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Our Cupboard and Upcoming Cup Window (with implications for Richards)

After the Erixon heist I got to thinking, the result of which was further questioning about Brad Richards and what the Rangers should do to create the best Cup window. Let's start with establishing where we are:

In 4 years this is our defense:

Marc Staal (28, 1 yr left at 4 mil) Tim Erixon (24, 1st yr 2nd contract, Dad discount)

Ryan McDonaugh (25, 2nd yr 2nd contract) Michael Sauer (27, 2nd yr 3rd contract?)

Michael Del Zotto (25 1st yr 3rd contract?) Dylan McIlrath (23, end of EL?)

(Dan Girardi 31, 1st yr after 3.33)

- Looks pretty great to me and is a wake-up call to let players like Del Zotto take their time because this defensive line-up is nasty and young. Imagine. If McIlrath barely flirts with expectations he will bring enough D and toughness to be a great third pair guy. DelZ will have good enough D for third pair and can be given a year in Hartford or whatever it takes to figure out how to use his offense. McD and Sauer are already a pretty damn good 2nd pair and McD skates and moves puck well so maybe we get some offense. Staal, nothing needs to be said although he will probably become a 40 pt/yr D-man just based on his ice-time and skill. Erixon has promise on offense and is very solid on Defense. Truthfully Erixon, McD, and Sauer are probably a rotation for the top pair maybe Staal/Sauer (who plays a little like Girardi) and then McD and Erixon a very mobile yet defensive pair that can do damage against 2nd lines. Del Z and McIl trustworthy but specialty guys and do real damage against third lines.

- Obviously there is a great chance that Girardi will still be around, I simply leave him out as he is older and even without him you get a sense of the Rangers' amazing foundation on D. It certainly isn't a reach to expect any of these players to be able to play these roles. We also have Kundratek, Valentenko, and Pashnin who all seem like they have NHL careers ahead of them and thus are trade chips or perhaps allow us to trade someone like Sauer and one of them or another prospect for a very good forward (I mention Sauer because teams will pay more for a known thing ie someone with NHL experience. Sather will have to figure that all out as this D may be too good and may not give enough time to McIlrath and those three prospects as 2nd pair and 3rd pair guys respectively and so we can take that excess and turn it into offense).

Forwards four years out is as follows:

Ryan Callahan (29, probably last yr of a 4 yr/ 4 mil contract)

Brandon Dubinsky (28, probably last yr of a 4 yr/ 4 mil contract)

Derek Stepan (24, 2nd year of 2nd contract, 5 yr/ 5 mil?)

Artem Anisimov (26, maybe 1st yr of 4 yr/ 4 mil contract to put on Duby/Cally path or 4yr/ 5 mil?)

Brandon Prust (30)

Christian Thomas (22, hopefully 2 yrs experience)

Evgeny Grachev (24, hopefully 2 yrs experience)

Chris Kreider (23, hopefully 2 yrs probably 3)

MZA (27, 4 yrs exp, most likely to be traded)

Hagelin/Bourque/Lindberg (young)

Think of Boston right now. They have a lot of 60 point talent guys but no PPG studs. This line-up would be similar. Callahan and Duby should be regular 60 point guys, as should Stepan and AA. Christian Thomas and Kreider have immense offensive upside and by all accounts are responsible defensively. Grachev and MZA could be interesting players but are still question marks. Hagelin Bourque and Lindberg, with Bourque as the biggest question mark, are great two way players with some solid offense for the bottom 6. Prust can still be a heart and soul guy if his body holds up. We therefore have 4 60 point guys, two more who certainly have a chance at that, MZA and Grachev who may also, and a good bottom 6 (add in Dale Weiss maybe etc)

As for Hank, he will be 32 and having just finished the highest paid goalie contract and with a good D in front. I'm sure he will sign for whatever the club needs and can probably/hopefully start for another 3-5 years and maybe backup after that. I'm sure everyone will sign good contracts as they are all homegrown, especially the D who will look to Staal as the model.

Therefore without drafting another player, signing one, or trading for one, I think we have a roster that could be a cup contender with pretty realistic talent and expectations of what players will become (obviously fill in one or two bottom six spots). Getting Richards now may make it hard for this roster to flourish as it can starting 3 years out and lasting for at least 4 if not something like 7. We therefore have to ask how committed we are to a rebuild because we have all the seeds and now have to give them time to grow. Rather than Richards I might actually look to trade some of our D for a player that fits this window of 3-9 years from now better. Maybe the Aves still want to shore up their D and are willing to part with Statsny (although his contract may be a little bloated too) or maybe we trade less to take a chance on Peter Mueller (I think we were interested in him before although now there are injury concerns). Maybe San Jose with only 3 good young D now and having tried to get Hjalmerblah on an offer sheet recently to go young on D would entertain offers for Pavelski or Couture (Pavelski especially as he is older. I think he would be good for us as with limited talent on Sharks third line this past year he had 46 assists in 74 games and I think a big presence on the PP, has also been pretty solid in the playoffs when given the time). If we can find a way to keep Kundratek Pashnin and Valentenko within the system for another year or two without pulling a PA Parenteau, maybe we can watch a player like Ryan Johanson and, if he is gonna be a real star, maybe trade Dubby and a prospect or some variation of that to have a little more top-tier talent (you have to give to get)*I obviously haven't done this for other teams futures (although I hope Sather and co have) and don't know how the Aves and Sharks D prospects are but I'm sure someone in the league has a young talented center (actually not that many under 25) or a really promising prospect we could go after if they were one of the last pieces.

So my vision is to continue drafting and trading probably. Richards is tempting and deserves looking into if a good contract can be made like 8 million the first three years and two years of 5 after so if he deteriorated he could be traded to a salary floor team or easily put in Hartford. But if we keep succeeding in the draft and add more and more talented forwards while turning our excellent foundation at D into even more offense, we may not have a superstar but I'd be shocked if we didn't have an extremely deep, homegrown, committed team in three years. Add a typical trade deadline move or what-have-you and the parades will begin.

 

What do you guys think? Reasonable assumptions? A cup worthy team? What to do with all these D excess?  Young players you would like to trade for (maybe look at the bottom of hockey futures organization rankings and see if those teams have any good young players on their roster now)? It's definitely an exciting time to be a Rangers fan and as always with Sather, this summer will be very interesting...

Poll
Brad Richards? Make a big Trade for Pavelski? Erikson? Schenn?
Richards
38 votes
Erikson
4 votes
Schenn
12 votes
Pavelski
17 votes
No Richards but other FA
9 votes
Just sign RFAs
9 votes

89 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 41 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Very well written. Good work and pretty good assumptions for the future. Obviously its 4 years away and we have no idea what the team will look like, but generally I like you’re analysis of our kidsl

If that was our roster in 4 years I would absolutely entertain packaging Girardi and a good young forward for a legit first line talent.

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Jun 14, 2011 10:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed, I love Danny G but when we’ve got such depth on D and Sauer looks like he could do the same thing as him, and possibly even do it better, he is definitely got trade value that should be used for top line players.

by Zuppa Di Pesce on Jun 14, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll also give two different approaches:

If they get Richards I think they should maybe ask about getting Loui Erikson too. First, Richards may like a reunion with his regular linemate. Second, Loui is signed cheap for 5 more years and is only 25, while already a dynamic player who has scored over 35 goals before and this year seemed to play a more balanced offense and thus had 46 assists, as many as Brandon Dubinsky did points in a similar number of games. (if anyone knows his game well…. He can be a part of our 3-9 year core, convince/help Richards (imagine that top line of Gabby-Richards-Erikson, and he has a good deal already. BUT you have to give to get. I think we have a great trade chip in McIlrath (who they were going to take the pick after us) but I would first try something like Boyle, Valentenko and maybe MZA (remember they are getting a new owner so may not mind cutting salary as long as we give them something to grow with, which we have some excess of). If I had to trade Grachev Valentenko and Boyle I would. Kreider or Thomas I would hate to move. For salary cap reasons maybe we trade them Wolski who they then buyout or we move Avery down etc. One of the best young players in the league with a center he has established chemistry with, that move could maybe make us a contender this year without really hurting our longterm window either, probably helping it.

Another option would be to accept the vision of our team in 3-4 years and therefore trade Gaborik plus one for Luke Schenn. LA might take Boyle and/or Gilroy or Valentenko. Schenn would them develop to be a first line center who would hit his prime at the same time as Christian Thomas and Kreider, not to mention having Stepan, Anisimov, MZA, Grachev, Cally and Dubinsky on the team with a still great young team and a still going Hank (who we need to make sure to rest some this season).

Both really intriguing options

by bwl1 on Jun 14, 2011 11:35 AM EDT reply actions  

 Luke Schenn’s the D-man in TOR. You mean Brayden Schenn, and LA isn’t trading him.

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by George E. Ays on Jun 14, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought he was already getting traded to the Rangers for Gaborik or to the Flyers for Carter or to Montreal for Gomez.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Jun 14, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think anyone would touch Gomez, unless he jumps in a time machine and heads for late 90s long island.

by Free2beljg on Jun 14, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brayden Schenn isn’t going anywhere for anyone. If there was anything real to the Gaborik to LA rumors/ conjecture, Schenn wasn’t a part of it.

by Hoggo on Jun 14, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not saying Sather should make the trade, but LA would most definitely listen to trades with the rangers involving Gaborik. Schenn may be their best prospect but they have Anze Kopitar as their first line center, meaning 1-2 Center punch would be nice but not neccesary, so it may take a great return in assets for him but he is definitely acquirable.

by Zuppa Di Pesce on Jun 14, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Schenn isn’t going anywhere, for anyone.

by Hoggo on Jun 15, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brayden Schenn isn’t going anywhere. At all.

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Jun 14, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im so psyched for our defensive corps. We’re executing the “build from the net out” approach very well so far. The key is going to be making the correct decisions regarding our forwards. This is the key to a future Cup run. I have complete faith in Hank and our young defense. It is essential that the Rangers make the correct decisions regarding their offensive personnel in the coming years.

I really don’t know much about Erixion other than he was a potential top 10 pick this year. From what I’ve seen here, I’m getting the impression that he is a McD type player, strong skater with 2-way potential. Is that an accurate synopsis?

I listen to Enter Sandman before taking exams. I wear the exact same jersey every Giants game. The Rangers goal song goes off in my head when I achieve small successes in life.

HEN-RIK

by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Jun 14, 2011 3:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Rather than give anecdotes, he’s the feature today on the NYR site and their 20 Prospects in 20 Days series.
Yes, it’s biased – painting the best possible picture. But it’s not so outrageous as to be pure fantasy either.
20 in 20: Erixon

by dbmaven on Jun 14, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good write up.

Though I highly doubt Richads signs without a NMC. I had brought this up a while back during the discussion of Redden, Rozival, Drury, etc… where the prevailing feeling was just to bury them in the AHL. Although I didn’t necessarily disagree with that I mentioned there were repercussions in doing this, mainly when signing free agents as they will see others being buried and they would look to protect themselves from this organizational behavior. Most people said I was being silly.

Aucune clause de Mouvement

by Blueshirt in Paris on Jun 15, 2011 9:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Dylan McIlrath? I cannot say that I have actually seen him play, but the only positive thing I have read about him is his size. I have read he is not a good skater, and severely lacks mobility. So are the expectations on him realistic? We are VERY deep in defensive prospects/ roster players, will McIIrath ever make it to the Rangers? Looking for unbiased opinions and thoughts on his game.

by Dizzybizzy on Jun 15, 2011 10:22 AM EDT reply actions  

I can’t say that I have seen him play in depth, outside of a few highlights, but scouting reports that I have read is that for his size he has good mobility.

Chara is not the most mobile of players but with his reach most of the time he doesn’t have to.

Aucune clause de Mouvement

by Blueshirt in Paris on Jun 15, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Precisely

What Chara lacks in speed he makes up for in positioning. McIlrath will have to develop that way, but from what I’ve read, guys in the W don’t even bother coming down his side for fear of being killed. That’s an advantage in itself.

Keep in mind that McIlrath doesn’t have to become a top pair player to have a role with this team, at least as constructed now. Between Staal, McDonagh, and hopefully Erixon, that role should be covered for a long time. While we’d love to have the next Chara/Weber in McI, expectations should be somewhat tempered.

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by George E. Ays on Jun 15, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

WIth Staal, Girardi, McD, Erixon, Sauer, and MDZ, there is virtually no pressure on Mcilrath to become a top 2 pairing defensemen.

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Jun 15, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, with those 6, there’s no pressue on McI to be any pair defensemen :-)

I will say right now at least 2 of those players won’t be here when McI is ready.

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by George E. Ays on Jun 15, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know the 1 but who is the 2?

Aucune clause de Mouvement

by Blueshirt in Paris on Jun 15, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no clue which two, but it’s a pretty safe bet that we don’t carry that defense for the next 2-4 years.

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by George E. Ays on Jun 15, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too many valuable pieces. Our best bet is to flip em for some proven players in a few years.

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Jun 16, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who do they hold onto for development?

Pashnin, Tank and Mcilrath are my guesses.

Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.

by earthworm on Jun 17, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

:)

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Jun 16, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks guys

The reason I asked was the “If he barley flirts with expectations” line in this post. I was honestly not too sure (other than what i have read) what his expectations were.

by Dizzybizzy on Jun 15, 2011 11:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, the line continues “…he will bring enough D and toughness to be a great third pair guy”

That’s pretty accurate, I think. As long as he stays on schedule, he should at least be a 3rd pairing guy, and it’s possible that’s all we really need at that point. People hoping for him to be Weber or Chara are setting themselves up for potential disappointment, but most want every prospect to be a Hart/Norris contender every year.

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by George E. Ays on Jun 15, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure if that was directed at me, no way are my expectations that he is the next Chara…just that at that size great mobility isn’t as important (nor possible), like Chara.

But from scouting reports he has a quick stick, reads well and tough to go through physically. And yes, if he can be a 3rd pair that would be just great. More is just that, more.

Aucune clause de Mouvement

by Blueshirt in Paris on Jun 15, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nope, not directed at you.

I’ve seen that comparison thrown around much more directly, with comparisons to his shot (which is pretty heavy) as well.

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by George E. Ays on Jun 15, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would a #10 overall pick resulting in a “great third pair guy” be considered a success? I wouldnt think so, he is an ultimate risk/reward project but if he turns out to just be a bruising 3rd pair d-man with not much else to offer I see it as a mistake.

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by Plusch on Jun 15, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

3rd pair is the bottom of his expectations, I think that’s the OP’s point and I’m certain that’s fine. If that’s what we get, no, it’s not fantastic success given his draft slot, but it’s much more harmful to swing and miss than it is to to swing and at least get a consistent NHL contributor.

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by George E. Ays on Jun 15, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah and its not a fantasy league…just because he plays on the 3rd pair doesn’t make him 3rd pair dman and taking the make-up of the defense corps in consideration we need someone that has that physical edge.

Look at the whole picture not just pairings. If his addressed a team need well then it was a good pick.

Aucune clause de Mouvement

by Blueshirt in Paris on Jun 15, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea that’s a good point. I mistakenly thought of it as 3rd pair talent when he can possibly be better than that but be on the 3rd pair here behind guys like Staal/DG, Sauer/McD/Erixon, etc while he could be a top-4 dman on a good number of other teams

GO PACK GO -- 13 Time World Champions
Let's Go Rangers
UH Huh You Know What It Is ZUCCA-RELLO ZUCCA-RELLO

by Plusch on Jun 15, 2011 2:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I only hope we have that ‘problem’

Aucune clause de Mouvement

by Blueshirt in Paris on Jun 15, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup. If we have a 6 of lets say..

Staal McD
Sauer Erixon
Mcilrath MDZ

All 6 would play 15+ mins and contribute in different ways.

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Jun 15, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is a beautiful lineup there if they all pan out and stay healthy. Sad to realize that if they do pan out there likely won’t be room on Broadway for Dan Girardi. If it comes to that I hope he cashes in somewhere

GO PACK GO -- 13 Time World Champions
Let's Go Rangers
UH Huh You Know What It Is ZUCCA-RELLO ZUCCA-RELLO

by Plusch on Jun 15, 2011 10:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

He will. Hopefully we will make a trade and flip some of our defensive prospects for proven players down the line.

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Jun 16, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless he is part of a package for scoring......

I think realistically Girardi is here for at least 2 or 3 more seasons. I don’t see the Rangers trading their best defensive player from this past season unless it is for a guy like Stastny. Mcilrath is not stepping in to the 2nd pair. He’ll be the seventh man his first season which seems to be about 2 seasons from now. I’m not sure erixon is even in a pairing when he comes in. He might be the 7th man for a while. You don’t demote your most solid guy and best shot blocker after his best season as a Ranger.

Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.

by earthworm on Jun 17, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh no, I agree. I think he is here until either the end of his contract or the final year of that contract and is traded off for some reason. McIlrath is at least 2 seasons away I think and I see him as more of a 3rd pair. I think Erixon can become alongside Staal on the top pair, MDZ/Sauer/McD on 2nd pair, etc.

GO PACK GO -- 13 Time World Champions
Let's Go Rangers
UH Huh You Know What It Is ZUCCA-RELLO ZUCCA-RELLO

by Plusch on Jun 17, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I guess that would not be “flirting with expectations” that would be living up to expectations.

by Dizzybizzy on Jun 15, 2011 11:32 AM EDT reply actions  

So What to Do/ When to Do It now that we have this great D in place

Seems like we all agree we have a pretty healthy D. I’ve read nothing that doesn’t suggest McIl will be at worst a very good 3rd pair guy, although probably not with the Rangers until 2013… but we even have Kund, Val, and Pashnin now who seem very close to trustworthy 3rd pair.

With all this and some solid offense, although short on Gaborik/Richards talent, what do you want to do? Sign Richards now even though he won’t match up with our window as it stands and may eat too much cap at the end of the deal as the rest of the team is ready to be a contender (although a 60 pt Richards would still be an asset and I wouldn’t mind signing him as I think talented players make the whole team better. See Penguins and Caps where a few really good guys can make players like Asham and Rupp better. POTENTIALLY IMPORTANT IN SIGNING RICHARDS IS HAVING AN IDEA OF WHERE THE CAP WILL BE AFTER THE CBA BECAUSE IF IT IS LOWER HE’LL BE EATING UP A BIGGER PROPORTION).

Other than Richards would you trade for someone now? Maybe put a good package together for a top-tier prospect like Brayden Schenn, Ryan Johanson or to move up in this draft? Maybe for Pavelski?

by bwl1 on Jun 16, 2011 12:49 AM EDT reply actions  

http://rangers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=565915&navid=DL|NYR|home
McIl update. I read a Clarke quote a few weeks ago highlighting that his skillset will allow all the other Rangers defensemen to do their jobs, ie to not be overly concerned with sending physical messages and also allowing his D partner to really join the rush. Should be interesting to follow him this summer. Also think Pashnin is a big time sleeper as he was the top pick in the KHL draft and playing top pair in the KHL this past year. Big steal for us

by bwl1 on Jun 16, 2011 6:12 AM EDT reply actions  

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