Bantering Points: Rangers Need To Get Out Of Their Slump
by Bryan Winters on Oct 31, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
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- As we posted yesterday, Sean Avery will be placed on re-entry waivers today at noon. He will clear waivers on Tuesday at noon, if he goes unclaimed. Although, every other NHL team has the opportunity to claim Avery off waivers, will anyone put in a claim?
- After the recent struggles, who do you turn to, the players or the coach? Nick over at Rangers Tribune takes a look at what the current problems are within the club.
- Wojtek Wolski had a questionable hit last night, and even received a "hitting to the head" penalty as well. Although, it was reported today that he will not receive a further hearing. Bob McKenzie tweeted yesterday that the hit was ruled as a collision.
- Mike Rupp was held out Sunday's game due to his nagging knee injury. Could his knee injury be worse that it was initially thought? Nick takes a look and wonders if his knee injury can raise some serious concern for the Rangers.
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Any updates
about Staal?….he played for the whale the other night right? he comin back up this week?
Also i think another problem the players are having, is that they are constantly not only swithcing lines, but switching positions. And this happens not only game to game but during the game. AA and Step are two examples of this, going back from center to wing. In the end TOrts needs to figure something out and stick with it for an entire game.
Staal did not play with the whale
And will not be back anytime soon.
Flyers take it up the ass, doo dah, doo dah, Flyers take it up the ass, all lah doo lah day.
by FIRESATHER327 on Oct 31, 2011 7:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Where do people get the idea from that Staal would play for the Whale? Unless I’m completely off here, he’d have to go through waivers to do that.
GET RID OF EC!!!
He can play for the Whale as a conditioning stint without clearing waivers.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Correct.
A conditioning stint has to be voluntary (the player opts for it), he does not have to go through waivers (either way), and it can last for up to two weeks. Any additional time with the AHL affiliate would require that the player go through waivers.
If the Rangers really place Avery on waivers today, I’m not sure that I like the move. I always liked Avery as a player and imo he should have never been sent down but placing him on re-entry waivers is extremely risky. If another team claims him, the Rangers have another million added to the cap.
GET RID OF EC!!!
I agree, it’s just a way of getting the guy out of the organization, if that’s what they want. The issue with Avery the 2nd time around has always been that the refs have nutured him by targeting him. It’s well known that he has to play his game in order to be effective. That’s hard to do when the refs look for any reason to throw you in the box.
I couldn’t disagree more…. there’s no way they would hand cuff the team, cap wise, just to satisfy a personal vendetta, which is exaggerated in the first place.
Its risky, for sure… but I think Erixon was sent down to make room for Avery’s cap. If they’re bringing him, up they intend to at least have him sit in the press box.
just throwing out there. just can’t see Avery and Torts coexisting is all.
by Richter1994 on Oct 31, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If Avery can’t adjust then it is on him. If what you are saying is true, it won’t be long before he is go back to Hartford.
#12 Carl Hagelin
by The Blue Seats on Oct 31, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
it won’t be long before he goes*.
#12 Carl Hagelin
by The Blue Seats on Oct 31, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
bottom line is the Rangers need SOMETHING right now. all they have to is skate like they have done periodically and they’ll be fine. the problem as we all know is that they have not played a 60 minute (or even 50 minute) game yet. when they forecheck like the first period of Thursday’s game then they can dominate. when they don’t they’re a .500 club like they are now. maybe Avery ignites them because he doesn’t care what people think of him based on what he says and does.
If Avery is claimed on waivers i believe the rangers are not liable for any of his salary as it it already split with DAL which means it would still be split with dallas… as they are the original holders of his contract so the rangers would be released of all liabilty for avery’s contract… however this move does screw dallas who was just trying to stay at the cap floor due to issues with their budget… when we dropped avery they had to sign a player to get back to the cap floor and now they will be adding more money by avery coming up…
@clalicata17
The point is moot.
The only reason they had to sign a player was that Avery’s demotion put them below the cap floor. He was still being paid by Dallas regardless. By bringing him up, their cap space goes down by ~2M, but the actual amount of money they’re paying out is unchanged. This would only be an issue if they were at the cap ceiling.
There has been no official word on Avery
Just tweets from Boomer Esiason and Larry Brooks that no one else has corroborated…so pull back the reins a bit in celebrating his “return”
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by Kevin Power on Oct 31, 2011 7:39 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
Avery's return
has been confirmed by the NY Post.
Clearly, he isn’t the answer to all of our problems. I don’t think the fans at MSG chanting his name believe that either. However – we have been flat for these first 9 games and are in desperate need of a spark (especially on the 3rd and 4th lines). Cue Avery.
Like it or not, this team has expectations to live up to this year.
The question I will have
What is the narrative if they go out and kick the pants out of the Sharks tonight? Avery motivated them by being on waivers?
Avery’s presence isn’t going to help Dubinsky and Stepan starting hitting the net, or the players on the PP to move out of the 3 foot circle they stand in for 2 minutes, or Eminger to be more jammy, or a lot of other things that need to improve.
He’s better than Newbury & Rupp. He’s more exciting than, but less offensively proficient than EC. Assuming he clears, he’s going to be playing 6-8 minutes, he’s not going to impact the game that much. Part of me hopes his first game back is a 8-0 loss by the Rangers, just so we can stop with the false narratives. God help us if it’s an 8-0 win, there’ll be no stopping it then.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 9:13 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Doesn't Avery have to wait 24 hours to be recalled?
If they put in the claim today?
I also agree, this team doesn’t need Avery, it needs it forwards to get out of their funk. If Avery’s the spark to do it, then bring him up, have a few good games & send him back down when people are healthy (MZA) or ready to be called up (Hagelin).
Assuming they put him on yesterday or today, he clears tomorrow, correct. He’s not playing tonight. I do support Avery here over Rupp for certain, I always favor actual hockey skills.
Also, based on reports, MZA was who the Whale people recommended for call up, but Tortorella kept him down for the same reason he was sent down, he can’t guarantee him ice time. For that reason, I don’t expect you’ll see MZA, Hagelin, or Bourque unless something happens to someone in our top 9, and even then, Anisimov is currently not in that top 9, so it’s probably even less likely than that.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Rupp is that bad
That being said, he can’t help us if his knee is shot. Who do you consider top 9 on the team at this point? I always thought of Boyle, Prust & Feds as the 4th line. Do you think Torts is over-using this line this season?
What ever happened to Stepan with MZA & WW? I guess they need one of those 3 to play with Gaborik & Richards, why not have it be MZA? I guess it’s just because MZA & Gabby are both RW.
With the way AA, Dubi & Cally are playing, they deserve 3rd line delegation. Pair Avery with Stepan & MZA/WW and you’ve got your 4 lines for now.
I based it on how they’re being used, not what it should be. Obviously I believe AA is a top 9 player. But right now our top 9 is WW, Br, Gab, Dub, Step, Cally, Fed, Boyle, Prust.
Rupp isn’t that bad. Compared to Orr, Brashear, Shelley, Boog (RIP). He’s still not a very talented player, and certainly less talented than Avery.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed here George
I definitely think that Torts might be over-using our “4th” line compared to last season. I think we could have 2 solid defensive lines (AA-Dubi-Cally, Prust-Boyle-Feds) with 2 solid offensive lines (Richards-Gabby-WW, Avery-Stepan-MZA) and then you have Rupp as the 13th forward. In a dream world…
I don’t understand Tort’s hatred for AA
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I don’t think Torts understands that you can’t treat all players the same.
From every interview we have seen with AA, he’s a quiet shy guy that likes to read. You don’t motivate players like that, shit, people like that, by punishing them.
Awful judge of human character.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
ahhhh
The sweet taste of logic
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
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by Kevin Power on Oct 31, 2011 9:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1, this Avery is going to be our savior crap has got to stop, its ridiculous.
by CrazyRangerFan on Oct 31, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
who is actually saying avery is going to be our savior?
The only time I’ve actually heard “savior” and “Avery” in the same sentence is from people saying that he’s not our savior.
What is the narrative if they go out and kick the pants out of the Sharks tonight?
What is the narrative if they don’t? :)
GO SHARKS!
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin (see profile for more info on this quote)
It’s just like in baseball, all we hear about is narratives. It is really annoying.
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I don’t mind narratives. Sports do tell a story, and that story should be told. If Avery comes in an sets the world on fire, with something like 8 points in 5 games, by all means, write the story of how he sparked the team. He’ll deserve it.
What I hate are false narratives. If the Pack Line waking up coincides with Avery hitting the roster, all you’re going to read is how Avery sparked the team. That’s what will irk me.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Shocked
Absolutely shocked Wolski got away with that one.
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Really? If you watch the replay, it was clearly a collision that Wolski followed through on. He wasn’t skating to hit Alfie – Alfie turned unwittingly into his path, and Wolski finished. I saw the elbow, so I get that part of it… but to me it was clearly a collision of paths that ended badly.
Skip to 4:00
Watch the highlight reel of the same type of hits.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockeynightincanada/coachscorner/video/#id=2149217092
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Didn’t see the replay on that link – but I looked it up, and I stand by my statement. Like I said, the elbow was there, no question. But Wolski very clearly turns up ice towards where the puck was just passed, Alfie collides with him and Wolski doesn’t expect the hit until the last second and puts his arm/elbow up. He didn’t skate at Alfie and run him with an elbow. Alfie passes the puck, and turns right into Wolski, just after Wolski stopped and turned up ice. Its a collision, but yes, Wolski did stick his elbow out.
...
I said it was the same type of hits, not the actual Wolski replay.
Its a collision, but yes, Wolski did stick his elbow out.
And it hit Alfredsson in the head, aka a headshot. He got lucky he didn’t get suspended.
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got ya on the link….
The league’s view seemed to be that it was a collision and Wolski was bracing for impact. Alfredsson clearly ran into WW, not the other way around. So basically, the shot to the head resulted from incidental contact. Wolski didn’t target his head, because to target something you have to try to hit it – head and arm were on the same level, he simply lifted his arm up when he realized there was about to be a collision.
Don’t see how the league could suspend him when he wasn’t targeting anything.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. Its an unfortunate play.
How
does everyone feel about the lines staying the same? and Deveaux being called up instead of Hobbit? Would it better serve the team if he is traded? Torts said that he jsut doesnt have room for him..
"You show me a tropical fruit, I'll show you a cocksucker from Guatemala"
by James Caruso Jr. on Oct 31, 2011 10:48 AM EDT reply actions
Deveaux’s a better fit for the 4 minute 4th line role.
As for Zuke, yes, his value might be more in trade right now. They could use him if there was more flexibility in how the 4th line were used (or if it were used as a 3rd instead), but he’s not a fit right now b/c Boyle’s line has earned the ice time.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Biron is getting the call tonight, and Artie is good to go.
by CrazyRangerFan on Oct 31, 2011 11:18 AM EDT reply actions
agreed.
It would be nice to see what he’s really all about, but he just wont get shot here. It’sa shame, the guy was MVP as we all know. the talent is there, it just wont translate into success with NYR
"You show me a tropical fruit, I'll show you a cocksucker from Guatemala"
by James Caruso Jr. on Oct 31, 2011 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
Avery back bring the cup
What a joke bringing up this clown now the players are gonna score and play with energy.Avery going to score 30 goals dubi 40 and so onall because of Avery. Him and richards do not like each other. so why bring him up and do not say fucking enrgy cause thats bullshit.Hes a wast of a spot. And if the rangers happen to win ton ight and avery is the lineup then all the idiots will say see what he did.just more of abad coaching move
Now I’m firmly in the camp of people that don’t think Avery will make any difference to the team, but his problems in Dallas weren’t with Richrads but other players like Modano, Ott and Turco. Check the previous thread on Avery’s recall and you’ll see that him, Richards and Voros all vacationed together this past summer.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Oct 31, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Feds boyle prust is a great 4th line but not a good 3rd line. We are really missing a line and I think we need to get back to basics putting the pack line together and Richards and gaborik back together with wolski and not stepan as he should be centering the third line. Torts line slots machine has really gotten this team crazy. No one knows who they are going to play with on their next shift or even when their next shift will occur. This team needs some stability.
We are going to go to Philadelphia... and we are going to win.- Glen Sather
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Oct 31, 2011 12:51 PM EDT reply actions
Is there a stat
on the Rangers win % with and without Avery?
I remember the amount of Rangers wins rapidly grew when he rejoined the Rangers after his short stint with Dallas.
Rangers record with Avery in the lineup: 129-89-32
An 82 game pace of – 95.12 points
Rangers record without Avery in the lineup: 56-41-14
(includes 08-09 before being brought back from Dallas, and the young 11/12 season)
An 82 game pace of – 93.49 points
According to this article those were the numbers before the start of the season. Doesn’t seem like much of a difference to me.
by Eastern Impact on Oct 31, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m doing the research myself now, and I don’t agree with his numbers. I’ll post mine in a few.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea I cant say if that’s actually accurate or not. It was literally the first thing I found. You’re the numbers guy, so I’ll trust whatever you come up with.
by Eastern Impact on Oct 31, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok…his is the entirety of Avery’s career, which influences things. He also seems to be ignoring how the team did in the same season before Sean was acquired, which matters a bit for the stat.
After he left for Dallas:
The year we claimed him, they were 32-24-8 without Sean, then 11-6-1 with him in the lineup.
Over the last two seasons, they’re 14-3-1 without Avery in the lineup. 68-66-14 with.
So total there on his 2nd tour:
79-72-15 w/ him (85.45 pts per 82)
46-27-9 w/o him (101 pts per 82)
Working on the first tour of duty now.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
On his first tour
Rangers were 50-20-16 with him (110.60 pace), 34-37-7 w/o him (78.84 pace)
So totals for his Rangers’ career:
129-92-31 w/ him (94.04 per 82)
80-64-16 w/o him (90.2 per 82)
His first tour makes a significant impact.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
so...
What do these numbers tell us?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Oct 31, 2011 1:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Depends.
Avery defenders will either:
a) Say “Look, the total says they’re better with him”
b) Say “See, Tortorella hasn’t used him effectively!”
Myself…Avery hit his prime on his first tour and injected energy, talent, and a fair bit of luck (he shot at career levels on his first tour) into a team that didn’t have much of any of it. Now he’s regressed back to his actual talent level on a team that can do a lot of what he does, only better, and combined with his shenanigans, has led to them being more successful w/o him.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
That sounds right
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Oct 31, 2011 2:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The 2nd tour doesn’t include the 3-3-3 this year.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
the 2nd time around the refs nutured him so he’s not nearly effective. the key is to figure out how to play “his way” without getting busted continuously.
His penalty taken rates were actually down last year. He’s gradually drawing less and less, that’s the problem. Others can speculate why that is.
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by George E. Ays on Oct 31, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, George
The numbers say that he was sparkling Renny’s team much more effectively than Tortorella’s.
I wonder if it’s him or Tortorella, but one thing is obvious, Avery does not belong to Tortorella’s team/system, therefore, his move to the big team is obsolete.
George,
Don’t you think that a lot of times these numbers are coincidental either way? I think we have all seen a team that has lost a good player or two to injury only to play better or stay on track (Pittsburgh comes immediately comes to mind). I mean they finished tied for 3rd in the east last year without not only 2 of their best players, but 2 of the best players in the league. I am on the fence when it comes to Avery, I don’t love the guy, or hate him. At this point I don’t see him as a savior, but I think he is an upgrade over Rupp, and to an extent EC. Your thoughts?
Don’t you think that a lot of times these numbers are coincidental either way?
Absolutely, 100% coincidental. But the narrative with those numbers is so strong from his first tour (for obvious reasons), that it was worth it to me to post the numbers for the 2nd tour which show the clear opposite effect, even if the effect itself doesn’t actually exist either way
I don’t love/hate him either. He definitely makes things more entertaining, he’s definitely better than Rupp, and he’s definitely different than EC.
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by George E. Ays on Nov 1, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
It looks like
The numbers without Avery include the games the Rangers played before they acquired him the first time in 2007 (post-lockout)? Otherwise they played less than a full season without him in 2008-09.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Oct 31, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Prediction VS Sharks?
"It's far from done, but we did get something accomplished."-#19 B.Richards
by -19-AgainstAll on Oct 31, 2011 1:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Over under on this team playing a good 30 mins of hockey
I’m hoping for the over, but maybe that’s asking too much…
I was at the Islander/Sharks game on Saturday and the Sharks looked sluggish and got outplayed for the most of the game. But that’s with the Islander work ethic. The Sharks capitalized on every mistake the Islanders made,…which was three. Burns and Boyle are lethal on the powerplay.
Keep in mind the Sharks had just finished playing the night before against the Wings in a tough game. They did play tired and it showed. I would be very surprised if they played tired again tonight.
GO SHARKS!
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin (see profile for more info on this quote)
Another move in the mix?
If Rupp is indeed injured & we called up Deveax, then if Avery clears waivers, we have 14 forwards. Is AA hurting too much to play Thurs? Or is another send-down expected? Trade perhaps?
My by-line
Which I have had since the playoff game in DC when John Tortorella threw the water bottle at the fan – I knew then, as I know now, he is not the answer for this team. I know, it is a pathetic “I told you so” but I am frustrated watching zippy break-out plan, zippy passing in the offensive zone, zippy scoring chances, and the ever collapsing defense that allows so many shots on goal…..why is it disgraced and discarded Rangers look good in ther uniforms…and playing consistent minutes: Grachev in STL, Wiese in VAN…achhh…..my liver!!!!
"Time to bench Tortarella - and by that I mean Tortorella..."
Wolski & EC are going to be banished somewhere.
I would imagine the more we try to showcase them, the more their value is going to decrease. These guys are slugs. Is there anyone who has heard anything legit in the way of a trade? Is there anyway we would pull something off including MZA. I would hate to see the guy go but he just doesn’t fit in here. Unless we get rid of Tarts, MZA is never going to get a fair shake.
I can’t understand why this guy is getting cart blanche. He is NOT a good coach, maybe he was, 10 years ago before the NHL was changed to the “New NHL” His methodology is old school and clearly does not work in today’s NHL. I think he either needs to change his strategy, or hit the bricks, this is clearly a case of “What have you done for me lately”
The boys are struggling, the team isn’t gelling, we have a terrible power play. What else need to be wrong with a team to shake things up? I understand that the PP is controlled by Sullivan but who is Sullivan’s boss. Who does HE report to. Who’s hands is his job in. This is going on at least three years that I can remember?
Anyone?
Tarts
Heh heh…he said, “Tarts” – love it!
"Time to bench Tortarella - and by that I mean Tortorella..."
If you look at the entire league
There is a massive disturbance in the Force. Teams who sucked are doing very well. Panthers…Oilers….. look at the Bruins….last year Stanley Cup champs and this year terrible
….how….why….?
"It's far from done, but we did get something accomplished."-#19 B.Richards
by -19-AgainstAll on Oct 31, 2011 2:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Florida overhauled their roster
But generally, small sample sizes. As I posted in another thread, in 2009-2010, we were 8-3-1 to start the season & we missed the playoffs. Similar to this season, last year we were 5-4-2 & barely squeaked in…we’ve played 11% of the season, not a whole lot.
Agree
Good shit Richter1994…..this panicking stuff is getting really old. We are 500, playing terrible hockey. Its goin UP from here boys. BIG WIN TONIGHT, RANGERS 5 SHARKS 2. Dubi gets 2, Gabby continues with a PP Goal, Cally nothes another, and Stepan works for a garbage goal and Richie grabs 3 assists.
Lets be positive for once, gotta take the good with the bad.
You play Thursday against the Ducks – let it go UP from there instead. ;)
GO SHARKS!
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin (see profile for more info on this quote)
you already won six in a row. don’t be selfish!
:)
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Well said. I think blowing a 3 goal lead was us hotting the bottom. I think they will wake up. We need to think positive though
by Francis028 on Oct 31, 2011 3:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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New Jersey
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Wed 05/23 | 8:00 PM EDT |
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New Jersey
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Fri 05/25 | 8:00 PM EDT |
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New Jersey
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Sun 05/27 | TBA |
Last 5 Games
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New Jersey
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Mon 05/21 | L 1 - 4 |
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New Jersey
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Sat 05/19 | W 3 - 0 |
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New Jersey
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Wed 05/16 | L 2 - 3 |
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New Jersey
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Mon 05/14 | W 3 - 0 |
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Washington
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Sat 05/12 | W 2 - 1 |
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Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- Brodeur, Parise lead Devils to 4-1 win over rattled Rangers; East final tied 2-2
- Brodeur, Parise lead Devils to 4-1 win over rattled Rangers; East final tied 2-2
- Wild prospects lead Saint John past Edmonton
- Labrie stars in Admirals 1-0 overtime win over IceCaps; Norfolk leads series 3-0
- Frattin scores twice, including winner, as Marlies defeat Barons 5-3 in Game 3
