2nd Biggest Winners of the Trade Deadline: The New York Rangers.
Let me start this with saying that I think the Canucks are the biggest winners today. Amazing team but a pretty rough bottom 6, with the Higgins and Lapierre additions I don't think there is a better constructed team in the league.
You are probably saying why does Coleko think that the Rangers won this deadline? All they got is a throw away from the Maple Leafs. That is exactly why they won! They didnt do anything!! The Rangers are a team on the rebuild and trading away our young players/prospects for a proven veteran at this stage of the teams development would set us back several years and keep us in purgatory for the indefinite future.
People forget that this years team wasn't expected to make the playoff at the start of the season and the success they are experiencing should be seen as a bonus and a great sign of things to come, not a call to mortgage the future to go for it all. Look what has happened with the Colorado Avalanche. Last year they were poised to begin a long rebuilding process but because of a handful of over achieving youngsters and a goalie playing out of his mind they made the playoffs. Nothing wrong with that right? Well yes there is. The Avs unlikely success lead to unrealistic expectations this year and has led them to trade away several key parts of their rebuild. The moves most likely set them back several years, not something I want to see happen to the Rangers.
Do the Rangers need scoring? Yes. Could they use a little more pop on the backend? Yes. Are those things we need now? NO. Why you ask? Because the Rangers still really dont know what they have yet. Like many developing teams the Rangers still don't know what they have, and should be content to stick it out until they know then make moves accordingly. Some of the questions that will be answered over the next few years:
Is Dubinsky a legitimate top 2 line center?
Is Derek Stepan a a top line player?
Is Brian Boyle's season a fluke, or has he emerged as a legitimate force?
Is Henrik a goaltender that can win the big game, or is he a guy who will eventually get critisized for regular season success but falling short in the playoffs. (such as Luongo, Nabokov, etc.)
Is del Zotto going to fulfill his potential, or was his rookie season a flash in the pan?
Is Zuccarello going to blossom into the offensive player he shows flashes of being or disappear like Prucha?
Is Ryan Callahan the second coming of Adam Graves or just a really good grinder?
And the questions on players like Anisimov, Grachev, Mcdonagh,and McIlrath will also be answered over time.
It sounded like del Zotto and Stepan were the 2 main players that teams were asking for today. In my opinion seeing either of those players traded today would of been an absolute nightmare. Stepan seems to be loved by most in the Big Apple at this point but del Zotto is another story. He has struggled this year and quickly has fallen out of favor but people forget he isn't even legally able to drink yet. Last year he was a 19 year old running an NHL power play; pretty impressive stuff. I think he is a player that still can blossom into a Brian Leetch type and not trading him at this deadline will look like one of the franchise's best decisions 5-10 years from now.
As for the player most rumored to be coming to the Rangers, Brad Richards. Not only do I think its great that we didnt get him this deadline, I also think we shouldn't even consider bringing him in this summer. While he is a great player, he is to old and is only effective if placed with the right types of players. Richards struggled his last 2 years with Tampa and his first full year with Dallas and I fear he would also struggle on a team with few offensive options on wing. Richards is primarily a set-up man while the Rangers biggest need is goal scorers. Coming in and asking him to be something he is not is the reason we had to rebuild in the first place, its what the Rangers have been doing for decades. With Stepan, Dubinsky, and Boyle down the middle I think the Rangers will have a very formidable trio down the middle in a few years; but if Stepan and Dubinsky prove to be unable to take the reins as a #1 center man then it should be time to go out and grab one. As for now I wouldn't mind seeing the Rangers grab a little more offense on the wings this summer and see how this team looks so when Drury's contract comes off the books we know exactly what we need.
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Hank at this point is beyond being just a regular season performer. His gold medal and his ’tending in the playoffs (after his first series against the devils) are proof of that.
I dont want this to become another Hank conversation because that is a rather minor point in my post but Luongo also has a gold medal and that hasn’t stopped people questioning his playoff chops. Hank doesn’t yet have a resume to be called a big game goalie but we will know one way or the other in a few years. Fingers crossed that all goes well.
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Lundqvist played arguably the game of his career against the Flyers in game 82 last year, I’d take him over anyone if I had to win one game.
Out of all the goalies in the world you would pick a goalie who has never been past the second round? Mike Milbury is that you?
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So you would trust Michael Leighton in a big spot because the team in front of him could carry them to a cup finals?
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
enough with the logic smurfy :)
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
In defense of Leighton
I saw him play quite a bit when he was ‘Canes property. I’m not saying he’s a guy you wanna build an NHL franchise around, but he’s got some good games in him. When he’s on, he can take you on a little run. Definatly not taking him over Hank, but in our current situation, I wouldn’t mind having him to ride the pine.
but he’s got some good games in him
You could say that about any and every single goalie who’s played, lets say 10 games in the NHL this season. And then some.
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by red army line on Mar 2, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Only commenting Leighton, cause I've seen him play live quite a bit
I like the way he can seems to rise to the occasion. I think there’s some backups who keep around, they play their 15-20 games during the season to rest the starter, and that’s it. They fit they roll well, they’re comfortable coming in a playing a game, then sitting 6 or games before they do it again. Then, there’s other guys, who might be a better fit to take the reigns longterm if your starter goes down. You hope they catch some fire, and ride it as long as you can. I’d put Leighton in the second group.
I’m not saying there’s not other guys who can do the same, just giving my insight on Leighton. Also, Leighton became the odd man out in Philly when he came back from injury, making him, in theory, more available then other, more established back up options, but I also think Philly wouldn’t want to help out a potential playoff opponent with a move like that.
by BuckarooClub on Mar 2, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
RAL got my point better…I wasn’t picking on Leighton, he was the most recent example, so I used his name. I could’ve put about 20 different names there to get the point across.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 2, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
He has never been on team that was higher than the 5th seed in the conference. He basically stole 3 games in the series against the Caps.
yea honestly those 3 games vs the caps alone would make me choose him, sure we lost the series but i didnt think we’d even win a game. If anyone could figure out how to score a goal we were very close to snagging that series, which BTW will probably be our problem, if we make the playoffs, again.
I agree with most if not all of your post. Sather gets an “A” for his performance for his trades, and the trade he didn’t make. Clearly our young players and prospects are untouchable, and that’s as it should be. I also am not sure Richards is the right fit for us. I just worry that in 3-4 years he’ll be another Drury albatross with a history of concussions. He’s a far better player than Drury, but he’s on the wrong side of 30.
Zuccarello has to 'arrive' first in order to pull a Prucha...
…..Zucc is exciting and is showing tons of promise, but remember, Prucha scored 30 goals his first year. I don’t know that Zuccarello is capable of that just yet.
As far as Richards, the intriguing thing about it is this. Since the lockout the Rangers have either had the sniper and not the center, or had the center without the sniper. With Richards in the lineup we have a big time chance to have both center and sniper together.
The Rangers depth with Richards on the team will be greatly strengthened. I think we could go deep into the playoffs with him in under three years, because all the kids we got playing now will be that much more experienced.
This team is only a few pieces away from being legitimate contenders. Richards probably has 3-4 seasons of good hockey left in him.
But there are many IF’s. IF Gaborik recovers from his concussion symptoms and stays healthy…..IF Del Zotto gets out of the funk and matures into the next Zubov (I will not say Leetch yet). IF Sauer and McDonagh continue to improve (something I’m willing to bet on), and obviously IF Boyle springboards from this season into a perennial 25 goal scorer, then I think we can utilize Richards while he still has gas in the tank for some serious playoff runs in 2012, 2013, and 2014.
I agree, we need Richards or a Richards-like center, and a 3-4 year contract would be great. He could teach Stepan a lot. Stepan or AA are a couple years away from being able to step up to the #1 spot. Also, they will probably never reach Richards’ level, he is elite.
Also, I disagree with you coleko, Dubi is not a center, he has played much better at wing.
Prucha
played a lot of PP with Jagr (back when he cared)
Rangers FTW!
by BleedsRangerBlue on Mar 1, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
Prucha’s rookie season was a complete aberration. He will never see 20 goals again if he’s even lucky enough to stay at the NHL level.
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
by SimpleManiac on Mar 1, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Worth noting that there were a ton of PPs in 05-06 and 06-07. 07-11 are more similar.
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by red army line on Mar 2, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Deep into the playoffs means what?
Win 1 series and go 6 or 7 in the 2nd series? Richards does not put us over the top in a 7 game series against Philly & TB and unless Thomas has a tough series, we do not beat Boston.
Just like Prucha, Zuccarello will be out of NHL in 2 ore3 years.
by 1970RangersFan on Mar 3, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
You are correct in stating Zuc hasn’t been as productive as Prucha was in his rookie season but Zuc doesnt have an all-time great feeding him gimme goals like Prucha did. If you put Prucha from his rookie year on the same ice as Zuc, I would take Zuc’s potential all day long.
As for your opinion on Richards complementing Gaborik, I may be closer to agreeing with you if Gaborik spent more time on the ice then he does in the press box. Even with a healthy Gaborik we would be talking about a massive chunk of cap space dumped into 2 players that have a history of inconsistency and injuries, not to mention that it is completely unknown if they would have chemistry. Not a good idea for building a winning team in my opinion. More realistically Richards would be stuck playing with other Ranger wings, and as he has shown in the past his productivity drops dramatically if not paired with the right players.
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coleko....
You’re right about Prucha. I think you or I could have gotten 20 goals playing with number 68.
Unfortunately, my confidence in Gaborik’s health has slipped. Plus, the stretches he did play in this year, he shied away from physical contact. Not good.
Why couldn’t we every pry Pavel Datsyuk off the Red Wings. I love that son of a bitch.
Is Dubinsky a legitimate top 2 line center?
No, he’s a legit top 6 winger.
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Hes a Top Line Winger in my book guy makes everyone around him better.
by CrazyRangerFan on Feb 28, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
One thing I noticed the other night against Tampa, Dubi was like .800 on faceoffs and he took 15 or more. I think hes a better scorer on the wing. If AA doesn’t get it together, I’d like to see dubi and Cally centered by Step. I think that would be a killer line. I think they are all US born?
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
He is a 2nd line player. Be it a wing or a center.
by 1970RangersFan on Mar 3, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
Good read,i agree with everything except
that whole Leetch comparo is very optimistic.
"So Say Goodnight To The Bad Guy"..............Antonio Montana 1983
Agreed...
KingHenriks comparison to Zubov may be a little more realistic but after watching what he was able to do as a 19 year old my expectations for him are pretty high, just have to be patient.
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Excellent Article Coleko!
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by Nick Montemagno on Feb 28, 2011 10:21 PM EST reply actions
Big time comeback by you sir
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Feb 28, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
This is
The most spot on post i’ve ever read on this site. The rangers could potentially have a team in 1-2 years that has heart, discipline and talent. Thats a recipe for championships.
apparently...we managed to get the same grade as the Florida Panthers here...
Mats Zuccarello - Icing goalies' groins since 2010
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This team has balls.
by Master Ov Brutality on Feb 28, 2011 10:47 PM EST reply actions
Disagree
Don’t believe Wysh’s grade matches his written assessment of 3 spot on moves by the Blueshirts:
1. McCabe for a spare draft pick
2. Mitchell for nothing
3. NOT pulling the trigger on Richards
I’d be in the instructors face – if it meant anything.
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
by SimpleManiac on Feb 28, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Well, in this particular situation it would be a moron instructor who normally gives you crap. Puck Daddy isoften a bit of a joke.
he’s a devils fan, and doesnt hide it. So anything from him about the rangers will always be in an unfavorable light.
Agreed
can’t take him seriously as far as his comments on the Rangers at the deadline. We did good for not doing anything and if you add Wolski for Rozi to signing McCabe and not going for Richards, we did great.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Good writing dude.
you seriously changed the first impresion from that notorious thread… :) keep up the good work.
by #17ToTheRafters on Feb 28, 2011 10:58 PM EST reply actions
LOL dont worry Coleko I dont remember it……
by CrazyRangerFan on Feb 28, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
hey, any publicity is good publicity.
the fact is that you’re here now cause you’re a ranger fan. and that’s what makes us all the same. our opinions are what makes us different, which allows the existence of this wonderful place.
and i have to admit that i wouldn’t have the balls to come back so kudos for that. i’ll never mention that thread again! :)
by #17ToTheRafters on Mar 1, 2011 5:17 AM EST up reply actions
Nicely done coleko
Very good take on the deadline. The big deals were before the trade deadline, getting Wolski for Rozi was huge and getting McCabe as our only real ‘deadline deal’ was big too. Giving up Rozi, a 3rd round pick, and Tim Kennedy (someone we could never have used because of the stupid waiver rules) and bringing in Wolski and McCabe is a great exchange on the whole.
Staying with our young assets and our prospects is the best thing the organization can do right now, it shows a commitment to doing things the right way. I am very pleased that Slats decided to spend most of the day doing crossword puzzles and only did one minor-league deal.
@DigDeepNYR
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Hey, I dont post here very often,
But, as a Colorado fan first and a Rangers fan second, your analysis of the Av’s is right. They just off-loaded a crap ton of talent for little in return. Holding on to young talent that will produce is very wise, even in NY.
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EJ is 22 and lost a season to injury. He still has like 5 years before he’ll start nearing his peak, probably. And McClement is awesome defensively.
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by red army line on Mar 2, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Of course, 'NHL on the Fly' calls us 'deadline losers'
Michael Gleich posted this on his site, Bleeding All Blue.
For the record I agree with nothing Roenick says other than that we are a passionate fan base.
http://bleedingallblue.blogspot.com/2011/02/video-nhl-on-fly-calls-rangers-deadline.html
Just saw that on the magic box with the moving pictures!
I understand Roenick’s point of view that we should have added some security but I think we’ve done that with McCabe… security is nice but not at the expense of the future.
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"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
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I never get the sense that these commentators really know anything about what the team has done or what they’re trying to do long term. It’s the ignorance that bothers me.
Well JR was looking at the Rangers situation from the point of view of a veteran player. He understands that you only get so many shots in your career. Of course, JR was lazy and didn’t do his research and note that the Rangers are one of, if not the youngest team in the league so a view of the Rangers roster through a veteran’s perspective isn’t very useful.
I can’t kill JR too much though, he carved out a soft spot in my heart after watching the wonderful work he did during the Olympics putting that blowhard Milbury in his place during the hockey broadcast.
Great read, but you always try to find a way to bash Henrik
"I think a lot of people say you can't do it in New York, but I think New York will accept a hard-working team that's going through the process to become the best they can be, and be good for a while. That's my goal. To be good for a while. Not to sneak in, maybe win a round, and then you're done. That's not what it's all about."-John Tortorella
I don’t think I bashed him at all. I think it is a very fair point, while keeping my feelings of not being a huge fan to myself to avoid the angry hordes of Henrik fans.
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Maybe on the NHL level since he has his fair share of professional level championships, but I saw your earlier post and I’ll leave my opinion on the goalie at that. I did like this article though I felt it addressed almost all issues with this team that were on a lot of fans minds. Articles like this make me look forward games just because there’s something more to lookout for in terms of who can or will step up, how is a team like this going to handle such a young defensive squad, if this team is really in a rebuilding year and competing for the playoffs, then what will this team look like when they mature? Excellent comparison with the Avalanche too, didn’t think of that at all and how a big trade could have potentially sent them down a similar fate.
"I think a lot of people say you can't do it in New York, but I think New York will accept a hard-working team that's going through the process to become the best they can be, and be good for a while. That's my goal. To be good for a while. Not to sneak in, maybe win a round, and then you're done. That's not what it's all about."-John Tortorella
I don’t know if I’d call the Rangers winners but Sather made the right move by not overpaying for a player and sacrificing the youth movement.
I think this season is an assessment year to decide which of the current players will be part of a future cup contending team and what pieces are still missing. Next step will be to evaluate which roles can be filled with prospects and what kind of players the organization doesn’t have in the system. Based on that you can decide what players to trade for and who’s expendable. Let’s hope Sather and his team will make the right decisions but I have a lot faith that they do based on what they’ve done lately.
Fair write up except I think it’s a pretty forgone conclusion that Dubinsky is going to play wing especially if Richards comes and you are forgetting Anisimov in your list of centers.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Mar 1, 2011 7:35 AM EST reply actions
Dubi has bounced around quite a bit and I really can’t see Anisimov making a serious impact. He has shown some flashes but reminds me to much of other under achieving big skilled Euros that can never put it together for one reason of the other.
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Anisimov has improved each of his two seasons on the Rangers and he is only turning 23 in May. A little unfair to paint him with the “underachieving Russian” brush this early in his career. If he was Canadian we wouldn’t even begin to question his potential to be an impact player at this point, we would allow him more time and just say he is still figuring it out.
By the way this is only Artem’s fourth season playing North American pro hockey.
If he was North American i would say the same thing. It just so happens that he is European and his game reminds me very much of players like Oleg Kvasha, Alexei Smirnov, and Nikitta Alexeev, early in their careers. Big and loads of talent but for some reason it just doesn’t seem to mesh.
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Actually, Anisimov reminds me a little bit of Dubi. I mean that in the development sense, last year Dubi was trying to do too much which resulted in him being out of control too often. With another year of experience, he turned into the great contributor that he is today. I think AA tries to do too much also, resulting in holding the puck too long. I think that he is going to have a Dubinksy-like breakout year next year. That said, I do still feel that Stepan is going to be a better center than AA, and that if we pick up a true #1 then we are doing AA no favors by keeping him on the 3rd line for a few years.
I would love to be wrong but I dont see AA having the characteristics of a top 2 line center, and don’t really seeing him being a great fit as a 3rd/4th line center on a winning team either. If I had to guess he will bounce around a bit between lower end teams looking for a solution down the middle before he winds up back in europe.
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I don’t know, to me, AA looks like the prototypical 2nd line center for a great team.
He has already proven he can play solid D. He has a deadly wrist shot and a soft set of hands for such a large man. The last pieces of the puzzle for AA are his skating, which I am sure the Rangers will address this summer and adding some bulk to his 6’4" frame.
He is a 3rd line center. Nothing more.IMO he will never be more then that.
by 1970RangersFan on Mar 3, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Gonna throw up some counterpoints here
People forget that this years team wasn’t expected to make the playoff at the start of the season
I’ll agree that we got some pretty weak forecasts from the talking heads leading into the season, but this was pretty much the same team that was a shoot out away from the playoffs last year. We had a bunch of young players who should all be coming back better then before, we still had Hank between the pipes, and all we couldn’t do much worse then the some of the dry spells we went through in 2009-2010. Everyone (not just saying you) seems to think are doing this against all odds, but really, the only difference between where we are now and where we were last season is due more to Buffalo and NJ playing poorly for stretches then us raising our game.
Look what has happened with the Colorado Avalanche. Last year they were poised to begin a long rebuilding process but because of a handful of over achieving youngsters and a goalie playing out of his mind they made the playoffs. Nothing wrong with that right? Well yes there is. The Avs unlikely success lead to unrealistic expectations this year and has led them to trade away several key parts of their rebuild.
You’re obviously not an Erik Johnson fan. I think the St. Louis-Colorado deal was good, old fashioned, talent for talent. It’s not like Colorado traded strictly for picks/prospects, blowing up the team to start all over. They made a move to bring in what they thought were THE RIGHT pieces to get them where they want to be. They had ALOT of offense, but wanted to shore things up on D, and thought Johnson could be their #1 for the future. Shattenkirk was having a good rookie season, but you never how things will go from their. All around, I think Johnson for Stewart was fair, same with Shattenkirk for a #1.
Do the Rangers need scoring? Yes. Could they use a little more pop on the backend? Yes. Are those things we need now? NO. Why you ask? Because the Rangers still really dont know what they have yet.
But how long do you wait? A bird in hand is worth two in the bush, right? It’s more likely a prospect won’t pan out, then that they will – especially with the top end talent we crave so much. We’ve gotta start making decisions on players while they still have value, and trying to use some of these pieces to get the top the end talent we NEED and isn’t projected to come from within for a few seasons, if it emerges at all. As I’ve said before who’s the last Rangers prospect we let go who we couldn’t have claimed on waivers since? We can’t let ourselves get SO caught up in “homegrown talent” we begin to OVERVALUE players.
Good post, Buck.
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
by SimpleManiac on Mar 1, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
The fact of the matter is, we do not have any ELITE homegrown talent in our system, on the level of a Gaborik or Richards. We have plenty of great players, and we don’t know yet about someone like Kreider, but elite players are few and far between and sometimes you gotta trade for them and work them into your homegrown team.
by BigB22 on Mar 1, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is Dubinsky a legitimate top 2 line center?
Short Answer, No. He’s a wing, he’s producing their, you can’t keep juggling him from spot to spot. However, I agree that he was a very good player as a center, and could have been a nice complement in the middle to an elite winger, the way he was with Jagr as a rookie.
Is Derek Stepan a a top line player?
That seems to be where we are projecting him. I not so sure he’s the #1 we need, and certainly not ready to take the #1 role anytime soon. He’s going to be a good player though. I think we need to start looking hard and Step and AA and deciding which one is projecting as our #2 and move the other while they still have value
Is Brian Boyle’s season a fluke, or has he emerged as a legitimate force?
The work Boyle has put in to be a better player is what earns him a new contract. Even if he isn’t good for 20 a season, if he’s willing to work and grind he can fill the bottom 6 center roll he’s destined for. Anything over 10 he chips in is a plus. The thing with Boyle is HOW MUCH will he cost. While what he’s done is great, we don’t want to overpay for a skill set that can be pretty easily replaced by FA vet.
Is Henrik a goaltender that can win the big game, or is he a guy who will eventually get critisized for regular season success but falling short in the playoffs. (such as Luongo, Nabokov, etc.)
Hank is the LEAST of our worries right now. Hank will keep us in any game, playoffs or regular season, but we need some GOALS to win those games. That’s been the problem for years.
Is del Zotto going to fulfill his potential, or was his rookie season a flash in the pan?
For WHATEVER reason, things aren’t working out with MDZ here. You can blame him, the coaches, the system. We need to come up with a way to develop him that works, or sell while he still have value. At this point, I think the chances of getting a good return for him are better then our system figuring out how to develop him.
Is Zuccarello going to blossom into the offensive player he shows flashes of being or disappear like Prucha?
Zuc has shown too much promise to be compared to Prucha, but that certainly doesn’t make him untouchable.
Is Ryan Callahan the second coming of Adam Graves or just a really good grinder?
Graves was awesome as a Ranger. We wouldn’t have won our last cup without him. He won cups for two teams over a great NHL career. But, at no time in his NHL career, was he “untouchable”.
you make a strong point about del Zotto, Buck… my take is simply that we should give a bit more time. Lets see if this is “sophomore slump”, or poor development, or poor work ethic, or whatever – and within a year, if he hasn’t shown signs of improvement, we take another route.
I realize that his value won’t be nearly as high, but someone will certainly take a chance with a 21 year old puck mover with still a lot of upside. I just don’t think we need to rush him out the door if hasn’t blown us away in his second season as a 20 year old.
As far as the Graves/Cally point – you’re not implying that Cally is untouchable, are you? I don’t think so – there are plenty of guys I’d trade him for. I know Graves set a career high in our cup year, but I just don’t think Cally will ever hit those marks.
I don't think you can compare Zuke to Prucha for the opposite reason.....
I really like Zuke but lets call a spade a spade. What does he have 2 or 3 regulation or OT goals? We love him in the shootout but you can’t covet a guy for that, he’s got to get it done during actual play. Hopefully he can find a way to do that, I think he has the tools and he’s crafty out there.
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What does he have 2 or 3 regulation or OT goals?
3-13-16 in 29 games. He’s shooting 5.3% though, which I can’t imagine is his talent level. The flood gates will open eventually, but he might be only be a 15-35-50 guy, which is a tick under Gionta (except for Gionta’s random 90 point year which he hasn’t come close to replicating)
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
His NHLE is really, really high…nearly point per game.
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by red army line on Mar 2, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, it was.
It wasn’t heavily leaning on goal scoring though, so there’s some chance his assist totals on this team don’t get him up to his NHLE numbers.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 2, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Plus, correct me if my logic is off, since NHLE includes young players in the sample (ones who’d be expected to improve), NHLE should overjudge slightly older guys like MZA.
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by red army line on Mar 2, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I believe that’s correct. There are different numbers for 20 y.o. than 23, the factor doesn’t change all that much though, maybe a couple hundreths.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 2, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
On MDZ
And our other guys for that matter, I just think we need to stop being happy that guys HAVE ability and start figuring out HOW to get them to apply that ability, and WHERE we see them fitting into our big picture. We’ve got the some of the deepest pockets in the league, we can afford to bring the man power, and individual coaches if we need it to get these guys going.
Based on your suggestions, I’d rule out “poor work ethic” for MDZ. This is a kid who spent his summer working with Gary Roberts and has put on 8 pounds of muscle in the last year. That leaves us with “Sophmore Slump” or “Poor Development”. It could be either, more like a combo of both, but either way, that means we’ve got to fix something in our system to make things work with this kid.
Based on your suggestions, I’d rule out "poor work ethic" for MDZ. This is a kid who spent his summer working with Gary Roberts and has put on 8 pounds of muscle in the last year. That leaves us with "Sophmore Slump" or "Poor Development".
word…. but I wouldn’t claim my list of possible reasons is exhaustive. I don’t know what factors really could be contributing to this. I know Torts has said (or implied?) that MDZ has the wrong type of arrogance – is that a factor? Who really knows.
On Cally/Graves
I’m not saying Cally is untouchable – the oppposite actually. The point I wanted to make was that Graves moved 4 times in his career – he was a good player, but not always the right player for certain teams. In the same way Cally does alot right, but I think we need to be open to moving some of these guys if the right move presents itself. Slats seems a little TOO afraid to part with our guys.
Graves moved between 3 teams when he was ages 19-23, where he was still growing and Detroit/Edmonton may not have been completely clear on what they had. Graves stuck with the Rangers throughout his prime and then some, only being moved when he was 33 and saw his production declining over the course of years.
Callahan is a player (theoretically) entering his prime now, at very least increasing his production (w/o the broken hand, he’d be on pace for 60 points). The Rangers are in a good position in that they will able to sign him as an RFA this offseason to a deal that should be under-market for the production he’s going to give throughout this prime. (the same of which is true of Dubinsky) It’s an enviable position to be in from a cap perspective
That’s not to say Callahan is untouchable, he’s definitely not, but he’s not a player that should be used to pay older players, who while clearly more talented than Callahan, are more likely to decline to a point where the difference 2-3 years down the road isn’t as great as it is that day.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
As long as we’re not giving older players 7 year deals that’s not a problem. Sign up for 3 years, toss them when they decline, and get a NEW older player. This wasn’t meant to be a “trade Cally” comment, more of a “keep some perspective on Cally comment”.
I’m not taking it as a trade Cally comment, I’m more debating that he’s more untouchable than his production should be, given the age and contract situations.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 1, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
disagree on your assessment of Graves
For a 7-year period Graves was untouchable—between 1991-92 and 1998-99 he averaged 36 goals per full season (discounting his 17 goals in 48 games in the lockout year of 1994-95); toss in his locker-room popularity and his tremendous relationship with NYC during his time as a Ranger, and you have the fourth most untouchable player in that era—behind only Messier, Leetch, and Graves. His durability in an era where defensemen could clear the crease with impunity was amazing; couple that with a chronic back problem and Graves’ endurance was little short of heroic. His value was off the charts to the NY Rangers of his time; the same cannot be said about Callahan at this point in his Ranger career.
Cally has a looonnnnnngggg way to go before he can be compared to Adam Graves….the only edge he’s got over Graves is in speed. Other than that, Graves was a better scorer and a much more physical player. Cally is a gnat out there, hitting like crazy, but not a punisher—whereas Graves was a player who could punish with a check. Cally is popular, but not in the same class as Gravy. It’ll take a few more consistent, durable seasons for Cally to reach that lofty status.
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by greifi griffie on Mar 1, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Is there a “doh!” button? I did mean Richter as the third player in that sequence….
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by greifi griffie on Mar 1, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
He was so good he was untouchable twice!
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As i said above
The point I was trying to make, was that while Graves was all those things you just listed, he played on 4 different teams throughout his career. At times, while always a great player, he wasn’t the RIGHT player. I would agree that Cally has a ways to go to get to Graves level. The point of my comment was if Adam Graves was able to move throughout his career, fans should realize, Callahan might be a piece we have to move as well. Especially with depending on how much he’s looking for this offseason.
agreed – I’d certainly move him for the right pieces. I also agree with your general point about the fans, and the organization, not becoming unreasonably enamored with prospects, and believing that they’re all going to be top line players if we just give them time. I just don’t think that’s what we’re doing right now, with MDZ and some others. They still deserve more time.
agreed on Cally, differ on Gravy
Like George said, the moves that involved Graves occurred very early and very late in his career. In his prime he was a good-sometimes great player, who qualified as one of the 5 best power forwards in the NHL….and I think he is a guy whose legacy as an Ranger icon sometimes overshadows his ability as a player. In his prime he was a player who would not have been traded, and I don’t think the same is true about Callahan. For a few seasons I think Graves could honestly be ranked with guys like Keith Tkachuk and Bill Guerin and John LeClaire at the top of the league as power forwards, and I don’t think Cally warrants that kind of consideration just yet.
As far as Cally is concerned, I’m with you 100%—I love the guy as a player but I hope he doesn’t price himself out of NY in the offseason.
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by greifi griffie on Mar 1, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
We're actually in full agreement on this, believe it or not
Not trying to take anything from Graves at all – Just saying if a guy like Graves can change teams, so can Cally.
I hear ya…..and I’m as shocked as you are that we are in agreement! What’s the Banter coming to, if we aren’t spewing fire at each other?
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by greifi griffie on Mar 2, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
great post :)
i agree that we won at the deadline. keep it up and in time people will forget :)
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