Where The New York Rangers' Defense Stands
It is becoming increasingly obvious that the New York Rangers have issues they need to address. After last night's 4-1 defeat at the hands of the St. Louis Blues, the Rangers have lost four of their last six games, including the last two games.
In the past two losses specifically, the Rangers' defense has been an issue. Last night John Tortorella was switching lines routinely, that included the defensive pairings, something Tortorella has been able to avoid for the most part. Anton Stralman played over 20 minutes (deservedly so), while both Jeff Woywitka and Steve Eminger played less than 15 minutes each.
That is why players like Dan Girardi and Ryan McDonagh are averaging well over 25 minutes a night. And that is a problem.
To put it into perspective: Against the Blues the Rangers had two defenseman -- Woywitka played 11:19 and Eminger played 13:38 -- who played less than 15 minutes. The blues didn't have a single defenseman play less than 19 minutes. Not one. Same goes for the loss to the Dallas Stars. The Stars also didn't have a single defenseman play less than 19 minutes a night. The Rangers had two (Woywita and Eminger again) play less than 15 minutes.
Join me after the jump for more.
Before anyone starts blaming Tortorella, ask yourself this: What else can he do? These injuries have forced his hand, it's given him no choice than to use Eminger (who was signed to be the 7th defenseman in case of injuries) and Woywitka (who the Stars tried to send to the AHL) as the bottom pair defenseman. Even Stralman has had to fill in for significant minutes.
That's not Tortorella's fault.
I don't even know if Tim Erixon is going to be the answer, although he should be getting 15 minutes a night rather than Woywitka's constant 11. I don't see any reason why the Rangers can't swap Erixon and Woywitka right now and slowly build up Erixon's confidence. It's nothing against Woywitka either, he's been solid, but if Tortorella isn't going to trust him with more than 11 minutes a night then he may as well take a seat.
And before you go demanding a trade, remember that the Rangers' situation is out in the open. There isn't one general manager Glen Sather could negotiate with who doesn't know how little leverage the Rangers have at the negotiation table. If Sather opens up talks with another team for a quality veteran defenseman they're going to want him to overpay.
And, remember that the expectation is that Marc Staal and Michael Sauer will return this season. So what do you do with all the defenseman on the roster now, and the glut of quality prospects who are waiting in the wings to make a run at a roster spot next year?
Simply put, there is no real answer right now. The easiest -- and best long-term option in my opinion -- is to slid Erixon into Woywitka's slot. Whether or not that happens remains to be seen.
The Rangers might just need to fight through this spell until Sauer gets back. Or maybe the defense will come together as the team tries to get past this rough patch. Either way, something needs to change.
Thoughts?
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Agree with everything, and I’ll say that it’s going to have to be the forwards who are going to have to step up their game. Aside from Wolski, who probably would have been benched anyway at some point, and a useless Rupp, they’re healthy. There’s nothing we can really do about the defense except give guys like MDZ/Erixon/Eminger/Stralman more minutes so Girardi and McD don’t drop dead.
Torts is going to have to ask more of the forwards. A good deal of our guys are the 2-way type who know the defensive side of things, they need to step it up. I said it in the other thread, no more damn neutral-zone turnovers, get the fore-check going, back-check hard, and help out as much as possible in their own zone.
People want to say “well, IF we had Marc Staal or Michael Sauer this game would be different,” but those things can’t be controlled. They’re going to have to rely on what they have which is quality goaltending and good depth at forward. Hagelin is about the only guy that’s really consistent in his effort out there. Dubi, Boyle and Feds have contributed very little offensively. The GAS line seems to have run out of gas. They all need to step it up.
And therein lies the reason for my reply in the previous thread...
If the forwards NEED to backcheck so damn hard and NEED to make up the defensive slack then the offensive production will most certainly suffer. We’ve seen this already.
I hope for at least .500 through the end of the calendar year and maybe we can hope for 1 of the 2 back soon after. That would leave us in good shape.
Any good team has forwards that backcheck hard. Its what makes a championship caliber team.
"Shoot the Puck Barry, Shoot the puck !" Bill Chadwick
by RangerFanInChicago on Dec 16, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
You've missed the point...
If the forwards need to make up for the defensman’s inabilities than the offensive production will suffer. I did not say the forwards should not backcheck hard.
While the team has looked pretty good in their own zone
its the transition game that has really slowed down almost tot the point of being stagnant. The defense hasn’t been able to get the puck up and out of the zone fast enough and the forwards haven’t been able to generate fast breakouts into the offensive zone like they have before…if the Rangers can get back to those fast breakouts then I think they would be fine offensively. On the defensive end its hard to change much because we don’t have enough bodies to give Girardi and McD a rest…just gotta ride through this storm and hope for reinforcements to come in, we’ve won before without Staal in the line up and the team is still the same group of players. Just have to pick up the tempo and wake the fuck up
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Agree AND!...
It goes even one further than that. Torts was spot post-game in that our forwards won very few, if any, battles along the boards, both in STL zone and ours.
When we were winning, the defensive miscues were few and far between because a) we spent way more time in the other team’s zone and won the battles in front and in the corners, and b) we back checked way better than we have the past two games.
Defense is a 6 man operation. And, oh by the way, Hank has let in more long range shots than usual, the D is clearly short on experience as is obvious and was pointed out, and the forwards need to show way more willingness to compete.
does anyone know how the whale defense is?
I agree with getting Erixon in there, but what about Valentenko, Parlett, Bell, etc? I thought Tenn had a good year last year, maybe he’s ready to play. On the bright side Del Zotto is playing well this year and I like Stralmans game so far. I think Tenkk might be the physical force to replace Sauer for now.
by BestGoalSongEver on Dec 16, 2011 10:51 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I think Stralman has been improving. He has some decent mobility. The weak link in our pairings is Woywitka. Eminger has done ok. Woywitka keeps getting beat one on one and along the boards.
I think part of the hesitation in putting Erixon in is the mini slump the team is in.Not the ideal situation to be thrown into but maybe his mobility can help move the attack along.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Dec 16, 2011 10:51 AM EST reply actions
Why Glen is shopped the bargain bins for D help is beyond me.
Instead of making one move for a guy who can eat up 20 a night, he added Bell, Witwiki and Strawman to the mix after Staal situation surfaced.
Create some cap space and pull the trigger already. The d is clearly over worked and getting exposed.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 11:51 AM EST via mobile reply actions
it's very simple
29 teams in this league are well aware of how decimated our D is. Can you imagine the kind of outlandish offers he’s getting from all those teams holding us hostage?
He has done absolutely the right thing by not panicking. Yes, it sucks without Marc, Michael, etc. but now would be the absolute worst time to desperately pull the trigger on a deal. We will never get true return on whatever investment we ship out.
Stay the course WITHIN the organization. :)
yeah they're aware
and like you said Sather isn’t panicking. If they are pulling on our ball bags about this he won’t make the trade.
@btown46
Thats hogwash..
Bidding will only go up as trade deadline nears. The leverage you sight is a falacy..like Brandon Dubinsky being top 6 forward.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 2:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh really?...
In that case, I’ve gotta nice ‘72 Dodge Dart in mint condition just achin’ for the takin’.
Interested? :)
That makes no sense....
I’m proposing Sather move value for value (which is how trades work). Your talking about giving value for a turd. They need a top 4 d man, thats not a ’72 shitbox.
I eould bet Sather has multiple options worked up and is holding out hope for Staal/Sauer and/or Hank and offense carry them.
However, logic dictates Staal/Sauer are down the road and the D is gradually being worn down. They are going to make a move..its a question of when.
Maybe this clarification helped you understand the original comment.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 6:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
true
we are one injury to McD or Girardi away from a free fall and a wasted season.
I know we as a fan base have embraced the youth movement the past 3 seasons and balk at the idea of trading top prospects, but bringing in an elite defender might be well worth it at this point.
@btown46
I think that Glenn went shopping at the used car store and found himself a used Civic with a heater that doesn’t work because he figured this summer that his BMW would be good to go by late in the fall. Now its getting cold and that BMW doesn’t look to be repaired yet. It will be a long winter if Glenn can’t get a better ride.
The Rangers patch work for the Rangers defense is not going to hold up for the full season and I think that Glenn was expecting/hoping for a quicker return for Staal. I don’t think that the Rangers should try to acquire a 1st pairing type as I think the cost would be way too high. But getting a servicable defensemen to play 2nd pair now and then stay on as 3rd pair when we are back to full strength.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think that our glut of young defensemen is exagerated. We do have young talent in the NHL, but are there any real projected NHL talent in Hartford? I understand that Valtenko was not impressive during camp (but I hope I am wrong).
I know of those two, but neither are in Hartford. Last I heard McIlrath is still a couple of years out, any change to that?
The kid is 19
and in the middle of his juniors season, there is no change to that. He’s a big, physical guy and I say he’s at least 2 years away, probably needs a season in the AHL 1st.
Proudly suffering as a Ranger fan.
Forward issue is now the defensive problem
Our defense has been more than adequate to win in almost every game we have played. Last night’s game was an example of our forwards causing our defense to break down. Our forwards pretty much took the night off. They figuratively and literaly got their asses kicked by the Blues. The Blues out hit, out hustled, out shot and out backchecked
them ( not sure if out backchecked is a legit phrase but I’m using it). The complete breakdown on offense led to the Blues swarming in our end. Frankly it looked like they all couldnt give a shit during the game. If Feds, Boyle, Dubi, etc arent going to score they damn well better hit someone and play some tenacious d.
"Shoot the Puck Barry, Shoot the puck !" Bill Chadwick
by RangerFanInChicago on Dec 16, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions
Come on
Do you really think listening to Jack Black and Kyle Gass is going to solve Dubinsky and Boyle’s problems?
by Guess Who's Back? on Dec 16, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure what’s on Dubi or Boyle’s mind but you woud think Backes (sp?) knocking everyone on their asses might have inspired them just a little bit to hit back. Boyle is the softest 6-6 guy in the league. Dubi looks like he’s on prozac.
"Shoot the Puck Barry, Shoot the puck !" Bill Chadwick
by RangerFanInChicago on Dec 16, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Now obviously this is partly coincidental,
but it is amazing how lifeless and completely dead this team has looked without Avery…. again. Torts is really a stupid stubborn fucking asshole sometimes. “I didn’t really have anywhere to play Sean, so I sent him down so Erik fucking Christensen could prance around the ice like a ballerina for 6 minutes a game.” It’s too bad John Tortorella can’t admit when he made a mistake, because now he is hurting our team, and what happens the next time he has an issue with a player better then Avery? Avery did nothing but what was asked of him while he was here. He drew more penalties then he took, he skated hard, he worked the cycle well, he even scored some goals in big situations, I literally couldn’t possibly imagine what more any reasonable person could have wanted out of the 8 minutes a night he is getting. He was helping the team. I could really see Torts sabotaging our season at some point because he gets mad at a guy like Gaborik and benches him for almost an entire game while our offense sputters, because Torts is too damn stubborn and has too big of an ego to ever admit he as wrong.
And I like torts as a coach for the most part, but it is his stubbornness and ego that kill me, and could definitely end up taking this teams nose off to spite its face.
This is just a guess but I wonder if he keeps EC in rotation just to uphold the minimal bit of trade value he has? Avery really will never be of interest to another team, but Christensen can be tossed into a deal at some point and be acceptable…
Nice thought but you would hope if he was being “Showcased” that he would actually put some effort in. I dont care if that guy is 100% in shootouts his attitude and work ethic during a game are detrimental to the team.
"Shoot the Puck Barry, Shoot the puck !" Bill Chadwick
by RangerFanInChicago on Dec 16, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
What is the Rangers' record when Avery plays?
EC is a waste unless you want a team where every player has played center.
The absence of any emotion in the last two games is astounding. There is no player willing to incite to create energy and change momentum. Prust can’t (and shouldn’t) have to fight every game to change the game. Something is missing.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Dec 16, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
A treatise on where the Rangers are at right now
we are lucky enough (or skilled enough might be the proper way to phrase it) to have found ourselves in such a predicament with a record that is nothing to sneeze at. It’s not like we are fighting for the 8th spot in the playoffs AND our injury troubles are catching up to us. We’ve got McD, Girardi, a Del Zotto who is playing very well, an Eminger who is pulling is weight, and if we can pull our usual magic by bringing up defensemen and finiding out they are more than ready for an NHL workload, we should be able to hang on until Staal comes back. My feeling is that Sauer is for the year. Concussions are now treated as a season ending ailment in this league and rightly so. “Luckily” for us Staal should be back sometime around the beginning of the playoffs, +/- 15 games and maybe that’ll give him some time to get his rhythm back.
All that aside though, the offense is looking a bit uninspired as of late. Maybe 24/7 will help shed some light on that or maybe not but they just look tired. Even Cally couldn’t get into his 6th gear. Last nights game was by far the worst performance of the year. If not for Hank the game could’ve easily been 7-1. Dubi missed the net by a mile on what should’ve been a premier scoring opportunity, Boyle is looking the polar opposite of relaxed… if you put a buffalo nickel in his hand he might squeeze it til it shits.. and Fedetenko has been quiet. Gabby hasn’t looked his usual self and someone needs to tell him that he is not Gretzky/Lemieux and stick handling through 3 players is not part of his back of tricks.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Dec 16, 2011 1:44 PM EST reply actions
Huh?
How do you figure? Sauer done for the season and Stall out until mid-March??? Where do you get your information because I have not seen anything that even hinted towards that notion.
True, teams treat concussions much more cautiously but there’s been plenty of concussions already this season in which the player has already returned and is playing full minutes. Unless there’s a reason to think these guys are done for the year, I think we should be looking to fill the gap for now.
Boyle and Dubi are both squeezing the stick extra tight. There I agree.
skinner out indefinitely, giroux out indefinitely, pronger out indefinitely, staal has been out what seems like a year… in some earlier threads there was enough people “out indefinitely” where we were creating concussion all-star team rosters with Eric Lindros as the Coach. Teams are taking concussions very seriously and keeping players out entire seasons. Crosby was gone for a year, came back and got sneezed on and now hes back in headache-land. This is how I figure.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Dec 16, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
that was me and that was entirely a joke.
no one even took into account if the player was done for the year in doing that.
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by RichieToGabbySCORE on Dec 16, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
that’s beside the point… I was merely commenting about how cautious (and rightfully so) teams are being about treating and managing concussion cases. Referencing your joke, and of course I knew it was a joke, was to show how many players are out this season with concussions. I’m not the team doctor, all I said was “my feeling is that Sauer is out for a year.” If it turns out that Sauer is back and ready to go sooner, I’d be smiling ear to ear with the rest of you.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Dec 16, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
This team is not big anda
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 3:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Perhaps Sather should take a small risk
And re-sign Bryan McCabe to a league minimum contract?
by Guess Who's Back? on Dec 16, 2011 3:31 PM EST reply actions
Imagine
Girardi-McD
Sauer-Staal
Erixon-Del Zotto
by Section 336 on Dec 16, 2011 4:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Almost too good to be true, with the amount of shutdown capability on the first two pairs, Erixon and DZ could really push the offensive game
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 16, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Sweet pairings, but...
No way Torts puts the two youngsters out there together, even with MDZ’s improved game
best defense in the league with those pairings.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Dec 16, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
What if Staal and Sauer never play again this season?
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 6:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
then, best defense in the league with those pairings next season.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Dec 16, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
What if they never play in the NHL again?
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 6:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
then we wouldn’t have the best defensive pairings in the league? are you playing devil’s advocate or just being a pain in the ass?
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Dec 16, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Little of both. I think next year you are balls on accurate. I’m more worried about the interim.
Not sure this is a playoff team without Staal/Sauer for remainder of season and not making a move to upgrade.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 7:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was tempting to say something passive-aggressive and annoying just to get you tit for tat but I’ll just stick with what I was originally going to say which was… this is a playoff team as it stands, but not a get passed the first round or second round playoff team without Staal/Sauer.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Dec 16, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
The difference between 8th or 9th is always close.
I have fading belief in Girardi and McD holding up with these minutes. As season goes on playing guys like Woywitka Eminger, and Stralman will catch up.
Love MDZs development and Erixon long term potential (but not this season).
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 7:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the minutes already seem to be catching up to them. I’m feeling great about MDZ right now. I hope we get Staal back this season : /
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Dec 16, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Bryan McCabe
Still not signed. Veteran D man we know and He knows us. Yes, he’s slowed down, but he’s still better than Woywitka or Stralman. Take a flyer on him at 1 mil from here on out.
Anyone notice Rangers getting pushed around lately?
Even beyond the past two losses and Toronto game, this team doesn’t have great size and has been getting worked over quite a bit. Dubinsky should be noticeable like Backes..the D doesn’t have anyone that instills fear.
I’m not saying they need Deveaux..but i would swap Rupp for EC these next two games.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 6:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Fudgie not missing a beat without him. Up 5-2 in 2nd. Audi Marshmellow with two goals. Thuresson and Bell also on board.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 8:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Playing Bridgeport
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Dec 16, 2011 8:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Woywitka needs to go
I don’t know why they don’t bring up erixon. Woywitka can’t even seem to clear the puck when needed. He also doesnt look for breakout passes, but just pushes puck around boards. And why does he feel the need to push puck-carriers he’s attempting to defend with his gloves? What is he trying to accomplish doing that?
I think stralman has been playing better
by Conway on Dec 16, 2011 8:40 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Is there enough cap space for Cigar Man to make a move?
even to bring up Wade Redden? good grief, they could ask Leetch to come out of retirement at this point
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