Rangers News: Brad Richards Salary Might Be Too Much For Rangers
by Joe Fortunato on Jun 5, 2011 9:28 AM EDT
in New York Rangers News
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PrintAccording to Larry Brooks, coveted center Brad Richards has no intention of coming to New York on a discount. In fact, he's already set the bar (before any other negotiations) at $7 million a year, on a long term deal.
The Rangers have heard through the grapevine that Brad Richards will be seeking a long-term contract worth a minimum of $7 million per when the free-agent market opens on July 1, and they've heard it more than once and they've heard it from more than one source.
This means that, a) general manager Glen Sather will not be sending an asset to Dallas for the right to try and convince the 31-year-old center to sign before he hits the market; and, b) the Blueshirts already are pondering a Plan B to bring a first-line pivot to Broadway.
We're told by well-placed sources Richards has no intention of signing for a discount in order to reunite with coach John Tortorella, with whom he won the Cup with Tampa Bay in 2004. That's fine. If five years at $6.5 million per -- that's the number -- doesn't represent enough green to get Richards into a Blueshirt, then that's that.
This obviously changes everything.
Brooks goes on to speculate the Rangers will move on without Richards if this is the case, and by all means they absolutely should. There is no doubt Richards will find the type of money he is looking for, he just won't be getting it from Glen Sather. And you know what? That's OK.
The Rangers will look to a plan B immediately. Brooks goes through a few of the other options in his story, but here was what he had to say on the first replacement that came into my head when I read the news:
The Rangers will look at Jason Spezza, 28 next week and who has three years at $7 million per remaining on his deal with Ottawa that includes a no-trade clause. Even if Spezza would agree to waive it to come to New York, even if the Senators would move him, chances are GM Bryan Murray would demand far too much in return.
In the end, I have faith in Sather to do the right thing here. After the work he has done the past few years, you have to give him his due, and there's no reason to believe he's going to jump ship on the team's ideologies to throw an Ilya Kovalchuk type contract at Richards.
The Rangers don't need Richards, he would have been a fantastic grab, but the Rangers can live without him. Especially if he has that type of attitude, I don't want him here anyway. You can also forget the Rangers potentially trading for his rights.
We'll have more analysis tomorrow, but for now, thoughts on this guys?
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what a shame
i was really looking forward to seeing him as a ranger. but not with that kind of money.
well
thats a big ol monkey wrench thrown into that plan…maybe we could put something together for Stastny if Richards doesn’t pan out or maybe hold on pulling the trigger and let the talent develop for a couple of years when Kreider, Thomas and company are ready to hit broadway
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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I would rather have Stastny then BR anyways...
When those Stastny rumors were flying around at this past deadline I almost crapped myself. if we could get him without trading Dubi, Cally, McD, Krieder or Thomas I say go for that over Richards. I always figured BR was gonna get the Gabby contract… He wants MORE then that??
Were they saying "Boo" or "Boo-urns?"
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really?
everyone was clamoring for him in the previous thread when they thought he would cost this much. Why would anyone think he would be less than $7 mil? He the best player in Dallas and he should command that kind of money. Drury and Gomez got it and they aren’t near the same talent. and before you say Sather overpayed them, well yes he did, but Sather’s mistake was more than signing these two players to over-inflated contracts. they will be bar setters used as support by Richards and his agents.
I never thought for a second he would sign for less than $7 mill/year. He’s an elite player like Gabby and should deserves this much. so the shock in the article confuses me although George did say 10 years at $60 mill.
anyway, we cannot expect elite players at discounts.
There was some thought he would come to New York for 6.5 million
which would have been fine. 7+ for a long term deal is insanity however.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jun 5, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont see that happening
he is an elite star and no way he comes here for less than $7+. He deserves as much as Gabby.
I would be thrilled if he came here for 5-6 years at 6-6.5 mill but that’s not realistic. he is not that altruistic that winning comes above his own livelihood.
oh well, who else can we target? I am not thrilled with Spezza as a choice. a bit soft and inconsistent for my taste.
by truebluesince75 on Jun 5, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree with trueblue, I don’t see how anyone could’ve expected Richards to get less than gaborik.
by KingHenrik on Jun 5, 2011 12:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Draft
Would it make sense to package a first round pick and a player (Boyle?) to move up in the draft and get the kid Zibanejad?
Problem with moving up in the draft, as per what Mr. Ays said the other day is price
with the Devos & Isles picking 4-5, we’d either have to wayyy overpay to get into a top-3 spot or pay a still hefty but reasonable price to Ottawa or Winnepeg for their 6-7 pick. Then comes will our guy still be there after 5 or 6 selections go by.
I say our #15 pick, MDZ & Boyle to Winnepeg for the #7 if Zibanejad is still there.
OR
Our #15 a 2012 2nd rd pick, AA & MDZ to Colorado for Stastny
Were they saying "Boo" or "Boo-urns?"
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AA, MDZ, 2nd, and 1st for stastny?
Seems like an overpay.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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Really cause I’d say that would get rejected pretty quickly.
by KingHenrik on Jun 5, 2011 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Truth.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
i wouldnt mind seeing this deal go down and then we sign BR as well. it would require at buyouts of wolski and drury as well as a demotion of avery, but seeing br, stastny, step and boyle down the middle would be pretty amazing.
by BronxBeliever on Jun 6, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t everyone the other day clamoring for a Gaborikk-type contract at 7.5M per year? Richards is not signing anywhere for under 7 unless he really loves Tampa. I’m more concerned about the years of a possible contract. As I’ve said before I wouldn’t go over 6 years @ 7.75 per year and that’s being generous for a 31 yr old center with concussion history.
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by Plusch on Jun 5, 2011 10:16 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
In the end, I have faith in Sather to do the right thing here. After the work he has done the past few years, you have to give him his due, and there’s no reason to believe he’s going to jump ship on the team’s ideologies to throw an Ilya Kovalchuk type contract at Richards.
If we COULD pull of “an Illya Kovalchuk type contract” that would be the perfect fix for us. MSG has the money, the league just limits how much they can spend. Giving Richards something front loaded, that let us pay him $10 mil per while he’s still a factor, but only costing us $6 mil against the cap would be GREAT for all parties.
Kovi’s contract isn’t what’s hurting the Devs cap right now, it’s that they gave too much to the supporting cast before Kovi got there. $5 mil to Rolston, $2.6 to Clarkson, $2.9 to Salvador, $3.4 to Zubrius. This is what we need to keep an eye on with our current batch of “home grown players” – making sure that we’re not overvaluing them with their contracts and tying our hands to get involved when the elite players become available.
"an Illya Kovalchuk type contract" that would be the perfect fix for us.
So giving a 31 year old center a 70 million 10+ year deal is a “fix”? Really? didn’t the Devils just get in trouble by trying to front load a contract in the same way you just suggested?
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Did you see the second paragraph of my post
The Devs got in trouble by overvaluing supporting cast, especially “Home Grown” players. They could have found cheaper options to fill the roles the players I listed above fill, and build around Kovi, Parise, and Brodeur (while he’s still there).
by BuckarooClub on Jun 5, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
yes i did
But the Devils got in trouble circumventing the CBA in the Kovi deal and it cost them in terms of draft picks and cash that they had to cough up to the league…You really want to risk trying that deal again with the league? I know I don’t
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Of the guys you listed, only Clarkson is actually home grown. They overpaid their FAs.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Rolston was too. He was a home grown guy they brought back.
by BuckarooClub on Jun 5, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
He was gone for 9 years. He’s a FA that was overpaid.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Awful idea Buck
The terms are too much, and Richards is too old for that type of deal. If a five year $6.5 million a year deal isn’t going to cut it, then the Rangers might as well look elsewhere.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jun 5, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
To clarify
Wasn’t suggesting it would be a 15 year deal – but similarly structured, shorter deal. Kovi has a 9 year deal, spread out over 15 years. If we could give Richards an 8 year deal for $50 mil, with like $42 mil in the first 5 years (first 4 at 9.5, 5th year at 6) that would be perfect. If gives us the cap hit we want (less then $6 mil) and Richards the money he wants. It’s a shame the NHL closed the door on those deals, cause they are perfect for us. A team with who has the cash, but not the cap.
by BuckarooClub on Jun 5, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Typo – that would be $44 mil on the first 5, but I’m sure you get the idea.
by BuckarooClub on Jun 5, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
but what will Sather do?
I know we as fans have our limits as to what we will pay for Richards but does Sather? we hope he is over his Drury/Gomez days, but he might skip his meds one day. I really hope he doesn’t sacrifice re-signing some of “the core” to sign this guy.
by truebluesince75 on Jun 5, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
C'mon
He’s not worth what gabby and hank are? I got a bad feeling plan b will be a disaster.
Gaborik
Came at five years. Gaborik was also 27 at the time of his deal.
Whispers are Richards wants 6+ years. Throw that on top of the 7+ million we know he wants and it spells disaster. Let him go to Toronto.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jun 5, 2011 11:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Short-sighted.
All of a sudden – because of an article by Brooks with the usual questionable sources – people are up-in-arms about Richards and his purported value ??
I have no problem signing Richards to a contract that nets a $7mm cap hit. If it’s less, so much the better.
For example, you could get him for a net 6.5 cap hit, possibly by doing the following:
8 8 8 6 5 4 39 6.5
Or, if he wants a net 7 = cap hit:
8 8 8 7 6 5 42 7
He’s worth more in the next 3-4 years – and the net works out over the long haul.
As usual, Brooks is full of smoke (or something else that begins with “s”) and people take it as gospel……
id make my top offer around what datsyuks deal is, 7 yrs 46.9 mil. comes out to 6.7 cap hit, i could live with that and he can structure it however the hell he feels like it.
by BronxBeliever on Jun 6, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
If he wants over 7 for over 4 years, I say no deal.
Thats where I draw the line. Or else we might have a 37 year old making 7.5 mil albatross on our hands.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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5 years at 6.5-7 mil is as high as i would go. I would be more flexible in dollars than I would be in years
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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can't add 7 million plus, without subtracting a salary
This is why a trade makes more sense, again we should be focusing on Statsny or Spezza, and moving Girardi in the process.
I love Girardi, but you gotta trade something to get something. And our defense is stacked, so we can afford to lose him.
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 5, 2011 10:53 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
But if we buy out WW, we’ll need a top 6 LW. Adding a frontline center might make WW that frontline LW that we don’t have.
I’d like to see this top 6.
Wolski-Statsny-Gabby
Dubi-Stepan-Calli
Buying out WW won’t help, as we’ll need to replace him. Unless, we could bring back Vin on the cheap to play LW.
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 5, 2011 11:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wolski
Isn’t going anywhere. Drury is the most likely buyout candidate.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jun 5, 2011 11:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wolski could easily be bought out, it would save a lot of cap space.
by KingHenrik on Jun 5, 2011 12:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t understand why. He’s a valuable cap savings and he’s a talented stiff. He can’t cut it on 3 teams that needed scoring (Avs, Yutes, Rangers). Take the “gift” and save over $3M in cap space.
by Richter1994 on Jun 5, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wolski can easily be gone. I wouldnt make blanket statements like that, if i were you
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jun 5, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not really a blanket statement
i think it would be silly to let a player of his caliber walk away for nothing, doesn’t make any sense.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Jun 5, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe, his caliber? what’s his caliber? if he were that good then the Avs or the Yutes would still have him as they need scoring more than we do.
He’s a 25-year-old, 6’3" winger, skilled with the puck, and making 3.8 million. The Rangers only gave up Roszival. That’s a bargain.
Wolski can score if put in the right situation. He did it with Stastny, and in Phoenix after the trade.
I hate harping on it again, but the playing style that the Rangers established this past season didn’t play to Wolski’s strengths. That’s not to say that he could work harder, but where else could you get a player like him? Definitely not in free agency.
nicely put Hoggo
I love how 2 months defines a player’s career and what he’s capable of.
Gabby gets a free pass because he didn’t have a quality center, and yet Wolski playing on the 3rd and 4th line gets written off. Amazing.
I think Wolski could return to a 60-70 point player, if he were paired with Gabby and a legit center. I don’t think you’ll find a 25 year old free agent LW, for 3 million, that has that kind of potential. I think he’s worth keeping.
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 6, 2011 1:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
2 months? lol. here it is:
2010/11: 70GP, 12G, 23A
2009/10: 80GP, 23G, 42A
2008/09: 78GP, 14G, 28A
2007/08: 77GP, 18G, 30A
2006/07: 76GP, 22G, 28A
Again, if this guy is so wonderful then why is this his 3rd team in his career? Everyone is wrong about the guy? lol. If he played to his potential then that would be different. he’s lazy and soft hence he does not play to his potential. his cap savings is too much to give up.
“Why is this his 3rd team in his career”
He was traded, which means he has value, its not as if he’s bounced around, after being released.
Also, years 21-23 were developmental years, otherwise I could say the same about AA’s career stats. He’s one of our more skilled players, any way you slice it. If put in the right situation, he could really help us.
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 6, 2011 10:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
let me be clear, he has the TALENT, he has ZERO DRIVE. he is a lesser form of Zherdev. Talent isn’t enough. if he applied himself then Wolski would be a consistent 30 goal scorer. instead he is a soft, waste of talent. you can’t make them something they don’t want to do themselves.
I don’t think its so much as him being lazy, but rather he didn’t fit into Torts style of all four lines “grinding it out”.
Wolski was a beast for coyotes the second half of 2010, and no one complained he was lazy then.
Put him on a line with Gabby and a frontline center, and I assure you, we’ll get more production out of him than anyone else that would cost us 3.3 million.
Hell, Frolov is what you’ll get for 3 million on the open market.
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 6, 2011 12:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
when Wolski first came to us he was great. then he fell off a cliff. not for nothing but that laziness I speak of was no more evident than when he could have negated an icing very easily late in Game 4 and didn’t. I was at that game and went ballistic. that left a really bad taste in my mouth. talent isn’t enough in pro sports. BTW, I hated the FA signing of FroLoaf and he did exactly what I thought he would do: Zippo. I read all the comment s from LA fans and they hated him at the end (as a hockey player). This is Sather’s weakness: gambling on FAs. Richards IS NOT a gamble (other than injury risk like all players).
So you agree that 3.3 million isn’t going to fetch a decent LW in FA?
Frolov being one example, of what’s out there. Its a contract year for Wolski, which should light a fire under his ass. Like George said, if he’s paired with a legit center, his numbers are good.
My main point, is the 3.3 million we save, won’t buy us a better replacement.
And if so, please point out a 25 year old, skilled left winger, in free agency, that will cost us 3 million?
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 6, 2011 1:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
:)
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Wolski was a beast for coyotes the second half of 2010, and no one complained he was lazy then.
While I agree that Wolski has always been at his best with a playmaking center (Stastny, Lombardi, Stepan), he certainly still had the lazy rep the 2nd half of 2010. Though you might be right that there was no complaining about it.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 6, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
George, I feel it could be argued that Gabby too is a lazy player (at least on the defensive side of the ice), but I’ll take his 40 goals, and live with his short comings.
I fell the same way about WW. We have enough two way players to make up for their short comings on the ice. Its all about offensive output with those two. if we could get 150 points out of the both of them, I’d be happy.
And I think its entirely possible.
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 6, 2011 1:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gaby was lazy. Torts kept alluding to it. He even said Gaby needs to “re-commit” next season. You put a Slovakia jersey on him in the Worlds and he’s the Gaby of 2009/10. We all thought it was injury. Guess not.
I agree – if you look back at all the arguments people made against Kovalchuk coming here, they basically fit Gabby this past year. One dimensional and overpaid.
I’m not ready to write him off completely yet, but it’s not looking too good.
Kovalchuk is also a much bigger defensive liability than Gaborik, and I am not sure how you can say offensively Gaborik is not “nearly as good” as Kovalchuk.
The only number that matters is the $3.8 mil per. It’s a long shot he ever lives up to that, why not get out from under that hit while we can.
Wolski wasn’t in our top 12 players a lot of games, so i think keeping him, and expecting him to be top 6 is a stretch. There’s options other then Wolski that “could” work out. Honestly, Jagr at Wolski’s money is a better deal.
by BuckarooClub on Jun 5, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
please read the post in full
WW with a frontline center, is a top 6 forward.
Or at least on this team…
And him being buried on the 4th line has more to do with Torts having an extra chromosome, then his skill set.
WW best years came paired along side Statsny. Its silly to think he couldn’t repeat those years on a line with Stats and Gabby.
I still think it would take quite a package to get it done, and therefore I’m open to trading for Spezza as well.
He’s a point per game player on a bad team, sure he’s a little injury prone, but for 4 years and 25 million, I’ll take my chances.
Also if you take away Girardi’s 3.25 million as part of the deal, its really just a 3 million dollar add.
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 5, 2011 12:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just don’t ever see a way that Wolski is worth the $3.8 mil we have to pay him. There are cheaper options that can do what he does.
Wolski is a soft, talented stiff. I don’t know why anyone would want this guy on the team especially since the “CBA Gods” have given us a gift to save $3.3M on the cap this year. Game 4 against the Caps: He could have EASILY negated an icing towards the end of the game and dogged it. I have no use for him and EC on this team.
EC doesn’t bother me nearly as much as Wolski. The problem is, when we count on EC as an everyday, top 6 player. For 900K, I think EC gives us what we pay for.
Zuke put up similar ppg as WW and has more upside. We have a couple of young players in the system that should be ready to step up to fill in holes also.
I will say though that WW suffered the same way Gabby did by not having a good center. If we could unload Drury’s contract it would be good to keep him and see what happens.
I get the strong feeling this is going to end in Anisimov getting traded and us regretting it Zubov style.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
that’s just indigestion
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Hopefully
With the Rangers current ideology of going younger, Anisinov would hopefully bring I’m a big return if he gets moved.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jun 5, 2011 11:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
who did we trade him for again
i was too young at the time to remember
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that’s a short sighted deal if i’ve ever saw one…good thing i was only 5 at the time
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Robitaille lasted 2 unspectacular years before we shipped him back to LA for the horrible, horrible Kevin Stevens. Ulf was okay, but again was only here for 2+ years. The Rangers never replaced Zubov, who was so fun to watch.
that was followed seven months later by
norstrom, ferraro, laperierre & lafayette to LA for kurri, churla and mcsorley
imagine if bad deal neil hadn’t made those reactionary moves in reaction to the size of the legion of doom & the devils, a top four d of leetch, beukeboom, zubov & norstrom into the 2000s
would’ve meant a lot more playoff appearances, that’s for sure…this was the price paid for giving messier the player more influence into personnel moves
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"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
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Everytime you guys bring back up those mid 90s trades I sink back into deep depression thinkin about it…please don’t hurt me like that anymore lol
by Mr. Avery to you on Jun 5, 2011 12:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
having lived through it, trust me it hurts more than you can imagine
and the guys who are old enough to remember ratelle and park for esposito and vadnais….or the follow up middleton for hodge deal….yikes…
@joereiter
Blueshirt Banter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?"
Yeah not old enough to remember those as they happened but definitely remember the 90s like yesterday…
by Mr. Avery to you on Jun 5, 2011 11:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That was over 15 years ago, and probably the last time we made a regrettable move with a prospect. The only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Savard for Halvac, but that ultimately netted us Lindros, so i guess it depends on how you feel about Lindros.
by BuckarooClub on Jun 5, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You people are giving way to much credit to Brooks’ statement “that’s the number”. Brooks is not a reliable source.
Many of you are also missing the crux of the argument, which is not the $7m number, but the number of years. Yes, most of us would do the Gabby contract of 5 at $7.5m. I certainly would. Matheson at the Edmonton Journal, equally is unreliable as Brooks, says BR wants 7 yrs at $7m.
Keep in mind that statements about ownership not wanting more than $6.5m per and BR wanting 7 or 8 years at $7m+ are all negotiating ploys. This info is “leaked” by parties with ulterior motives.
Brooks
Is the most reliable source of all the beat reporters. Love him or hate him, he has well placed sources in the business, you can’t deny that.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jun 5, 2011 11:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
spot on Joe. Brooks is all over this kinda stuff.
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jun 5, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Brooks plays editorial/GM too much and doesn’t have real numbers, certainly not from the NYR. I’ll grant the accuracy of what Richards is looking for – but the 6.5 number, as far as I’m concerned, is “bovine post-digestive material”.
Actually Brooks was late to the party
as how much Richards was going to be looking for has been known for quite a while. Richard is no dope, he knows exactly what the landscape looks like and has for a while.
He out performed several of those who make more money than he did despite being out injured this season for a while.
This “Richards will not be returning to the Stars” is more meant to get the Stars to get the sale to Tom Gaglardi done. For those of you who do not know Gaglardi owns the Kamloops Blazers in partnership with Shane Doan, Jarome Ignila, Mark Recchi, and Daryl Sydor (Richard’s teammate with Tampa on the Cup team).
But really do the Rangers want another player on the roster who came to the Rangers because they made the best offer not because they offered Richards the best chance to win another cup?
by theprospectpark on Jun 6, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Jess – if you look at those likely to be “in” on trying to sign Richards, presuming that it really does come down to LA, TOR and NYR – it would seem to me that TOR is out of the running because of their Goaltending and Defense.
LA becomes interesting because they could move Kopitar to 2nd line for a couple years while Richards plays 1st line. They’re deep enough with some decent talent to be about the same as the NYR, maybe slightly better as we talk about it – and what else they might do in the current off-season.
Then there’s the potential of a dark horse sneaking in – Tampa? PIT? WSH? BOS? COL?
Anything is possible come July 1 – and there are inevitably angles that haven’t been thought of or played out. Are any of these dark horse candidates likely? Probably not – but you never know…
Weiss
I agree, the numbers don’t make sense. Forget Richards… I want to keep the identity we have, we aren’t sell outs. Why not Stephen Weiss? I feel he is destined to be here. The rangers are a hungry team. Add a guy like Weiss who who love to play for us. He hasn’t made the playoffs because his team sucks. Watching Weiss, he is truly an elite hockey player. His numbers almost show it, but they will if you put him in his prime next to Marian Gaborik and a fiend like team. I am willing to bet he does more for us than richards. Would love to see him in blue
This explains why his numbers are “low.” his team is a mess http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMorxtRECKo
This is what he can do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtSdCIsaZaA
Just b/c Richards wants a 7+, 7.5M deal doesn’t mean he’s going to get it. How many teams can actually afford Richards preferred deal? It can’t be that many even if the cap goes up to 62M.
He'll get it from someone
The hope was that he would take a discount to play in NY. The Kings and Leafs will find a way.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
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by Joe Fortunato on Jun 5, 2011 11:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Leafs can offer the most money. Kings are gonna need to resign Doughty + but the Leafs have a ton of space and need a top line center.
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jun 5, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd sell someone else's soul for Kopitar.
Selected right before Marc Staal… I wonder, had he dropped, would the Rangers have traded up to select him instead of Staal.
The Kings need wingers. If they do get Richards though, that team will be nasty, especially with Brayden Schenn finally getting there.
Kings this year pretty much had a 1C and 2/3 3Cs, which isn’t all that bad except when your 1C gets hurt (and he was already taking defensive responsibilities from Stoll and Handzus).
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To help with basic Timeonice functions.
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Jun 6, 2011 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Although
The Cap jumping to 62 million doesn’t help out because when that jumps usually the minimum salary for contracts hikes up as well. Not to mention Callahan, Dubinsky and AA using that jump in the cap as a reason to receive more money. Just my recollection of what has happened in the past.
forget richards
let sather do a jedi mind trick deal of grachev, bourque and a 2nd rounder for stastny
@joereiter
Blueshirt Banter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?"
id be in on that deal, i would even allow them to have the 15th pick as well lol. what sort of serious package do you think would be needed to get it done? the AA, MDZ + mentioned above?
by BronxBeliever on Jun 6, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
AA's Upside
Curious to know what you all think Anisimov’s ceiling is…seems like many here are more than willing to part with him. Personally, I’d like to see him stay and continue to grow. Loved watching the Dubi-AA-Cally line last year. Yes, he still needs to bulk up a bit more and develop more consistency to his game. Doubtful he’ll ever blossom into a legit #1 C, but I think he can be a very solid #2, putting up about 60-65 pts a year.
60-65 is the bottom of the #1 centers in this league. There aren’t many guys that surpass that number year to year (only 49 hit 60 this year)
I think his ceiling is ridiculously high. They’re giving him no favors (no PP time, hardest competition, lots of d-zone starts) and he’s still already a 45 point player. If they turn him loose, he’s going to be a beast, IMO
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
But it's only a 32 team league
That means that the bottom of those 49 guys are second liners, at best, or REALLY lousy first liners.
by BuckarooClub on Jun 5, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
49 guys total. Not just centers.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as guys listed as centers on NHL.com, the number is 20. So 60 points is the top 2/3s of centers in the league.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
2/3s of “1st line” centers. That’s enough replying to myself now
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet, an opening!
If you expand to the 60 in 82 threshold (.731 ppg), the list is 29 guys (of which Prospal is one). So 60 points is basically a #1 center in the league.
The teams with more than 1 such guy: CAR, COL, DAL, PHI, PIT, SJS, TBL, VAN (5 playoff, 3 not)
The teams w/o that guy: ATL, CBJ, CGY, EDM, FLA, NJD, NSH, PHX, TOR (2 playoff, 7 not)
Now, I know there are other intangible things that people think of with the “#1 center,” but I think there’s a pretty solid chance that Anisimov and Stepan are both 60+ point players. That’s what made the Richards thing intriguing to me, because it then gives you 3 guys with that talent level, or that will develop to it. It’s also why I don’t think trading for the guy is necessarily the next answer, at least not by giving up Anisimov in the process.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks George. most fans believe a #1 center has to put up 80 pts. those days are over for the most part.
Yeah, almost nobody hits 80 anymore. 70 is a more realistic number, at least in points per game terms. That’s more of the top half of the bracket, the guys who instinctively are thought of as the “#1” center
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont understand smurf, wasnt his zone start 50%? Doesnt that mean as many O-zone starts as D-zone starts?
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jun 5, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but only Boyle and Dubinsky had more D-zone starts. He was below average on our team in OZone Start, and well behind Stepan.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Develop Internally
I do not know how everyone feels but I have had enough of chasing after free agents. We need to continue to develop internally. Most of our cap issues are from bad free agent decisions. Free agency should be for filling in roster holes on the third and fourth lines.
We need to make sound decisions on talent and trade second tier players for value (if we can). For example, the organization needs to make a decision on Grachev and MDZ. If they are not going to be a top six forward or top four defenseman they need to go to find someone who will be. Their value will only decrease as the year goes on.
We don’t have any elite first line talent in our system, internally, and never will as long as we aren’t bottom 5 in the league. “Holes in the roster” mean different things to different teams. Teams that were dogs for years and amassed a bunch of top 5 picks have holes in the 3rd and 4th line for roleplayers, or need a veteran presence. Our team has a wealth of 3rd and 4th liners and roleplayers but no first line talent outside of Gabby. No amount of waiting and developing is going to make one of our young guys into one of the best players in the league.
I really don't understand
did the Rangers or fans REALLY think that Richards would take less than $7M per? That’s laughable especially since this is the last big contract of his career. I have said it a million times that it will take gaby’s deal (5 years @ $7.5M) to get Richards here. if they don’t want to pay it then so be it but I think he’s worth it. don’t forget, you don’t get a #1 center and then gaby’s contract is an albatross as he will have a hard time scoring goals again, IMO.
Years not $$$
I do not know about everyone one else. It is not the number that bothers me so much it is the years.
at 31, why would he take less than a 5 year contract? This is the last opportunity for him to cash in. again, if the Rangers were not prepared to give him “Gaby’s deal” then they put a budget on the potential signing. I would assume then they thought long and hard about “plan B” as they probably knew Richards’ intentions for a long time now. Maybe Richards is afraid to play here (NY).
plan B is Spezza? NOOOOOOOOOO......
Glad to see Richards has possibly forced himself out of the Rangers’ plans….but Jason Spezza as a plan B is a freaking horrible, horrible idea. I beg the hockey gods to somehow prevent this from ever coming to pass….
Prole art threat.
...
yep totally agree Spezza seems like a disaster in the works..so it will happen probably knowing our history…Richards on the other hand coudl work , the salary isnt the real problem i guess with him he deserves some money, the real problem is the lenght of the contract, anything above 4 years should be a big NO.
Spezza needs to be plan Z
And then plan Z needs to be shredded and burned and never brought up again…if we trade for any high profile player target Stastny and work from there
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by Kevin Power on Jun 5, 2011 4:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If the Rangers can’t get Stastny, I refer back to my “cultivate the youth” rants… trade Gaborik for some high-end young center, bring Thomas, Grachev, and Hagelin (Fedotenko-light?) up and let them learn.
Trading for Stepehn Weiss seems like it would be an unnecessary and unfruitful consolation prize. I don’t see him putting the Rangers over the top, and
I’d rather overpay Richards than waste any more of Lundqvist’s prime.
by KingHenrik on Jun 6, 2011 9:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000. thank you!! someone gets it. because they’re not doing it with the current roster and trading depletes the depth they would have that they can keep intact if it just costs $$. besides teams will hold the rangers for ransom knowing they are desperate to get a #1 center if Richards doesn’t sign.
I get what you guys are saying, but if what Richards wants is cost-prohibitive, what are the Ranger’s options? Weiss isn’t cutting it. If Richards doesn’t sign, then what are the Rangers’ alternatives?
While the Avs may be looking to rebuild around Duchene, I don’t doubt they’d be looking for a haul in return for Stastny.
If the Rangers don’t get Richards,they still have to compete against teams with much greater forward depth than what the Rangers would send out. That includes, in the Ranger dvision Philly (which probably has the deepest top-9 in the entire league), Pittsburgh (with the best player in the league, a Russian that got cheated out of the MVP a couple years ago, a healthy Staal, and a new weapon in James Neal) even the Islanders (yeah I said it— Tavares is an under-appreciated talent, Grabner will likely repeat his 30-goal performance, and Nino will likely suit up for them.)
The depth that the Rangers sport isn’t great with the forward corps. We all know Callahan isn’t going anywhere, so no point in entertaining that. I’d hate to lose Dubinsky and Anisimov, but that’s about it. If in order to get a good young talent to come up with the youth on the current roster, you have to give something up.
Lundqvist should take solace in the fact that he will have his jersey retired and probably be in the hall of fame.
they don’t sign Richards, then:
Trade for Statsny: AA, MDZ, and a #1 (or something like that).
Trade for Weiss: MDZ and a #1/prospect – don’t forget he’s locked up at $3.1M per which is a low # and the Panthers are said to be trying to win a little more now by trying to sign Vokoun and maybe testing the FA waters. Weiss wants to stay in FL.
Trade for Spezza: Same package as for Statsny plus Ranger fans get sick to their stomachs.
Do nothing: Make playoffs and win a round or two and WASTE KING’S career.
Those are the options.
I would rather “gamble” on Richards, pay him the money, and keep our “core” intact while adding more of the younger players going forward.
+1
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Goalies primes go into their mid thirties, if not later. Henrik still has a lot of quality years left.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Yeah, someone should remind Hank of that and tell him to stop whining. And I’m not hating on any other aspect of him as a person or player, except that “I need help” whine is old… only one team gets to win the Cup every year.
Lower taxes in US would offset 0.5 mil/year difference between Rangers and Toronto offers. So the Leaves are not our competitors in getting BR.
The Kings are the real competitors, but they have #1 center at Kopitar, why do they need BR?
I think this is already a done deal, considering that Sather has already met a few times with BR and his agent.
But IF(!) the Brooks’ rumors are true then just walk away from Richards.
AND PLEASE DO NOT TRADE AA!!!
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yeah thats too much money
its too much money and too many years
I just hope the Rangers do find someone else to bring in
Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!
by Archie Barberio on Jun 5, 2011 12:36 PM EDT reply actions
Since when was salary an obstacle for Sather?
If he can get it done, he will. Make no mistake of that. Whether it turns out well is anyone’s guess.
I also think I’d rather pay Richards instead of making a big splash trade for someone like Spezza or Stastny. At least we’d still have the pups making a low salary to plug in if Richards takes a dump.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Not throwing 7 mill at Richards is fine
…with me, but if you think he really is the solution i also wouldnt bitch around 500k.
What really bothers me is why throwing 7mill at Spezza and giving up valuable assets isnt even worse. Did i miss something there? Not getting Richards for 7 mill free while paying Spezza same cash and giving much value back looks like a dumb move avoided to pull an even dumber one.
But by trading an asset, let’s say Girardi, you’re also shedding salary.
Spezza’s deal is only for 4 years at 6.25 a season, take away the money you save by trading Girardi and its only a 3 million dollar add.
While I agree Richards is way better than Spezza, would I rather have Spezza for 4 years at a 3 million dollar increase in payroll, or Richards for 6 years at a 7.5 million dollar increase in payroll?
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 5, 2011 7:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ANYone...
Who thinks we should trade AA is and idiot. Im sorry guys but the thought of that pisses me off. He is gonna be great.
I say give richards 7 years 45 mil. Take it or leave it. He could tuurn out to be like Recchi and just keep going. I want a cup inn the next three years and our homegrown talent as much as I love them, are NOT gonna make that happen.
by l.whit7873 on Jun 5, 2011 2:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah, while AA has loads of potential, the chances that AA becomes better than Stastny are much lower than the chances that he is equal or lesser to Statsny. You already know what you are getting with Stastny, he is proven.
I would probably still off that deal you mention of 7 for $45m, especially front loaded because you could probably move him for the last 2 years.
I would make that deal, but not without hesitation.
Yes, it’s highly unlikely you’re getting more out of AA than what Stastny has proven, but at the same time, if you get, say 55 out of Anisimov at $2m, it’s alot more cost effective than 70 from Stastny at $6.6m.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a non story. Someone from Richards camp put this out to posture for negotiations, probably to counter the news of Richards vacationing with Avery and appearance it was a done deal.
Nobody ever thought there would be a discount. Being a “good fit” doesn’t mean he was expected to bite the pillow during negotiations. He’s a top flight FA in a very mediocre class and he’s getting the last big contract of his career. Everyone has been talking 5Y for 35M.. there isn’t one piece of news in Brooks piece or the piece above that changes anything.
Again..Nobody takes a discount when they are getting the last big contract of their career. He wants 7-8M per year… Glen’s job is to keep it to 5 years and closer to 7.5. At the end of the day its going to get done. Unless, Toronto offers more years and considerably more money. I don’t think Richards passes 5 years at 7.5 from Rangers unless someone else (Toronto) offers a sixth year at equal or more money per.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jun 5, 2011 2:32 PM EDT reply actions
disagree, because in the NHL there are not drawn out negotiations for free agents, most deals are consummated in just a couple of hours, so players are typically pretty up front in what they are looking for
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jun 5, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent point, the Kovalchuk thing got resolved very quickly.
This is an obvious negotiating tactic.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jun 5, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
What
can you buy at 7 mill, that you can’t at 6.5 mill?
R.I.P Derek
Rangers FTW!
by BleedsRangerBlue on Jun 5, 2011 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
$500,000/year doesn't go all that far these days
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
2.5 million is always a lot to pass up. Besides, he may be able to get 7.5 or 8 from a team like Toronto
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jun 5, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Its going to be the years, Rangers won't go more than 5.
Toronto could ante up and go 6.. even at 7M per, thats 7M more than the Rangers likley 5/$35. I think if he was interested in making the playoffs and a run at the cup eventually, he comes to NY. If he want to maximize money he’ll be Leaf.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jun 5, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hope this doesn’t lead to MDZ or Anisimov being dealt. I don’t even want to sign Richards if it’s for more than four years.
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Boyle would be the odd man out.
Can give him 2.5M to be a 4th line center (Richards/Stepan/Ansimov)
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jun 5, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Richards as a Ranger
I’m sure some here will dismiss this because I am a Devils fan. However, not securing Brad Richards when it seems the Rangers have the inside track to do so(at least as good as any other team), would be a mistake. I’ve read the 100+ comments from this story and cannot understand what makes anyone think Richards would be signing for less than $7M per year or for less than 5 years. Several reasons to think he will command at least that much for the foreseeable future.
He made $8M last season with a $7.8M Cap Hit.
Next, he is an elite play-making Center, something the Rangers need badly.
Third, he is the most talented UFA available this season.
By all means, if the Rangers do not pursue and acquire Brad Richards this summer, this Devils fan is a much happier man. However, as long as the Rangers can re-sign both Cally and Duby for less than $4M each, there is Cap room for Richards for more than $7M IMO. I played around on Capgeek.com and came up with this. Would this lineup work for you guys?
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Vinny Prospal ($2.750m) / Brad Richards ($7.500m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon Dubinsky ($3.350m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Ryan Callahan ($3.650m)
Wojtek Wolski ($3.800m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Erik Christensen ($0.925m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.000m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
/ Brian Boyle ($0.850m)
DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Matt Gilroy ($1.000m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / Michael Sauer ($0.850m)
FREE AGENT ($0.750m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,025,000; BONUSES: $637,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $375,000
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
You undershot all of the RFA (except maybe Callahan), overpaid Prospal and left off Erixon who will very likely make the team at $1.75m.
There are ways it gets done, but it’ll require at least one buyouy (Drury or Wolski), and maybe two.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Cally and Dubi will be 3.75 - 4.25 each... Anisimov 2.5 - 3.0.
If Boyle stays, he’s looking at 1.75 to 2.25 probably.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jun 5, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
$3M for Anisimov? That’s surprising to me, considering he has just two seasons (albeit good ones) under his belt.
Well, if those numbers are more accurate (between Cally, Dubi and AA), that’s about $3M more than my numbers. Time to move Wolski for some picks/prospects.
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
AA is a tough one, he's firmly in the 2.5 range.. probably not 3.0.
He really needs to put it together this season.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jun 5, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
What numbers do you see for those RFA’s? I don’t see why Dubinsky would get more than $3.5M. Anisimov, I understand if he did get more, I agree with you on that one.
As far as Wolski, Im sure he could be traded before you would be forced to buy him out.
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
The Brooks article brought up Dubi situation.
Stafford got $4m for 4 years.. I haven’t compared stats but Brooks said they have similar production,
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jun 5, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but Buffalo has room that the Rangers do, so they are able to offer more. So I guess you would be one that do not think the Rangers should aggressively go after Richie?
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
Only if it makes sense. 5 years 35 million...maybe 37.5. No 6th year.
I think two out of these three won’t be back: Drury, WW and Boyle to make sure Richards happens and Cally, Dubi, AA are in the fold.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jun 5, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
$37.5 over 5 years
makes sense to me. That’s where I was thinking, a $7.5M CapHit. But I do think the Rangers can give him an extra year keeping the Avg close to the same.
If they make a play for Richards, no need for Boyle right?
Richards, Drury, Stepan and Anisimov at Center, with Prospal and Dubinsky able to fill in.
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
$7M is even more to waste. I can’t predict the future, but I don’t expect a remarkable improvement in Drury’s contribution. His leadership, penalty killing, and defensive play is replaceable by several other players on the team and I don’t think you spend $7M to keep a guy just for defensive zone faceoffs. For him to play, a young future star has to sit. He can’t be sent to Hartford. So, it is waste $7M or waste $3.7M and free up $3.3M that we need for Richards and RFAs.
I never want to see Drury skate in Rangers blue again!
True
Not like you would go out at this point and sign Drury for $7M, but he is already on the team, so the perspective is a bit different. I just don’t see Captain Drury being bought out, although it may be the best idea. You can always demote Wolski and save similar money.
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
Dubi wanted $4mil in his LAST negotiation, which he didnt get, what makes you think he’d settle for less after basically a career year?
I don't doubt that's what he'll ask for.
But I don’t think that either should get any more than $3.5 million.
I don’t think either of them are worth more than $3.5 million, and that’s based on the fact that Derek Roy and Joe Pavelski make $4 million, and Patrick Sharp makes $3.9 million… Claude Giroux will be making $3.75 million. All of those players are decidedly better than both Callahan and Dubinsky.
Matt Moulson has been as productive as both Callahan and Dubinsky over the past two seasons, and will be making $3.1 for the next 3 seasons.
I've got a lot more coming on the subject
But because I just happened to have run the numbers:
Brandon Dubinsky, ages 22-24: 57-82-139 in 228 games (.61ppg), 10.3 sh%
Joe Pavelski ages 22-24: 58-69-127 in 207 games (.61ppg), 9.9 sh%
Pavelski now is better than Dubinsky now, but I’m not so sure that Dubinsky won’t be at least as good in 2 years.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Now let's look at the totals from the EL contract to the second deal
Brandon Dubinsky: 71- 108- 179 in 316 games (0.566 ppg) from 2006-11
Joe Pavelski- 83- 95- 178 in 275 games (0.647) from 2006-10
I like Dubinsky, and I hope he continues to improve the way that he has the past 2 seasons. But I say let him make the $3.5 million now, and in 2 years demand $4.5 million. If he continues to progress the way he has been, he should be worth at least that.
Do either of you think that Brandon Dubinsky is as good as Joe Pavelski?
And regardless of your answer, Pavelski has Thornton in front of him. Currently, Dubinsky has nobody on the depth chart ahead…
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
I think the difference between them is very small, and that’s with Dubi being two years younger.
Yeah, Joe had 66 points this year, but he also had the league’s best power play (by shots/60) helping buoy his numbers. He had just 35 ES points, and 2.04 per 60. Dubi had 41 ES points and 1.93 per 60.
I think if the Rangers PP wasn’t an abomination, they would’ve had quite similar seasons.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 6, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think that Dubinsky is as good as Pavelski. But I agree with George in that I think that the two year difference between them is key. I’m not unconvinced that when all is said and done that Pavelski will be established as the better player, but it is what it is.
While Pavelski is on pace to become a point-per-game player, his numbers are bolstered by the fact that he plays on the power play with 3 former #1 and 2 picks (Thorton, Marleau, and Heatley).
And while those even strength numbers do tell part of the tale, you have to also remember that Pavelski’s playing the third line checking center role (imagine that…)
The pace that Dubinksy’s on, I wouldn’t count him out being a consistent 65 point player, even with the disparity in talent that surrounds him.
Could it be that Pavelski was a big contributing factor to that PP in San Jose? In checking the numbers, Pavelski only had 17 seconds (per game) more PP time than Dubinsky while playing 1 minute less per game overall. I see Pavelski as a better playmaker playing a regular shift on (at least) the 2nd line in SJ.
But you are right, two years will show us I think.
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
Perhaps compare relative Quality of Team and Relative Quality of Competition for the two.
Pavelski generally played 1st unit PP with the likes of Thornton/Marleau/Heatley. Dubinsky had no such luxury…..
Not to mention Boyle who is one of the better offensive d-men in the league.
Couple of more notes:
Sharks PP generated more than 20 more shots on goal per 60 than the Rangers. That’s an enormous difference in strength.
Pavelski had points on 24/41 PP goals on ice (58%)
Dubi had points on 10/21 PP goals on ice (48%)
The difference there is about 2-4 points percentage wise, which is a couple of bounces.
I’m not trying to demean Pavelski at all, he’s a very good player who does a lot of good, but for whatever reason, people fail to see that Dubinsky’s a very good player himself, and he’s not yet in his prime.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 7, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not dumping on Dubinsky at all. I love him, and don’t get everyone with their “inconsistent” talk. He’s not a consistent producer yet, but he’s at the cusp.
I just mean to say, pay him $4 million when he hits his prime. That money needs to go to elite talent, if they are so inclined to choose the Rangers.
Dubi’s asking $4.5m according to some reports. I think as Gabby says, $4m ala Stafford is plenty. It’s fairly comparable for a 50-55 point LW, plus Dubi’s an all-situation guy.
Cally I’d say $3.65m is fine. He could probably argue for $4 as well, but I think he ends up less.
Anisimov’s going to draw something btwn what Cally/Dubi got in their second contracts, 1.8-2.3m. He had a pretty similar season to theirs coming out of the ELC.
Boyle’s around $1.5m, give or take 500k. I fear they’ll give him $2 b/c of the 20 goal year, but I think Sather will bully this one down.
Sauer I venture will get something like McDonagh, $1.3m or so.
Didn’t see you had Gilroy in there, if he’s back, that’s correct.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
There isn’t ANY reason why Duby should make more than Cally, in fact, I peg Cally at $250k more than Duby. We absolutely should not pat more than $3.75m for Duby and $4m for Cally.
I can think of plenty of reasons Dubi should get more, but the difference between the two isn’t more than a couple hundred thousand, it doesn’t really matter which one gets more.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I was under the same impression as BigB22, that Cally is more valuable than Dubi, outside of taking draws. But if Richards is in the fold, that advantage is muted for Dubi.
I underestimated AA, I see that. If Boyle is looking for that kind of money, how can he fit the Rangers plans as a 4th Line Center making that much money?
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
If they shed Wolski, and as you have it they don’t have Zuccarello in the lineup, Stepan can slide to wing in that situation and Boyle moves to the 3rd line.
Cally is obviously a very big part of the team, but he’s never put up more points than Dubinsky (ppg is another story) and has missed more than 10 games in 3 of his 4 seasons. As I said though, it’s 6 of one, half dozen of the other with how the money between the two is split, they’re fairly equal once you start bringing in the intangibles and stuff.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
crap..2 of his 4 seasons. stupid keys.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct, I would not be including MZA in the original lineup, with him seeing duty when Avery sits in Torts’ doghouse.
If it means the difference of bringing Richards aboard, Im sure you would be ok with jettisoning Boyle, yes?
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
Yeah, I have no attachments to Boyle. I haven’t looked at the bottom 6 centers available, they will need to replace Boyle with someone who will kill penalties and win faceoffs against decent competition. Seems easy enough for the 850k you were giving Boyle.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You would think for sure. I know Adam Mair will be available, hehe
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
Ha, no thanks. I should’ve mentioned it needs to be a guy who can chip in 10-20 points.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 5, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Pre-requisites
Oh, sorry, haha. He fit that bill in Buffalo for a few years, but…
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
Stastny is NOT going to happen. He’s going to be one of Colorados top players and the Rangers would have to give up a lot to get him. Stastny isn’t going to be playing for NY anytime soon.
In theory, you are correct.
But the front office in Colorado is unpredictable.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jun 5, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Colorado
would be making a COLOSSAL mistake moving Stastny without the return being something so significant that no one could turn the deal down.
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
you underestimate two things
1) colorado management seems intent on shooting itself in the foot on trades
2) sather, for all his faults (and oh there are many), is pretty damned good swinging trades in his favor
if sather has photo evidence of greg sherman’s wild weekend in belize with the ladyboys, goats and a stormtrooper costume, a deal will be made for grachev and a 2nd round pick
@joereiter
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mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?"
addendum to the second point
2) sather, for all his faults (and oh there are many), is pretty damned good swinging trades in his favor ****of late; not counting his obsession with other people’s castoffs and reclamation projects and the acquistion of the brothers of superstar players****
@joereiter
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"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?"
stop crushing my hopes and dreams…using NHL 11 logic it works
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Jun 5, 2011 4:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I only use NHL 11 logic.
by MyMarriageIsVeryMessier on Jun 5, 2011 8:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
lol and messier scored every time you shot with him
I listen to Enter Sandman before taking exams. I wear the exact same jersey every Giants game. The Rangers goal song goes off in my head when I achieve small successes in life.
HEN-RIK
by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Jun 5, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Get Brad RIchards.
He’s exactly the type of player the Rangers have been lacking for the past two seasons—a true, No.1, playmaking center. And he’s proven he can play (and thrive) under Tortorella.
I’m not sure why Larry Brooks is playing contract hardball on the Rangers’ behalf—the Rangers have never been shy about spending, they need Brad Richards more than he needs the Rangers, and he’s clearly the best UFA available. His value, as many have stated, will be quite high. He should easily get $7.5 mil/year.
Of course, Sather can also just as easily crunch some numbers, lose some spare parts (or buy out some contracts,) and get a contract done.
It would also cloud the future of Anisimov or Stepan as No.1-2 centers, but that’s another discussion I suppose.
It would only really cloud one of their futures. They are both 2 seasons out from top line duty and BR is likely 2 years out from 2nd line duty. See which youngster develops into that true top line center, and the other is going to unfortunately have to spend some extra years on the 3rd.
Does this player project to a point per game player?
Age 21 – 82GP 16-20-36 +9
Age 22 – 78GP 8-31-39 +9
Age 23 – 76GP 11-31-42 +23
(the answer is yes, it does, and an MVP)
Point, it’s way too early to tell. Chances are you’re correct, simply because there are so few point per game players out there. There are some promising signs with Anisimov (it’s too early to judge Stepan from one season)
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by George E. Ays on Jun 6, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Ha. Yeah, I’ll leave it for reader searching now. He’s in the cup finals though.
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by George E. Ays on Jun 7, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
On a side note….
Thanks to my lady friend and her dvr of every reality show known to man I got to catch my boy Sean on one of those housewife shows..she came in and was all excited “Sean Averys on this housewife reunion show!!” Or whatever it was lol..I’m so proud of how into the Rangers I have gotten her to be..ok back to hockey talk! :)
by Mr. Avery to you on Jun 6, 2011 2:42 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I've said this before but here it is again...
IF and I’m saying IF we sign Brad Richards to a 8 year deal netting him 9 million the first 4 years, 6 and 5 million the next 2, and a 3 & 1 deal to finish out the contract I think that works pretty good. You do not give him a no movement clause or NTC. He gets his big contract the first 6 years at 7 mill average then will get traded right in the middle of the deal (either the 5th or 6th year), all the while we save money on cap space since his hit would be 6.35 million over that time. Worst comes to worst you send him to the AHL for the last 3 years, if he sucks, trade him if he is not in the plans and if he is still a beast than we keep him. Now before I get shot via this thread, anyone see the positives. Also, I have no clue what the 35+ contract looks like so, someone (George) enlighten me.
A 35+ contract
would not factor in here if Richards gets a long-term deal. Only contracts that start after the player has turned 35 have the ramifications of counting against the Cap regardless of if the player is in the Minors, etc.
"Don't worry about my Cap." - Lou Lamoriello
if Richards can get us over the hump, I say sign him
but I feel this team is missing one or two pieces along with Richards. If they can somehow swing for a guy like Stasny or another similar elite scorer at the same time. Yeah, not going to happen, but one can dream right?
as much as I like AA I feel Stasny would be more than adequate to fill needs on this team.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
I agree. I think the immediate answer for the other elite scorer is Jagr. We wouldn’t have to give up anything for him and he would be cheap coming in at 2 million. Put him on a line with Richards and Gabby and you would have the Jagr-Nylander-Straka line on steroids. That could easily be the best producing line in the league next year.
by SaveByRicther on Jun 6, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
You honestly think Jagr’s gonna put up like 90 pts. as a 39 year old? I personally think there’s no chance of that.
No, not 90. But I’m confident he can still go 30-30-60. Easy.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Everyone is assuming
That the numbers listed above means the Rangers are “out”, which means assuming that Glen Sather will do the right thing with the Dolan checkbook, which is a very dangerous assumption.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jun 6, 2011 2:47 PM EDT reply actions
So, you mean that the Rangers are “out” – like you and Eddie are taking over for Sam and Joe in the booth next year??
“FROM THE SIDE”
;-)
Eddie and I wouldn’t make it to the third period.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jun 6, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
you guys wouldn’t make it past the pregame
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
It probably is since I haven’t used it in a while
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Jun 7, 2011 8:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm confused...someone please help
Some people are saying $7M/year is “too much”, yet $6.5M/year is appropriate. Who gives a rats ass over $.5M/year? Everyone’s gonna say he’s over paid if he sucks at $6.5M/year anyways, so just pay the mother f*cker $500K more per season and let’s win a f*cking Cup.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know—the difference spread out over 4 or 5 years could be a couple million bucks. BFD….if he wins, then who cares? If he sucks, then $2M bucks wouldn’t have mattered anyways over the course of a few seasons.
The Rags need a f*cking playmaker, let’s get one, and see what he can do for Christ’s sake.
MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you know its funny, its just media speculation
Sather’s been hot for Richards for awhile now and I am sure he will go after him
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
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