I wonder when........
by KingHenrik30 on Dec 12, 2011 1:04 AM EST
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All I can really say is this...
The NHL is, first and foremost, a business. Now to make a crass analogy, think of the NHL as pimps and the individual teams as hoes. As a pimp, you’ve got to put your best selling hoes out there so you can consistently make the most amount of money. It’s a simple application of cost-benefit analysis. More unfortunate to me is the fact that, unless the Rangers win some Cups soon, Girardi will not be remembered except by the Garden Faithful. And like Torts said, it has to do with pedigree. There’s just no honor among thieves.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Dec 12, 2011 1:35 AM EST reply actions
well said
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Weekes has a long memory
Weekes signs to be our #1 goalie and an obscure 7th round draft pick comes out of nowhere following training camp and grabs the #1 gig. Weekes is relegated as the backup for the entire year, can’t find another NHL spot the following year, and finds himself a desk job for NHL Network. The King touches a very personal cord for Weekes!
Nah, if anything the only person who does give Hank his due is Kevin Weekes. I can recount numerous times where Weekes has praised him as a goalie, as for the rest of the NHL I dont know. Their obsession with Tim Thomas is ridiculous the guy has two pretty good seasons behind a very good team and all the sudden they make it seem like he’s the best ever, well you know what every year besides 08-09 and 10-11 Tim Thomas has sucked a big one, and he can’t even compare to Henrik in terms of consistency actually nobody can. There is only one goalie in this league that can say they were/are as consistent as Hank has been the past 6 years, and thats Marty Broudeur. Hank better win the Vezina this year its only about time. As for Pekka Rinne the dude is sick, but hasn’t been better than Hank more or less equal but Pekka has only been around a couple of seasons so its a wash, King is better.
by CrazyRangerFan on Dec 12, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Out of nowhere?
Didn’t Hank win 2 championships in the SEL?
good point
I dont know what it is either. Even though he has been nominated, he seems to be an afterthought. he is consistently in the top of nearly every goalie category, and his teams success largely rides on his performance.Capt Cally, you may be right, in that giving rangers awards may bring some heat on the league, because they are widely hated. Richter never won one either, just saying. i dont think they take those intangibles into into consideration. everyone shits ont he NYR as being a bunch of no name misfits, yet they continue to dominate top teams this year. oh well, let the haters hate. I cant remember the last time it felt so good to be a NYR fan!
I piss excellence
NO GOALIE EVER, has started their career with more than 5 30+ win seasons. Hank has 6 six and is a third of the way to a seventh. If that is not excellence maintained throughout a career, I really don’t know what is.
The problem might be that Hank has been TOO consistent. His whole career there was always one or two goalies that were playing better than hank, just in that particular season. Hank is always in the top three or so for the season but the other guys have slightly better numbers for a season and drop off, whereas Hank keeps on truckin. The problem is people are prisoners of the moment and love to talk about the guy that is on the hot streak, which Hank doesn’t really do; he’s just amazing all the fucking time
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 12, 2011 11:38 AM EST reply actions
KingHenrik30, I have said for 3 years that we have the best goalie in the world. He has the best since the lockout covering that period of time, and its not even close. At least 30 wins in his first 6 years is a first in NHL HISTORY. There’s one problem: he plays for one of the most hated teams in the league by the boys and girls on 6th Avenue. I have it on confirmed information that the leagues HATES the Rangers. Hates them with a passion. They love the Pens, Flyers, and Wings. You see the bias out on the ice through the officiating. The “tolerance” level for the Rangers is much lower than other teams. It’s been obvious for a long time and confirmed by my “source.” So that carries over to the “marketing and accolades” by the league and the networks it has influence over. So there you are, even if warranted, the King will have to be a “clear cut” choice to win any awards. That will be tough to do.
Richter1994:
Confirmed ay? Did this source tell you why exactly? Is it the way the Rangers spent money in the ’90’s and pre lockout 2000’s? Why do they hate us so much?
by KingHenrik30 on Dec 12, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like that is 90% of the problem. Everybody just assumes that we’ve bought all the talent we have through free agency and resent us for it and then hold onto the resentment when they discover how good our foundation (ie. Drafting, growing talent) is.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 13, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
You’re right, the refs are on the Pens side. That’s why they’re the team in the league that gets called for the most penalties. What about that game earlier in the year? Everyone was complaining about the refs, then they called 4 penalties in the last 8 minutes on the Pens and everyone went quiet. 6 of the last 7 penalties called in that game were on the Pens.
People like to make up all this fantasy land bullshit about how the Pens and other teams get an unfair advantage. But the Pens (Post-Lockout) have ALWAYS been near the Top of the league in penalties taken. Fact is those teams are GOOD, and for the last 6 years, have been better then the Rangers. That might be different this year but we’ll have to wait and see. With that said, I hate the Pens, mainly because they have the worst fans in sports, but that’s a discussion for another day.
twitter.com/NYRangers365
by NYRangerFan718 on Dec 12, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
I won’t comment on the ref’s bias, but it is almost entirely irrelevant the penalty numbers are for a team, at least in terms of this discussion. The Penguins, presumably, could be called for off the top of my head 200 penalties over the course of the season. 200 penalties may lead the league but it doesn’t mean shit, again at least in the terms of this discussion, if the refs didn’t call them for a penalty when they deserved it on 400 other occasions. The only way to really get a good picture would be to watch every single game the penguins and rangers play and compare their treatment by the refs (ie. subjectivity would play a big part because what should/should not have been called is highly debatable)
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 13, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
The game on Nov 29th is a prime example. What was the difference between the first 30 minutes and the 2nd 30 minutes? The refs made the calls in the 2nd half of the game hence all the Ranger PPs. The Pens played the same way the whole game. They are cheap because they know they can get away with it.
I don’t think they’re irrelevant. Pens had 480 penalties last year, and 1388 PIM’s. Rangers had 384 penalties, and 1074 PIM’s. Significant difference. Rangers went 4-1-1 against them last year. Not including Roughing/Fighting penalties, the Pens took 21 penalties (2 majors), Rangers 20 (0 majors) in those 6 games. An even amount there.
I watch every Rangers game. IMO, there is no bias. Fans, especially in hockey, love to blame the refs for everything. I have no idea why, but hockey fans take it to another level. But my main problem with it? They love to blame the refs when they lose, or whenever there’s a bad call against them, but they NEVER acknowledge when they get a call, or when the refs does something that favors their team.
twitter.com/NYRangers365
by NYRangerFan718 on Dec 13, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying there is or isn’t a bias, but why is having an even amount of penalties called on each team a strong indication of the ref’s objectivity? 19 of the those 20 Ranger penalties could have been undeserved and the Penguins could have deserved 10 more penalties. It comes down to the quality of the calls not the specific quantities.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 13, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
so if one team plays cheap the entire game and gets away with half the crap they pull but the calls are even then it’s a fair called game? ahhh, no. The Flyers of the 70s got away with murder even though they were the most penalized team in the league. They should have players in the box all game long based on the way they played.
No arguments about the King being great, best postlockout, etc….but can we stop quoting the “first goalie with 30 wins” stuff? It’s nice, but it’s means little.
He’s also (one of) the first goalie(s) to spend his first 6 years without ties. If he played in the ‘ties’ era, he wouldn’t have hit 30 in 4 of the 6 seasons.
Even without that, it’s also a bit phony. Dryden won 30 in his first 6 full years. He went 6-0-0 in a cup of coffee in his first season. There are a couple others that won 30 in their first 6 full years as well who played more (15-20 games) in their first year.
Sorry, that stat is a peeve of mine w/ the shootout skewing win totals up.
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wow George, take it easy, lol. what you also failed to mention is that Montreal benefited tremendously from the “regional draft” system that the NHL had for many of the early NHL teams. They had all the rights to the players in their region that dominated the # of players in the league back in the 60s into the 70s. So they had first crack at all the better players. So if you want to talk about advantages then that is a much bigger advantage than the King getting the benefits of a shootout win in a much more talent laden league spread out amongst 30 teams. #2, look at the teams the King got those wins on. Other that the Jagr teams and this year’s team, what exactly did he have to work with? Most of the wins he got were directly attributable to him. Dryden was a great goalie but stopping 16 shots from the outside every game did not necessarily make him break a sweat on most nights. I’m old enough to remember watching them play and most nights it was men against boys. In the early 70s they still had that draft by region advantage from the players they had gotten in the 60s.
George:
I never thought of it like that. I think the league takes the wins thing seriously so its even more frustrating that they don’t prop up the King with a little more respect.
Eh, even the league has begun to understand that shootout wins aren’t really equal, thus the new tiebreak rules.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 12, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
But you have to give credit to Lundqvist who has been one of the best, if not the best in shootouts over his career. The only people with a better shootout percentages than him in their careers, aside from a few goalies with much much much smaller sample sizes, are Johan Hedberg and Fluery.
Lundqvist has a .762% in 248 attempts.
Hedberg has a .775% in 111 attempts.
Fleury has .768% in 142 attempts.
Its still a great feat to have those 30 wins even with the shootout because Hank earned those wins (even if guys in the past didn’t have a chance to win in the SO), plus there used to be a 20 minute overtime compared to the five we have now.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 13, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying he didn’t earn them, yes he obviously is very good. The point is more that guys before him didn’t have a chance to earn them.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 13, 2011 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
The league DOESN’T hate the Rangers. The league doesn’t hate any team. We’re talking about the NHL, not the NBA. But the league needs to promote itself, and it’s young talent. The first 2 SC Finals? Edmonton/Carolina and Anaheim/Ottawa.. That would never have happened if the NHL held some sort of bias.
Point being, the Rangers, in New York, are probably the most stable market the NHL has in the U.S (Right there with Detroit).. They don’t need to promote the Rangers on a large scale. The Rangers also haven’t made a deep run in the playoffs yet (Post-Lockout).. When they do, they Hank love will be shoved down your throat. I think Lundqvist receives plenty of respect and credit. Everyone knows he has carried this team the last 6 years, and that’s mentioned anytime the Rangers are on Versus/NBC/TSN etc.. Also, I think Weekes is one of the guys that tends to give Hank the most attention and respect when it comes to talking about the best.
He’s been the most consistent, and IMO, the best goalie in the NHL post-lockout. But with that said, he probably hasn’t deserved a Vezina yet (BAsed on one single season performance).. He’s having a great season, possibly his best yet if he continues to play at this level. He’ll have a great chance to win it.. That’s if Brian Elliot decides to STOP lol..
twitter.com/NYRangers365
That being the First 2 SC Finals after the lockout..
twitter.com/NYRangers365
by NYRangerFan718 on Dec 12, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
Brian Elliot will not continue at his current pace
Also not to mention Tim Thomas’ numbers are bullshit because if you have a .938 SV% and your backup has a .930 clearly your playing behind a good defense. In the situation of Boston I don’t know how Rask in 9 starts only has 5 wins with a .930 and a 2.01 GAA. Sounds like a lack of goal support to me.
Goalie’s numbers in general will come back down to earth and I expect Henrik to finish up with a SV% at least over a .920. But if and when Staal and Sauer come back this could be the year Henrik wins the Vezina and puts together a great statistical season.
We are going to go to Philadelphia... and we are going to win.- Glen Sather
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Dec 12, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
I guess I didn't do my homework about Weekes...
….if a few of you are saying he’s a Hank supporter.
I’d love for Richter1994 to expand on his cryptic source’s point. I tend to believe the league dislikes the Rangers. Unless it really is the whole ‘stable market’ thing. Because there is lots of evidence that the league has this unspoken bias.
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