Log jam of forwards; acquiring a defenseman?
by callahanisgod on Dec 18, 2011 11:59 AM EST
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PrintThe Rangers have an improved powerplay, a revived Marian Garborik, but are not necessarily a 'scoring team.' They still have trouble scoring at times, as scene by a recent two-game losing streak against Dallas and St. Louis. But, despite all of that, the Rangers have a large number of forwards and certainly depth, or 'expendable players. Let me explain.
There are players that lead our offense that are not for sale. Those include Gaborik, Derek Stepan, Artem Anisimov, Brad Richards, Ryan Callahan, and Brandon Dubinsky (yes Dubinsky, don't care how he's been, we just committed to this guy), and IMO, Carl Haeglin (he really seems like a quick, talented player, and an 'intangible' teams need in a cup run). But that's seven forwards, enough for two plus line. Then you have guys like Brandon Prust and Mike Rupp; tough guys (Prust does more, like kill penalties) but have their niche on a roster. Add those two the list above, and you're at nine, enough to fill out three lines. I'm going to throw Ruslan Fedotenko into this top group because I do not see him as much of a trade asset, or a player to be moved. But now, let's look at this group of players, and consider some other things, long-term.
Brian Boyle
Eric Christensen
Sean Avery
Mats Zuccarello-Aasen
Wojtek Wolski
John Mitchell
Above is a group of six players that I feel excluding Avery, could garner us some value in return if we do look to make a move for a defenseman. Normally, I am not a proponent for trading for a veteran player, or a player with an expiring contract, and renting them for half a season. However, considering that above group is so large, and, we have guys on the horizon like Christian Thomas, Chris Kreider, and others, that second group may not have a future beyond the 2012 season anyway. I don't think anyone looks at the Bryan McCabe move from last season as something that dramatically altered the outcome of our season, but then again, we were not including the level of pieces I just listed. I don't know, just a thought. Especially with Steve Eminger's situation looking bleak, and with two of our top defensemen down with concussions, an injury who's timetable is impossible to predict.
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No deal the rangers would try to get would be fair because all teams know of our situation
sometimes doing nothing is the best option
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by RichieToGabbySCORE on Dec 18, 2011 12:22 PM EST reply actions
its funny,during the offseason all of the talks were about the logjam of you defensman and looking to move one for more defensive depth… oh rangers
That was when we were assuming Staal and Sauer were gonna be in the lineup. You’d be hard pressed to find a team that’s missing two top-four defenseman and doesn’t need any help replacing them.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 18, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I really dont see us making a move this year
we really dont have the chips to deal anyway
maybe a minor move like we did with Eminger a few years back or a Stralman like move but I dont see anything big happening
just be thankful we have Erixon and maybe another young dman steps up from the pack
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RDD=REAL DEAL DEMARCO!!!!
by Archie Barberio on Dec 18, 2011 2:32 PM EST reply actions
I would seriously see if Weber or Suter become available in Nashville. they are on the playoff bubble right now with Yutes and Kings lurking. If they are out at the trade deadline they may make a move and the Rangers should be asking at that point.
Why trade for weber when there is a shot of signing him in the upcoming off season? Nashville’s internal cap won’t give them a good shot of giving weber the $$$ he wants.
because if they can’t sign Weber or don’t want to sign Weber then they will trade him to get something for him. If they keep him through the trade deadline then they are going all out to sign him at season’s end. it would be dumb not to get a boatload of players for him if they are going to lose him anyway. BR put the kabosh on a trade to the Rangers because he didn’t want the Rangers giving up assets since he knew he was coming here anyway but the point is the Rangers were willing to get him last year.
Richards didn’t stop the trade because of the rangers having to give up players… the rangers knew their situation and weren’t going to give up anything more than a few picks and lower level prospects at most… dallas was asking for staal dubi cally and picks… nobody in their right mind would do that… richards basically said he wasn’t going to accept a trade to anybody but the rangers…
@clalicata17
that’s not what BR said. You know something different? He said that to Brooks in an interview. And it makes sense. If you’re going to sign here anyway why would you want the team to trade assets?
You can go back in the BB archives and check the fifty different articles that ended up covering the potential trade. In the end it came down to Dallas asking for too much.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 19, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
just going by what BR said very recently when he talked about coming to NY and how different it was here. in any case he’s here now which is a good thing.
Sounds a little sketchy to me, just cause you are not allowed to discuss contracts in any terms with another teams property. So it would be weird for him to say to NY not to waste their time because he’ll just sign with them in the offseason because they shouldn’t have been talking at all.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 19, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
word gets around. I was told by a very good source in the know that Torts and BR spoke all last year during the season. there are ways.
he would never have said something like that… it would be tampering as Zuppa alluded to… could it have happen… yes… but there was always the inclination that richards was going to sign with the rangers and the rangers weren’t going to make a trade for him to lose essential pieces… thats more of a common sense idea than a fact…
@clalicata17
Because Weber is an RFA. If you offer him the right salary, you’ve essentially traded Nashville 4 1sts (as it is, if it’s reasonable, Nashville matches).
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by red army line on Dec 18, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Weber is an RFA and would cost 4 1st’s. Wolski is injured and untradable. Nobody wants Avery……Boyle and EC have little if any value, MZA is a chip as is Mitchell. You have guys like Valentanko, who likely will never make the team, McIIrath, who I would give up in a Webertrade and others, who arguably have more value than the 6 mentioned.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Boyle will have some value as a 3rd/4th line guy. Not a primary piece by any means, but he’s decent defensively and has some offensive upside (less than what he gave last year, more than he’s done this year). He’d actually fit in fairly well with the way Nashville deploys their forwards.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 19, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I would love to have Weber, but cap wise it probably would be a bad idea. He’s still an RFA next year but I don’t see him getting a contract for less than 8 million/yr.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 18, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
From Spector Hockey:
THE TENNESSEAN: Josh Cooper interview Predators GM David Poile regarding speculation he was talking trade with the Philadelphia Flyers, as rumor has it they could target either Shea Weber or Ryan Suter as possible replacements for Chris Pronger, who’s out for the rest of the season and the playoffs to post-concussion syndrome. Poile points out Monday (December 19th) is the start of the holiday trade freeze, and said he has no plans to make any moves, noting no team is going to trade a top player for a draft choice.
CBC.CA: At the end of the "Hotstove" segment on last night’s Hockey Night in Canada telecast, Elliotte Friedman said he spoke with Poile, who said he’s not trading Weber or Suter until the trade deadline at the earliest, and if they’re in the playoffs at that time, he’s not moving them.
SPECTOR’S NOTE: Which is what I’ve been suggesting for weeks.
this says what I just said. if they’re out of it someone will go. if not then they probably stay unless they know they can’t sign both of them at the trade deadline.
I was just saying I don’t think it would be a good idea to trade for Weber from a Rangers perspective, not that it wasn’t plausible he’d be traded.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 18, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
What’s a “yute”?
R.I.P Derek
Rangers FTW!
by BleedsRangerBlue on Dec 19, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
I, for one, don't see them giving up the "dead weight"
for JUST a defenseman. If anything should arise, you might see this team get both a forward and a defenseman in a blockbuster. One that comes to mind would be:
Wolski ($3.8m), Boyle ($1.7m), Avery ($1.94m) plus a third round pick to Edmonton for Gagner ($2.28m) and Whitney ($4m).
OR
The same threesome plus a first and fourth to Washington for Semin ($6.7m) and Alzner ($1.29m).
The Ryan deal could resurrect; but I suspect that in order for that to happen, the Rangers would have to add two or three picks. It’s a risk, but I personally believe Ryan ($5.1m) is worth it…far more than either in the two other proposals. And the defenseman I’d look to bring back in his deal would be Beauchamin ($3.8m), who I could flip before or at either the All-Star Break, or at the deadline for another forward once Staal returns.
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
"I'm a doctor, not a barber, Jim." Dr. McCoy to Captain Kirk
"Thanks, Chris. Enjoy your retirement."
To get quality players, you need to give quality, not quanity(unless picks) in return. No one wants Avery, it was quite apparent when he passed through Re-Entry Waivers. Wolski hasnt shown any teams he can do anything yet, and the only team I see him going on is someone looking for extra scoring at trade deadline because his contract is up. The only reason a team would want Boyle is if they need depth and pk, but he’s not the base for any trade.
by tommydrum33 on Dec 19, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Those 2 trades favor the Rangers, way to much. No way either team does that. We’re trading our scraps for legit players. That’s not how it works haha.. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rangers went after one of those trades (Or something similar) but they’ll have to give up more.
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by NYRangerFan718 on Dec 19, 2011 3:38 AM EST up reply actions
Ah, yes, the doubters..
I mentioned during the last Bobby Ryan speculations, that you’d better know all of the facts about players when drawing up trade scenarios.
Look at all the facts, Brethren.
All of the team I’ve mentioned have one thing in common…they are currently sinking ships themselves. They need to bail out weight (cap room) as well as water (good players who are showing they don’t fit in their teams’ systems).
For the Rangers, these players you’ve referred to as “scraps”, mean cap relief long term; and, as veteran depth in the cases of Anaheim and Washington (a nice problem to have come playoff time).
Don’t shrug at deal proposals without reading the whole picture, boys.
It’s all about perception.
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
"I'm a doctor, not a barber, Jim." Dr. McCoy to Captain Kirk
"Thanks, Chris. Enjoy your retirement."
by Danz10 on Dec 19, 2011 1:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, about that.
Yes, teams like that will want expiring contracts and such.
They’re also going to want actual talent to replace what they gave away. You can have Wolski, Boyle, or Avery in a trade, but that’s not going to be sufficient return. You have to include either roster players and/or NHL-ready prospects for people to take your jetsam.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 19, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah those type of chips, IF you can trade them at all, are going to return a Woywitka-level defenseman.
When it comes to acquiring young talent, I feel like the best player at the time of the trade needs to be the veteran (that is, to get Alzner or Gagner, the Rangers would need to give up the better player right now).
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by red army line on Dec 19, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Boyle would draw better than a Woywitka-type of defenseman, by himself. Wolski has been eyed by a number of GMs, and he could bring more than you think. And Avery, whom was passed up as a waiver, is a better trade candidate because then they don’t inherit the trade clause.
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
"I'm a doctor, not a barber, Jim." Dr. McCoy to Captain Kirk
"Thanks, Chris. Enjoy your retirement."
by Danz10 on Dec 20, 2011 6:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hey, George...
You’re alive! How the hell are you?
Okay, your point stands to reason. I just think as expiring contracts go, teams see their own bottom line as well, and make decisions…some, brash, and others, idiotic.
You just never know.
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
"I'm a doctor, not a barber, Jim." Dr. McCoy to Captain Kirk
"Thanks, Chris. Enjoy your retirement."
by Danz10 on Dec 20, 2011 6:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You’re kidding yourself if think the Caps are trading away Alzner without getting an NHL ready defenseman in return. He’s 23 years old and probably their best defensive d-men, so to even if you offered Wolski/Boyle/Avery straight up for Alzner the Caps probably would not take it, since Boyle is the only person that would be of significant value to a team with a roster like the Caps.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Dec 19, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I would love the Washington trade only because I would laugh my ass off when the announcer says….“Crosby on his knee’s with Semin all over his back.” Somebody Rec this plz.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Damn, Lmao, Earthy!!
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
"I'm a doctor, not a barber, Jim." Dr. McCoy to Captain Kirk
"Thanks, Chris. Enjoy your retirement."
by Danz10 on Dec 19, 2011 1:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A better idea then just hoping to trade a bunch of scraps for a player we can use, is trying to use some of those scaps, and our glut of prospects in a deal with one of our roster players to upgrade a position in the top of our lineup. Pursuing Weber is exactly that type of situation, but Nashville needs to be interested in moving him. We can’t just expect Glen to trade crap for gold though. You’ve gotta give to get.
The scouts really need to be letting us know if what we’re seeing from these young guys is real, or if they’re playing above their heads. Hagelin has been playing great recently, is that what we should expect, or should we try to sell high? McD has seemed to slip a bit of late, is it going to get better, or could it get worse. Is this the real MDZ? We’ve had good runs with young players before, only to watch to fade out (usually after we let them go) into the minors or Europe. If these kids are real, then maybe the guys behind them are the expendable one, if they’re above their heads, lets use their inflated value to sure up other parts of our game.
If the only trades we’re going to make are with the scrap heap guys, and low level prospects, then I think we should limit ourselves to the teams that our out of the race, and pieces they can’t afford, or are going to lose anyway. In the West you’re probably looking at Anaheim, Calgary, Edmonton, Columbus and Colorado right now. In the East, Tampa, MTL, Isles, and Carolina. I could see Ana, Tampa, or MTL looking to make a move to get back on track, while Columbus and Carolina would probably be anxious to
“sell” and cut loses on the season. The rest of them are kind of already rebuilding, and wouldn’t have much to offer us, atleast that they are willing to part with.
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