New York Rangers Analysis: Full Attention Turned To Callahan; Dubinsky Signing
by Bryan Winters on Jul 22, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
in New York Rangers Analysis
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Now that Brandon Dubinsky's contract is finally signed, the New York Rangers full attention can now turn to their final RFA, Ryan Callahan. Ranger fans have been dreading this past Thursday for weeks, hoping that Dubinsky would not reach arbitration. The dream came true when the Rangers and Dubinsky settled on a four-year deal.
The Rangers can now shift their main focus to Ryan Callahan. Now, Callahan has a look at some similar figures in which he will receive from the Rangers. As stated before, there has been on-going debates on what figures both players would receive, everyone now has a base offer for Callahan. Some say Callahan should receive more, and some say he should receive less than Dubinsky.
Follow me after the jump for my opinion on Callahan and the Dubinsky signing:
As George stated in an earlier article, Callahan should clock in about $3.75 million. He states that his contract is not solely based on skill level, but games played. I could agree with that figure, but would not be surprised if he receive a little more. Based on Dubinsky's numbers, his agent would most likely try to get him around the same. Callahan brings the leadership on and off the ice; Dubinsky brings the grit and toughness along with his leadership. Both play a huge role, and I'm not sure where this team would be without them.
Now on to Dubinsky's new contract. This was another one of Sathers great signings this off-season. Simply put, he is "killing it" as some would say. Bringing back Dubinsky adds even more leadership and he also has offensive ability to put at least 20-30 goals a season. Along with his offensive ability, he brings toughness and sometimes will even drop the gloves for his teammates.
At the end of day, this team is stronger than it was yesterday. We've had to say that a lot this off-season, I'm truly liking what Sather has done this off-season.
What are your thoughts guys? How do you feel about Dubinsky's new contract?
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Just like BR was a “must have” signing Dubi and Cally to long-term deals were “must signs.” Very reasonable contract over the 4 years. Cally will come in at around $4.5M per. The only downside is that Cally may get 5 years which is a mistake because I predict he will have an injury-filled career unless he changes the way he plays because of his size. Cally can play his game without hitting someone every 2 seconds. But that’s what the market bears so it will probably be the case.
I like Callahan but he isn’t getting as much as Dubi the only reason they are in the same ballpark is because Callahan has the balls to slide in front of a slapshot from Chara. He is a very healthy kid its not like he’s twisting his ankle skating circle drills. With that being said expect him to sign today or tomorrow at about 4m for 4yrs.
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 7:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he will get more as the expected next captain. my point about the injuries is that Cally is really small in stature in comparison to the way he plays. fans love that about him but the fact remains that playing against bigger and faster players will wear him down over time. Cally can’t change his size but he can modify his game. there is such a thing as “hitting too much.” That supposedly is Valtank’s problem for the Whale. He takes himself out of position because he always looks to hit someone. Cally has done that as well at times.
Callahan = .267 goals per game
Dubinsky = .224 gpg
goals usually get paid more than points, but who knows
I absolutely agree Cally has no problem putting an opponent in to the boards and he doesn’t get hurt that way so I don’t even know why we are talking about that. And Sean you’re right scoring gets more money that’s why Dubi’s 179 gets more than Cally’s 144
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 7:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Callahan is a better pure goal scorer than Dubi. If he modifies his game this season to focus less on brutal hits and more on finishing, he should remain healthy and score 30 + goals. Dubi should be the grinder on that line anyway becuase he is bigger and stronger.
Seriously...
He already is and still scores more
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 8:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Callahan a better goal scorer?
Based on what? I love the guy but he does not have the same offensive projection that Dubinsky has. Dubi is future first line forward while Callahan will be patrolling the second line putting up 40-45pts a season
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by Kevin Power on Jul 22, 2011 9:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cally
He had 48 in 60 games last season…You think Dubi is still developing but Cally has peaked? That doesn’t make sense.
by I.LikeMittens on Jul 22, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
8K is absolutely correct. Dubi has a bigger upside offensively. and Town is right on with what I am saying. Cally’s smaller stature will force him to cut back on physical play over the long haul. I don’t know why there’s confusion about that.
His physical play dictates his scoring capabilities? They are comparable offensive is all I’m saying, I don’t see where this sudden gap has come from in their offensive projections, when they have historically similar numbers.
Are we trying to negotiate his terms right now? It seems like you are undercutting Cally’s importance as a scorer to this team. I don’t think his agent is reading this, and neither is Sather…
by I.LikeMittens on Jul 22, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see where this sudden gap has come from in their offensive projections, when they have historically similar numbers
Dubi’s a year younger and has been the more consistent even strength player.
They are definitely comparable, but aside from the stretch after Cally’s first injury last year, Dubi’s always been the more productive player relative to age, aside from goals, which for two years now Callahan has had to lean on the power play to maintain.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t understand why we are being so nit picky about how and where the goals were scored. Is it not safe to say that both players are extremely important to this team, and both should be valued as such? Why do we have to smack presumptuous labels on the two? As far as are offense goes, they both are important, and the numbers don’t lie.
by I.LikeMittens on Jul 22, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
ES numbers are much more likely to be repeatable year to year. Bigger samples, less reliant on giant jumps in luck/bounces/voodoo/whatever you want to call it.
Yes, in the long run it doesn’t matter where the goals come from, but when you’re talking about the ceiling of a player, it’s much more reliable to site a players’ ES production, as that is the one most likely to continue year to year, save for a few guys like Heatley who seemingly drive a PP themselves.
Cally has a lot of value, and no one is saying he’s somehow not important to the team. When you’re talking contracts though, those are subtle differences in the two that the intangible story doesn’t make up for.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
so what are you saying Cally is worth, George? I’d personally offer them identical contracts but give Cally a fifth year at a step up from Dubi because he’s a year older.
ps
Haven’t finished reading the posts so forgive me if this is a repeat.
d
I'm sticking to my guns
I’ve said basically all along that Duballahan would/should get $8m, and thus that means Cally’s contract slots in or around 4/$15m, which is what I came up with my fancystats analysis on it as well. Every year that tacks on is worth $4.16m based on that rate (and based on previously done calculations out there that say RFAs years generally get discounted 40%)
I’m sensing as it goes on that I’m going to be wrong and he’ll slot in at $4m or more. We’ll see.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Not saying Cally has peaked
just saying that Dubinsky has a higher offensive ceiling than Callahan does based on his style of play and talent level, both are higher end talent Dubinsky just has first line offensive talent that Callahan doesn’t
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Dubi is a better all-around player, I’m just saying Cally is a better finisher/pure goal scorer. Dubi will alwasy put up more points.
Last season was the first season that Callahan has outproduced Dubinsky.
Callahan has only scored more goals than Dubinsky in one season (2008-9) of the 4 they’ve played together.
Callahan also saw his shooting percentage jump from a 9.1% from his previous 3 years to 12.8% last year.
Everything you’re saying is based on one year. All the numbers say that Dubinsky is a better finisher and goal scorer. And I’m not counting juniors because, well, juniors don’t count.
Let’s wait to see about that before we start making presumptions. In all honesty I believe if Callahan had played 15 more games you would be saying the exact opposite. 2 inches and 10 pounds is not that drastic of a size difference…
by I.LikeMittens on Jul 22, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, who alwasy seems to be the playmaker and who alwasy seems to be the goal scorere in the dubi/cally connection? That’s all I’m saying.
The guys that get to the top of the points leaderboard are the ones piling up assists, not goals.
Of the guys fowards that were the top 30 in scoring, the fewest assists is 30 (Jeff Carter), 32 (Kesler), and 34 (Briere, Nash)
The fewest goals is 19 (H. Sedin, Ribiero, Getzlaf)
This was the first year Callahan even broke 20 assists, while Dubi’s had at least 24 every year.
If we’re judging ceiling by total points, it should be pretty clear Dubi’s got a better shot at being that guy.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I said above that Dubi is the better all-around player and will rack up more points. Callahan is just a better scorer.
Yeah I know, that was as a good a place as any for me to put that, because Cally’s goal scoring seems to be carrying all the weight in arguments these days.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
how so?
dubinsky’s point totals over his career remain very consistent (40 in 82, 41 in 82, 44 in 69, 54 in 77)
callahan has shown more growth throughout his career (13 in 52, 40 in 81, 47 in 77, and 48 in 60)
so not sure how you can you say dubinsky has a higher offensive ceiling, he’s been performing pretty close to the same since he came up
by brodeur hearts avery on Jul 22, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Two things:
Dubinsky, dating all the way back to his 16 year old season at juniors, has shown a pattern of taking two years to make his leaps, for whatever weird reason.
Secondly, correct it for age:
21: Cally 6/14 Dubi 40/82
22: Cally 13/52 Dubi 41/82
23: Cally 40/81 Dubi 44/69
24: Cally 47/77 Dubi 54/77
25: Cally 48/60 Dubi ?
While Dubi has certainly had a flatter line in his growth, every step of the way he’s been better than Cally so far.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Forgot
I would also like to point out that he scored 23 goals in those 60 games, while Dubinsky scored 24 in 77.
by I.LikeMittens on Jul 22, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly…I know it might have been lost on a lot of people because Cally was out of the lineup for so many games, but he was showing finishing ability and hands that really no one else (other than gabby against the isles and oilers) showed
Dubi will prove out to be the better offensive player especially as time goes on. He is built much better to be able to go to the net as he is good at getting garbage goals. Which is why he stays on LW as opposed to center. Not having as much defensive responsibilities as LW as compared to center allows him to go to the net. Which is why I always wanted Dubi on wing even though he’s good at face-offs.
I'd still say
That Anisimov has the best offensive talent out of the pack line. Whether that translates to production is another story, but I think he has much better hands and a decently deceptive shot than either Dubi or Cally.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Jul 22, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
agree with this
I just think Cally has that “nose for the net” that i wish anismov had. If Arty took more shots and drove to the net more often, we would see some special things happen.
Anisimov jumped his shot total by 66 SOG as a 22 year old. If he does that again, he may score 30 before the other two.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Not saying it will happen, but I think all 3 members of the packl ine have 30 goal potential.
+1
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Several weeks ago I said the pack line IS going to score 90 goals this season if they are all healthy and I got flamed for it. It worked out to 8.3 goals more per player. With Cally missing 22 games, Dubi missing several, and AA continued improvement, If they don’t get 90, they will come awful close. (***As long as they stay healthy). AA has enormous potential. If he can put his total game together and be consistent, watch out.
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by nathansfamous on Jul 22, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh c’mon now, you didn’t get flamed. You had one person say “90 is a shit load” and me comment that you should relax on the 90 goal thing.
Yes, they have potential, but I stand by the relax statement. One might hit 30 this year, but it’s really, really unlikely they hit 90 as a group.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If i had a drink or two I would make a healthy bet with another team’s fan that 2/3 of the pack line will hit 30 this year.
It isn’t preposterous, if you break it down. Dubi getting fed by Brad Richards with all of that space created by being on a line with Richie and Gaborik could easily produce 30 goals if he plays 75+ games. Lets say Arty thrives in the second line center position slotted behind Richards. Callahan would be on his Right wing, and the player most deserving who steps up and takes the top 6 position would be on the left. One of Arty or Cally could hit 30 if they stay healthy and the line really gets going.
Brad, whether he is a gamechanger on the ice or not, changes the dynamic of our entire lineup. It makes Tortorella’s job a whole lot easier when the roles are defined as they are.
You have your #1 offensive power line in Dubi-Richie-Gaborik
You have your second line, the #1 defensive line that consists of (left wing that steps up)-Arty-Cally
Then you have the third line, your second offensive line
Wolski*-Stepan-Zuc
- If Wolski’s play merits a spot in the top six, it will go to someone like fedetenko, or Hagelin.
fourth line, second defensive line
Feds/Hagelin/Avery-Boyle-Rupp
by The Blue Seats on Jul 23, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I get the optimism, but 30 goal seasons are becoming exceedingly rare these days (only like 25-30 of them a season), and to think we’ll have 3, or even 4 of them on the team this year is alot to ask.
There just so many ifs, I don’t see how 90 goals for that trio is near a realistic expectation, at least not this season. I’d sign for 75 right now and run away.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 23, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but thats 30 goals for 2 of them, with Dubinsky not on the same line.
Its possible for all 3 to score 30, but having three guys on the same line score 30 is pretty close to impossible.
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True. But if I said I made a far out prediction and everyone agreed, where is the fun in that? Definitely a shit load of goals, but I think we’ll be on fire this season.
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by nathansfamous on Jul 23, 2011 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I was just going to say
AA’s shooting pct is already up to Cally’s. If he can generate more shots then he could fill the net a bit more.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Jul 22, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
which is why you leave the pack line intact and put Stepan at 1st line LW. That would make 2 very strong lines.
by Richter1994 on Jul 22, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
You don’t need to put Step on the 1st line to make that line strong. Nor do you have to keep Dubi with AA/Cally to keep that line strong.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
how about
Dubi-Richards-Gabi
AA-Step-Callahan
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by Kevin Power on Jul 22, 2011 12:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Step’s the wing there, but I have no issue with that. Still think Wolski belongs in the top 6. The problem is the cap thing is going to force MZA out I think, in which case there’s no good solution for Step’s wings.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
my opposition to Wolski even being on the team is well documented. I think even mainstream media knows how I feel, lol. got to camp, try and trade him, and if not, let him help the Whale and get his entire $$ off the cap. sorry Hoggo, lol.
by Richter1994 on Jul 22, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
8K, like it, but switch Stepan and AA like George said.
by Richter1994 on Jul 22, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be very upset if Stepan spent major time as a winger.
His skill set is quintessential for a playmaking center, and he should be developed as such.
by The Blue Seats on Jul 22, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
If he
Continues to be dreadful on faceoffs then it should be considered.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Jul 22, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
considered yes, but it isn’t ridiculous to think that he can improve his paltry percentage to around 46% even if it is never one of his strengths.
by The Blue Seats on Jul 22, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I already posted the striking similarity in boxscores to Cogliano here
Cogliano’s faceoffs:
Year Faceoff %
2007-08 38.3%
2008-09 36.7%
2009-10 43.0%
2010-11 41.6%
No, it’s not ridiculous to think Step can improve better than that, but given Step’s 38.5% this year (good for 4th worst since the lockout), and 2nd worst among rookies), but it’s a considerable concern that he won’t improve to a passable level right now.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I prefer him there with BR to get a birds eye view of what a #1 does. great for his development and for down the road as a #2 center (assuming BR is #1).
I think he can learn more taking notes from the bench and especially in practice. It is harder to watch all of the vastly important little things on the ice than from the bench, when he can dissect and scrutinize every play.
That isn’t to say he can’t learn a thing or two if he plays on the same line as Richards
by The Blue Seats on Jul 22, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I never played ice hockey (just street hockey) so I don’t know whether it’s better to watch on the bench or to be actually involved on the ice for development purposes. my assumption was to be on the ice at the same time.
Much better to learn from the bench.
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When I played ice hockey I felt like I learned more on the ice you have to watch everybody on the ice and have to think with them, and other way around which helps them teach you more when you’re all back on the bench
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 6:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What is that supposed to mean…?
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 23, 2011 5:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
To a point yes. You learn more of the dynamics while on the ice, and the overall team game.
But no one is going to learn how to play center better while playing LW with a good center. Thats not going to happen.
Plus, if you “look” around too much, than you get hit. Hard.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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Much better to learn on the ice. Watching from the bench or video is great for rounding out your game and correcting mistakes, but nothing like playing. (Btw, played street, roller,deck until I was 12, then played ice until 21. Too many stories to tell…….)
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by nathansfamous on Jul 23, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
okay – I get that “learning on the ice” is essential…. but we’re talking about the fuckin NHL. A sophomore, one year removed from college, is not going to learn the center position, at this level, by learning to play a new position at the highest level of competition in the world. Just not gonna happen. He’ll be in a whole new level of play, and he’ll have to worry so much more about his role as LW, that he won’t be able to concentrate on center simultaneously.
I doubt this is in response to me, but first and foremost, a player needs to have the basics. They are as follows:Skating, Stick Handling, Passing, Shooting. A player needs these basic skills. If they master these skills, then they are way ahead of the game. Once you have the basics, and some common sense, or hockey sense, one should essentially be able to play at any position. Sure you won’t be great at any one, but you can do it. If a player has mastered the basic skills to an NHL level, then he should be able to play any position at a basic NHL level. No, he won’t be an elite player , but he should be ok. This applies especially if you learned to play as a defenseman first. Saying that after the basics and having common sense, then you get into positional play. To me, that was as much as common sense. Sometimes you take chances and are ok, sometimes you get burned. Rant over.
Can’t wait for season to start. Lets go Rangers.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
by nathansfamous on Jul 24, 2011 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
how is he supposed to learn to be a center when he’s concentrating on what it takes to be a top line LW? This argument has never made sense to me. Give him at least one more year at center. Its too early in his career to say he needs to switch.
by j-red on Jul 22, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess it depends
On whether you view his development against top 6 competition or position specific development more important. If he’s a center, odds are he’ll get stuck as the 3rd line center. If he’s a winger, he gets a chance to play in the top 6.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Jul 22, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
He will get plenty of playing time under torts regardless of the number line he was on. Last season, Torts rode the Feds-Boyle-Prust line, our proverbial “third line”
by The Blue Seats on Jul 22, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll say Wolski is somewhat of an enigma, but has incredible talent. He just is not consistent. I liked what I saw last season though. If you make it to the playoffs, you definitely want him on board.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
by nathansfamous on Jul 22, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It will come down to who earns their spot in training camp. Torts is fair in that regard.
by The Blue Seats on Jul 23, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
Arty has a deadly accurate shot, the only downside is his slow release.
by The Blue Seats on Jul 22, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
We have 5.777 under the cap. So that means if Callahan signs a similar deal to Dubinsky or even better he is going to take 4mil away from the cap this year leaving us 1.777. That is more than plenty to get us a 7th D. I can’t believe im saying this… great job Sather
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 7:29 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I could be wrong but...
I don’t think I am. According to capgeek we have 20 roster players right now, 13 forwards, 2 goalies and 5 defenseman with $5.7mil+/- in cap space. If Cally signs for $4mil we will have the $1.7777 to sign the 6th and the 7th defenseman, not just the 7th.
It appears to me that there is more work that needs to be done to fill out this roster. I think Sather and Torts are going to have to buy-out a contract, move a forward to CT or make a trade to get this team a full roster AND under the cap.
you're not wrong, but...
it seems like most of the people around here believe that Del Zotto will find his way back to the team as the 6th D. In that case, they’ll have to sign some 7th defenseman for under 700k, which is possible, but probably not Eminger, who everyone seems to want.
Another possibility is that they simply sign a veteran as this 6th defenseman, and have that whole $1.7M to use on him.
And yet the final, and most likely scenario, is that one or two of those 13 forwards find themselves, in the AHL, waived, or bought out, 1 D from within the system joins the NHL squad, and 1 D is signed as a FA. -This way, there’s enough room for whoever.
Yeah, don’t think about this too hard guys. We don’t typically carry 14 forwards with 2 healthy scratches. EC is going to be starting the season in Hartford if we get Eminger at that price.
I think we do...
We carried a 23 man roster most of last season which included 14 forwards, 2 goalies and 7 defenseman. I’m not sure this was the case the entire season but it was early on.
Tortorella has gone on record to say that
he hates “spare parts hanging around” so we’ll see about that. It doesn’t seem to apply to defensemen though, he loves his 7th defenseman.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 22, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
healthy scratches aren't exactly "spare parts"
they’re completely necessary. Just ask Lou how he enjoyed carrying a 20 man roster last year for a short while. Last year Todd White was one of our “spare parts” as was Avery at times and a number of others. Most coaches want to go with a full 23 man roster, if cap space allows.
The "spare parts" thing were Tortorella's words
At the end of the day, a 7th defenseman is necessary, especially with the youth we have on our blue line.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 22, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe, I know it's Tort's words...
I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. I’m just pointing out that as things currently stand we are very close to being out of cap space and that we do not have $1.7mil to sign just 1 player. I think what Tort’s was saying is that he doesn’t want players in the organization that he has no intention of playing. He doesn’t mean he won’t carry a full roster because he considers healthy scratches as spare parts.
I think we agree there is still more “activity” to come. There has to be or Tort’s will be constricted by the cap.
Not only that, but when we play 17 games in March, we will need some of those spare parts to step up.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
by nathansfamous on Jul 22, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If Hagelin impresses and gets in the lineup it would help.
He makes 400K less than EC and 1.1MM less than MZA. But Torts will only keep him if he’s going to play. Which I think he will on 4th line with Rupp at center and Prust on the other wing.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jul 22, 2011 8:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You get a little extra room also if Valentenko makes it instead of Del Zotto. We’ll see how things go at camp. Realistically, I see those young guys not making it out of camp but we’d see them if there are any injuries.
Watch out next year though. We will be great this year but I get chills thinking about 2012-2013 and 2013-2014.
it'll get done
as long as Cally’s agent isn’t Sith Boras.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Much as it pains me to admit...
I, too, have been quite pleased with how the Cubans and fashnagles, as JD would say, have been handed out by Slats this off-season. It’s so nice when, as a fan, you have an idea how things should go and they are executed according to what you hope will happen. Just wish I could say the same for Tort’s coaching / line decisions, but hey, it’s the off-season so no need to sweat that right now.
Just the fact that Cally & Dubi elected to go to arb. made me happy b/c it meant they were both staying put. The thought of either of them wearing a diff. uniform @ MSG is as unsettling as Eddie wearing #31 in red & white, Adam’s #9 in teal, black & white and Brian wearing #22 in black and gold. Glad I don’t have to see anything like that in the near future. :)
What the hell… I still try to pretend #2 was always red white and blue
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 8:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Call should get similar deal to Dubi
But his average should be slightly higher because he only has one RFA year left. Could be looking at something with total value around 17.5MM to 18MM over 4 years.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jul 22, 2011 8:23 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Wait, everyone panicked over #Dubacaylpse
But everyone is now cool with #Callaclysm?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Jul 22, 2011 9:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
well
back to the fallout shelter
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
not quite
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Jul 22, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Its just the rumors that surrounded dubacaylpse like wanting 5mil. If that happens to Callahan callaclysm will be a much bigger threat. Everyone loves him he will be signed.
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 6:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I guess with Callihan's contract we find out who is Batman and who is Robin.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Jul 22, 2011 10:38 AM EDT reply actions
Sergey Nemchinov (general manager CSKA): Pashnin decided to try his hand in the NHL
Pashnin refuses to renew the contract with CSKA Moscow and wants to play in America.
by starina.fanat.ru on Jul 22, 2011 11:05 AM EDT reply actions
“Callahan brings the leadership on and off the ice; Dubinsky brings the grit and toughness along with his leadership.”
They both bring leadership… but only Dubi offers grit and toughness??? I think Cally is twice as tough and twice and gritty as Dubi.
Nothing against #17, but Callahan hits & blocks more than anyone, and can mix it up in a fight just as well (if not better) than Dubi too. I don’t really get the point of that initial comment.
Pierre McGuire needs to go away.
by MartyEqualsPansy on Jul 22, 2011 12:23 PM EDT reply actions
does it really matter
Who has more “grit”? The main point should be that both are invaluable cogs to our rebuilt offensive machine
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Jul 22, 2011 12:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, that should be the main point. Which is why I found it strange when that comment basically down-played Cally’s grit and toughness.
Pierre McGuire needs to go away.
by MartyEqualsPansy on Jul 22, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
its not down playing it
Cally’s grit and toughness are a secondary factor compared to his offensive ability that should determine his contract
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Jul 22, 2011 12:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not YOU. The initial comment in the post:
Based on Dubinsky’s numbers, his agent would most likely try to get him around the same. Callahan brings the leadership on and off the ice; Dubinsky brings the grit and toughness along with his leadership.
It implies that Dubi has grit and Callahan does not. And I’m just saying it’s a very inaccurate statement.
“Cally has A. But Dubi has A PLUS B.”
Pierre McGuire needs to go away.
by MartyEqualsPansy on Jul 22, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely NOT!!
8k, you seem to be missing MEP’s main point. Think about it. Cally is not the front-runner to wear the “C” because of his G/A/P’s or even his shot blocking. He’s not even a 1st line player, to many poster’s points, for goodness sakes. But the bottom line, in every sense of the words, is It’s the unique factor that the entire package of him being a COMPLETE player who can hit, score, pass, skate, inspire, block, lead, PK, fore check, back check, play good defensively (which except for the very-skewed +/- stat is very under represented on the score sheet BTW), etc., etc., etc. that strengthens his overall appeal and subsequent worth vs. only some of Dubi’s skills that are arguably slightly better, at times.
However, the fact remains that most GM’s likely go into arbitration with a guy like Cally saying things just about verbatim to what you just posted: that his “stats” are what they are and he deserves X amount of $$ based on them and only them and perhaps vs. other players in the league’s “market” with similar stats.
The question for Ryan and his agent becomes: how do you quantify and then ultimately put a price tag on his, or any player’s for that matter, “intangibles?” That’s what makes/made both of these guys contracts so sticky to negotiate, and even more impressive that Dubi and GS didn’t need the hearing to hash it out.
Hopefully, the same goes for #24 b4 his hearing date is quickly upon us. :)
-1
We paid a lot for Drury’s intangibles and we all know how that ended. You pay for production and maybe add a few dollars for intangibles, not the other way around.
Manning lobs it, Burress alone, touchdown New York!
For the empty net, Mark Messier... do you believe it?! Do you believe it?! He said we will win game 6 - he has just picked up the hat trick!
+1
To your -1. Which I guess equals 0.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Jul 22, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Point well taken but...
1) we’re not anywhere near $7M. And that was how many years ago and Cally’s still looking for much less than that despite inflation?
2) w.r.t.Drury, he came in with some very “tangibles” actually: a Cup win, a Calder and more clutch goals ON THE SCORESHEET, than you can count. Personally, I think, like Leetch, the Captaincy and to a much greater degree than Brian obviously, the spotlight/NYC thing weighed heavily on Chris, not to mention the large contract and its expectations. If he had signed at $4-5M, came in with maybe an A on his sweater, and killed PK’s, blocked shots, won faceoffs, and scored more than the odd goal (sans last year) and stayed healthy, I don’t think fans would have had a problem with him. Of course, that’s alot of “ifs”!
3) Cally’s a very diff player, has more of and different intangibles, a much more outgoing, outspoken, visible leadership personality, and I think is more versatile than Chris was (PP for example). Just like BR’s signing vs Gomez or Drury, it’s Big Apples vs. Florida Oranges. :)
And, BTW, this whole production over intangible argument I keep reading here is wearing thin. Gabby’s a perfect example of why that shouldn’t always be the case. If he had more of the intangebles, for example, then his lack of production last year woulda been less of an issue. Plain and simple. Hitting, PK, sticking up for teammates, shot blocking…you never hear very much about players going into major slumps w.r.t. to those aspects, esp Cally, but u sure as hell do w.r.t. G/A/P. I think its because getting tense and holding the stick tighter can majorly affect your offense, but if your a banger or killing PK, the instincts predominate and actually help relieve any tension by getting you mentally and physically into the game quickly and they also tend to stay around without long stretches of being absent. Just one fan’s theory. :)
disagree on cally being a better fighter than dubi big time
not knocking cally, but dubi i can remember fighting richards 500 times and going with ovechkin
having a hard time remembering one of cally’s fights
@joereiter
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mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
I think he fought Comrie. Then I was at a game where he had stick up for himself when he nailed an Isles player. He doesn’t fight as often as Dubi, but Dubi doesn’t fight as often as he used to either.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Jul 22, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
it's generally how it goes for younger guys
you need to fight to prove yourself….unless you’re mike bossy or teemu selanne and you come into the league scoring 60-70 goals a year
once you let it be known you’re willing to drop the gloves (and moreso if you pull an evander kane and knock somebody the eff out), you find yourself needing to drop the gloves less frequently
the one exception to the rule is the enforcer, especially the so-called ‘heavyweight champion of the league’ who always needs to prove himself against the new tough guys looking to make a name for themselves
the more this part of the game is scrubbed out the sadder it makes me
@joereiter
Blueshirt Banter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
I’d prefer Duby and Cally on the ice.
by The Blue Seats on Jul 22, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
But I remember that fight it was a good one
Mike Comrie had a lot to say to Cally before they went. I guess he isn’t a Hilary Duff fan.
by The Blue Seats on Jul 22, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh no he did NOT just call hilary duff a skunk…lol
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 6:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Skank stupid auto-correct
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 6:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He doesn’t fight very often – and that’s a good thing. He’s way too valuable to risk getting hurt. But when he does fight, he’s very effective. Hopefully Dubi’s fight number continues to drop as well, he’s too vital.
Pierre McGuire needs to go away.
by MartyEqualsPansy on Jul 22, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
To be honest
Dubi fights more, but when they actually do throw down, I don’t see much of a difference. I don’ t know how you can say one is better than the other.
Is everyone forgetting how crosbitch is so scared of Dubi that he has to hide behind refs!
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 22, 2011 6:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have to break it to all of you trying to seperate Dubi and Cally as scorers…they’re basically the same. They both play on the same line, came up as Hartford hopefulls, thrive playing a physical game, while scoring to dirty grinding goals, as well as break away snipes that catch goalies off guard. They hit, block shots, they are virtually the same player. Just had to get that out LOL.
by louielounz1 on Jul 22, 2011 1:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It’s true, they are cut from the same cloth. Personally, I hope Cally stops blocking shots as much, plays for close to the full 82, and scores 30.
"To everybody else we're underdogs, but we go in thinking we can handle any team in the NHL."
Brandon Prust, #8, New York Rangers
Here here Joe, you said it. I think its time to make sure they move away from howitzer shots, imo.
by louielounz1 on Jul 22, 2011 8:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
SO, assuming Cally gets a similar deal and Erixon makes the team..
Instead of buying out Wolski, just put Zucs in the minors with his 1.75 mil deal.
Or of course we can just trade Christensen to Montreal.
Dubi Richards Gaborik
Wolski Anisimov Callahan
Feds Stepan Hagelin/Christensen/Thomas
Rupp Boyle Prust
Avery
Staal Girardi
Sauer McD
Erixon MDZ/Valentenko
Eminger
So the winner of the MDZ/Valentenko battle will make the team, and the winner of the Thomas/Hagelin/Christensen battle will make the team, with all the losers going back to Hartford or the OHL.
The $ works too, just as long as Cally doesn’t get north of 4.5
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Or of course we can just trade Christensen to Montreal.
Stop reading hockeybuzz.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL, it’s entertaining. AND Ek says: “it would be a great move for the Habs.” LOL, how would he know? See what happens when you don’t watch a player regularly? I’ll drive EC to the airport.
It was on twitter this morning.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, why not…he’s small enough
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
So you read it too!!!
:)
Its fun stuff George. I don’t actually believe what he says.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Callahan's value around the league
Just seems to be a tick higher than Dubinsky’s. Reading newspaper beat writers, TSN, ESPN, THN’s stuff… that “leadership” x-factor that Cally has is gonna push his contract value over Dubinsky’s if the Rangers can lock him up long term.
My prediction is that he either gets a 4-5 year deal at close to $5 mil per, or the two sides go to arbitration where he locks into a one-year deal at around $4 mil and bolts for free-agency after the 2011-12 season.
4 to five years.
4 years = 18 million… would be my guess. if hes our future captain!
4 years 18 mil?
you wanna give him almost 6 mil a year? No thank you
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
....
no
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
4 years at 18 million is 4.5/yr…unless I’m missing something, to which I would apologize haah
by Peter North Stars on Jul 22, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
somebody doesn't have a mathlete certificate on their wall.....
@joereiter
Blueshirt Banter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Can someone get the man a calculator..that’s just wrong.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jul 22, 2011 5:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I can’t do math…at all…obviously
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
You don’t need the math. That’s why George gets paid the big bucks around here. You just keep dropping your pearls of wisdom, leave the long division to the quant.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jul 22, 2011 11:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
4.25, 4.25. 4.75 4.75 simply bc he puts up more points than dubi thus far!
not to mention his hitting, potential “c” and his abilitly to block shots give him a slight edge over dubi. I think they deserve the same contract though and after the 4 years the better player will and deserve more than the other..
At this point anything at or under 18 mill. 4 years is good for both sides, i would not want callahan to become a free agent if he puts up 30 goals next season and stays healthy, lots of teams want him now. and would like that kind of player for their cup run..
simply bc he puts up more points than dubi thus far!
He what now?
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 22, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
WOOOH!!!
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I really love Cally, the only thing is
he has gotten hurt a lot of late, but I feel he is the captain so he must be resigned a long term deal equal to Dubis
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
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