Rangers Analysis: Should The Rangers Buy At The Deadline?
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 6:00 AM EST
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In response to earthworm's fanpost asking this very question I figured that I would weigh in on the discussion.
It's inevitable, with the trade deadline only two weeks away, that we're going to be bombarded with trade rumors over that time-span. In fact, the first dominos have already tipped over, with the Philadelphia Flyers trading their 1st and 3rd round selections to the Toronto Maple Leafs for Kris Versteeg.
But that's neither here nor there, what will the Rangers be doing at the deadline?
Well, to answer that question we need to look at the precarious perch the Rangers currently sit in with their 64 points. The Rangers are in seventh place, four points clear of Atlanta, who reside in ninth place. The Rangers are also four points away from fifth place which is held by Montreal with 68 points.
It's safe to say that after missing the playoff last year, the Rangers are not going to sit pat at the deadline. A strategy used last year by Glen Sather that saw the Rangers miss the playoffs by a single point, and only earn a 10th overall draft pick.
So it's obvious that last year's strategy didn't work.
But with that being said, I think that Sather's current strategy is brilliant.
Join me after the jump for more.
Sather has only made one trade this season, but it was by far one of the better trades made this year. Michael Rozsival was 32-years-old, declining from his hot start to the year and hasn't been anything special for the Phoenix Coyotes in his time there this season. He has one goal in nine games and is a -3.
Wojtek Wolski, on the other hand, has three goals and seven assists for 10 points in 15 games while posting a +5. Wolski is pointing the power play, playing 16 minutes a night (including 2:36 a game on the power play) and has been a big part of the offense since he joined. The best part? He's only 24-years-old and might be a big part of this team in the future.
Anyway, back to the question at hand. Should the Rangers be buyers at the deadline?
Yes, I think they should, but only for the right deal.
Sather has made it painfully obvious that he's no longer in the market for older veterans who will cost precious draft picks and prospects. The only place that I can honestly see the Rangers making a veteran move would be at defense, and even so it would only be one player. So what Sather should be in the market for, is younger players with tons of upside.
Now, it's not like these types of deals grow on trees. Look at what the Flyers had to give up to get Versteeg (1st and 3rd round picks) compared to what the Rangers gave up to get Wolski (Rozsival). Wolski is the same age as Verteeg, has played in 148 more NHL games, and has scored 101 more NHL points. Wolski's best season (a 65-point performance) is well beyond Versteeg's 53 point performance. Of course, Versteeg is a Stanley Cup champion, so that factor in as well.
I'm not saying that Versteeg is a poor player, not even close. What I am saying, is that that deals for young players with miles of upside usually cost a hell of a lot more than Rozsival.
The Wolski deal was another example of one of the areas in which Sather thrives, mid-season trades. Sather's also been pretty good at the deadline, which is what we're looking at now.
So at the end of the day, if no "Wolski-like" deals are on the table, I would have no problem with the Rangers standing pat at the deadline.
What you also have to understand is that the Rangers have a wealth of talent waiting in the wings.
Chris Kreider just won the MVP of the Beanpot.
Christian Thomas is second in the OHL with 42 goals (he had 41 all of last year) and he still has 15 games left to play. Oh he's also added 33 assists to give him 75 points in 51 games, good for eighth in total scoring in the OHL. I'll admit I was upset with this pick when it first happened, I'm loving it now. (Note to self, never doubt Gordie Clark ever again).
Evgeny Grachev seems to be waking up in the AHL and might have finally found his game. Dylan McIlrath is making strides for Moose Jaw, and Ryan McDonagh is looking better and better every game in the NHL.
If Sather did nothing at the deadline it would be yet another vote of confidence to file into the "we're sticking to the youth" plan that the Rangers are employing.
If he does do something, let's hope it's Wolski-like.
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Youth is the Key
They really need to stick with this youth movement. Adding a high price vet right now seems like a mistake. The Wolski deal was a perfect fit for this team, adding much needed goal scoring. I would much rather see the Rangers move Matt Gilroy for someone like Blake Wheeler. Both players could use a change of scenery & the Rangers could use the scoring potential on the wing. Wheeler still has a huge upside, is only 24, and has a cap hit of $2.2 Million.
i dont know much about Wheeler...
but i have a buddy who’s a Bruins fan…and he personally thinks Wheeler is someone that will be dealt this year….so that is always a possibility. Especially with that move for Chris Kelly last night…it definitely seems like Boston is making moves for a bigger trade in the near future….cuz i think it’s safe to say no one in Boston likes Chris Kelly and don’t exactly understand what purpose he’s going to server for the team.
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 16, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yes please
If the Bruins would trade Blake Wheeler for either of the Rangers offensive defensemen, Sather should swallow the cigar in his reckless pursuit to the phone
Cautious buyers. But with the market being what it is it’s doubtful they will get anyone on the cheap so stay the course. The only scenario I see is if the Rangers’ hand is forced with the Richards situation meaning that a team like Boston tries to trade for him and tries to sign him long-term. But they have a huge chip that the Rangers would be hard-pressed to top: Toronto’s #1 pick which will be a very high pick. At that point either Dubi or Cally would have to go in the trade and I don’t think the Rangers do that for a 31 year old, even for Richards.
If you can make a harmless deal for a D man
Be real nice if they could get a PP QB like Kaberle (who’s been rumored to be traded every year since the dawn of time).
Other than that, just stick with what you got. I’ve said it before, but the best deal we have is already here and that’s Gaborik. Who really knows why he’s been what he has been this season, but the skating is still there and since Prospal’s been back he’s been getting a lot of chances.
He snaps out of it, we’re not only in the playoffs but at worst a really tough out for someone.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
a lot of people want nothign to do with Kaberle....
and i sort of agree…cuz it certainly wouldnt be a “harmless deal”…
but that being said…he is in the top 20 in assists (3G, 34A).
22 on PP which is good for 2nd in the league behind Marty Stl Louis and all on that awful Leafs team.
that certainly does look someone that could be helpful as a PP QB if thats really what we need….though it does seem crashing the net and/or just setting someone up there did wonders against Pitt as im sure you all know…so maybe a PP QB isnt what we need since our D-men did just fine getting those shots to the front of the net against a supposed great defense…this could contiune to work if we keep from shooting right into the defenders legs 95% like we have done most of the season.
anyhow…the reason that probably wouldnt work is cuz he’d cost way more than we want to give up.
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 16, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
also wanted to mention that....
we don’t have a single player in the top 50 for assists, nevermind PPA…
so i really dont think he’d hurt us…aside from the fact we’d have to give up a bunch and his age….
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 16, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
just read this about kaberle...
cuz we cant forget he has a NTC….
“The potential of the Maple Leafs trading defenceman Tomas Kaberle to the Bruins has apparently taken another step. Sportsnet, citing sources, is reporting that Kaberle has granted the Leafs permission to speak to only one team – that being the Bruins – regarding a potential trade. Kaberle has previously declined to waive his no-trade clause to facilitate a trade. He has not waived that clause yet but has indicated he would look favourably on a trade to Boston.”
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 16, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
with chris neil going boston for a 2nd round pick
I’d be wary observers at the deadline. While we do need a good veteran presence on d, I’d rather not send any combination of picks and prospects. Also, I’d be very cautious of getting any player with a contract that goes beyond 2013 with the current CBA set to expire and those contracts could come back to bite teams
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by Kevin Power on Feb 16, 2011 7:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
thanks
I meant chris kelly
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
by Kevin Power on Feb 16, 2011 8:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
No rentals, only moves that make the team better next year and beyond.
I’d rather miss the playoffs with the group of guys on the team right now and get them experience down the stretch versus pulling a trade for a rental forward and defenseman that forces younger players to watch from the pressbox. The only caveat to this being if the Devils continue there run at the 7th or 8th seed, then the gloves are off and I’m okay with moving any combination of draft picks and 2nd tier prospects to make sure fatty pants the sister banger is eating double stuff oreos watching the playoffs from home come April.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Feb 16, 2011 8:06 AM EST reply actions
I just don't think
There’s going to be any players available, or available at a reasonable price that will improve the Rangers substantially from what they are now. Guys that barely crack 50 points are getting moved for first round picks. The Rangers don’t need another one of those, they need 70-80 point players. And I agree that Wolski for Rozi was a very smart deal. Even if Wolski’s dropped off in play it still opened the door for McDonagh and boosted the overall skill level of the forwards after so many guys were getting injured.
At the beginning of the year I didn’t think they were a playoff team, but now I’d rather them make the playoffs and get the experience for some of the younger guys. Even if Cally, Dubi and Staal have been there before, this would be their first time as the leaders of the team. Winning a round would be nice, upsetting a top seed would be even better but at least get guys like Stepan, Zuccs and McDonagh a sample of the post-season.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 16, 2011 8:49 AM EST reply actions
And that's the point
if there aren’t Wolski-like deals, then who cares?
We have a young enough team that if they grow through this year, we’ll be MUCH better next year.
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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Question...
This is a question WAY more then a comment but, if Philly were to put Zherdev on waivers, should the Rangers try to claim him?
no
the rangers don’t need more zherdev-esque “very skilled” players that are streaky and usually disappoint (not to mention probably won’t fit in with the grind it out mentality of this team)
and the most zherdev-esque player would, i believe, be zherdev himself (im no philosophy major lol)
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by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Feb 16, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Of course
But there is no way the Flyers would ever do that
by dar9898 on Feb 16, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also
if the Flyers put Zherdev on waivers, there’d be a line of teams trying to claim him for their stretch runs
A line of teams trying to claim Nik Zherdev? You must be kidding. The whole league had a shot at Nikky Dearest after the Rangers walked away from his arbitration-awarded salary of $3.5 million, and there were no takers at that number.
Not only that but Zherdev was a free agent in the offseason; again, the entire NHL had a chance to sign him for less money and only the Flyers took the bait. People in the NHL aren’t stupid—Z is a lousy player, despite having some serious levels of offensive skill. Don’t forget how awful Zherdev was in the second half of his season with the Rangers….and he was even worse in the playoffs for the Rangers.
Any team making a move for Zherdev would have to be a team devastated by injuries and in desperate need of a cheap, skilled, disinterested forward to fill out their roster.
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by greifi griffie on Feb 16, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Zherdev is a lousy player?
He’s a 60 point per season guy. And his cap hit for the season is only $2M. He’d cost a team at most $500k to rent. So yes, there would be a line of teams to rent a proven scorer who is cheap.
But does his jam match our jam?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot" Evgeny Nabakov on Garth Snow
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
by Kevin Power on Feb 16, 2011 10:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well not in the same way that Boll-jam*
goes with everything: baguettes, peanut butter, potato chips, you name it
*not to be confused with boll weevils
He does have 15 goals so far this year
but he also only has 4 assists on a very high scoring team. I honestly think that time in the KHL was detrimental to him.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
The Flyers have limited his playing time
He hasn’t played on a top 3 line most of the year. With the Flyers depth, they haven’t really even needed him.
But that explains his counting stat totals.
I'm not saying not to take him is he comes across
he’s a free 20-goal scorer you would be insane not to, what I am saying is that I don’t think he has nearly as much upside as he once did.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Disagree
I think he has just as much upside as ever. Half a season of a fourth line role shouldn’t negate several years of history
I guess we'll have to wait till he goes somewhere else
or if he stays with the Flyers and see’s more time with them next season. I’m not saying he’s a bad player, or that he’s “lost it,” I just don’t think he’s as dangerous as he was when he was on the Rangers.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
He's also on an amazing team
that needs to be factored in as well.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
That's huge
He’s not even secondary scoring for the Flyers, so there’s no pressure on him. As the pressure goes up, it seems his production goes down (see playoffs w NYR).
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You're right Joe
he is on the most talented team in the league, save the goaltending, he should have shown up to more games
by louielounz1 on Feb 16, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Looking at his game log
There’s been a number of games where he’s gotten very little ice time (< 10 mins). I know he’s been a healthy scratch a number of games as well, around 8 or 9.
I think with him it’s always about what goes on between his ears because the physical skill is undeniable.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 16, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
He’s 7th on the team at even strength in P/60 (1.90), behind Giroux, Carter, Briere, Leino, Hartnell, and Richards. That’d be 5th on the Rangers (Gaborik, Dubinsky, Wolski, Stepan)
He’s actually 7th in the entire league (min. 20 gp) in goals/60, behind only Crosby, Stafford, Stamkos, Cleary, Briere, and Grabner. (just ahead of Nash & Lucic)
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
But are some of those numbers skewed by the games where he gets benched for long stretches of time? Would that suggest “when he’s on, he’s on but when he’s not he’s useless or a liability”? How are his QualComp numbers?
I’m a huge believer in underlying stats to gauge a player’s performance but I’d be very surprised to find any coach or GM in the league that would value Zherdev’s play as highly as his peer group in the points or goals per 60 rankings.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 16, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I’m obviously not implying he’s as good as those players by any stretch, merely pointing out the production level he’s generated this year.
His competition and teammate levels are both quite low (as you’d expect given the depth ahead of him). He’s about 50% on his offensive zone starts, so no boost there. Relative to the rest of his team, the Flyers out shoot more with him on ice than any other Flyer.
So basically he’s a 3rd/4th liner, playing 3rd/4th line competition, and absolutely destroying it. You wouldn’t sign him to be the 60 point, front line player. You’d sign him as depth to fill out the bottom of your roster.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Therein lies the rub
His talent screams top 6 player and I’m sure teams will be tempted to put him in that type of role. The Flyers can afford to keep him lower on the depth chart and reap the benefits of his production without sacrificing ice time for their actual top 6 players. But how many teams have the depth to keep him more/less buried on the 3rd/4th line?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 16, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
But how many teams have the depth to keep him more/less buried on the 3rd/4th line?
I don’t think he’s a 3rd/4th liner—he can play 1st or 2nd line, but soft minutes. Dallas, for example, doesn’t go power versus power like Philly, and Richards gets easy minutes. He’d work there, I bet. Washington gives Backstrom and Ovechkin easy minutes, Pittsburgh gives Geno easy minutes (and now those minutes will go to Letestu or someone), etc.
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by red army line on Feb 16, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, this is closer to what I meant than my actual words lol. You play him against other team’s crap, and you won’t be disappointed.
That’s part of the reason he succeeded more under Renney, Renney wouldn’t go power v power if it didn’t favor us. Tortorella goes power v power almost indifferent to the opponent.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
yes he is a lousy player
I disagree with your assessment. Players like Zherdev are not that good—it’s also a stretch to call him a 60 point player, he has only approached that number once and passed it once in six years in the league. Don’t mean to sound like I am nitpicking here but I think he’s a 40 to 50 point guy now at best. He was atrocious in the playoffs for the Rangers in his one season with us, and that can’t be discounted either—when the level of competition steps up he disappears. Despite all-world talent Zherdev couldn’t impress his own country enough to play for the national team in the Olympics either.
And you make your statement about teams lining up to grab Zherdev without much to back it up. His reputation as a talented but lazy and thoughtless hockey player is set in stone these days; even the Flyers don’t care about the guy despite him putting up 15 goals in limited ice time for them. He and his agent have overestimated the level of NHL interest in his services twice in the past three offseasons; in my opinion you are doing the same.
Prole art threat.
by greifi griffie on Feb 16, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Tons of players were atrocious in the playoffs
for the Rangers that year. Singling him out is a bit unfair. And his point per minute pace is in line with a 60 point season… if he were not receiving fourth line ice time. And the Olympics? The Russian team is stacked with elite NHL players and a seemingly mandatory KHL quota.
As George points out, Chris Kelly just went for a 2nd round pick. Zherdev on waivers wouldn’t cost a team any picks. Effectively, he’d be a free hired gun. And there are playoff teams with scoring needs right now or even just roster needs from injuries.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here….the scenario we speak of here may not even happen of course, and I just cannot bring myself to appreciate Zherdev’s game at all after becoming heartily sick of him after watching his lone season as a Ranger. I think he is a worthless player, and any team that has to count on him to produce in clutch situations is bound to be disappointed by him.
His points don’t tell the whole story of his game; they help cover up his deficiencies.
Prole art threat.
by greifi griffie on Feb 16, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure Zherdev is from the Ukraine, that may have something to do with Russia passing him over, right?
HAHA
Oops great point. I completely missed that/and did not know. Ukrainians are not Russian. Zherdev was just as eligible to play for team Russia as he was to play for team USA.
Like Nabokov is from Kazakhstan, but he grew up playing for Russia, and so it remains.
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by red army line on Feb 16, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe a snideness retraction is in order then, eh?
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by greifi griffie on Feb 16, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I’m talking more about your scornful laugh regarding Zherdev and his eligibility for the Russian National team. Here’s a helpful hint—anyone who has Valeri Kharlamov as his icon on SB Nation probably knows who is eligible to play for the Russian National team….
Prole art threat.
by greifi griffie on Feb 16, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I was not laughing at you
If anything, I was face palming myself for missing a detail. And is that Kharmalov? Maybe I should sit closer to my monitor
peace then
Sorry I got me hackles up…yes, it’s a damnably small picture of Kharlamov…probably should get a bigger pic one of these days……
Prole art threat.
by greifi griffie on Feb 16, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
And he was rather pissed off about being passed over for the Russian team (again)….which is pretty funny, since they’ve had little interest in him since he left the Team Russia World Juniors team in 2004 in favor of the NHL.
Prole art threat.
by greifi griffie on Feb 16, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I would not Zherdev because there is no place to put him on our current team and Torts already pretty much proved he won’t tolerate his floating nonsense. I loved the guy when he was here but I cannot see him meshing with the rest of the Rangers and their team philosophy.
Apparently he may be waived, in which case I would claim him and just use him in the remaining games against Philly.
I think I’d claim him, he is at least a better player/more productive player than EC….who by the way is stinking up the joint. So much for being a 1st line center……..can’t beleive people actually thought that.
What stats are ypu looking at to draw your “60 point per season guy” conclusion? He scored 60 points once in his entire career, both in the Russian and pro league combined. He was a 1st or 2nd line player in the KHL last season with 39 points in 52 games and did his disappearing act in THEIR playoffs for one assist in 4 games. What’s the love affair with fans wanting to bring back players who clearly didn’t make the most of their opportunity the first time they were here.
So he’s cheap…I can hear it now, everyone will be screaming he’s taking up a roster spot for a younger player the moment he dogs it on a shift.
The whole league had a shot at Nikky Dearest after the Rangers walked away from his arbitration-awarded salary of $3.5 million, and there were no takers at that number.
While very true, that’s not his number now. In the offseason, he was a year removed from the NHL and more of an unknown quantity, it’s not surprising that he did not draw much interest.
Now, he’s worth $2m, prorated. He’s due $569,892 as of right now, and that number goes down $10753 every day. At that price, someone will take a chance on a guy with 15 goals this year, or 3 more than Chris Kelly who just cost the Bruins a 2nd round pick.
Teams in the Pacific that are all fighting each other, Kings, Stars, Ducks would all fight over him if it only costs cash. Not to mention Pittsburgh, Washington, Nashville, and a few other teams that can afford to roll the dice.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
yeah...
i’m sure they’d like to have him in games against us….even if he doesnt do shit the rest of the year…he’s killed us this year.
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 16, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Zherdev will be a star...
One day Zherdev will be a star, in the over-40 men’s league. He’s lazy and undisciplined, the complete opposite of where the Rangers find themselves. Torts would be screaming at him after 2 shifts.
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Anybody who wants this chump back has a very short memory. Where would he play? Who would sit so he could play? How badly would he infect Gabby? We don’t want to find out the answers to any of these questions. Zherdev will NEVER =be the guy he could be because he is a lazy headcase. STAY AWAY!
i dont want him back at this point as he doesnt fit our style. but lets not forget that he put up 58 points while being “lazy”, a “headcase”, and “not playing the last third of the season”.
take it how you want.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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Wolski
was a GREAT trade, like Joe pointed out the kid is 24 years old
he has NHL experience
has great skills
runs the point on the PP
plays hard
Wolski has a future on this team and i love this kid already
we got Stepan Wolski Zucs McD as are young guys
then we got Boyle Prust Dubi Cally AA Staal who are young but have been around
Kreider looks like the next Stepan
Thomas was a great pick imo, idk who you guys wanted but I remember reading about Thomas when he played with Taylor Hall or Seguin I forget which and how Thomas was a beast on that team
we just need a big time Center, maybe this draft we finally draft one
we have been doing really well in the draft
I thought MDZ was a great pick, but is slowly turning into a bust, hopefully its just a sophomore slump
besides that we drafted Staal Cally Dubi Stepan Kreider McIlrath
future is bright
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2011 9:10 AM EST reply actions
i would LOVE to see stepan and kreider on a line together
ive watched kreider destroy BU (usually live if BC was visiting) for 2 years now, the kid has unbelievable acceleration, loose puck BAM he’s gone
he’s also got good size and always seems to be around the puck, you can tell he has a head for the game
step has unbelievable playmaking ability, great vision, and the quick hands to put them to use
i think combining them on a line next year would be GREAT, maybe add in a (relative) veteran grinder-type player to fill out the line like a prust or a callahan and i think you’ve got a sick line
I listen to Enter Sandman before taking exams. I wear the exact same jersey every Giants game. The Rangers goal song goes off in my head when I achieve small successes in life.
HEN-RIK
by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Feb 16, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
I saw it stated above that we ONLY got the 10th pick overall, that’s a bad thing how?
With our 19th pick the year before we got the person Gordie Clark tabbed as “the fastest guy in the entire draft”.
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
by SimpleManiac on Feb 16, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
yeah man
Kreider looks like a great draft pick
by Archie Barberio on Feb 16, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
To add on to what Joe said, we should be buyers if the deal improves the team for the long-term, like the Wolski deal. No way we should be giving up assets for Brad Richards or any other old vet players. Maybe a lower-round pick for a veteran LD to fill in for MDZ since he should be playing for the Whale, not be a healthy scratch.
Blueshirt Banter *It's just pain.*
A lower round pick is only going to fetch someone like Steve Eminger
And we already have the most Steve Eminger of Steve Emingers
What would it take
To get Jarred Bol!?!?!
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 16, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Golden Rule
Jam for Jam
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
by SimpleManiac on Feb 16, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
then this team should just stand pat
I don’t think a McCabe type player is going to be a “difference maker” anyhow.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Stay the course
Looking at the active roster, I only see a few pieces that I’d be willing to part with. Up front, only EC and Avery (maybe Prospal) would be available. On the backline, MDZ and Gilroy (one or the other) I may be open to deal but only for something worthwhile in the long term in return. Hank and Biron aren’t going anywhere. So unless one of those 3 or 4 guys generates interest, I hope Sather stands pat and lets this team keep rolling with the punches.
Manning lobs it, Burress alone, touchdown New York!
For the empty net, Mark Messier... do you believe it?! Do you believe it?! He said we will win game 6 - he has just picked up the hat trick!
i would want to sell Christensen now, while GM’s are buying high, to open up a spot for someone at the beginning of next year. He has a year on his contract after this, and there are plenty of good prospects in the pipelines. As of next year, if Kreider has a good training camp he will probably be in the lineup. That leaves Hagelin and Werek (assuming they will be signed, they are both likely to be at this point) battling for Christ’s spot. I actually think Hagelin is more nhl ready then Werek, and he could probably use some time in the AHL.
Now that we have Wolski and MZA, Christ is hardly needed in the shootout. He hasn’t been a factor pretty much all year, and I have no reason to think he’ll put it together next year at 28.
Chris Kelly for a second? We can definitely get Christ for a 3rd round pick.
by The Blue Seats on Feb 16, 2011 10:23 AM EST reply actions
I don’t know if they’ll take more than 1 guy straight from juniors/NCAA. It’s a big deal for one of those types of players to make it let alone multiple.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 16, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
We did it last year, with Gilroy and MDZ, and that was on defense, which is even harder to translate to the pros than forward. Besides, if they outplay their competition, Torts will have them on the team. He has been preaching that all year.
by The Blue Seats on Feb 16, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
EC
How about we call him EC rather than Christ. Lord knows he hasn’t been our savior. lol
Agreed though – he’s definitely someone I’d shop.
Manning lobs it, Burress alone, touchdown New York!
For the empty net, Mark Messier... do you believe it?! Do you believe it?! He said we will win game 6 - he has just picked up the hat trick!
Agreed on shopping Christensen
If Sather could sell him while other teams demand is high and bring back a useful prospect or pick(s), I’d be very happy. Christensen is an ok [not amazing] player, but little moves, like selling him to a more desperate GM, help build teams.
Depending on who the GM is
he might even garner 2nd round pick
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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Erik Christensen will not net a second round pick. I’d be surprised if there is any market for him besides going somewhere as part of a larger package.
I was thinking teams like the Pens/Colorado/Red Wings/Kings/Dallas will take him. Good teams with enough cap space to take on a small contract for another year.
by The Blue Seats on Feb 16, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
And did you think that Gomez
would be worth McDonagh? Or that Rozsival was worth Wolski? Or that Kotalik and Higgins were worth Prust and Jokinene?
You NEVER EVER know what a GM might pull the trigger on.
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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Ok well by that logic, yes I suppose ANYTHING could happen. Tthe reason the Canadiens made that deal was because they were desperate for a #1 center and Gomez was seen as a capable NHL player. Prust was a throw in in that deal that is actually being used by the Rangers in a serviceable way. The Coyotes wanted Rozsival because his cap hit is much higher than his salary and that will help them reach the floor. Where would Erik Christensen even fit in on a team that is on the cusp of the playoffs or contention? Hell, where does he even fit in on this team when Fedotenko comes back?
Christensen is an attractive player
because he’s young and he has a very low cap hit. You’re telling me that a team on the cusp looking to add some offense wouldn’t be interested in Christensen? He has nice vision, can score himself, and is OK in his own zone.
And if Sather plays his cards right, prices always go up at the deadline, it’s possible.
If he’s sent elsewhere it will probably be for a third, anything else really isn’t worth it on on behalf.
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"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
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by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yes that is what I am telling you, he only put up points last year because he played with Gaborik and got top line minutes on a crappy Rangers team. He floats through games despite not having the talent to float and remain productive (see Zherdev, Nikolai).
He’s 27 so I would not describe him as “youthful” and he was waived twice just last season. I would say he’s more of a liability than anything else in his own end, which would be fine if the scored but he’s a 1-way forward that has 14 points in 41 games this year. I am not saying he’s the worst player in the NHL but I would happily take any asset in exchange for Christensen, seeing as when Feds comes back he probably will not have a spot on this slightly above average Ranger team.
The only reason why Feds would take Christensen's spot
is because Feds is a Tortorella favorite.
If Gaborik were having a better year, so would Christensen, and other teams (who are in the market for a player like him anyway, since they would be trading for him) would be willing to give up a third for him.
As I said before, I’m not saying he’s worth a second, but at the deadline prices go up, and Sather might be able to squeeze one out of a team.
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"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
The reason Fedotenko would take Christensen’s spot is because he’s better at hockey, and can handle any role given to him, where as Christensen is particularly useless as a bottom 6 forward. I would be shocked if we got a 3rd rounder for Christensen.
Agree with the lopsided natures
of the deals dumping Gomez, Higgins and Kotalik. But the Rozsival for Wolski trade was pretty even. I’d liken it to the deal banishing Brashear to the Thrashers, each team benefiting.
Short-term yes, it's an even trade
Long-term I think we make out like bandits (assuming Wolski re-signs and continues his good play)
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I would rather trade Wolski in the offseason and make room to sign Richards and maintain Cap flexibility. Unless the Rangers don’t think that Grachev or Kreider can make the team.
Wolski has tons of upside
and can be a 65 point player, why trade him? Enough players (Prospal, Fedotenko, Christensen?) won’t be here next year. There will be enough space.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yea he has a ton of upside but he also wore out his welcome in Phoenix in light speed fashion, I would keep Wolski next season if only one of Kreider and Grachev are ready but otherwise I want to give us breathing room when we have to sign guys like Stepan and MDZ. Let’s say Grachev makes the team next year, I would keep Wolski but I would not extend him, our lines could look like this:
Dubi/Richards/Gabby
Wolski/AA/Callahan
Grachev/Stepan/MZA
Avery/Boyle/Prust
Stepan and MDZ
have a long way to go in both development and time before having breathing room to sign them is a concern
Yes, and neither will be arbitration eligible. As you saw with Callahan/Dubinsky/Staal, that means they have no leverage in those negotiations.
Neither will be cost prohibitive after their ELC’s expire.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yes but Stepan could very easily be at a similar rate of production as Claude Giroux and might command a similar contract that he just got without the possibility of arbitration.
Well, if Stepan is going to be a point per game player, you don’t really need to sign Richards, so the $3.75m you’re going to pay him is easy to fit by then.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The MDZ and Stepan examples were just examples of when we may need cap room, I was more saying that I would trade Wolski for assets rather than extending him to increase flexibility down the road in general.
Whether Stepan is going to become a point per game player or not is irrelevant, nobody can know that for sure (Giroux is not a point per game player yet either despite playing on a loaded offense), but Stepan is currently playing in the nhl at a .5 ppg clip at an earlier age than Giroux did. I would predict Slats would push hard for Richards because he cannot predict that Stepan will become a bona-fide #1. Whether anyone thinks he will be a number 1 does not preclude the Rangers from signing Richards, so I am talking about a scenario in which both are on the team in 2 years.
He wore out his welcome in Phoenix
because he wasn’t effective in their defense-first system, and he lost a ton of confidence. Who can blame him?
He’s been great during his time here, and has nearly hit his total point production in 15 games with the Rangers that he had during his 30+ games with Phoenix.
The Wolski-Stepan-Zuccarello line was one of the best lines i’ve seen on this team this season. He cycles well, is a shootout monster and is always in front of the net.
Doesn’t make sense to not bring him back if he continues playing that well.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 16, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
agreed completely
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
He did not just wear out his welcome in Phoenix, he did so in Colorado as well. I am just saying, people around here have a tendency to fall in love with the shiny new Frolov, or Zherdev and then when they do not live up to their talents they want them not only off the Rangers but arrested. I would not be surprised if Wolski a year from now was in a similar situation.
What I find weird is even though Wolski was hated by pretty much all Avs fans, his Corsi showed he was playing decently hard competition and came out on top (if memory serves), and his scoring chance% was best on Colorado (and he was the only guy above 50%), at least through the first half of the season.
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If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Feb 16, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Really…you’re questioning why the Avs’ fans dismissed Corsi? Really?
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
No, it’s how he can appear terrible to everyone and yet actually be the best forward on that team.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Feb 16, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Oilers fans do the same bleep with Penner, and they’re not the only examples.
There are certainly examples on the Rangers and Capitals as well.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
such as?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot" Evgeny Nabakov on Garth Snow
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
by Kevin Power on Feb 16, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Players playing hard competition and overcoming it
But the fans are dismissive of what they did?
Gomez
Dubinsky pre 2011
Anisimov’s gaining steam this year, by next year he should be in the same category (well, he’s already playing hard competition, he’s not quite overcoming it and not quite getting killed yet though)
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
better call up the guys in PHO…
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 16, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
I would trade our other second round pick for McCabe to help the power play. As much as we talk about letting the kids develop, there is something to say for playoff hockey in terms of speeding up development, Claude Giroux tallied 21 points in 23 playoff games last year despite only having 42 points in the regular season, this season he has pretty much kept up the pace he set in the playoffs. If playing in a first round series against someone like the Capitals or the Penguins can give someone like Derek Stepan a similar boost to his game I think that far outweighs a second rounder in the draft.
good point. guys like stepan, sauer, anisimov tyutin werek and thomas have all been second round picks for us. would you give up any of them for 30 games of mccabe?
but i feel that the asking price is too high. if versteeg is going for a 1st and 3rd and clark is going for a 2nd, whats a guy like richards gonna go for?
kreider dubinsky and 2 firsts?
hell no.
id be cautious, and id be willing to sell off guys like eminger gilroy fedotenko and christensen for draft picks. we seem to do great in the draft and if guys like that can go for some 2nd round picks id be more than willing to trade em.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
No I would not give up any of those guys for McCabe but you’re comparing apples to oranges. By that logic you could say that our first round pick is not as valuable as our second round pick because our 1st has not panned out as well historically. This draft is extremely thin and we have two 2nd round picks I would be fine with sending one for McCabe.
From what I’ve read, only the Canadian class is considered weak. The Swedish class in particular is supposed to be the strongest its ever been.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
You're misunderstanding this
You kind of said the same thing in another post. We aren’t saying our 2nd round pick is more valuable or anything because they have panned out better than our 1st round picks have, we’re just saying that the 2nd round pick isn’t a throw away pick, the 2nd round pick is still a good pick and we can get good players there, so let’s not waste it on 30 games of McCabe.
Proudly suffering as a Ranger fan.
"C'mon, vagina is my 3rd favorite hole." -Drama
I understand how valuable a second round pick is. I am saying that Bryan McCabe will help improve our power play which would help us get into the playoffs and maybe get to the second round; and that that playoff experience could prove to be just as valuable and probably more valuable than player X drafted with the 50th overall pick or whatever it ends up being.
Well then I disagree
I don’t feel that Bryan McCabe will make that kind of impact on the team or the PP. I think he can help the PP, but it won’t sky rocket. Plus, I would still take the pick, we generally draft best in rounds 2-4.
Proudly suffering as a Ranger fan.
"C'mon, vagina is my 3rd favorite hole." -Drama
We're way ahead of where anyone thought we would be, right?
Moshe- I’m with you. I would trade Christensen, Feds ( thoughI like his grit) & Emminger. Nothing wrong with Emminger – he ‘s just a middle of the pack defenseman. I’m happy that the Rangers are even in playoff contention given the expectations at the start the season. I dont see us making a Cup run this year so let’s set our sights on next year and beyond. They are playing really well as a very young team- let’s let em mature into a great team in the next year or two. I’ll take some playoff experience this year and be very happy with that.
by RangerFanInChicago on Feb 16, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Completely irrelevant
But since this is the active thread
@NYDNRangers Jesse Spector
Also, Steve Eminger will be scratched tomorrow, with Michael Del Zotto returning to the #NYR lineup.
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Also…Wolski’s out tomorrow, Kris Newbury is being recalled from the Whale.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
That gose to show you haw much trust the Rangers have in there prospecrs that thay re-call a acarear minor liguer ahed of them. Grochev, Dupond, ant the rest of them are going to be realy happy.
grochev and dupond? i heard those guys got some potential.
they might get angry at nerdberry being picked over them.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
haha...
this was funny…the lobster is going to go after them with his furious lobster claws.
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 17, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
shakes head
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 16, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Joe,
Why you loving that Wolski trade so much? Wolski has spent some time on 4th line, has not provided a major spark, and has not looked great to me at all. I personally dont even think hes worth his 3.8 mil salary. Its not that I loved Rozy, its just I am not giddy with Wolski either. A fine player, but not a 4m per player in my opinion. Especially when someone like Zherdev might go on waivers at 2m.
Also, no reason to say never to doubt Gordie Clark. He may have been right and you wrong on the thomas pick but that is far from a certainty as he is still in juniors so those numbers dont mean a ton, and many worried about his size for the NHL game. Additionally even if he was right that is the nature of the draft, some people right some wrong, many wanted Fowler over Mcllrath and at this point it is a no brainer that Fowler has more value. He might be right sometimes, you right others, no one is perfected and everyone is subject so some level of scrutiny.
Finally, in regards to your belief that Christiensen could fetch a 2nd round pick above i say almost no way. Id be completely stunned. Remember, any team could have signed him this summer as he was restricted before the rangers agreed to terms with him. Apparently nobody was too enthralled with him then and absolutely nothing has happened since to change opinions on him. The reality is his defensive game really is detrimental and must improve for him to contribute. My guess is he will be the Rangers healthy scratch before long.
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Feb 16, 2011 12:30 PM EST reply actions
Wolski / Sather
Ahmad made some good points about Wolski. I think he’s playing the PP point more out of default/desperation b/c we lack of a good pointman than anything positive he’s done. And it seems he’s played similarly here as to the other two teams he was on – strong start right after being traded, but then no real jump afterwards. As of right now, the biggest upside to Voytek is that he’s young and he helped us relieve some of Rosival’s salary impact…that’s it for now..
And Joe, for goodness sakes, in the future please, PLEASE don’t use the word “Sather” and "brilliant"" in the same sentence, at least with regard to his NYR tenure. What he’s decided to do this year is exactly what he should have been doing EVERY YEAR at a bare minimum, given his history of drafting/compiling a cash-poor, Edmonton franchise that went on to win 5 Cups in such a short amount of time. In reality, w/Sather’s background when he first came to NY, he should have had the same short and long-term impact GM-wise that Messier did as a player. Imagine what the reaction would have been if Mark had come in with all that talent/Cup experience in ‘91 and DIDN’T deliver w/ in 5 years, let alone 10 years. We would have run him out on a rail like every other FA signing bust we’ve had. The only word I can use to describe Sather’s job this year is “Finally!”…but then again, the deadline still looms so there’s still time for him to revert to his olds ways…hopefuly, not…
you posting shows me how..
ahh nevermind
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
no spelling errors at least.
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 17, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
lmao what does it show you? my birthday? thats cool :)
do you feel honored? did you put that post through spellcheck?
your a penguins fan. go away.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
At the rate we’ve been going, whoever gets hurt between now and then. I’d put my money in Christensen right now though.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 16, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Confirmed Buyers
We have about six player we can part with
1. Matt Gilroy
2. Erik Christensen
3. Steve Eminger
4. Sean Avery
5. Ruslan Fedotenko
6. Vinny Prospal
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by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 16, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions
Just as long as we don’t try to bring in Kovalev.
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That's a low blow
Way to kick someone while he’s down. I’m still deeply hurt about Jim’s last post, when I read “Ottawa Senators trade”, I though this Kovalev drama had finally ended with his trade to the Rangers, but of course, it wasn’t a Rangers trade or a Kovalev trade for that matter, it was just the Sens trading Chris Kelly to Boston
Blueshirt Banter - "In Kovalev We Trust"
by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 16, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
i figured it out.
you are kovalev!!
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Just a joke lol
I’m just not sure why you love Kovalev so much
Proudly suffering as a Ranger fan.
"C'mon, vagina is my 3rd favorite hole." -Drama
Why Gilroy?
I’m just curious as to why you have Gilroy on the top of the list? Whether it’s in a particular order or not… I feel Gilroy has played really well this year. Especially considering he was in the doghouse for the later part of last year. On a team that lacks offense and with the way MDZ’s season has progressed, having Gilroy (only a sophomore himself) as your lone offensive defensemen seems like someone we wouldn’t want to part ways with.
I also don’t think anyone will want Fedo (injured), Prospal (age) or Avery (Avery).
The return on Christensen &/or Eminger would also be slim IMO.
by Mike_from_NNJ on Feb 16, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Gilroy is a free agent after this year and it is almost guaranteed that he will not be back, that is why we all feel he will not be a Ranger after the deadline
Blueshirt Banter - "In Kovalev We Trust"
by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 16, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Avery’s not going anywhere. I’ve said this many times in the threads but it never seems to register with people. Trading Avery would send his entire salary cap to the receiving team, which would be about $4mill. No team is going to want to take on Sean Avery for a $4 mill cap hit. Brett Hull wanted him in Dallas for that kind of money and we all know how that turned out.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Listen Sather
Don’t ever give up hope, you got rid of Gomez and Rozival, so there is always a chance you can dump Avery. I’m really sick of Avery and I can’t bare to have him on this team any longer
Blueshirt Banter - "In Kovalev We Trust"
by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 16, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
avery for kovalev!
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I’d think we’d all take that deal in a heartbeat.
Blueshirt Banter - "In Kovalev We Trust"
by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 17, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
I would simply because Kovalev’s deal expires, and thus frees up Avery’s money a year earlier. No way in fuck Ottawa does though.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
by George E. Ays on Feb 17, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
What do you have against Avery, Prospal and Fedotenko? All of them play their asses off every night and wear their hearts on their sleeves.
dont argue with the troll
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
They may work hard
But Prospal and Feds are gone next year, and hopefully, Avery will to. If not we still ahve one more year of Avery’s embarrassing our team.
Blueshirt Banter - "In Kovalev We Trust"
by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 17, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
He provided a spark in 2006-07
But all the life has been sucked out of him by Torts and it’s really depressing to watch him play. He has only two goals all year, while since the lockout (with the exception of his shortned 2008-09 season) he’s been a double-digit scorer. He’s had a ton of chances but has not been able to capitalize. I know he’s doing ok in the assist department, but we need more from the guy
Blueshirt Banter - "In Kovalev We Trust"
by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 17, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
He also used to play on the PP which Torts has not displayed a willingness to do. The guy plays his ass off every night and never complains about being jerked around or getting minuscule minutes.
Torts and Aves just don't work well together
Avery scored 18 goals in 2006-07 and 15 in 2007-08 despite missing 25 games, pretty good for someone who is universally looked at as a no talent pest. But since his second sting in 2009, Avery has yet to recapture the magic he had from 2006-08 (Much like Kovalev’s second stint with us) The passion and energy just is not what it used to be. I think it has everything to do with Torts not liking and deep down I don’t think Torts even respects Sean Avery.
Blueshirt Banter - "In Kovalev We Trust"
by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 17, 2011 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
stint* perhaps??
yeah avery hasn’t scored many goals……but is that really what we have him for? i think despite him being able to score some goals in the past, i dont think that’s ever been his purpose.
he does play really hard and has done well this year in my opinion…
remember how much time he spent on and off the 4th line this year hardly playing for a good chunk of the season…one of the few people to “get gaby going” this year as well.
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 17, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Avery would or can be moved. even though he is not scoring goals for us, he is valuable to our team style. I’d hate to see Eminger go, I think he us solid and he has been a good soldier. At 27, he’s pretty young……..I’d only make him part of a deal to upgrade D…Tyutin….thats the guy I want back here.
If he does do something, let’s hope it’s Wolski-like.
I have a feeling we made our big trade this year, and it was a great one in terms of the player we got back. I notice some Wolski-hate in this thread. I’d like to point something out to some of you. Wolski has 10 points in 15 games on a team and a system he is brand new to. Yes he is being moved around on the lines and has skated with the fourth line (I think for one game by the way) but the same can be said of (almost) every Ranger forward other than Gaborik, Prospal, Dubinsky, and Callahan. He also happens to be +5 during the worst stretch of the season for the Rangers.
As George pointed out above he is third on the team, behind Dubinsky and Gaborik, with even strength P/60. He has been playing with the team for some of the most frustrating and lowest-scoring games the Rangers have played and he is still producing, not at a great pace mind you, but producing nonetheless.
On top of all of that, he was acquired for Rozsival, someone almost everyone here wanted to get rid of as if he was a football-shaped goiter on their neck. Relax about Wolski. Is he a 70 point guy? No. But he has the talent to be and could be someday.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
I really think Brad Richards is in play now. The party is over in Dallas as they have fallen in the standings and as I have stated earlier are not a serious cup contender this year. The ownership situation is far from being resolved and Richards most certainly walks at the end of the season. As I have stated in the past he is an “asset” that becomes worthless to Dallas after the season thus reducing the value of their club for both sale and trade purposes. (sorry I am a investment banker) If they can’t sign him the only logical course is to trade him. Holding on to him for a cup run is no longer just a risk it is mismanagement of club assets at this point. Unfortunately, it is being reported that he suffered a possible concussion or symptoms last week after a game (Dallas has held him out and not stated nature of injury but the blogs and newspapers are reporting that he was “groggy” after a check )
Michael Del Zotto and a draft pick easily gets this done. Dallas wants a young mobile defenseman and I do not believe that MDZ has the “toughness” aspect to his game that Torts wants from all his D … That was the same knock on Zubov years ago that prompted his departure at a young age to Dallas and they were very happy how that worked out.
Sather … just get it done
Just dont do it !!!!! He is not worth it. Dallas wants to much for him and his contract is to high. Sign him next year as a free agent if thay want to. Rangers are not wining anything this year and thay may not even make the playofs.
I haven’t heard what the Stars demands for him are? Have you? In the past, top players in their final year of contract are usually moved for a top draft pick (1st or 2nd round) or a young player with potential + higher draft pick, or a lower salaried younger player or 3rd line vet, etc…. Getting him now gives the Rangers a chance to see how well he fits FIRST before committing to sign him … unlike Sathers past bumbles where he signs a player in the offseason and realizes (Redden, Drury, etc…) that the player is a not a good fit (Gomez) and is stuck with the salary hit.
Makes good business sense to get him now. MDZ is not going to be the player we had all hoped for. You can’t teach toughness (physical & mental) and defensive instinct in the AHL … You either have it or not .. He does not fit the Rangers style.
I dont think you know for sure that MDZ is not going to fit in our system. Who knows maybe yhe Rangers fire Tortrella and the next coach loves MDZs talent. There is some coaches that like TALENT out there you know !!!! You simpply can not trade talented players just the presant coach dont like them after all “The coaches are hierd to be fierd”
Not MDZ
Matt Gilroy, Steve Eminger, Erik Christensen and a gift card to Red Lobster should do it.
And Zubov was traded to Pittsburgh by the Rangers, he spent one year there before joining the Stars
Blueshirt Banter - "In Kovalev We Trust"
by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 16, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Trading Zubov....
…was one of the worst trades we made. We got Robitaille and Samuelsson? Horrible. Should have kept Zuby.
Thanks, I am aware he went to Pitt first … my point being he was traded because he was considered to be too soft and wound up in Dallas anyway.
Also the addition of a Red Lobster Gift card makes this offer out of the question! But Gilroy and a pick might be interesting as well. I feel the Rangers will at best keep Gilroy or MDZ … but not both. Same type of player. Each of them needs to be paired with a strong defensive type Dman … not together … they have been a horror show as a pair. I still believe that Eminger sits partly because these two are being showcased prior to the trading deadline.
I do not want to see Kaberle or McCabe in a Ranger uniform. That would be a mistake
(what this has to do with a post all about Wolski I don’t know, maybe you just clicked ‘reply’ on what I said for no reason whatsoever)
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Actually Your post starts with “If he does do something, let’s hope it’s Wolski-like” I am responding by saying “Richards Like”
Richards trade wouldn’t be at all Wolski like. The Wolski trade freed up cap space, brought in a younger player, and isn’t a rental player. Richards has the potential to be a younger player, take up more cap than we give up for him, and we certainly aren’t going to get any younger when we deal for him.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Richards has the potential to be a rental player* (not a younger player, I said that twice. Derp)
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Richards is 30 years old and a cup winner (turning 31 in May) To me that means prime of career, veteran leadership and #1 center. We can’t have a team of just young grinders in the early to mid twenties and expect magically that they will develop finess and scoring. Balance is key … scoring/grinding & youth/veterans … this squad doesn’t have it right now and thats why we struggle at times.
31 is not the prime of a hockey player’s career, it’s generally the beginning of the downslope. He also hasn’t played a full season since 2006-2007. Both are significant factors here.
Mind you, I’m not against Richards. I am against trading for him, and I am against anything that runs past 3 years, MAYBE a 4th if it helps cut the cap hit. We don’t need 36+ y.o. Richards killing our cap as the kids that are here now start hitting their primes, or we end up exactly where we have been, holding on and waiting for the crappy contracts to expire.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
by George E. Ays on Feb 17, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t tell guys like Messier, Modano, Yzerman, Chelios, Borque, etc. etc. that at 30/31 they were past their prime. What counts is 1) How good a skater you are 2) conditioning level
Richards at 30 is better than most players at 25 in the NHL
He does now
Most players get worse as they age past 30. Yes those players you mentioned were able to contribute later than most, but for every one of them, there are plenty of other good players, good skaters, and conditioned athletes who declined significantly
I didn't say Richards wasn't good at 30. I said he's not in his prime.
Messier from 25-29 (typically the prime) was around 1.4ppg, peaked at 1.63 (29). He hit 1.35 at 31, but mostly went down to 1.1-1.2 from 30-34, then declined again.
Modano 25-29 around 1.05ppg, peaked at 1.13 (27). He did hold his numbers til 32, then fell off a cliff (down to .58 to 0.70)
Yzerman 25-29 around 1.3-1.4, topped at 1.63 (27). Held around 1.00 from 29-36 before falling off.
Chelios and Bourque and I’ll add Lidstrom aren’t fair comparisons, defenseman generally age better than forwards, they hold their numbers fairly consistently.
So the 3 forwards you mentioned clearly were beyond their primes at 30-31, but still quite effective and better than most players. If you want to put Richards in that class, so be it, but realize that expecting him to be a 80-90 point player at age 34-35 is wishful thinking, especially when accounting for the fact he hasn’t had a full season in 4 years now.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
by George E. Ays on Feb 17, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Amen, I tried debunking a statement in an article that mentioned Kovalchuk “entering his prime” over the summer on another Rangers blog and got killed for suggesting that 27 is the middle of most players primes not the beginning. Then I listed a few of the players you mentioned, most assumed I was saying they would fall off a cliff, not true either but as a fan a more reasonable expectation of a player in their late 20’s into early 30’s was that they don’t decline rapidly.
I look at it this way, many of the premier players in the league have probably been playing at the NHL level since they were 18 or 19 years old, particularly guys that were drafted top 10 in the draft. By their late 20’s they’ve played a decade, plus or minus, in the league. And it’s a safe assumption that as franchise cornerstones they’re logging heavy minutes night in and night out. If they happen to have been on contending teams you can start adding playoff games. If they’ve averaged 8-10 playoff games a year, after a decade that’s another season’s worth of games they’ve put their body through not to mention a longer post-season run means less off-season recovery. Simply put, top players by the time they hit 30 will typically have a lot of wear and tear.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 17, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
george stop using logic and statistics its scaring everyone
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
DUMP FROLOV
I think the only sensible move would be to pick up an experienced D man and the only person worth dumping from the roster now is frolov
Yeah
I’m sure Sather’s phone is ringing off the hook because who doesn’t want a seriously injured player who wont play again this season and was pretty much useless when he did play?
Blueshirt Banter - "In Kovalev We Trust"
by The Last Shall Become First on Feb 17, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Buy Buy Buy
With Crosby hurt and Caps sucking, the east is wide open
Yea and at the end of that wide opening is the Flyers who are at least twice as good as both of those teams.
Agreed, East is not wide open, its a very, very tight race. Especially in the bottom four playoff seeds and the teams in 9th and 10th place.
Flyers are the only dominant team now that the Penguins are so banged up with injuries. Capitals have the goods but not the consistency.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Flyers achilles heal will be in goal … it always is. When playoff hockey starts, its all about grinding and goaltending. Teams like Montreal and Tampa can push the Flyers out come playoff time.
Less than heralded goaltending
Didn’t stop them from advancing to the Finals last year. And I think the Flyers can grind it out with the best of the East.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 17, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Flyers were lucky as much as they were good last year … No Penguins … No Caps … and a visibly tired Canadien team. Also a win in a gutsy 7 game series granted but it did go 7 and lets not forget all of this would not have happened if they didn’t win a skills competition on the last shot of the season. Seen too many “good teams” during the regular season fold like cheap tents during playoffs. Last year was their dream shot .. and they failed. If the Flyers match up against Tampa or Montreal … its pick’em come playoff time .. and I would pick against them based on goaltending alone.
Both Stanley cup teams had below average goaltending last year, they got there because their defense was stacked and they scored goals. The lightnings goaltending situation is no better than the flyers.
by KingHenrik on Feb 17, 2011 10:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Except unlike the Lightning, the Flyers know how to keep the puck out of their net while scoring goals. I know goal differential isn’t the end all-be all, but I can’t take a team too seriously when they have an even or negative goal differential particularly when it offsets the fact that they score so many.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 17, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Their goal differential is what it is because their goaltending stinks. Shot differential seriously favors TB.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
by George E. Ays on Feb 17, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
but dont forget...
future performance is what matters most…forget consistency.
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 17, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
The...
Bruins? They lost Marc Savard and have his LTIR to use and could look at that as an audition for the next year if Savard retires (as most people are suggesting he should) and they let Michael Ryder walk.
The Pens have been major buyers at the deadline the last few years and that has cost them dearly. Besides if Crosby doesn’t come back it wouldn’t make sense getting Richards just for the sake of getting him. Richards and Jordan Staal are not enough to make a Cup run. Crosby/Richards/Staal might be, but Crosby’s status is so far up in the air that it’s probably smarter for them to stand pat and see if they can even field a halfway competitive team before making major acquisitions.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 17, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
yeah...
crosby is gonna sit the rest of the year and playoffs…and when the pens do terribly…he’s going to cry and complain some more about hits to the head and that concussions are bad.
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 17, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
maybe their centers can be crosby/richards/malkin/staal :/ :(
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Bruins are looking for PP Dman ad would be done after they get Kaberle .. probably not interested in replacing Savard with Richards at this point.
Why not? .. perfect insurance policy … Malkin is out for 6-8 months and will not be back until well into next season with ACL & MCL issues .. maybe longer. Crosby is a huge question mark … it could be up to a year .. who knows .. concussions are serious and unpredictable and he is still a kid so they will take no chances with his health or career. At 30 years old, Richards makes a lot of sense as a rental with possible contract option. Are you saying Pens should just “give up” until they get their big guys back? They are showing signs of struggling now
In other news...
Yet another Ranger “great” from the past has been traded for a 5th round pick…
the Montreal Canadiens reacquired defenseman Paul Mara from the Anaheim Ducks, in the wee hours of the night, for a fifth-round pick in 2012.
Mats "Zuke" Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 17, 2011 11:16 AM EST reply actions
I would have liked to see them re acquire Mara. I don’t understand why they let him go in the first place.
by middletownbull on Feb 17, 2011 11:47 AM EST reply actions
How Do I post a Pic?
I don’t have Twitter or Facebook. Is there a way to post a pic on here without them?
by middletownbull on Feb 17, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions
Yes you can! See the little tree picture when you type a post? Click on that and copy paste the URL of your image. If it is an image from your personal computer, you can upload it to a photosharing site like photobucket.com (that is what I use). Hope this helped you out. Let me know how it goes when you try it again.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
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