One Year Later: Less Company For Sather-Haters
by Dave Shapiro on Mar 8, 2011 7:00 AM EST
in New York Rangers Analysis
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Yesterday marked the one year anniversary of the infamous Fire Sather Rally (of which we at the Banter covered, but did not organize). It was a rally organized by Mike Zippo, who as far as I know does not operate a blog, that got mainstream media attention, and major attention from the blog-o-sphere. I did not attend this rally, as I did not believe that Glen Sather should have been fired then, now, or at any time following the lockout. Zippo spoke with New York Magazine, and has had a slight reversal of opinion of Slats:
You’d mentioned to Puck Daddy in January of 2010 that you thought Sather would make a "stupid trade" and deal away prospects. But as you said, he’s avoided making that kind of trade. So I guess my question is this: How much confidence do you have in Sather now? How has that confidence level changed over the past fourteen months or so, since that interview?
As long as he doesn’t have his checkbook open on July 1, I think he’ll be okay. He has made some great trades, but a signing like the [Derek] Boogaard one makes you scratch your head.
This seems to be the general consensus amongst Ranger fans. For a period of time between 2005-2008, there have been a few good signings, a lot of questionable signings, and one horrific signing, and everyone has different opinions about the specific signings themselves. However, the point that is often overlooked is that the Rangers were inexplicably making the playoffs and competing when to be blunt, they shouldn’t have been. Thus, Slats made the decision (in my opinion) to go for gold with free agents while not dealing away the core youth in the rebuild. It was a bold decision to make that had some blow-back, but did not cripple the franchise long term.
When you look at the trades the Rangers made, Slats never gave up anyone that has amounted into anything significant. Fedor Tyutin could be the exception here, but the Rangers have so much depth on defense, that he really isn’t missed by this team. Other than Tyutin, the only outrage was when Petr Prucha and Nigel Dawes were dealt in a package for Derek Morris. Prucha isn’t in the NHL anymore, and Dawes has been on the waiver wire as often as the Rangers backup goalies in 2009-2010. This of course, brings me to this quote by Zippo:
A year later, do you still think Glen Sather should be fired? Has anything changed over the past twelve months that made you reconsider your position?
Well, he’s certainly been doing a better job as of late. He’s cleared some cap space, he hasn’t given away prospects or picks, and the team is young, competitive, and fun to watch.
The answer given by Zippo here is slightly misleading. As alluded to above, Sather never dealt away any prospect or roster player that the coaching staff recognized as being a core piece to the puzzle. Guys like Brandon Dubinsky, Ryan Callahan, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi have remained with the club throughout the years. Players like Artem Anisimov and Michael Del Zotto are being retained despite their struggles. Prospects like Chris Kreider and Christian Thomas are being held on to, despite the fact that the Rangers have been in the playoff hunt every single season.
Although Slats’ free agent signings have been questionable, he has managed to turn those players into core youth. That does not absolve Slats of all blame for the cap situation of previous seasons, but sometimes the end justifies the means. The Rangers are on an upward trend, and are doing it by following the five year plan (post-lockout plan). The only difference between one year ago and today is that fans are beginning to recognize that the Rangers have had a plan, and they are beginning to see it come to fruition on the ice.
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Bad signing are bad signings. But when you can get an asset for just writing a check and turn that asset into more assets (Gomez, Kotalik, etc…) its not a terrible investment.
It took quite a few GM’s some time to get the ‘hang’ of a cap league> Arguably Slats being the old fart that he is didn’t adjust ahead of the curve.
The BIG question is will he give BR the long term deal he wants or risk losing him. That is going to be a tough spot and a lose-lose situation.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Mar 8, 2011 7:10 AM EST reply actions
I think the major reason Slats made his major free agent blunders is lack of farm team depth. Outside of the recently stockpiled young guns and prospects, they didn’t have the firepower to compete nor the firepower to make deals. So the only way to get players was spend spend spend.
Now, Slats is recognizing that he got the rangers organizational depth in a hurry and I hope he continues to be unwilling to damage it long term.
I can’t believe how long it’s taken for slats to undo the neil smith damage.
“I can’t believe how long it’s taken for slats to undo the neil smith damage.”
Thank you for saying this. Too many people forget that Smith made some of the worst youth for vet trades in franchise history post-1994. Zubov and Norstrom the most prominent. As much as I know Keenan had a huge hand in the deadline deals, Smith really screwed the pooch for several years after. At least Keenan was able to get the Blues some damn good players in his tenure there, namely Pronger and MacInnis.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Mar 8, 2011 8:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Smith ended the way slats began in NY – signing vets to extravagant contracts because the cupboard was bare in terms of talent coming up. The difference is Smith gave away the farm. All Sather inherited was a ken gernander jersey.
=)
In fairness to Neil Smith, he was under tremendous pressure from above to duplicate 1994
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Mar 8, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
I understand some of the reasoning behind the trades he made. At the time the NHL was moving to the power forward, clutch and grab style. The fact that the Rangers got bounced by the Legion of Doom Flyers and the secondary scoring wasn’t as strong (I think partly because of guys like Amonte and Gartner getting shipped out) provided the logic for the trade with the Pens.
On paper you have one of the most prolific scoring wingers of all time and a tough/take no BS/piss off the other team D coming in while shipping out a couple of highly skilled yet “soft” players. I remember I was fine with Nedved getting shipped out because of his terrible season in NY and because he was part of the trade that saw Tikkanen leave. Almost everyone knew that trading Zubov was instantly going to be a mistake.
In hindsight the Rangers traded just the right amount leading up to their win in 1994, but then thought they could keep trading their way to another Cup for several years after.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Mar 8, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly. The Garden and its teams were being sold, the pressure was on to keep the value high.
While we all basked in the glory of 94, from an “organizational” standpoint, it opened the floodgates for disaster.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Mar 8, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I always thought the Rangers were a one and done team. Especially after how much they sold at the deadline.
In the East I felt if Mario was healthy that the Pens were still the team to beat. Even if Kovalev turned into the player everyone wished he could, no way the Rangers matched up with Lemieux/Francis/Jagr/Stevens (pre-crackhead days). The Bruins also had just as much talent as the Rangers. I never thought the Devils would become the team they did nor did I expect the Flyers to be that good that quickly.
In the West I saw Detroit as becoming a power, especially after they hired Scotty Bowman and started to see how good Fedorov and Lidstrom were going to be.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Mar 8, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Woh woh woh
Let’s remember who we got for Norstrom. That’s right… Jari Kurri and McSorley who were here to help #99’s dream of recreating a Stanley Cup Edmonton Oiler team as everyone had witnessed. The Gretzky era was a massive failure and I the Great One shares just as much blame as Neil Smith.
Im sure Wayne Gretzky had some input on this deal right?
Wayne Gretazky… never was and never will be a fan.
Calmer than you are.
Too bad
Kurri played on the Rangers the year before Gretzky arrived.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Mar 8, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
You are correct
Kurri was a free agent and technically still on the rangers when they signed Gretzky in July of 96. Kurri left for the ducks before playing together the next season.
Point taken.
Calmer than you are.
Amazingly enough
Combined with not trading away young assets, has there really been one summer where the Rangers were in a legit cap squeeze that forced them to dump players they otherwise would have kept like Chicago last year or what the Devils probably face this year vis a vis Parise?
The guy has several notable blunders (UFAs) and equal number of successes (trades to offload said UFAs). I just don’t believe the Rangers as an organization would ever let themselves tank a season to get a top pick whether that’s with or without Sather at the helm. Besides there will always be an Edmonton or Islanders or a small market team that can’t attract UFAs that figures to excite their fanbase with positioning themselves to select the 1st overall pick
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Mar 8, 2011 7:52 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Sather..
I think he has been listening to the moans and groans surrounding this team for the past few years and is finally listening. Its hard not to when you have young talent like the rangers have. He’s gotten rid of some prospects in the past but he would be a damned fool to get rid of some of the guys we have now.
"I've been really working on stick-handling with my head up,"
- Eric Lindros
It’s tough to talk about what Sather would have done without mentioning Chereponov … if he would have come accross and played like his stats suggested he might, we might be in a completely different place right now. Would the Gomez, drury signings been as obviously bad? I think, however, Redden proved to be a mistake, as did Brashere, Boogard, and Kotalik. I do appreciate how he has recovered from that entire situation, and also going “all in” to the youth movement. Regardless of how this season finishes, this offseason is another gut check. Does he decide we’ve matured enough to make a splash now, or wait another season until the core matures a little more and Drury is off the books? Nothing personal against Richards, I think he would be a great fit into our system, but I hope Slats passes and waits for a little more youth maturity and a Drury-less cap room.
My biggest issue with Cherepanov was that they drafted a player right at the time of expiration of the player transfer agreement. My understanding is that the Rangers were working on a side deal with Omsk where they’d eventually get him to the US, but it probably would have been easier just to draft a player without those sort of strings attached.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Mar 8, 2011 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
You don't pass up on a kid with Cheraponov's skill
you just don’t.
And the Rangers had the money to do whatever they had to to get him out.
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by Joe Fortunato on Mar 8, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
The only thing the Rangers didn’t have was a good cardiologist.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Mar 8, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
I think it was a legitimate enough concern that a few other rich teams took a pass on him (Montreal and Boston).
I realize the Rangers had a special “in” with Omsk because of Jagr’s time there during the lockout and the plan seemed to be for Jagr to go over there and mentor him, but what if Jagr’s automatic extension clause (I can’t remember specifically what that was right now) had kicked in and he stayed in NY another year? I just feel that it was a tangible enough risk that I wouldn’t have criticized the Rangers for passing on him.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Mar 8, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
as far as most media outlets suggest, his condion wasn’t diagnosed until he was gone. It does raise the “controlled substance abuse”, or dare I say steriods thread concerning the Russian prospects. I haven’t read much about their testing and reporting policies, but it bears considering. Personally, and not because I’m a Ranger fan, I think OV and Malkin should be tested. Their personalities on the ice and facial structure seem consistent with steroid use.
by bleed'n blue on Mar 8, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
+1 (not to be confused with the infinity debacle)
There is no way the rangers should have passed on Chereponov. His numbers were Bure, OV, Malkin like (i’ve heard even better). Hindsight says that was a bad idea, but undoubtably the result had long reaching implications to the overall team strategy. Fortunately, our youth development and drafting is turning out much better than (I) expected. We could very easily be a cellar dweller right now no matter what Sather did, so I’m hesitant to put this years success on his shoulders. What I would say is that either he listened to his scouts WRT this development, and commited to it. That, in my opinion, is his saving grace these last two season. Also, he admitted he was wrong by moving Gomez, Kotalik, Higgins and most importantly Redden.
by bleed'n blue on Mar 8, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know
Those shifty eyes, the glasses down low on his nose, and that cigar…that goddamn cigar
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot" Evgeny Nabakov on Garth Snow
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
so what happens July 1...?
Richards’ agent is going to start with the Gaborik contract & move north. At what years & what $$ would you guys be satisfied.
I for one think anything over the Gabby deal could spell disaster
Were they saying "Boo" or "Boo-urns?"
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I think its hilarious how this fan base shifts around with the winds. Last year I was one of the ONLY ones saying Don’t Fire Sather in the midst of the witch hunt and I took abuse on this list. It was clear last year and the year before that Sather was rebuilding after trying to push us through with Jagr for a run at the cup. He brought in three guys to serve as role models for the type of club he was trying to build: Gomez; Drury; Redden. He signed them for the amount of time he figured it would take for us to rebuild. All but Drury are gone, but so far he’s managed to construct the type of team he wanted.
Things are going according to plan.
Gomez and drury were not brought in just to rebuild though. I’m sure it was a factor in their signing as they were both proven veterans able to show young kids how it was done, but remember the optimism after their signings? That was a shot at the Cup when we signed those two IMO…
I listen to Enter Sandman before taking exams. I wear the exact same jersey every Giants game. The Rangers goal song goes off in my head when I achieve small successes in life.
HEN-RIK
by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Mar 8, 2011 1:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was right there with you, voice. As a matter a fact I found an old fan post I put up last February that detailed a lot of what has gone on over the past year, waiving Redden and dealing Roszival the two biggest points I was right on. Though I didn’t figure Glen was going to turn Rozy into Wolski, I figured it would be merely a salary dump, not an upgrade in talent.
are you kidding?
I can’t fathom supporting Sather, then or now. He has consistently attempted to build teams around over priced aging has beens. Jagr, Holik, Lindros … the list goes on. There is no way I would give Sather credit for the unexpeted development and production of the youth on this team. Ironically, it is coming at the expense of his mistakes … Drury, Gomez, Drury – more ridiculous contracts. I really beleive he hasn’t done it again already because he finally didn’t have the cap space. I’m almost glad the CBA came out as it did to curtail this “everyone’s nightmare wife” from going back to the free agent department store. I’ve said time and again, I hope Sather doesn’t revert back to his old self this off season (or next when Drury’s ridiculous paycheck is off the books). There are really only two ways this won’t happen – either he’s finally gotten it (doubtful as zebras rarely change their stripes), or fire his ass (but Dolan loves him). So I’m left hoping that his Boogard frankenstein to go bezerk. Rebuilding with Drury, Gomez and Redden? Does that mean Christensen, Kotalik, Brashere, Boogard, Zherdev and all the other clowns are justifyable as rebuilding tools as well?
Anybody else think Sather could be an evil genius?
Hear me out on this.
What would be the ultimate punishment for a has-been fighter who jumps one of your promising young players in a playoff series?
Answer: Sign him as a free-agent the next season and then send his ass to the minors of course.
Exactly what happened with Donald Brashear and deservedly so.
Kudos to Sather… our hometown Evil Genius
Calmer than you are.
anybody else think sather is an evil genius?
uhm…yea…i think he was supposed to be a bond villain who was going to offer the Soviets 7 years and 30 mil to kill the queen before James Bond threw the salary cap at Sather
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
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In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Post lockout Sather has been ok, pre-lockout a disaster (don’t forget how long he’s been in charge).
Post Lockout he did well to build team w/ Czechs around Jagr for a few years. Drafting has been good (thank Gordie Clark, lucked out w/ Henrik, bad break with Cherapanov).
Awful signings (Redden, Gomez, Drury, Kotalik, Rosi, Boogard, Brashear) have been offset by good moves to offload some of the mistakes combined with stupidity by Montreal giving us McD and taking Gomez, Calgary taking Kotalik and giving us Prust.
Also has been bailed out by Garden’s deep pockets burying Redden in Hartford (few if any teams would do that for 4 years at $6.5M per), probably buying out Drury, probably eating Boogard for 3 more years, taking Whites salary from Atlanta for Brashear, etc.
I guess I’d keep him in absence of any better alternatives.
You have to applaud Sather for two things:
- This guy is a master of trades. He is very methodical in his approach to trading with other teams, sometimes taking months of feeling out his options, waiting for the right time to strike. We like to call his prowess “Jedi Mind Tricks”, but that would imply a more instantaneous action—he is very patient in that regard.
- Stealing Gordie Clark from the Islanders. I have no clue how the hell he pulled this off, but Gordie has been our best acquisition in Sather’s entire tenure. Since Clark’s arrival, the pipeline went from being as barren as a desert to overflowing as if we just struck oil. We seem to have pretty good luck drafting D-men, and perhaps we’ll see some moves for a forward or two down the line to even out the cupboard. Last I checked, we have tons of LW and D, but are very limited on RW and C prospects with NHL potential.
While he may appear to be like a child who just entered a candy store with daddy’s credit card when it comes to free agency, he really didn’t have many options. With the pipeline bare, his options were to pick up whoever he possibly could off of free agency, or tank for several seasons (Pittsburgh, Edmonton, etc.). With the fan base as passionate as ours, tanking is clearly out of the question.
Sather may finally realize what it takes to win in the Cap era, and is putting the rebuild in motion. This was evident during the 2009 FA when his primary pickup was Gaborik, a dynamic, elite talent whose flaw is that he’s made of glass. He was brought up in Minnesota’s trap system, so he knows how to play without the puck, and for a pure goal scorer he has underrated passing ability. He unloaded the Gomez contract for prospects (two highly rated D prospects, one whom is playing second-pairing minutes with us right now and the other is knocking down the door). Higgins was moved for Prust, who has solidified himself as a member of our core, with his relentless play that rivals only Callahan.
He picked up some retreads to hold the fort til the kids are ready (Christensen, Auld, Eminger, Fedotenko), none whom have contracts after next season (when a LOT of money comes off the cap). By then the kids should be ready to make a serious push, and we’ll have the cap space to round out the roster, pay our RFAs that are deserving of it, and contend for the cup for multiple years. My only hope is that these grueling seasons haven’t taken their toll on Lundqvist, and that he still has gas left in the tank when he’s on the wrong side of 30.
This Post is Nonsense
Complete nonsense. Sather has done nothing good for the Rangers and needs to go. So we have some prospects. What team in the NHL doesn’t have prospects??? Why do all ours have the divine touch to become the next Gretzky? And we were a surprise team? You can’t tell me the Carolina Hurricanes or Buffalo Sabres are ravages with talent but we’re lucky to even be in a playoff spot. So we’re pretty much saying it took 8 years but now Sather sees the path to future NHL success, so we should keep him. Utterly ridiculous. Sather is a relic who feeds off the ideas of others and the support of the powerful. Supporting him is immoral
by broadwayblueshirts on Mar 8, 2011 8:24 PM EST reply actions
wow
Supporting him is immoral
well, I guess that’s one way of looking at things
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot" Evgeny Nabakov on Garth Snow
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Not a divine touch, but 4 of them are going to end the season with 20 goals, and 4 of them are developing into what would be top 4 defensemen on almost any team. And it is not necessarily fair to compare talent with teams that have had considerably higher draft picks since the lockout.
The article doesn’t seem to be aggressively pro-Sather. We all know we are stuck with him – he isn’t getting fired. But he has done well with trades and has gotten better with free agency and seems to have slowly changed ideologies.
To say that he has done nothing good for the Rangers is pretty ridiculous and takes away from your argument.
I’m inclined to place Dubi and Cally outside of prospect status, considering time spent in the league. And although I applaud Sather for not trading AA, trading Stepan would have been fairly outrageous so excuse me for not breaking out the big old high-five. Sauer and McD are good too, MDZ will come around, I think. Koodos to him.
Now, all the bad he’s done. Of course, there is the playoff drought of which he exacerbated. Then there is the signing of players like Holik, Carter, Lindros, Bure, Nedved, Kovalev, Ozolinsh, Drury, Redden, and many more that all hurt the team. Then, of course, he trades Graves when he hits a hard time, and then trades off Leetch. Past their prime? Sure. But if I’m going to watch an absolute garbage Rangers team, I’d rather watch guys I care about, guys who loved wearing the sweater.
Also, his coaching selections have been awful. Ron Lowe has never had a winning season in the NHL. He hired a former fish stick in Trottier, then made himself coach. Ha, I almost forgot the wizardry of Muckler. Then “with 1 minute on the clock I always put Orr/Hollweg/Ortmeyer on the ice” Tom Renney gets selected coach, and takes what little talent the Rangers had and squandered it. Jury still out on Torts…
So no, this hope for the future has hardly atoned for his sins from the past. So while I concede he may have done some good for the Rangers, he has hardly come out on the positive since becoming GM.
by broadwayblueshirts on Mar 8, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
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