Bobby Ryan
by Moshe52792 on Nov 28, 2011 2:17 AM EST
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PrintThere has been a lot of talk recently about trading Mats Zuccarello. I'd like to elaborate on why we should trade him, and what we should try to trade him for.
Looking at the Rangers roster, it seems that next year the most likely scenario is that Wojtek Wolski, Erik Christensen, and Sean Avery will not be re-signed. Assuming that Mike Rupp will either be sent to the minors or kept as a healthy scratch, the Rangers have a bit of a logjam at forward.
WIth the following definitely sticking around: Gaborik Richards Anisimov Dubinsky Callahan Stepan Boyle Prust, we have 4 starting forward spots left. Assuming that Fedotenko is resigned for a year, we have 3, which can all be taken up by young kids.
Our defense is solid at this point. Staal will return, certainly by next season, and when he does our top 4 will consist of Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, and Sauer. After that we will have plenty of guys that could finish off the bottom pair, with MDZ pretty much locked in and Erixon hopefully being ready, followed by a ton of prospects or vets that could handle 10-15 minutes a night.
My idea would be to look at Bobby Ryan. The Ducks are having an awful season, and something needs to happen. Not saying they would trade Bobby Ryan, but it would be in the Rangers best interest to make a trade for a player of that caliber. Someone with a manageable salary (5.5 mil) that can be a PPG player, or close.
My proposal would be a trade of the likes of Zuccarello, Kreider, and Valentenko. Picks or low level prospects could be added to even out the trade, but it could work well for the Rangers.
Our forwards could consist of: (the lines don't really matter)
Ryan Stepan Gaborik
Dubinsky Richards Callahan
Hagelin Anisimov Thomas
Fedotenko Boyle Prust
Rupp Mitchell
And the defense:
Staal Girardi
McDonagh Sauer
DelZotto Erixon
McIlrath
Goales:
Lundqvist
Biron
IMO, that team can win a cup. Deep all around, four solid lines, 3 solid D pairs, great goaltending.
Thoughts?
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According to Cap Geek: For the 2012-2013 Season
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Bobby Ryan ($5.100m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.200m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.875m) / Christian Thomas ($1.000m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.400m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Brandon Prust ($1.000m)
Michael Rupp ($1.500m) / John Mitchell ($0.800m)
DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.250m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.800m) / Tim Erixon ($1.750m)
Steve Eminger ($0.800m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($1.000m)
BUYOUTS: Chris Drury ($1.666m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,508,334; BONUSES: $1,562,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,791,666
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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Take away Rupp and Feds, replace them with two guys making 750k, take away Drury’s buyout hit, and you have almost exactly 11 mil to resign Anisimov, Stepan, McD, Sauer, and Hagelin.
That should be tight, but it can be done, especially given the extra 800k in cap space if Torts only wants to cary 22 instead of 23, giving us a contender for a few years :)
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i get the point of your idea, but i think it won’t happen. missing kreider on your line combo. also don’t see anisimov playing on a third line in years to come.
but i agree on avery and ec (hopefully) gone next year. and mza is looking like he is on the way out. maybe the try to aquire a scoring left wing at the trade deadline to try to go deep this year.
I involved Kreider in the trade, that’s why he wasn’t there. You gotta give to get.
I really don’t think it will happen either, I just want it to and think it’ll help the team.
And yeah, the lines truly don’t matter. We could run a 3rd line of Hagelin Dubinsky Callahan, and put AA with the more skilled guys.
I think if you can put that many good players under the cap, you can play the top 3 lines 16 minutes a night, the 4th line 12, the top 2 defensive pairs 25 and 20, respectively, and the third pair 15.
It keeps everyone fresh, and that will show especially towards the end of the season when other teams top guys are tired out.
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I'm all for it!
As long as the Ducks are indeed willing to move Ryan at the right price.
I say this even though I still have a soft spot of Zuccarello and I think Kreider is very promising and I want to see what he turns into. If Valentenko is what it takes to get the deal over the hump, then I’m fine with that too. To me, the fact of the matter is that the Rangers have been getting along without Zuccarello in the lineup, I’m excited about enough Ranger prospects that losing Kreider wouldn’t be utterly devastating, and Valentenko may never crack our D lineup if he hasn’t already. Again, to me at least, that is certainly worth a Bobby Ryan.
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Interesting
But I doubt this for a couple of reasons.
1) Ryan committed with Getzlaf and Perry because they both said they would be there. While that doesn’t hold a lot of weight, it is something.
2) Anaheim as a whole is an interesting case. They really aren’t that good 5v5 as they give up more shots than they take – all while experiencing some poor goaltending and only slightly better shooting %. I don’t think they’re as bad as their record indicates – but they’re not much better either.
While its a cool idea I just don’t see it happening.
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Neither do I, I was just playing around with some roster moves instead of studying :)
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i would take your proposed deal even further. make it Wolski, MZA, Krieder, borque/valentekno and a 1st this year. for a player of ryans talent level it would still be a steal. i think the real question would be: would you throw erixon or McIllrath in there instead of borque/valentenk? that would make it more realistic, but perhaps too much for us to swallow.
I’d put Dubinsky in there over Kreider. They’re going to want a top 6 forward in return, and while Wolski might technically be one, they’re going to want a real one.
Not that I want to trade Dubi, but he’d be expendable if you’re bringing in Ryan (not to mention he helps make the money work better)
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Kovalchuk only commanded Bergfors (who was a promising rookie but is bouncing around now), Oduya (vet bottom 4 d-man), a top prospect in Cormier, and a pick.
Dubinsky, MZA, Bourque/Valentenko and a 1st represents more value than that, which makes sense because Ryan isn’t a rental.
Thinking about it more, ANA would want an NHL d-man back, so I think you have to include Sauer in the deal somehow.
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by George E. Ays on Nov 28, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I was thinking Sauer too
He’d fill a whole for them, and open up a spot for us. As much credit as we give our D for “stepping up”, it’s really just a matter of having 4 servicable NHL players back there who can stand in front of Hank while he makes the 30+ saves we need from him for a win.
Like I said below, I think the best way to get one of those guys is to include Gabby in the deal. If Gabby goes, we’re seeing a roughly $2 mil savings. If we took back someone like Lydman or Foster, they should be able to keep the D from missing a step, and IF (HUGE IF) Staal makes it back soon, you’re talking the 5th dman anyway, so it’s not a big deal losing Sauer.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but that doesn’t really improve the team.
Does Gabby and Sauer for Ryan and Lydman make this team better?
I don’t see it.
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In April, you better believe it
I’d say more like
Gabby, Sauer, and one of AA/Step
For
Getzlaf or Perry and Lydman
That’s all NHL guys, ready to come in and fill roles, and improve each team ASAP. We get a another top 6 guy, who we can count on, and who brings in TONS of cup experience.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t need AA/Step to get that done. Gabby/Sauer for Getzlaf/Lydman is fairly close in value, draft picks and/or a prospect or two would get that done.
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by George E. Ays on Nov 28, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I think you’ve gotta give another young roster guy. AA/Step are the best bet if it’s Getzlaf, since he’s a C. If this happens later in the season, maybe they take the pick/prospect but I think at this point, they want some help now.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
That’s too demanding. The gap between Getzlaf and Gaborik is not that great. The value that needs to be made up would be between Lydman and Sauer.
Zuccarello would count as a ‘prospect’ in this picture, but he could certainly be a young NHL roster guy if you so chose.
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by George E. Ays on Nov 28, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll pass 100% on that one.
We’re trading a superstar, a very solid dman, and a 40-50 points player for another superstar and a solid defensemen.
Just a case of the grass being greener IMO.
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We’re trading a very good player (who’s never proven himself on the biggest stage), a solid defenseman (from a group that will soon have more bodies then places to put them), and a POSSIBLE 40-50 point player, who’s destined to be no better then the 3rd line center behind Richards and Getzlaf.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
They gap between Getzlaf and Gaborik is no where close to what you think it is.
I might even rather have Gaborik and Sauer compared to Getzlaf and Lydman, let alone throwing Stepan or AA in there.
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Getzlaf is 3 younger, has a Stanley Cup ring, and is close to a PPG player IN THE PLAYOFFS. Getzlaf has more POINTS in single playoff seasons then Gabby has playoff games played. If we can get a hold of a guy who produces like that, it’s no question that we’ve got to do it.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Trading Gaborik, Stepan, and Sauer for Getzlaf and Lydman does not make this team better, plain and simple.
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Sounds alot like
There are better players on this team then Sean Avery, plain and simple. How’d that work out?
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure, all I know is from day one I’d been advocating Sean on this team, so how is that a rebuttal?
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Just pointing out that seem to be beginning to post in “TortsSpeak”. :)
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 8:10 AM EST up reply actions
Well, that’s due to his sheer amount of dislike for Sean, much like your dislike for Staal.
Same type of analysis :)
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Again, I don't DISLIKE Staal
I just think we can bring back more in return for him then we get having him on the team. Honestly, I feel that way about any of our defensemen. Hank’s our defense, let guys build a name for themselves in front of him, then flip them for other pieces, and find another serviceable body to fill the hole on the blueline. Staal has been out for 20 games… has their been a big change in our defense?
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
We’re allowing more shots in all situations w/o Staal around. Hank’s covering up the difference by playing better than he ever has right now, so the goals against is remaining unchanged.
That’s not going to last forever.
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by George E. Ays on Nov 30, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Kovy was a FA and Ryan is locked up, there’s not an urgency to trade Ryan. I would think the Ducks would want a 55-60 pt player back so Dubi would be a really hard sell, sad to say.
by Richter1994 on Nov 28, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Well, if that’s the case than Dubinsky and Sauer could go, but not much more. Maybe an average prospect of a 3rd round pick or something.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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I’d be fine with that. Dubi, Zucs, and Valentenko. I’d make that trade, and you’re right, the money would work out better.
Just slide Krieder into Dubi’s spot, and we’re good to go.
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That’d be a great trade, just don’t think Aneheim would do it. To qoute Pierre McGuire,“Sheer Larceny”
Yeah, possibly if we add a pick we could make it work.
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Whats gonna happen when McD and Sauer are RFAs and demand a hefty raise? gonna be hard to fit that in under the cap when that happens
by nyrangerfan521 on Nov 28, 2011 10:59 AM EST reply actions
McD yes
Sauer doesn’t have the numbers or the overall performance to demand the kind of serious raise that McDonagh will ask for and receive
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Exactly. Defensive defensemen don’t get paydays unless they have Volchenkov-esque reputations.
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by George E. Ays on Nov 28, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
With Sather’s history, he is known for underpaying RFAs. Sauer will probably get 2.3 mil or so and McD around 2.7, or something around those lines.
I made a comment about the money behind it above, and if we trade Dubinsky instead of Kreider, like George said, that’s an extra 3 mil as well.
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Sauer
Would get that amount on the open market. AS RFA he will much closer to 1.5-1.75. He does not get a lot of points and, as much as I love his solid ‘D’ style, is not a top tier guy.
by Blueshirts Rock on Nov 28, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Fine be me.
There’s enough money for everyone.
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What not try to work something around Gabby?
I don’t see the Ducks completely blowing things up, but I could see them swapping out one of their top 3 for Gabby in an attempt to turn things around. I also think it might be easier to ply away Perry or Getzlaf then Bobby Ryan. Ryan is younger, and his contract is controlled for a longer period then the other two. Getzlaf and Perry are both going to be up for new deals after next season.
You’d certainly have to give up more then Gabby, but if we could ANY of those 3 in return, I think it would be worth it, and beneficial to both teams.
Because Gabby has a higher cap hit, shorter term left on his deal and a NTC. Not mentioning he’s older and more of an injury risk.
Also wouldn’t the point be to improve the overall team? In the short run I don’t see Ryan being a huge improvement over Gabby in terms of production. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to trade a #1 winger for a 1A guy.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Nov 28, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
As I said above, I don’t Ryan is the first of the 3 to go. I think if Anaheim thinks they need a change, Getzlaf or Perry might become available before Bobby Ryan. They’re older, under contract for less time, and both due to hit UFA the same year (the season after next). I would take either of those guys over Gabby because I think they offer us more consistency and experience then Gabby. The Ducks are struggling now, and Gabby is hot. Gabby isn’t necessarily the most consistent player, but in Anaheim, I don’t think he has to be since the Ducks are keeping 2 of their current top 3. Gabby as a third option is terrific.
Gabby’s NTC is the biggest deal breaker, since he’d have to waive it. If something was really happening, I don’t getting him to move to Southern California is gonna be that hard though. As I said above, he’d really be in a better situation there.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Gabby would hit UFA again in 2 years as well, so even if they could do Gabby for Ryan straight up it would present an even bigger headache.
And the Ducks problems aren’t really due to scoring they’re with goaltending and D.
Also, for all the luster of SoCal, there’s just as much incentive to play in a bigger market, a more cosmopolitan city and a much easier travel schedule.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Nov 28, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Gabby would hit UFA again in 2 years as well, so even if they could do Gabby for Ryan straight up it would present an even bigger headache
Gabby is through 2013-2014. Getzlaf/Perry are through 2012-2013. As I’ve said in almost every post, I think Bobby Ryan is the LAST one you’re going to get a hold of. He’s producing at the same clip as the other two, but is locked up MUCH longer, and is younger.
And the Ducks problems aren’t really due to scoring they’re with goaltending and D.
I’ll agree with you somewhat. There was talk of including Sauer as part of a bigger deal, which would help, but I think the Ducks have the players to be better then they are, they just need something to shake things up a bit and get the guys back on track. They’re not making this trade to rebuild, they’re making it shake things up and get back on track.
Also, for all the luster of SoCal, there’s just as much incentive to play in a bigger market, a more cosmopolitan city and a much easier travel schedule
That bigger market, with bigger coverage is the same one that will turn on Gabby the instant he starts his next dry spell or doesn’t show up if we make the playoffs. I don’t think Gabby is a spotlight guy.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
not a spotlight guy?
He wouldn’t have come to NY on the contract he got if he didn’t like the spotlight. Have you ever seen score? For that matter (I don’t remember which game) during the national anthem he’s sitting there winking at the camera and smiling but he’s definitely not a spotlight kind of guy. It’s clear he likes it here and probably wants to stay over almost any other location. As much as I love B. Ryan I’m not trading our star for another star because they will want too much in return. Stick to the homegrown course we have going for us and if an offer falls in our favor, take it.
Plus B. Ryan has his own mental questions, with not wanting to get into the dirty areas all the time, and mainly playing a perimeter game, thats not how we play the game and he wouldn’t fit in here.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 29, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Worth noting that Kypreos is saying that Ryan is in fact being shopped.
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by George E. Ays on Nov 29, 2011 2:59 AM EST up reply actions
“shopped” vs “listening” are 2 different things. GMs always listen. Unless the Ducks get a 55-60 pt player back plus whatever, I can’t see them dealing him. He’s one of the best players in the league. Besides, isn’t Getzlaf more the problem right now?
for what it's worth
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/11/29/ducks_ryan/
The struggling Anaheim Ducks could be looking to make a move.
The Ducks, who have only one win in the month of November, have been shopping forward Bobby Ryan, a NHL executive has told Sportsnet’s Nick Kypreos.
Ryan has been underperforming this season, with only 11 points in 21 games. The three-time 30-goal scorer has just six points and a minus-9 rating in the month of November.
The Ducks haven’t been happy with the team’s offensive production, and head coach Randy Carlyle demoted Ryan to the third line during Monday’s practice.
Ryan, who had been playing with Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry on their first line, skated alongside Niklas Hagman and Ben Maxwell on the third line on Monday.
“I went to that last night in the game a little bit,” Carlyle said of the line on Monday. “We’ve always been trying to formulate a line that can play some minutes in our third slotting. And putting Bobby there should give them an opportunity to be a little bit more on the offensive side.”
The Ducks currently sit in 14th place in the Western Conference.
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I believe it. But the price would be very high.
by Richter1994 on Nov 29, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting. I still don’t see WHY they’d move him, over the other two, but that’s terrific. Glen should be on the phone now!
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 7:36 AM EST up reply actions
I just looked at the Ducks’ player stats and while stats can be deceiving, not in this case. Everyone’s +/- is horrible.
The whole team is a tailspin (PUN INTENDED). It’s just a case of nothing going right out there. I could see why they would try to move one of their “Big 3” for equal return to try to right the ship. I have to spring for Center Ice to get the Rangers games, and the Ducks are/were one of my favorite targets for night games. They’ve got some guys who can play, and are fun to watch. Something’s just GOT to change out there. The quick solution would be to can the coach, but Randy Carlyle has been pretty amazing for them, and I don’t think he’s lost the team. They don’t need to rebuild, they just need to get back on track.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
They weren’t a good possession team last year, but they had an excellent PP to help make up for it. They’re worse this year, and getting below average goaltending on top of it (which explains the +/-)
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by George E. Ays on Nov 29, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
Hiller must be frustrated, big time. He was really good the beginning of the year. Yeah Buck, you can’t fire the whole team so the coach is always the fall guy. Just incredible how bad they are right now.
by Richter1994 on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
If they fire Carlyle, Slats should hire him as a “consultant” at the very least to keep Torts on his toes and have a plan “B” waiting in the wings. The PP success gives us reason enough to bring him on.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
The deal is that by adding one of these players without losing Gabby, this team is propelled into a championship contender, at least for a few years.
Like MFBS said below, Ryan isn’t a huge, if any, improvement over Gabby at this point.
The point of the trade is to take some of the extras we have, that do have value (I said I would be willing to put Dubinsky into the deal), and make a trade for another close to PPG player, to give us that boost over the top.
Kreider, MZA, and Valentenko all have value, and together could get us a strong top 6 forward, while keeping the rest of the team together.
Essentially take our team now and add another 70 point player instead of Mitchell, Hagelin, or Avery. That’s the improvement.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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We’re going to “lose” Gabby this season, weather it’s in a deal, or just when he disapears. I don’t believe that Anaheim is looking to break down and start over. They’ve got a pair of guys who would fit in great in our system in Perry or Getzlaf. Ryan would be AWESOME, but I think he’s the one they are least likely to part with. Their team is struggling, Gabby is playing well, maybe he gets their offense going again. The Ducks don’t want a pile of prospects, they want to get the team they already have back on track. I think the Ducks and Rangers have the right pieces to put together a mutually beneficial deal, I just think both teams are looking to deal for right now, not 4 years from now.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Gabby isn’t going anywhere Buck, there is no reason you should expect Gaborik to stop doing what he’s doing now. Last season was the exception not the rule. Gaborik will be our leading scorer at the end of the year and he will play a huge part in what this team does the last 3 quarters of the season.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 28, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
What about '09-'10?
He flew out the gate, and then pretty much disapeared. Padded his stats with some goals against the Isles in March, and that was about it. The guy isn’t reliable, and he can’t really create his own goal.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
While his points through 20 games were the same last year, he only had scored in 5 games compared to 8 right now. Those two hat tricks padded his stats. He only scored in 14-15 games last year and I just do not see that happening this year. I also disagree that he doesn’t create his own goals. In 2009-2010 he created 42 on his own without a notable setup man. It is the reason that he an BR do not have the great chemistry we wanted, both like to hold the puck and make the play.
17 points in the final 16 games of that year says otherwise.
And a guy on the cusp of 300 career goals and 7th among active players in goals per game can probably score some goals on his own.
Just because you don’t like the guy doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Nov 28, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s his game log from the 2009-2010 season.
9 of the 17 points he scored in those 16 games came in 3 point showings against the Isles, Blues, and Kovalchuck-less Thrashers. He managed 2 points in the second to last game against the Flyers, before staying off the board in game 82, with the season on the line. He didn’t do ANYTHING against playoff teams after the Olympic break.
Just because you don’t like the guy doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player.
I don’t know where I ever said I “Don’t like the guy”, I never even said he wasn’t a good player. I just don’t think he produces consistently, and I don’t see him as a guy who will elevate his game to get us a cup.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
He was also playing without any form of a playmaker (other than Prospal). You may deny it but you seem to lock into a notion of dealing a certain player but truth be told none of us know what goes into these things. Don’t give me those game logs until you show me ever comparative player to Gabby and prove to me that he is in fact just “killing the bottom-feeders”
Ryan Kesler killed bottom feeders last year. Something like 7 of his 41 goals were against teams that made the playoffs.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Nov 29, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Thank you. We love the look of those high numbers but sometimes it’s about what you don’t see or you look past that’s the most important aspect. Gabby isn’t Steve Yzerman but damnit if he doesn’t backcheck just a tiny bit lol
Kesler got his praise for his 2 way play
I don’t see Kesler as the guy you’re going to BUILD a winning team around, or expect to put everyone on his shoulders when they need a goal. That’s the Sedin’s. Kesler is a very good player, and could be beneficial to a lot of teams, but I don’t think that putting Ryan Kesler in your lineup makes your team better immediatly.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
How about we just start with 3 guys in Anaheim
If you want to dig up every game chart you can, but I’d say if you’re scoring in April and May, you were probably scoring in March too, so playoff numbers might be easier to look at,
Bobby Ryan 19 playoff games 8 G’s 11P’s
Corey Perry 54 playoff games 18 G’s 42 P’s
Ryan Getzlaf 62 playoff games 18G’s 53 P’s
Marian Gaborik 16 playoff games 4 G’s 7 P’s
I guess you could say his numbers are pretty close to Ryan’s, but it doesn’t help that Ryan is 8 years younger then him. The real thing is that Gabby is kind of one dimensional. He’s fast, and he can shoot the puck. We keep talking about him needing a playmaker, but really the problem is, he’s not a playmaker on his own. These guys can dangle, or go through you to get the puck where they need it to score. That’s the big difference.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose
but we’re talking about two different systems. They are a highly offensive team that has very little defensive upside, they basically rely on their top line to produce and hope they can outscore the opponent. Gaborik is an elite player whether you believe it or not, he back checks and plays some defense and I honestly believe he’s a great piece to this team.
Buck this is becoming the same as your dislike for Staal, your saying this guy isn’t going to be good in the future with no grounds to say that. The history is more in favor of Gabby keeping up the pace he is on now, rather than dropping off. We are not going to have a perfect player, there aren’t any in the league except for maybe Crosby. Gaborik is doing what he’s been asked to do, I don’t know why you want to get rid of him, its honestly dumbfounded to me. Why can’t you just be happy with the guys you have? We have a great team here in front of us, and you want to trade away our best players just because of wild speculation that they are going to drop off, if thats your logic, you can say that about every single player in the league.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 28, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Bored?
i Havent really noticed he was gone.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Really, with the mass amounts of chances against, and the struggling we have seen with MDZ, and the less than average play by Eminger and Woywitka.
If you honestly say you haven’t noticed, you’re either being extremely biased or you “watch” the games with your eyes closed.
C’mon Buck. Discussion and disagreement is one thing, but you just sound silly saying that.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Are we getting blown out in games? Our problem is the same things it’s always been, the inability to create any offense, to play consistent hockey, and convert on the PP. Hank will stop most of what he sees, the “shutdown defense” isn’t what we need, we need an offense that can put pucks in the net, and a couple of defensemen who can hold the zone and start the break out.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not talking about trading him away for picks, or dumping his salary. The guys mentioned in the trade for him are equally good, if not BETTER. Gabby is a great player, but he’s not the big game guy, with the playoff experience either of these guys would give us.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
How do you know Gabby is not the big game guy? Because he’s seen limited playoff time with fringe playoff teams? Your basically knocking the guy because he didn’t single handedly lift us over the Caps last year with a fringe playoff team, you could say the same for Hank, do you want to trade him too? It makes no sense, that trade doesn’t make us better and in fact it actually makes us worse since its going to take time for Getzlaf to get used to the system and torts. Also how do you know Getzlaf is going to have the same success under torts as he did in ANA? Its a useless risky gamble that doesn’t even make us a better team if it works out. It makes zero sense, I dont understand why you can’t be content with the players we have here and see if they can make a playoff run.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 28, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with most of what you said but you cannot say that about Hank. He stopped literally ever shot that he could have in the last two series against the Caps, plus he proved himself in the Olympics as well. If you don’t think he has proven himself as a big game player you haven’t watch him play in big games.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Nov 28, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
lol, you miss understood me. That was just an example to make a point. I love Hank and totally believe he is a big game player because of what he’s done for this organization and Sweden in the Olympics. Hank is probably the best goalie in the world right now, and Im being objective about that.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 29, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
Buck tries to play the devil’s advocate, which I admire, but he takes it too far sometimes, and right now he just sounds foolish.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Hank has shown time and time again that he’s going to answer the bell everytime it rings. I don’t see Gabby the same way. I think Gabby’s “big games” tend to come against weak opponents and in the early season. When Gabby gets to a point where he’s an unstoppable force AFTER the All Star break, it would be easier to feel comfortable with the idea that the only thing keeping him from playoff success is the OTHER guys on the team.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 7:34 AM EST up reply actions
Let’s say hypothetically we trade Gaborik straight up for Getzlaf. You sure you want that? Getzlaf has been playing on a line with PPG players, both at EV and PP. I also haven’t seen any Anaheim games so I’m biased but we don’t play that kind of offensive game, we’re quite the opposite. Gaborik may not be a backchecking machine but I’d certainly take him over Kovalchuk and a lot of the other floaters out there, don’t just assume because they want to move a player and he puts up good numbers he’s going to magically gel with our basic, dump and chase type of offense. In fact if I was a betting man I’d say he fails in our system.
Also Gaborik backchecks pretty well for a supposedly “soft, skilled, euro” player. Hes always backchecked, he had to under Lemaire in Minny, and he’s done it for us. I can count numerous times this year where he has made key defensive plays to stop a scoring chance against this year.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 29, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly (again)
He was taught to play defense first under Lemaire. I just don’t get how he’s off to a great start, he looks stronger and healthier than any previous year, but we still want to trade him for a guy who’s numbers are a result of his the team he plays on & his specific style of play
Does the way we "play" win?
Getzlaf is responsible on both ends of the puck, but we need to be more concerned about how to get an offense that score enough to win, then having 12 interchangeable forwards who can back check hard enough to lock up the bottom 2 seeds and get knocked out in the first round.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
If you noticed this year buck we are scoring goals, and a lot more than last season. We are winning games with 4, 5, and 6 goals scored. And at least more of the 4 and 5’s than we saw last season. So if your talking about scoring, (By the way Gaborik is a premier goal scorer) the problem your trying to fix isn’t even a problem to begin with in the first place.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 29, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough but we at least have to give him a chance to show he can be that guy, which I think he can be.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 29, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Not saying I'd do this ...
but for discussion sake would you deal Staal and Kreider for Ryan? Again, like posted, ANA would want goal scoring, but a top tier D-man like Staal (albiet now with concussion) might look appealing?
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
I think for Anaheim, well, they don’t have a ton of young offensive players in the system, so the future up front is RPG. Would really need to knock their socks off.
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by red army line on Nov 28, 2011 2:13 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think the deal you listed would work. In all honesty, if Glen actually tried to go this route, Dubinsky would 100% be involved in the trade. IMO there is no way around that. Whether or not Anaheim would take him is another story. I like Dubinsky but I don’t think he can produce at the level that this team needs or expects him to.
Dubinsky, Zuccarello (He’s gone anyway), Valentenko and maybe a 1st/2nd pick for Ryan and Foster. That would make more sense. I don’t think Ryan will be traded, but if he is, a proposal like this might get it done.
Only a few players are off limits. Those are Lundqvist, Callahan, McDonagh, Stepan, Girardi (Can’t trade the best D-Man on the team) and Richards (Because we wouldn’t be able to trade him).. Staal would be on that list but with the recent injury problems, he’s not. Everyone else is on the table.
Also, I disagree with some of those players that you think are “definitely sticking around”… Boyle has not played his best so far. He’s had some good games recently but he needs to play at the level he did last season. He hasn’t yet. He won’t stick around unless he picks up his play. Like I said, he’s been playing better lately so we’ll see if it continues. And Fedotenko. I like him, but again, he’s been inconsistent in his play, and nowhere near the level that he played at last season. We have some young kids who are playing well, and Feds will be gone if he continues with the inconsistent play. As of right now, Hagelin and Mitchell should temporarily be added to that list. You included him in the trade, but Kreider will most likely be on that list as well.
twitter.com/NYRangers365
Anaheim needs depth. Going out and getting Hagman showed they need it; as living on one scoring line and two good D showed. Clearly, something has to give out there, or Randy Carlyle will be the next to go.
So, you could look for this:
Zuccarello, Wolski, Rupp, Eminger, Christensen and a 1st for Ryan and Foster.
The buzz has been that Zucc and Wolski caught the eye of their GM early in the preseason. Christensen would give them stability on faceoffs on the second or third line. Rupp would give them either a fourth line center or winger to add size to Parros, and not leave it all up to him to when the first line isn’t out on ice. Eminger would give them a depth defenseman.
The new Ranger lines could look this way:
Ryan-Richards-Gaborik Staal-Girardi
Stepan-Anisimov-Callahan Del Zotto-McDonagh
Hagelin-Dubinsky-Fedetenko Stralman-Sauer
Avery-Boyle-Prust
((Mitchell, Deveaux)
Lundquist-Biron
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
"I'm a doctor, not a barber, Jim." Dr. McCoy to Captain Kirk
"Thanks, Chris. Enjoy your retirement."
Christensen and Eminger probably aren't going to get much interest from the Ducks
We claimed EC when they waived him, and the sent us Eminger for Voros.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 28, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
In this trade, we’re basically trading our scraps and a 1st round pick. That doesn’t work. They may need depth but they also would want good players in return. Or at least some promising talent. You can say Zuccarello is a young prospect but I’m guessing their GM knows the situation with him. If Dubinsky isn’t involved, then we’ll probably have to give up at least two of the following players, Hagelin, Kreider, Erixon, McIlrath, Stepan, Anisimov, Sauer..
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by NYRangerFan718 on Nov 28, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Oh and you’ll have to add in Zuccarello and 1st/2nd round pickin addition to what I stated above (2 of those players from that list). I don’t think it will happen.
twitter.com/NYRangers365
by NYRangerFan718 on Nov 28, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
if sather can pull off a zuccarello/wolski/rupp/eminger/christensen/1st rounder for ryan he's GM of the decade
that’s a pile of crap for a top line 30+ goal scorer not even close to his prime
that’s worse than pederson for neely or hodge for middleton
unfortunately i don’t think sather has enough mind tricks to pull that off, something like dubinsky/kreider/valentenko and a pick (not a first) is more likely
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
and even then i don't see the ducks dealing ryan for anybody no matter how bad a start they're off to
i’d do the dubi/kreider deal in a heartbeat, too, if the ducks have a brain fart and make that offer
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Everybody looking at "a 30-goal scorer"
ought to shut up, and pay close attention to the following:
The current Ducks team isn’t good, and it needs the right parts. The kids playing aren’t very good, and Cogliano might as well be sent down. That team needs depth on its back lines, and one Top-6, not six.
Everyone jumping on “a 30-goal scorer” just pump your brakes. The Rangers have a full compliment on all four lines, and some potential moves. If we’re gonna speculate, let our specs be our own, and do not infringe on each other.
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
"I'm a doctor, not a barber, Jim." Dr. McCoy to Captain Kirk
"Thanks, Chris. Enjoy your retirement."
by Danz10 on Nov 28, 2011 8:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
hypothesizing
IF sather could do dubi/mza/valentenko for ryan (big if, i know)
and your top two lines become
stepan-anismov-gaborik
richards-ryan-callahan
would you be okay with a deal for the 30 goal guy?
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
I would do that trade.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Respectfully...
I would do that deal.
Would you consider, Boyle/Zucc/Erixon/1st (2013) for him as well?
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
"I'm a doctor, not a barber, Jim." Dr. McCoy to Captain Kirk
"Thanks, Chris. Enjoy your retirement."
While It's A Nice Idea
I don’t see it happening. Also including Gaborik in the deal because the whole idea of this trade is to gain someone in the top 6, not lose anyone.
A line of Ryan-Stepan-Gaborik would be extremely lethal.
Also, the Ducks would be forced basically to take Wolski or someone to help clear some cap space on our end.
This is the kind of trade that either really works or blows up in your face and sets your franchise back a few years.
We are going to go to Philadelphia... and we are going to win.- Glen Sather
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Nov 28, 2011 4:58 PM EST reply actions
Good Post
But I think we should trade Zuccs for maybe a draft pick or another prospect. Save the money for a guy like Parise? Possible free agent? If we don’t get him then, oh well. We have very good prospects coming up and it ain’t always bad to have extra cap space.
I’m just worried about how much Parise is going to command.
Ryan is making 5.5, so that might be manageable.
Who knows how much Parise will get in the open market.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Brian Burke would pay the house for Parise.
I mean he wanted to go over the cap limit for richards, so i could only imagine what’d he do for parise.
We are going to go to Philadelphia... and we are going to win.- Glen Sather
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Nov 28, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Well, depends on whether $1.5 million is “too much more.” We know he can score, we know he’s a defensive stud, and he brings some intangibles, never taking a shift off, etc.
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by red army line on Nov 28, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
NYP_Brooksie Larry Brooks
Source: Rangers have had preliminary talks with Anaheim about Bobby Ryan, level of interest, ability to make deal unclear…
NYP_Brooksie Larry Brooks
Re Rangers and Ryan: could be proverbial “tire-kicking,” could be more, but NYR wouldn’t deal Stepan or McDonagh, among those off
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so then
dubi has to be involved to offset the money
kreider would be requested….or thomas
they’ll probably ask for another prospect or pick as well, easily
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
If your name isn't Hank or Brad, you should be in the conversation
In the very least on a 1 for 1 level. Also, the monkey wrench that could get thrown here, and I’ve been thinking about every since they said Ryan was available …. How bad would the Devils LOVE to land a local boy like that? They lost alot of their Jersey support when the fans didn’t want to go into Newark, this would seem like a big chance to bring them back. With Parise’s future unclear past this season, does he get offered?
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
so he read my post on BSB?
:)
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
one other thought
maybe this is part of some plot to put dubi & richards back in the same division
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Since we're talking conspiracy theories
Tell me that everyone’s favorite pizza delivery boy didn’t just hit the lotto for the SECOND time
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Pass
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Just curious, because I do not know – how much of his success the last 3 seasons do you think are a result of his linemates? How much stand alone talent does he have if you take him away from that? Will he score 30 with us? I am not trying to downplay his ability, I honestly want to know because I don’t have the answers.
As I said above, I watch quite a few ducks games, because of their late starts, and Ryan, Getzlaf and Perry are big part of why I pick them. They are guys that are really fun to watch. They play well together, but also have enough individual skill to make them dangerous when they have the puck. Anyone of them can make something happen.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
If you look at that link,it looks like they all are worse without the others, but Ryan less so than Perry/Getzlaf. That leads me to believe that Ryan is the play driver on that line.
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by George E. Ays on Nov 29, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
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by red army line on Nov 29, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Pass
My thoughts are similar to Kevin Power’s thoughts on this.
I really, really like this team. I don’t want to give up a shit ton of prospects to get an excellent young player right now. Dubinsky is in a slump, if and when he gets his head out of his ass the team that much stronger. The same is true of when we get Staal back in the lineup. I also think that we shouldn’t move Kreider unless we are getting something extraordinary in return.
Kreider is one of the most promising players we have had in the pipeline in YEARS. Too often in the past we have had high hopes about a guy and have seen him turn out to be a big, runny dump. Now we have a guy that is the envy of other scouts and looks like he is a top 6 scoring forward with good size and a nose for the net.
Bobby Ryan is exceptional. He is still very young (24) and has an undeniable ability to put pucks in the net. He is also a versatile forward, capable of playing center or either wing if my memory serves me correctly… still, I don’t want to move a handful of treasured assets to land this fish. I want to see what our kids can do… the guy does have some sick hands though.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
and we shouldn’t even consider the idea of possibly thinking about thinking about trading Gaborik for Bobby Ryan
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
We should also not be thinking about considering about mulling over a possible trade for maybe getting Cam Fowler for MDZ.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
yeah, that too
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Cam Fowler for Del Zotto is crazy one-sided. Fowler, Selanne and Perry are arguably the only untouchables in the organization.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Was a joke :)
Hence the fifteen circumstantial words, i.e. “maybe”, “possibly” ,etc.
The joke here is that so many people regret not getting Fowler and drafting McIlrath instead. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
I wouldn’t do that either.
But with the trade I proposed, or the offer of Dubi-MZA-Tenko doesn’t really lose much for us.
MZA and VTank aren’t going to play for us, and we are giving us Dubi and getting Ryan back.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
+1, say no to B. Ryan!!! also everyone seems to be on the Trade Dubinsky band wagon right now, just because he’s in a slump? get over it players have slumps he’ll get out of it soon enough.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 29, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
I’m as big a supporter of Dubi as any, but Ryan is the better version of him. I wouldn’t trade Dubinsky unless a better version is the return, and in this case it is.
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by George E. Ays on Nov 29, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan is a better version of ANYONE we send
I’d say that Dubi might be one of our better compliments to him though. Dubi can play the physical game that Ryan’s line play now in Anaheim.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
So you would send Richards over for Ryan? straight up?
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 29, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
No, my bad. I don’t think he gives us more then BR. Richards is a top 6 guy who will consistently drive his own line and produce when it counts.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
He’s not better than Gaborik
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
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"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Let him have his moment :)
He’s not better than BR either.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
This kid has been in the league 3 years and put together 3 complete seasons. Gabby hasn’t put together 1 complete season since he’s been IN NEW YORK. Gabby can skate fast but he avoids contact, can’t go through/around a defenseman, and needs to spoon fed his scoring chances for the most part.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
Please look at the offensive talent that Ryan has surrounding him and look at the talent Gaborik has surrounding him during his time NY (before this year).
It isn’t even close.
Again, you don’t score nearly 300 goals in the NHL (while spending most of your career on teams with medicore supporting casts) without being able to make your own chances.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Nov 30, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
You seem to be a baseball guy, and I know I’ve used this analogy before, but I see Gabby as being alot like A-Rod. Nice guy, sweet swing, good on both sides of the ball, but the monster shots come alot more frequently when the game is in hand one way or another.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
The guy had a hand in 40% of the Rangers goals in 09-10. In about a quarter of the season (20 games) he scored at least 1/3 of the team’s total output for that game, which includes 14 games where he scored either half or all of the team’s goals.
Even if he tailed off post Olympics, where if you remember he suffered a nasty laceration leading up to the break, he did all you could ask of one player to pull more than his fair share of weight.
He had a bad year last year, I’m not going to argue that, but in his entire body of work as a Ranger, he’s been their “go to guy” and has delivered a lot.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Nov 30, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
so,
you think gaborik is the best player ever?
When did A-Rod become better than Ruth?
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by George E. Ays on Dec 1, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
whatever, not
even going to begin to try to start this argument. Here, let me rephrase…
So are you saying Gaborik is one of the undisputed best 10 position players in the history of the sport?
the point was that comparing Gabs to A-Rod in attempt
at criticism, is just really laughable.
The point was if it’s going to take 13 seasons as a pro for Gabby to show that he can produce when it counts, we should look elsewhere.
To be clear, I'm not trying to criticize A-Rod or Gabby for what they've accomplished
Just saying to need to have the right tool for the job. Pre 2009 I defended A-Rod as being a good fit for a Yankees team who HAD a bunch of guys that would rise to the occassion when they needed it already. A-Rod’s off night/early season heroics helped pick up the slack for a group of vets who didn’t always turn it on in the opening months of the season, knowing they could pull it together when they had to.
By the same token, when we were discussing the Ryan for Gabby swap, I was saying the Ducks could be a nice destination BECAUSE Gabby wouldn’t be the go to guy, he’d have Getzlaf and Perry to take that heat, and I think Gabby plays better with the pressure off.
Here’s the flaw with your entire argument Buck.
You claim that we can’t lean on Gaborik to be the guy, especially in the playoffs. Okay, fine. But your plan to solve this is to trade for Bobby Ryan. WHat makes you believe Bobby Ryan can be a guy we can depend on?
His whole career he has played third, arguably fourth fiddle behind Getzlaf, Perry, and Selanne.
What in the world makes you think he could be the guy to lead the team but Gabby can’t.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Too be clear
I look at Gabby as a ticking time bomb. Everything he’s done up to this point in his career says he’s not going to be the same player down the stretch. If you can point me to something that says otherwise I’m all ears. There’s certainly the possibility that everything changes inside him too, that would be great, but it also seems like a bit of a long shot.
Ryan has played well on a line with two all star, MVP caliber players.
A cone could do that.
Not saying Ryan isn’t a great player, just that he has never been the guy and produced doing so.
You are assuming he will produce over here, and saying Gaborik can’t be the guy because history dictates, yet ignore the fact that Ryan has never led a team at the professional level.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
but what history dictates that Gaby can't lead a team?
Didn’t he lead the Wild into the playoffs in 06-07 i think it was? What’s stopping him from doing the same for us?
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Er...
3 playoff trips, 34 games, 24 points.
The 2002-03 season wasn’t the one cancelled, the stats there still count.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 2, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
whoops..included the Rangers stats. Make that 29 games, 22 points.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 2, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
My bad
Although, there is still a HUGE span of big game relevance that goes back to a season when Al McInnis was an All Star.
If Gabby keeps this up through the season, that’s great, I’m just not expecting him to.
why not?
what evidence is there that he can’t produce?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
That he can't PRODUCE?
None
That he shrinks up, and doesn’t produce when we need it?
His last two seasons here.
by BuckarooClub on Dec 3, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
09: 42-44-86 pts with no offensive help
10: 22-26-48 pts an off year with signs that it was just that
Why should we believe that he can’t produce?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Not to mention he played 62 games last year and was banged up for most of the year.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Kevin seems hooked on changing the arguement to “Can he produce”, when really, the discussion was, “Can Gabby produce late season/playoffs”.
As I said before above, it seems that Gabby just tends to disapear at times, more so in big games, and pads his numbers with alot of production early and in easy situations (weak teams/big wins).
Maybe I’m crazy but I even recall this coming up in the game threads before.
IMO, I haven’t seen anything from Gabby to show me he’s the guy who will step and get it done when we need him, or even that his production will continue past the All Star break, and into the spring, when the games really start to count. If it does, thats TERRIFIC, but I don’t think it’s wrong to not expect that to happen based on what we’ve seen from him over his career.
Gabby can skate fast but he avoids contact, can’t go through/around a defenseman, and needs to spoon fed his scoring chances for the most part
Have you missed his entire season up to this point?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Nov 30, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also, who cares if he needs a step-up guy?
We have one, actually 2 or 3 for him.
We need finishers, and if Gaborik is being set up, and is finishing regularly, which he is, he’s worth more than Ryan.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
also
If we trade Gaby for Ryan, how are we any better? We still need one more top line scorer and trading Gaby for one is really, really stupid
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Nov 30, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. We become worse.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Not to mention the little issue of Gaborik and Richards having NTC/NMC.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
they have what now?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Non Torture and Non Masochism Clauses
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Nov 30, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Just a little thing that doesn’t permit them to be moved without their consent (or permit them to be moved under any circumstance) that people always forget about.
Not like it is important or anything.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
As I said above, I meant to exclude Richards, and further up I acknowledged Gabby’s NTC as one of the biggest problems with making the deal around him. I actually think just sitting down with Gabby and letting him know his name came up, and asking if he’d be agreeable to the move could be a good measuring stick.
Slats sits Gabby down, tells him the reason they’d move him is cocerns that he might not be a big game player. Remind Gabby that the ball is in his court, they can’t move him without his permission. Also, remind him that NY isn’t a very forgiving city, and if he hits the wall the way he has in past seasons, it might not be long before the Rosival Choir starts singing Gabby’s song in March. If he believes in himself, and knows he can do this, the Rangers would love to have him along for the cup ride, but if he doesn’t think he can live up to the pressure, cashing the last of his checks on the beach and letting Perry and Getzlaf take the postseason pressure might be something for him to consider.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
While that might work for some players, it might make other’s collapse.
Your idea goes one of two ways. Either Gaborik goes ape-shit and starts puting up over a PPG because he wants to stay, or he gives up and shits the bed.
If the first one happens, we shouldn’t trade him. If the second one does, he’ll lose a lot of value.
You don’t tell a guy who scored like 40% of your teams goals two years ago, and who is leading the team in points this year and dominating in scoring chances that we’re not sure he can handle the pressure. If you tell that to him, WTF do you say to the rest of the team?
I’m sure they’ll love management after that one. These players are people Buck, they have emotions. You can’t fuck with them like that.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
by Moshe52792 on Nov 30, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're not messing with him, you're giving him a way out.
The last time he lead the team in points, we missed the playoffs. You can’t get too hung up over the guy. We’re giving him options, he can graciously slip out of town, or he can stick it out, knowing that a weak late season/postseason won’t be tolerated.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Why would he need a way out? He has been our best player all year, and was our best player two years ago.
If we can’t tolerate him, who can we tolerate?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Trading Gabby for Ryan is about getting us closer to a cup
They don’t have the playoffs in the first 3 months of the season, and the bottom 4 teams in the league won’t be involved either, so that sorta dries up Gabby’s wheel house. Even if you want to believe that Gabby is ready to be a late season factor, we CERTAINLY don’t LOSE anything replacing Gabby with Ryan, who is also 6 years younger, 2 mil cheaper, locked up 2 years longer, and has no movement restrictions.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
and yet we’re still short ONE OTHER SCORER…you don’t make a lateral move like that
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
How is it lateral, when you’re getting younger, cheaper, and more playoff experience? You can take the extra $2.5 mil and look to bring in more help, you’ve also got Ryan alot longer, since we are “building for the future”. Don’t see how you PASS on that deal.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
because we need TWO top scorers on a top line…we trade to get another its lateral
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
He is kind of right though…assuming they’re equivalent players (they’re not, but go with it for now) then advantage Ryan because he’s younger and cheaper.
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by red army line on Nov 30, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Just out of curosity, are you saying Ryan or Gabby is the better player?
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think Gaborik is the better player, Ryan the better asset.
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by red army line on Dec 1, 2011 7:21 AM EST up reply actions
and you don’t trade a better player for a better asset, you trade other assets to get the better player help (in simple terms you don’t trade Gaby for Ryan)
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Depends on what you want to do. In a vacuum, you trade for better assets because, well, they have more value (youth, good contract, cap space, etc). But when you feel you’re pretty close to winning a championship, you can trade for better players, instead (like Boston for Kaberle), to improve your chances of winning that season.
The tricky part is judging whether your assets would have helped you down the line so much that your expected championship total over the next, say, 20 years, increases with the better player trade as opposed to simply keeping the asset.
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by red army line on Dec 1, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair point.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
When you say better player, do you think Gabby gives a team the better chance to win when it counts?
My whole criticism of Gabby is I don’t think he’s a good player as much when it matters as his numbers show over the course of a season.
The criticism on Ryan is that he needs Getzlaf & Perry. I don’t necessarily believe that, but even it was a case of Ryan needing another player to succeed, in a worst case scenerio, we have a younger, healthier, cheaper, version of Gaborik.
I think what is rubbing people the wrong way is not the Ryan for Gaborik thing, but the fact that you would be willing to throw Sauer and Anisimov in there for Lydman.
It’s silly.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
by Moshe52792 on Dec 1, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t know how much I’ve voiced it over here, but I’m not a believer in playoff choking (I think Hawerchuk put it best, something like "the guys have been through clutch situations at every level and many at an international level. They can handle pressure pretty well). At the very least, I think it’s a short term thing that’s easy to snap out of (see Hossa, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, all of whom weren’t good their first few playoffs).
So yeah, I think Gaborik gives a team a better chance to win.
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by red army line on Dec 1, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Right on
My knock on the Hawerchuk quote applying to Gabby is that the only way he’s been through “clutch situations” is that he wore a uniform for a team that was in those situations.
He didn’t score much against any playoff teams late season for us in his first season, and the team was fighting for a playoff spot right to game 82. Last season pretty much more of the same, he gets goals in bunches against the bottom of the league. He starts hot, then has nothing when the REAL season begins after the All Star Break.
IIRC he had tons of scoring chances last playoffs, but just wasn’t scoring, right?
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by red army line on Dec 2, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Correct. He was by far and away the most active forward against Washington.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 2, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but he also advocated originally for putting Stepan or Anisimov in that deal.
That trade makes the team worse.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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dont see why you capitalized
pass, but, i digress
The whole point about trading for Ryan is aquiring another top 6 forward with scoring ability, not trading one for another.
It doesn’t matter if one is marginally better than the other, and if you’d like to get in that argument fine, go compare numbers and quality of teammates. But it doesn’t matter if one is a little better than the other, it certainly doesn’t make the team better, especially when you break apart our best line.
That accomplishes nothing.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
The whole point of EVERYTHING this team does should be wining a Stanley Cup.
If you can make a move that makes your team better, and your teams chances better, why not?
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, the fact is though that the trade you offered:
Gaborik AA/Step and Sauer for Ryan and Lydman does not make this team better.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Did you watch last night?
Everyone one on one was a wrist shot from outside the circles?
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Did you see the one on three that drew a penalty? Making moves around all four penalty killers down low to open up Callahan for a goal? Crashing the net and using his hand-eye coordination to score his own goal
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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The Cally goal, he didn’t move around anyone, he tried to go to the outside, Kunitz got caught flat footed on the pass, and Gabby had room to come back in. That “hand eye coordination” needed 3 swings to make contact on his own goal.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
now that’s just wrong
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
You’re blind.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Kunitz was leaning, went for the pass, and is flat footed, and no longer between Gabby and the net when Gabby gets the puck. There is no one for gabby to put a “move” on .
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
The man picked up the puck, sped around #14, and cut inside when #5 went down to block his path. Then he made a perfect pass through 2 defenders right to Callahan’s stick for a tap in.
He got the puck around 4 guys that play, as well as the goalie.
You said he needed to be spoon-fed in order to produce. That’s being spoon-fed now?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
- (Englelland) doesn’t go down to “block” Gabby, he’s tied with a Ranger behind the net, and only turns and flails as Gabby passes. Same with Niskinin in front, who releases from his man at the the last minute to offer a weak pokecheck at best. All three guys were so out of position they never had a chance.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
The defensemen is infront of the net to the right side, and Kunitz is right in front of him.
Gabs speeds around Kunitz, who even if he is flat footed is in decent position, then cuts inside passed Englelland who went do to block a shot, and then puts the pass between a guys legs to Cally.
I don’t know what else you want.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I love this response
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Buck, I’ve reached my limit with you. Sometimes I think you are trying to have a good discussion, but right now you’re just trolling.
The man drew a penalty, should have drawn another one, scored a goal, and set up Callahan for a tap in after a gorgeous deke. If you can’t appreciate that, you just don’t understand hockey.
Obviously Gaborik didn’t deserve any credit on that play, but instead everyone else takes blame. And obviously Bobby Ryan scores every goal on his own, even though he plays with two players who you say are better than Gaborik.
Enough already man.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I understand hockey VERY well
If you can watch that Cally goal, and tell me Kunitz wasn’t out of the play before Gabby even got the puck, you don’t know what you’re watching. I’m not saying Gabby doesn’t get any credit their, he got the pass in front, and recognized Kunitz was out of the play and came back towards the net. I’ve heard him get praised for this unreal move all day, and that move just wasn’t there.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
see above.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Did you watch the Pens game???? That set up to Cally was unbelievable and he did it all by himself. Dude seriously, its like your a secret spy that wants to blow up our whole team so we suck, this point is absolutely ridiculous.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 30, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Cognitive Dissonance man.
People believe and see what they want to.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Watched the game, and watched the highlights a couple times. Kunitz got caught flatfooted by the pass. Gabby went to the outside, if Kunitz could have caught him, Gabby would have KEPT going to the outside. Kunitz got beat by the pass.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Whatever Buck, at this point its pointless to argue with you over both Gaborik and Staal because your opinions are already set in stone. Despite they are probably our two best players. Ill just take solace in knowing that your wrong and Gabby will be here for a while.
by CrazyRangerFan on Dec 1, 2011 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
Dubi for Ryan would have to be done, Im just biased cause I want to see our homegrown guys get us a cup. I don’t want to be trading for everybody else’s players it takes the fun out of it. Therefore Im biased and would rather keep Dubi lol.
by CrazyRangerFan on Nov 29, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
If we were getting Ryan in return, I would be willing to trade Dubinsky. Even if we did throw MZA and VTank (two guys who aren’t going to play for us) into the trade as well.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
+10000
"It's far from done, but we did get something accomplished."-#19 B.Richards
by -19-AgainstAll on Nov 29, 2011 6:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
As far as the Dubi "Slump"
The guy only has one goal, but is second on the team in Faceoffs and Assists. HMMMM…. It’s almost like he’s a CENTER. But that couldn’t be. Torts said he CLEARLY was a wing….
Dubi isn’t a “Top 6” guy, but he’s a guy who can hang with top players, do their dirty work, win faceoffs, and be a physical presence to keep them safe. He’s not NEARLY enough on his own to get Ryan, but if they want him as part of it, you gotta do it.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 29, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that Dubi being involved is fair, but throwing Stepan or AA in there is way over the top.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Hey Rangers fans.
Ducks fan here. Just to be clear, the likely asking price for Bobby Ryan is:
Top 6 Centre
Top 4 Defenseman
Blue-chip Prospect
1st Round Pick
Is there a package that the Rangers could offer for Ryan? I offered something like: Girardi, Boyle, Prust, pick in a FanPost a while back on Anaheim Calling, but I know you guys fucking love Dan Girardi. I’m eager to see what you guys would give up with this template for your package.
And Getzlaf is a lot better than Gaborik, sorry to say. Just read some stuff above, and had to have my input.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Thanks for stopping by!
We have been discussing this a lot lately and I plan on making a post on your site to ask for a fair trade price, but I have to wait for my 24 hour waiting period to end.
And the Gaborik v Getzlaf argument is pointless. Neither is being traded, and both are more important to their own organizations.
We’re not trading Girardi, simple as that. Especially with Staal out, dude is almost as untouchable as Hank. From the Rangers point of view, Girardi alone is probably more important than Ryan.
Ryan would be the best player in the trade, but IMO, giving up a Dubinsky, Sauer, good prospect, and 1st is definitely too much.
Ryan is better than Dubi for sure, no ones arguing that. But a top 4 solid defensemen, a first round pick, and a good prospect better.. no way. Not even close.
Lets narrow this gap!
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Yeah, I figured with the Staal injury, Girardi seems untouchable. And deservedly so, he’s a freak.
Dubinksy is interesting, since I myself have had a giant man-crush on him since he used to hand Mike Richards his lunch. Guy is a prototypical Duck player, and goes no window as well. A beast in his own right.
I’m not so sure about Sauer, as I don’t know much about him. His brother used to play for the Ducks, but what is Michael like in terms of playing style?
Good prospect – is Kreider available? Stepan maybe? If one of those guys were involved, I think the pick could be downgraded.
Eager to chat with you guys.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Sauer is the epitome of a shut-down D. He’s been paired with a very defensively sub-par Del Zotto, and manages to shut down great players left and right. Without him, we would not be where we are right now.
Sauer is available, but he’s not a throw in by any means. He has a lot of value.
Stepan right now has 12 points in 21 games, and has been Great centering Gaborik. He’s not untouchable either, but has a lot of value as well, especially as a growing 21 year old. He’s got a lot of potential, and wont be moved easily.
Dubinsky is struggling, but he is still a 40-50 point player, and besides that he’s very good at faceoffs, works hard, can check well, and can play great defensively.
Kreider is widely considered the best prospect in our system. Some combination of these guys would make the trade work, but more than 2 of them would just be too much. The team is playing well, and messing up all of our chemistry for one guy isn’t worth it.
Obviously I’m going to value our teams prospects highly, as all fans do, so that needs to be taken into account.
In order to have a better understanding, what’s Bobby Ryan’s game like? We all see the points, the manageable contract, and we all know he’s a guy capable of 60-70 points a season, with that number potentially going up, but what about the rest? What’s he like defensively, and without the puck? Does he impact the game even when he isn’t scoring?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Right now, all that we Ducks fans really know is that he’s a #3 option to Getzlaf and Perry. Carlyle has tried him on his own line in past years, but it’s either the personnel was bad, or he became plain invisible.
We don’t know much about what he is really like without Getzlaf and Perry, but on an absolute basis, we can say that positionally he doesn’t like crashing the crease, but loves to take the wrister off the wing. He doesn’t back-check hard, but we tend to blame that on the influence of “Getzloaf”.
He usually plays on our second PP unit (as Selanne plays on the off wing on 1PP), and has had some success there, but we don’t know his potential when getting those 1PP opportunities.
So really, even as a Ducks fan, it’s hard to say what he is since he’s so often overshadowed by the play of the Twins (Getzlaf/Perry). We still base most of his future stats on his tremendous potential, and that’s really the gamble you will get if the Rangers are the team that acquires him. He is one of those guys that will completely crumble without his set-up men (the Twins), or will spread his wings without his mentors (a la Claude Giroux).
That’s about as good as a scouting report as I can give.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
not the greatest comparison
but atlanta didn’t get that kind of return for kovalchuk (maybe the thinking at the time was bergfors was a top 6 forward and oduya was a top 4 dman, but they’re not)
barring sather (or some other gm) losing their mind anaheim will take a lesser offer or decide it’s not worth it
dubinsky seems like a no-brainer to go the other way because he can be a power forward presence without the elite scoring touch, plus the salary helps to balance things a bit
i don’t know enough about the ducks except that they’re in free fall, if they’re looking to rebuild with youth maybe two of valentenko/thomas/kreider plus dubi does it, i’m going out on a limb and guessing ryan stays put
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
The thing is Atlanta knew they were going to lose Kovalchuck, so it’s going to be more.
Given what I know now about Ryan and Dubi, the extra 30 points we’d be getting, minus the defensive ability and toughness, is worth a solid amount but nothing more than what you said above.
Personally, I would not do Kreider, Thomas, and Dubi.
Two of them, but not all 3.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
true, that's why i said not the greatest comparison
but the surface of that deal shows a theoretical top 4 d-man, a theoretical top 6 forward, a theoretical blue chip prospect (not sure if cormier has straightened himself out after the issues he had last year), and the first rounder
this idea of all four elements in a legit deal is almost getting into lindros trade territory and that’s just not going to happen
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
that's lindros trade territory quebec-philly/nyc, not the rangers-philly deal nine years later
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Mike Richards didn’t even get half of that. That’s roughly what Chris Pronger got. Think if that’s what Anaheim wants, well, probably is too much.
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 30, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
YAY!
Impartial fan!!
:)
What do you think is a fair trade for Ryan?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I’m not great at judging these things, but I’d think a 1st plus James Neal’s return (both 2005 1st round skilled power forward types).
Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.
by red army line on Nov 30, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
That might be the asking ptice but their not getting it for a slumping player.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Make the deal. Mr. JuMowbray, consider these and let me know which sucks less
1) Krieder, Valentenko, Zucarrello & either 1st & 4th this year or the next two 2nd rounders
2) Bourque, McIllrath, Wolski & two 1st round picks (2012 & 2014)
3) Krieder, Erixon & this year’s 1st+2nd round picks
4) Redden, Christensen, Cam Talbot & Mike Rupp
All of those, I believe, are serious offers. Take your pick
Were they saying "Boo" or "Boo-urns?"
@SlayerSantana on Twitter
Any way McDonagh, Boyle or Prust could be subbed into any of those offers? Or are those guys off the table in your opinion?
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
McDonagh wouldn’t be traded. He could easily turn into our best defensemen, and probably will.
Boyle and Prust could definitely be put in, especially Boyle.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
And in replying to those specific offers...
4 would definitely be the least of my liking. Redden, met the guy once in Hawai’i, great guy, but we all know his problem. LA lifestyle is a no-no. Christiensen we’ve had and didn’t like; Rupp worse than Devaux who is worse than Parros, so, redundant; and we have Gibson and Bobkov, so no need for another goalie prospect.
1 I wouldn’t like because Zuccarrello isn’t really an upgrade on any of our bottom six forwards. We get the 1st this year in the second offer, so that’s that, and even though Krieder is on the table, Valentenko isn’t better than either Erixon or McIlrath from deals 2 and 3.
And finally, 2 would edge out 3 by the slightest of margins due to Wolski’s immediate impact, and even though Krieder > Bourque, McIlrath > Erixon IMO. McIlrath is definitely a guy I would love to have in Anaheim due to his sheer size. I could see him being Fowler’s partner down the road.
My counter-offer to 2 would be:
Boyle, McIlrath, Wolski, two 1st round picks (2013 & 2014)
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Very interesting counter offer.
IMO, I think we stay the course. If we stay healthy, play up to our talent level we are very good. I think by adding (Next season) Mcilrath,Erixon, and Kreider to our lineup, we are more than cup ready.
BTW, to me, Prust is worth his weight in gold.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
"Stepan, step in, step out" Timothy Leary
Scott Gomez, the gift that keeps on giving!
by nathansfamous on Nov 30, 2011 6:53 AM EST up reply actions
boyle is less a top 6 forward than dubinsky really
but hey, who am i to nitpick?
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
SOLD
You guys are getting ROBBED in that deal.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
We’re not really giving anything from the current roster up and would be improving greatly i[ front, so I’m thinking those picks are certainly no better then early 20’s.
Also, getting rid of Boyle would be a HUGE plus, the fact he touched the cup this summer when his buddy won it doesn’t sit well with me at all.
by BuckarooClub on Nov 30, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
That’s your reasoning for losing Boyle being a plus.
Okay.
I would do that trade though.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
2 1st’s? Are we trading for Gretzky from Edmoton or a guy with 11pts this season? what the fuck?
Dubi, Zuc, Valantenko and a 2nd gets it done
you might be able to sub McIIlrath for Dubi.
McIIIrath, Zuc, Boyle and a 2nd?
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
I replied to the wrong comment with the trade ideas. I would not trade the two firsts.
I would trade Zuc, Boyle, Mc and a 2nd, but of course they wont.
Essentially, we would have to give up too much to get him, so we shouldn’t trade for him at all.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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I'd have to want #4
We are going to go to Philadelphia... and we are going to win.- Glen Sather
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Dec 1, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
More probable trade that Ducks would actually consider:
Anisimov, McIlrath, Zuccarello, Wolski, 1st for Ryan
by SLR_Rangers_18 on Nov 30, 2011 11:34 AM EST reply actions
I dont want to hear that you cant break up the GAS line…stepan and gabby are the reason that line works, put ryan, dubi, hagelin, avery there and they would have the same success
by SLR_Rangers_18 on Nov 30, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Take out Zucs, and it should still be enough.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
yikes...
this makes me nervous. i understand the mark up in value…but i love Anisimov and just haven’t watched Ryan enough, aside from clips, to feel any attachment for him. Zucs, Wolski, Kreider, McIlrath, 2nd rounder…okay. But let’s not give up either Anisimov or Boyle.
d
I don’t want to do that trade. In fact I wouldn’t, regarding how highly I value Anisimov.
I’m okay with giving up Boyle, but if we give up AA for Ryan, we better not be giving much else.
AA is on pace for 50 points. The extra points Ryan has, minus Anisimov’s defensive ability, are not worth much.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
According to NHL.com story, Bobby Ryan off the trading block
Source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=4485
"Clever is the eunuch version of funny"
Makes sense with the new coach, who probably wants to get a feel for his players before any changes are made.
If the struggles continue I’m sure he’ll be back on the block again closer to the trade deadline, but BB will be given every chance to revive this team until then.
They still have a shot load of talent and a great goalie.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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