go with what you know has worked at times in past..thats Pack line and Feds/Boyle/Prust. Only change is Stepan w/Richie and Gabby. Roll three and spot the 4th line guys.
Stepan/Richie/Gabby
Dubi/Artie/Cally
Feds/Boyle/Prust
Wolski/Rupp/Zucc
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Oct 13, 2011 7:40 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
MZA—predominantly a play-maker—feeding Boyle—a shoot-first kind of guy—makes perfect sense. Both Boyle and Prust will work hard in the corners—especially Prust—and MZA will do whatever it takes to find an open passing lane, creating one out of thin air at times if necessary.
I would not be opposed to MZA on the third line with Boyle and Prust, but Feds would be underutilized on the fourth line (spot duty? 7-8m per game?)
+1000. That’s my thinking with MZA. Putting him and EC on the 4th line together is laughable. I think Feds can handle 4th line better than most and they might get more minutes than the average 4th line which is good for everyone. Remember Shelley-AA-Prust? they were our best line back then (which isn’t saying much, lol).
by Richter1994 on Oct 13, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
The best way to get grit on the 4th line is to take the 3rd line and call them the 4th line, and take the skill guys (Wolski, EC, Zuc) and make that the 3rd line with 90% offensive zone starts.
The designation of the line numbers is irrelevant really, it’s the usage that matters.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 13, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
+1. Agreed 100%
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
You can like them in that order, just don’t get caught up then in the “it’s a 4th line, it should be gritty” thing. It’s way more important for the lines to have a role that makes sense than it is for them to conform to some standard of what each line ‘should’ be because of the way it is numbered.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 13, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Morning Blueshirts..
I just have a quick question for you all. I am a huge Ranger Fan and I love this site. (Great work by the way fellas) I chip in comments here and there when I think that they may make some sense. But in any case my question is, DO you think we are completely wasting MZA’s talent? I get that he is small, and may not be able to handle top line minutes and also puts him in a tough spot as far as being able to fill a roll on a top two line. But Fourth line minutes for guy of his skill seems like such a waste to me. I don’t know where to put him and apparently either does Torts.
Could he handle first line minutes-No grit on that line.
Can’t break up Pack-Line (IMO not even to put Dubi on line 1)
So i guess his best fir would be third line. But he will not only need someone to create some space for him to maneuver but some for him to dish to that can finish. Don’t get me wrong, I love Prust but he is not a finisher. Could it be Feds? Could Fed-Boyle-Zucc work? I Don’t like breaking up that chemistry either but I think it is the coaches responsibility to get the most out of the team they put on the ice. Could you consider Feds a finisher? Maybe even WW-BB-MZA could work but WW seems to be garbage again. I’’m not a cliff jumper , I know it’s two games in and he is not 100% healthy but I just don’t see ANY fire in him. That line looks really good to me on paper though.
Then to fourth line Your left with Prust,Rupp and someone else. We have two legit first liners and are missing a third. We also have an overload of defensive prospects. Here is where I am asking for your honest opinions. If we could package MZA/WW with some “D” is there a player out there the rangers could target to complete a Solid first line?
Sorry for the rambling, I’m just confused as to whether we are wasting Zucc. and if we weren’t going to use him properly, what are our options for this year. Obviously all moot Next year with Hagelin, Krieder, Borque etc but what about NOW?
Thoughts?
Zuccarello is 24, I think we should have a pretty good projection of where he’s going to fit into our plans by now. We certainly weren’t the only team interested in signing him, and I would like to think that by now we’ve contacted some of those teams to see who might be interested in dealing for him.
Another possibility is that while he might be able to handle more minutes, or excel in different circumstances or systems, the Rangers see his value as his ability to sell merchandise in Europe. When he came up, there was a ridiculous amount of hits from Europe on the Rangers site. Probably lots of jerseys being sold as well. While there might be other options to give us 4 mins a night, their might not be others that can make the Rangers as much money.
Regarding Hagelin, Kreider, Bourque, etc, I wouldn’t go counting our chickens before they hatch. Caught those guys in the season opener, and our best forward is still Kris Newberry. Not saying he will be forever, but just saying if we had to take one of them right now, he’s the best. Ditto Wade Redden on defense, although Parlett did some things that turned heads. Hagelin started OK, but the pro game seemed to wear him down pretty quickly, and by the 3rd period he looked pretty spent. Bourque needs to figure out where he’s going to fit in as a pro, he seems to still be pegging himself for the top 6. I’d like to see him show a bit more willingness to do the dirty work that a bottom 6 roll would require.
The real interesting guy was Audy-Marchachessault. This kid is destined for big things, or he’s going to absolutely DESTROYED by a bunch of AHL lifers. Plays with a bit of an edge, and plays a chippy game, and i’m not sure how some of these guys are going to take to that.
by BuckarooClub on Oct 13, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Zuccarello is 24, I think we should have a pretty good projection of where he’s going to fit into our plans by now
There are plenty of players who don’t establish themselves until they are 25-27. Yes, they should have a better idea than, say, Thomas, but he’s still a 2nd year player with ~45 games of NHL experience, he’s by no means a known commodity.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 13, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
But we should atleast have a plan on where we see him fitting into our team
I think when he came in the projection was for him to be a scorer. Rather then push him into a grinder roll, I think we’d be better served seeing if anyone else thinks he can still cut it as a scorer/playmaker, and look into to moving him. If we still think he has what takes to be top 6 in the NHL, why not let him get more minutes and play in more offensive situations in the AHL, while working on what we want to see? If it was a case where his was just leaning on individual skill in the AHL, I could see it, but he wasn’t really even dominating there last season.
by BuckarooClub on Oct 13, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree to an extent. I don’t think the 3rd line is a ‘grinder’ role these days. I think we’d have a lot of success with Zuccarello-Stepan-? as a 3rd line used as a secondary offensive line (Anisimov’s line being a 2-way line as opposed to offensive).
I think that’s where Zuke fits. Putting him with EC and Wolski is fine too, but they need to not get traditional 4th line minutes. Use them more in the first two periods as an offensive line, splitting time equally with Boyle’s line at ES. Then, in the 3rd period you use one line more than the other based on game conditions.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 13, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I like that a lot.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
One reason why we will see the "Old"Gaborik
He wears number 19 and lines up to his left of him on the face off circle and is getting 6.75 mil over 9 years
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
As much as Im excited about Richards playing with Gabby just like the rest of you guys. I think its entirely bullshit that the reason why Gaborik will produce again has everything to do with Richards. Its all on Gabby, he controls how he plays and right now the first two games he’s looked great. Yeah Richards will help him but its still up to Gaborik. Like Richie said in an interview, “I don’t need to help him, hes been in the league for a while and hes always put up great numbers, without me.” Gaborik will bounce back because he’s going to do it himself not because of number 19 next to him.
by CrazyRangerFan on Oct 13, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I said its "one" reason
not “the” reason, and I agree with you that its on Gabi to put the puck in the net, but Richards will be one of the biggest factors to get him back to his usual numbers. The last couple of seasons he didn’t have that center to get him the puck (except for prospal) now with Richards, who can create space and open lanes, Gaborik needs to get into the open areas and have his stick on the ice at all times
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Oct 13, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I would say there are three factors leading Gabby to hopefully having a better season.
1) Health. As much as it was downplayed, I think we can all agree that he was obviously nagged by injury for the middle months of the season. He was improved by the end of the season and looks to be 100% now.
2) Strength. Several have noted, it looks like Gabby bulked up a bit this summer and got stronger on the puck. This is going to become noticeable as the season wears on.
3) Confidence. Here is where Richards comes into play – partially. The two factors above, BR playmaking, BR opening up the ice and drawing defenders, and just general state of mind are all going to boost Gabby’s confidence.
So in my opinion, having B Rich is big for Gabby but it is only one part of one ingredient to a successful season. The fact that BR is extremely dangerous in his own right, however, is huge.
well yeah Richards is going to help, but its still all on Gabby. And I wasn’t attacking you, just making a statement. Sorry if it came off that way.
by CrazyRangerFan on Oct 13, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought we just needed time to practice?
This is what I don’t get about Torts, he blames the problems in the first game on the guys not having enough time to practice together, then he runs out and shuffles the lines again. There has to start being some accountability with this guy.
uhm
when the team has played more than two games after a hectic travel schedule?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Oct 13, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
You don’t find it odd that he blames the problems on a lack of practice time together, and then goes and shakes everything up? If the problem was the line combos, why didn’t he mention that? Instead he blamed it on travel not allowing enough time to practice together.
by BuckarooClub on Oct 13, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
No I don't find it odd
Coaches try out combinations all the time during practice, especially early in the year
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Oct 13, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
So should we expect worse results Friday night?
Because Torts couldn’t tell us enough that the team needed more practice to win those games in Europe. Now we’re going to send out a lineup of guys who have practiced together even less. If the line combos were the problem that’s fine, change them, and fix it. What makes NO SENSE to me is why you tell us the problem is one thing, and then do something else to fix it.
by BuckarooClub on Oct 13, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Why should the coach tell us anything? He told us that he was still working on the lines and that the team needed to practice together, what do you think they’ve been doing this week? Sitting on their asses watching TV? Torts is practicing the team and working out various 1st line LW options and I expect the team to play better on Friday
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Oct 13, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Why should the coach tell us anything?
Because our tickets, jerseys, and $10 beers pay his salary. If he didn’t want us to know then, he certainly could have told us nothing, but why say one thing and do something else.
by BuckarooClub on Oct 13, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
he’s not saying one thing and doing something else…he’s working on the offense in practice by shuffling the lines how is that so confounding?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Oct 13, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m trying to distract myself from doing a paper that’s due at 6pm
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Oct 13, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s not a troll. I disagree with Buck a shit load but he’s one of the most intelligent hockey fans on here. No doubt about it.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean they are a troll. He makes a good point.
A coach who changes line frequently has no business complaining about and blaming lack of success on lack of chemistry and practice. Think about it.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me. Someone who plays devil’s advocate (on every thread) for the sake of fanning the flame and getting a rise out of people is a troll. That’s what I see. A troll doesn’t have to be unintelligent.
I play devils advocate on a shit load of threads as well. Sometimes I agree with people but not for the reasons they do, and challenging them on it causes good discussion.
Imagine if we just all agreed.
He never just comes on here and disagrees and leaves. He always has facts and always supports his opinions, and is open to discussion just as much as anyone else on this site.
There are only a few people on this site who match Buck’s ability to have a respectful argument.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
We've pretty much got 1 new player on offense
Two if you wanna count Rupp. Torts knew what he had coming into this season all summer. The team is having the problems creating offense and on the PP we’ve had all along. He asks for time so the guys can work together on learning the system he created to answer these problems, and now he’s just shuffling lines, hoping something works.
by BuckarooClub on Oct 13, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Firstly that wallpaper is epic. Second I am firmly in the Pack line camp. Cally and Duby should be together. I’m fine with Step on the first line, Feds and WW as well.
I’m confident in Gaborik, always have been. Sure, he had an off year last year, but he put up 42 his first year here. Richards should help a bunch, and I also think Gabby’s going to be more determined this year because of his own disappointing year last year as well as the increased expectations on the team in general.
I listen to Enter Sandman before taking exams. I wear the exact same jersey every Giants game. The Rangers goal song goes off in my head when I achieve small successes in life.
HEN-RIK
by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Oct 13, 2011 10:44 AM EDT reply actions
There
is no point in discussing line combos any more. Torts will change them every game whether they are working or not. I don’t know what his problem is.
Torts Line Combo Methodology Revealed
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Oct 13, 2011 7:28 PM EDT reply actions
ahh!!!!
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
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