New York Rangers Analysis: The Rangers Don't Need Another Elite Winger
Ever since the New York Rangers took care of their five restricted free agents and the year-long quest to obtain coveted free agent Brad Richards, fans eyes have hungrily turned towards the potential of adding another elite winger to the squad. On paper the idea sounds great, getting another top-flight talent to add to an already lethal Marian Gaborik-Richards line.
But in reality, a move makes little sense for a plethora of reasons.
We'll start with the money aspect, which is the most glaring problem. Currently the Rangers have just a hair over $700,000 in cap space, not nearly enough money for the type of contract an elite winger would possess. That's not even enough space to fit both Tim Erixon and Michael Del Zotto under the cap, like we discussed yesterday.
The only way the Rangers would be able to acquire such a talent is if they traded for one, and relieved some of their higher paid players in the deal. Which brings me to my next point: The price.
You don't need me to tell you that elite wingers don't just grow on trees. They're generally drafted, groomed and see most of their prime with one team. Some of the obvious exceptions are Gaborik, Dany Heatley and Marian Hossa. But, typically, top-flight wingers don't hit free agency until they are around 30-years-old. So the only way the Rangers could get one is to acquire him via trade.
Join me after the jump for more.
The Rangers currently have one of the richest pipelines in the NHL. Thus, they can technically get any elite winger who happens to be on the market. Fortunately, the Rangers aren't willing to part with many of the pieces it would cost to get another superstar. Are you willing to part with the likes of Christian Thomas, Derek Stepan, Chris Kreider, Tim Erixon, Michael Del Zotto or Artem Anisimov (just to name a few)?
You shouldn't be. In the end, it's not worth it unless it's for a player like Steven Stamkos (who isn't going anywhere).
Incidentally, the prospects play a big role in this debate as well. Not only do you not want to trade them, you need to keep space for them. If the Rangers brought in another elite winger, he would be taking up a roster spot from a prospect. Although Thomas is a long shot to make the team out of camp this year, next him both him and Kreider can find themselves starting the year with the big club.
Assuming you don't lose the two via trade, do you really want them to have to wait for a chance to make the team because their position is filled by an aging winger? Both Kreider and Thomas have game-breaker potential, something you would be trading for to get right now instead of just waiting a year or two to have it grow organically.
The last point is a strange one to make, considering the problems the Rangers have had with it the past two years. But currently, scoring is not a concern for the Rangers this upcoming season.
Richards figured to drop around 70 points (I'm being conservative) and is expected to help get Gaborik back to the 40-goal plateau. Anisimov and Stepan are expected to make jumps in production, as are Brandon Dubinsky and Ryan Callahan (although to a lesser degree than the other two). Brian Boyle is expected to contribute another 20 goals (not unreasonable) and, believe it or not, Mike Rupp can contribute a few goals as well.
Add that into a more potent power play (thanks to Richards) and a better rounded top-three lines (thanks to Richards) and scoring shouldn't be a problem.
So it just doesn't make sense to give up assets for something that doesn't need to be fixed. Especially when those assets are just a year away in some cases, and will help add to the offense. So I preach for you to be patient, good things are on the horizon for both next year and the future after that.
Thoughts guys?
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It is proven time and time again that depth helps a team win. The Canucks had the skill but the Bees had the depth to roll 4 lines and the goaltending to ultimately win. Injuries occur all the time and trading 3 players for one can actually dilute the team even if that one player is an elite player. I like the team the way it is with the prospects we have behind them. Look at Miller. Ok he was just signed but it would be dumb to send him to the Whale and lose a year of entry level eligibility. Where would he play on the Rangers in the next year or so? There’s no room right now though they would trade pieces if he were the real deal.
there’s a reason for that. It’s the “Mike Gartner” syndrome. The style of play the Rangers have is suited for the playoffs similar to the Bees inclusive of great goaltending.
by Richter1994 on Jul 29, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Canucks have oodles of depth.
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by red army line on Jul 29, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
then why didn’t they win? prior to the finals I predicted the Bees in 6. if they had won one of the first 2 OT games I would have been right. The Canucks are a good regular season team. I’ll say it for the millionth time. They will never win a Cup with Luongo in nets.
by Richter1994 on Jul 29, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Their defensive depth was decimated in the playoffs.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, Tim Thomas.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
partly. I believe that teams like the Bees and Rangers play the style of play that is better suited to the playoffs. if you notice, the Caps are going more in that direction as opposed to the run and gun style that usually gets stifled in the playoffs. add Vokoun (the best goalie no one talks about, IMO) and they are now the team to beat in the east.
Few teams make the finals, let alone win, with the Bruins/Rangers style of play, especially post-lockout. Boston, Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Carolina…they either won the possession game or had a goaltender to negate it.
I mean, Detroit’s easily the most successful franchise in the last decade or so, and while they always have some bangers, they’re much more Vancouver-oriented than Bruins/Rangers-oriented.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
to say vancouver’s style wont let them have success in the playoffs is absurd, they were one win away from winning the stanley cup
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jul 29, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn’t say that. I said they’ll never win with Luongo in nets. with the way their team is stocked with talent not winning the Cup is considered a failure at this point. no one in Vancouver is celebrating that they went to the Cup finals, I guarantee it. George, I don’t put Det as the same style as Van, Pitts, Chi, etc. I believe they are a lot better defensively.
Detroit better defensively than Vancouver or Chicago? Or Pittsburgh? How so?
If they’ll never win with Luongo, then why is it a failure to not win the Cup? It should be expected, then.
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by red army line on Jul 29, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think so. I always liked Det’s style of play. a nice mix of offense and defense. they obviously have talent but they’re in it every year for a reason. the Luongo thing is my opinion not Vancouver’s, lol. to Van it’s a failure if they don’t win the Cup.
But all those teams allow fewer goals than Detroit, who ranked 23rd last year.
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by red army line on Jul 29, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
as opposed to the run and gun style that usually gets stifled in the playoffs
Run and gun doesn’t mean trading chances. It means being very aggressive on offense and backchecking like demons to prevent the counterattack. It also doesn’t describe defensive zone systems. That’s exactly what I see out of Vancouver, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh.
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by red army line on Jul 29, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m ok with this but I think Van and Chi are more wide open when it comes to offensive attack. they also have the talented players to hold the puck as well.
Wait, what?
as opposed to the run and gun style that usually gets stifled in the playoffs
I think Van and Chi are more wide open when it comes to offensive attack.
The first almost won the Cup, the second did and the next year took a SC finalist to Game 7 OT.
There’s nothing inherently wrong about “run and gun.” It’s a strategy to win, just like any other system. Some teams play it better than others.
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by red army line on Jul 29, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, I was saying I think Van and Chi are more wide open than Philly and Pitts (forgot to write the last part of the sentence). the funny thing is though the part of the team that Chi lost because of cap issues is the grit part and the goalie of course. You watch, I think the Rangers’ style of play, with more scoring this year, will benefit them greatly in the playoffs. Of course having the King playing at high levels doesn’t hurt either.
If I was a high-ranking member of the Rangers management, would I be willing to part with Kreider or other prospects to get a proven elite winger?
Uhhhh, yah.
Kreider hasn’t proven anything yet. Junior tournaments aside, he hasn’t done much in the way of production at Boston College. The scouting reports on his game have not changed since the Rangers drafted him. He’s fast. Awesome. Let him be fast somewhere else.
Christian Thomas scored 50 goals in the OHL. So did Ryan Callahan, and he has only just hit the expected offensive production of a second line winger 6 years after he was drafted.
Stepan isn’t at this point good enough on faceoffs to project to the type of pivot that you’d want on a team. So if he’ll be switched to the wing eventually anyways, I would be willing to move him as well.
With Richards coming in at 31 years old, and the other most talented players on the roster pushing 30, it seems to me that you don’t want to waste their years at elite level. Remember, the Rangers have to compete against the Pittsburghs of the world. I’m fairly certain the only reason they didn’t reach the Stanley Cup final for the third time in 4 years was because their two best players, and two of the top 5 players in the league, were injured.
Now is the time to take advantage of the Islanders’ youth, the Devils’ coaching and roster uncertainty, and the Flyers’ roster upheaval. I make a trade for an elite winger in a heartbeat.
by Hoggo on Jul 29, 2011 6:38 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
But how many proven elite players are out there and what would it cost to get them? Would you send Dubi, AA, Kreider and a #1 to the CBJs for Nash? That’s what it would take if they even would think to trade him. I wouldn’t do that trade. You would severely deplete the team for one person. Nash is great but how much more production could one player bring? Not enough to give up those players, IMO.
Would you send Dubi, AA, Kreider and a #1 to the CBJs for Nash?
No, I wouldn’t. But if I’m using the Philly trades as a template (as I am wont to do) I don’t think you need to include that. If there’s a team looking to rebuild, I take advantage of the youth on the squad (Stepan most likely target), picks, and prospects.
Mr. Hoggo, Nash is the face of the franchise and would not be moved for any package. But if he were then you have to start with what I said. The Flyers moved their players for reasons other than hockey. 2nd, neither Mike Richards nor what’s his name (drew a blank, lol) are in Nash’s class. At all. You cannot go by the Flyer deals as comparison at all, IMO.
I’d much rather have Mike Richards than Nash
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
George, really? I usually agree with you but no way. Nash is a one man wrecking machine that when he has a #1 center, which he finally has now, he will take off. He was great during the Olympics last year. And BTW, I like MR so there’s no anti-Flyer bias here. Nash is one of the few players in the league I would give up a lot for but not the package I suggested above which is what it would take to get him, IMO.
Yes, really
Offensively, Richards has been every bit Nash’s equal (and outscored him in 3 of the last 4 years), and defensively RIchards is easily superior.
Nash does not have a #1 center now, he has another shoot first guy in Carter to supplement him. If they play together, one of them is going to suffer, there’s no way the two are going to continue to launch 300 shots each playing together, unless they’re constantly on the PP. There just aren’t enough pucks.
That’s not to say Nash isn’t an excellent player, but I’d certainly take Richards ahead of him. I might take Carter ahead of him too, but that’s something I’d really want to think about.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d actually go Carter over Nash as well. I know they were Philly guys but I really like both of their games.
I haven’t seen Nash play enough, which may be why I’d put both those guys over him… but also, from a guy who was a number 1 pick I’d expect more production, whether or not he had a first-liine center to play with. I know his game is one where he probably needs the puck in the right place, but I’d like a more dynamic scorer from the wing. But again, that’s my bias. He is fairly nasty.
Agreed. I’d love for the Rangers to get Mike Richards.
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His partying is going to catch up one day
If his new coach/team doesn’t make him curb it.
Look at Lemieux
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by The Blue Seats on Aug 1, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Mr. Hoggo. I like it. It’s like I’m a professional.
From this point, I will no longer to respond to anyone not showing me the proper respects!
Mr. Ays, I really like MR. Carter (couldn’t remember his name, lol)? Not as much. I thought Philly made a big mistake trading MR but then again they got Schenn who will be all-world in a few years (my trade target for Gaby) just not this year. Put in the right situation Nash can take over a game like great players do. i don’t think you can say that about MR, as good as he is. Mr. Hoggo, I also, with all the respect I can muster, disagree with you on Nash. I would take him over Gaby to play with BR. I love Dubi but I would trade him and Kreider for Nash in a second. Of course, the CBJs probably wouldn’t do that.
Nash vs. M. Richards
I just checked the stats of both players for the last 3 years. Pretty close for each year. The major difference is the PP pts. Nash had 19, 22, and 14 the last 3 years from most recent to oldest years while MR had 33, 31, and 21 for the same 3 years. This is clearly a byproduct of Philly being the much better team and allowing MR to get a lot more PP pts. So that means that 5 on 5, Nash produces much more than MR since their respective total pts are about even with the big edge in PP pts to MR. The SOGs are not close as Nash had 305, 254, and 263 while MR had 184, 237, and 238. I would expect Nash’s #s to go up this year simply because he’s playing with a better player than before. Just sayin.
Don’t forget though, Carter and Nash are both shoot-first players. One of there numbers is going to dip. I would personally keep them separated, having 2 lines that can score.
Carter being on the team will help Nash’s numbers because he wont always have to go up against top dmen, but I’m not too sure about how Nash/Carter will mesh.
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agree with that concept for both players. my point was that Nash does not have anyone around him to protect him prior to this coming year while MR has benefited greatly from just being on a better team. The big advantage in PP pts clearly shows that. I would take Nash over MR and I do like MR.
We also need to compare cap hits. Richards it 2 mil cheaper I believe. That plays a role in who I would choose.
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So you're willing to mortgage two future stars
For a faster route to the cup? I’m sorry that sounds an awful lot like the pre lockout mentality. I have faith in the development plans for both Kreider and Thomas, the Rangers have their people watching those two almost everyday and are keeping a very close eye on their progression. All it takes is some patience
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by Kevin Power on Jul 29, 2011 7:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Richards, Gaborik, and Lundqvist aren’t getting any better. From what I’ve read on Krieder he’s still very much in the air (I guess like Mikkel Boddker).
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by red army line on Jul 29, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
you are correct, sir. May be high upside, but at this point the production has not quite matched it and he still has a long way to go
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jul 29, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
While you are right that they aren’t getting any better, do you think the drop in talent in two years going to be that precipitous that the Rangers won’t be one of the top teams in the east?
On the Kreider point, the only problem that he has is that he’s still playing in the NCAA and some scouts (and fans) are getting antsy with him and think that he’s kind of plateaued
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In a few years, I think Richards is going see a steep drop, yeah.
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by red army line on Jul 29, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I can see that
But by then I think Stepan/Anisimov will be ready to take his place on the top line as Richards moves down to the second/third line
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Total cap hit will be higher, total effectiveness lower, I think.
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by red army line on Jul 29, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
While I fully support patience with our top prospects, we cannot say that they are “future stars” at this point, because its still so up in the air.
Bottom line is, you can’t declare any “definites” at this point. If the right deal came along, you move a prospect hands down. On the flip side, you have to be careful about selling your prospects for someone who seems elite, but probably won’t put the team over the top, or even fit in with the chemistry.
There has to be a balance between developing certain guys, and trading them for significant pieces. Its not one or the other. And because the Rangers have had so many years of not building through the draft, or selling our top prospects for big names that haven’t worked out, a lot of the fans have shot to the other extreme, which is: overvaluing our prospects, and refusing to discuss any of them in trades. Both of those are the wrong way to build a champion. There’s a middle ground.
by j-red on Jul 29, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
While I fully support patience with our top prospects, we cannot say that they are "future stars" at this point, because its still so up in the air.
Yes.
On the flip side, you have to be careful about selling your prospects for someone who seems elite, but probably won’t put the team over the top, or even fit in with the chemistry.
True. I trust the Rangers management to do their diligence when going after a player. As we know, Sather’s trades have usually gone the Rangers way.
There’s a middle ground.
There is, and I don’t think going after another elite player would damage the progress the Rangers have made in the way of developing their own talent.
We differ significantly here
Callahan and Thomas are two very different prospects, you can’t compare the two at all. Note that Callahan was much older when he scored 50 goals in the OHL, Thomas was just 18.
The Stepan argument, on the other hand, is what really confuses me. Stepan has been a hero for the United States in international competition (so has Kredier now that I think about it) and was great as a rookie last season. He has nowhere to go but up (as do all of these prospects) and you trade them now for an aging elite winger?
The Rangers are a young team as well. Except the Rangers are a good young team, where the Islanders would be classified as a rebuilding young team.
I just don’t see the allure of trading away potential superstars in Kreider and Stepan (and maybe Thomas).
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 29, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
The crux of my argument is that you are trading potential for a known entity. I trust the Rangers to make good trades. And you have to give to get.
It’s kind of like the Philly trades. If I’m Los Angeles, do I trade Schenn, who is most likely going to be a superstar in 2 years, for a guy who is a superstar now? If I’m Columbus, and I need an elite center, do I trade a pick and a guy with loads of talent for someone that I know is elite? Probably no to the first situation, and yes to the second. The difference is that with a player like Schenn, you know he is dominant, and has dominated at every level he’s played. He’s also older and has grown into his body, so I have less worry about the physical aspect of the NHL being too much for him.
I see your Thomas argument, I think he’s closest to the best prospect thee Rangers have, and I would let him show dominance in the OHL another year, like LA did with Schenn. With Stepan, he would be like the Voracek argument. I have to give to get. And as management, I’d know that I would be getting elite talent right now for potential elite talent.
And I wouldn’t be selling these kids for aging cats… Again using Philly, thse guys were 26 years old, with many years ahead of them.
The only issue with my argument is what you mentioned in your article, about how the salary concerns would work out. But again, there are ways to make that stuff work.
Are you really trying to knock Kreider?
You’re telling me a player with speed and low expectations has never thrived in Tortorella’s system (have you ever heard of Martin St. Louis)? And you’re knock on him is that he plays BETTER in big tournament situations? And the reason his scouting report hasn’t changed is more of a testament to his consistency than anything else.
And don’t just look at the guys stats and say his production is poor. If you WATCH Boston College play, you would know that his line kills it because he draws a ton of attention on defense. If he were to play on a line with, oh, let’s say Gaborik and Richards, I think he would finally have some space on the ice to operate.
And Junior Tournaments aside, this guy has KILLED IT in Hockey East Tournaments like the Beanpot and the playoff championship (something you wouldn’t get from his stat sheet).
by callahanisgod on Jul 29, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
kreider
Always had high hoped but its been 3 years since he was drafted…if he was going to be a SUPERSTAR, he would of already at least been making strides in the NHL
Not necessarily. Look at JvR, drafted in 2007 and only making an impact in 2010-2011.
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by red army line on Jul 29, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
True, and he’s making a STRONG impact.
I would be just fine with Kreider following in the footsteps of JvR, Of course, I don’t expect him to be that good.
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I have never watched Kreider play. And I know he was the MVP of the Beanpot. I also know that every time I read something about him, I see the same thing. For the past two years all I’ve read is that he’s fast. As for improving the other tools of the game outside his scoring, I’ve heard nothing. That doesn’t impress me. And if I can sell high on a guy like that, I do it.
I often watch Kreider play I wouldn’t say his line “kills”.
I wouldn’t say he killed it at the beanpot either. He had one incredible highlight reel goal and a couple of secondary assists.
I would like Ranger fans to curb their expectations for Kreider. He is a fantastic player on the rush, and with the puck on his stick on the powerplay
He is average in just about every aspect of the game, at least at BC.
He seems to forget all of these things when he plays in the WJC and WC
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by The Blue Seats on Jul 29, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
He was pretty average in WJC’s this year, when everyone was looking for him too
by BuckarooClub on Jul 29, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering the usernames I see posted above me, this may be dangerous, but I’m going to bring Wolski into this debate.
He has the skill to be an elite winger.
At 24 years old, he’s already had a 65 point season, and with a playmaking center (Richards) he can do it again, especially in a contract year. If he gels with Gabby and Richie, and puts in the effort, we could see tremendous returns. I know people are fed up with him because of his “lack of effort”, but he has the type of skill that if harnessed, can really pay off.
I don't disagree with that
you put Wolski on a line with Richards and Gaborik and he can easily hit the 65-point plateau. Will he? That remains to be seen. But the sky is the limit for that line.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 29, 2011 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
The sky is the limit for that line. The issue though is if Wolski doesn’t get off to a fast start, how much patience will Tortorella have with him. Is Tortorella willing to let Wolski play his game and carve out a niche for himself on the team? Because a guy with Wolski’s skill is exactly what the Rangers need.
Even if you separate the Pack line and let Wolski play with Callahan and Anisimov, does he require Wolski to dump behind the net and grind it out, or allow him to use his tools to get something going in front of the net?
Putting someone on the line with Richards and Gaborik who is a similar kind of offense-first player could be very dangerous. Ideally for the Rangers, puck possession would be theirs. However, the trio of Richards, Gaborike and Wolski would be a treat to play against in their Defensive Zone.
I see Fedotenko playing on the top line if only to balance out the Defensive side of the puck.
Dubinsky on the first line takes care of the concerns of puck possession, more so than Feds would.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but there seems to be a great resistance to splitting up the line of Dubinsky/Anisimov/Callahan.
Otherwise, I would not hesitate to bring Dubinsky up to the top line to not only be the possession side, but also not allow opposing teams to ‘bully’ Richards and Gaborik.
They’re going to get split up at some point anyhow, and how can you be sure they’ll create the same magic? Each of them has trained different elements of their games over the summer so their skill sets might not be complementary anymore.
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by Scratch and Snif on Jul 30, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
like i've said before
arguing Wolski is like arguing politics and religion.
IMO, he doesn’t have the raw skill of kreider or the intangibles of Thomas. He’s a slightly better christensen…but whatever we shall see
+1000000
Which is why I think Wolski is a good fit for this line. Don’t put Dubinsky there, because it’s a one-year job.
by callahanisgod on Jul 29, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s a slightly better christensen
Except that Christensen is a journeyman who’s been on waivers a few times, wasn’t taken in the first round, and never came close to 65 points in a season. Oh yea… I guess I can see how they’re similar.
Wolski has a lot more skill than Christensen.
I’m not gonna compare him to Kreider or Thomas, because I think that’s totally irrelevant. Those guys are not NHL ready. I’m advocating for leaving them in the system, and putting WW on the first line, instead of trading them for another NHL winger.
Well you mentioned all the differences for the sake of your argument, but they are similar in the fact that they are both high skilled, unmotivated players who have tantalized fans with some of their plays, but largely frustrated them with their inconsistency and general apathy.
and Wolski isn’t a journyman? So far he’s worn out his welcome with two (soon to be three) teams and he’s only 25.
he’s not a journeyman that’s been on waivers a few times, which is what I said. And that fact alone, that one had zero trade value, while the other is a player that teams want to take a serious chance on, by trading for, speaks volumes about their difference in talent levels.
And if those are the similarities, Christensen is a horrible comparison because of the gap in their talent levels. You’re better off comparing WW to Zherdev… there’s a much better case to be made. Christensen will never be able to put it together like Wolski can.
The only point I’m arguing with you, is that Wolski is much better than Christensen. Getting back to the main post: IF WW can show consistency on a top line with a play making center (the type of which he might need), then that’s a risk you take any day of the week, especially over trading prospects like Kreider and Thomas for an NHL winger.
well in my originial post I said that WW is a slightly better christensen: I recognize the fact that he has more natural ability, but most of my comparisons lie in the fact that their skill level does not match their output.
Zherdev is a good comparison becuase he had a few teams take a flyer (no pun intended) on him before the interest ultimately fizzled (which will happen with ww if he does not perform this season)
The main reason I used christensen as an example is becuase people thought he would be a good temporary fix on the first line that might end up blossoming and it didn’t pan out, which is what I see happening with WW.
EC, after a few good games that got our hopes up, fizzled out and the carousel on the first line began. That’s what i see happening at LW next season that will ultimately be filled by an established elite winger, or the emergence of Kreider or CT
The difference with EC
EC only costs 900k vs. WW’s 3.8mil. Also, EC offers something no other player does – the ability to play with Gabby. Until we KNOW that Gabby and Richards work, I don’t think we can afford to get rid of EC (unless Richards is Gabby’s last chance with the Rangers). Everything has to fall into place for WW to earn his keep. EC could spend the season in the pressbox, and cover for injured players and be a bargin.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 29, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point.
I’d be wiling to give Wolski a shot though. At the best, he turns it up and he can help us win. If he plays decent, we can ship him off at the deadline for some value. And even at the worst, if he sucks, he’s gone next year.
]. I honestly don’t have an worries about Gaborik and Richards. I’m sure they’ll be fine together. A playmaking center and a sniping winger. It most likely will work.
At this point, i think the signing of Rupp is hurting us. If we signed him for less, or brought someone else in to do the same job for 1 mil instead of 1.5, we could afford to keep Wolski, Feds, MZA, Christensen, Avery, etc on the team and run with 23. Instead, we now have to make decisions about who to keep based on cap hit and not production.
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I don’t think WW has any value in trade now, or at the deadline, unless we are taking a hefty contract back. While there has been reports of interest in Wolski, none of it has been in a trade, they’re all waiting for him to get bought out and sign for 900k.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 2, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with j-red. WW has the talent to be an elite player, but he play is very incosnsistent. If he can put all the parts together, he is an elite player. Lets see if his off season work pans out. With him on a line with BR and Gabby, as Joe said, the sky is the limit. He had an off the chart OHL year also, so he has never lived up to the expectations. Last season, he has learned to play more physical, and I think this year he will step it up.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
by nathansfamous on Jul 29, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Go with what we have. We have a 24 year old who has put up over 60 points, at a reasonable 3.8 mil if he comes close to that production. Give him a shot.
If he doesn’t work with Gabby and Richards, put Dubi on the top line and Wolski with Cally and AA. Thats an awesome top 6.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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I'd say no
but I love prospects and home grown talent, so you’re asking the wrong guy. that said, if we can get a Nash-like winger without trading away everyone…I’d at least give it a shot.
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Stay the Course
Joe’s analysis is well-reasoned. Give Wolski first line minutes and see if he can deliver. We need to give him the opportunity to show his stuff before his contract ends. If he doesn’t develop chemistry with Richie and Gabby, we can try Dubi, Boyle or Feds. We need to know if Wolski is a keeper or another Frolov. By the way, there is a talented, proven goal scorer who is young and has not been signed named Nik Zherdov. Some Flyer fans think he performed pretty well playing fourth line minutes on a very deep team. I suspect he could be picked up on the cheap. He should be motivated since this is absolutely his last chance in the NHL. Worth a shot?
Zherdev’s work effort + Tortorella = multi-car pileup at rush hour
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
by SimpleManiac on Jul 29, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
If Zherdev hasn’t found motivation by now, its too late. And there are 30 teams in the NHL, and NOBODY, not even a team looking for the cap floor, is looking to add this guy. No GM’s want to give him any money. Enough said.
Wasn’t his Goals per 60 like absurdly high?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Depth and goaltending wins championships, not elite talent. Like Richter’s example, the B’s (and their truck load of luck) make a great template:
- 1 – 30 goal scorer, 3 – 20 goal scorers. I was kinda shocked looking this up.
- A $7 million player in the press box the entire playoffs.
- Their “heartbeat” guys played on the second line at 3.75 and 4 million.
- One killer shutdown D combo + a bunch of serviceable guys.
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
They may not be “elite” talent in the traditional sense, but P. Bergeron’s almost at a Datysukian level of 2-way play already, and Krejci’s a 65-75 pt guy who is likely not even in his prime yet. That ignores the two guys with hardware in Chara and Thomas. Those are 4 really talented guys.
They had plenty of elite talent for a cap era team. As for the goal scoring, yeah they only had 4 20-goal guys, they had eleven (?!) with 13+. Without digging through every team, I’d be surprised if anyone can match that (best I found at quick glance was the Flyers with 9, Rangers had 7)
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
also remember, the bruins were one bounce away from getting knocked out in the first round vs montreal. Even if you follow the bruins template to a tee there are still no guarantees at all. you can easily still be first round and done
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jul 29, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. Any short series will have luck play a significant role.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Bruins were one bounce away in the first AND third series.
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
by SimpleManiac on Jul 30, 2011 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup..
Any team needs A LOT of luck to win the cup.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Depth and goaltending wins championships, not elite talent.
That’s just not true across the board. You can’t make sweeping generalizations like that. Did CHI have elite talent? Or was it just depth and goaltending? What about Detroit or PITT?
Fact is, it takes a lot of things to win. The way the Bruins did it is great… it proves that you don’t NEED the top NHL scorers in order to win…. but you still need elite talent.
by j-red on Jul 29, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd take the depth over the elite talent
Remember it was Talbot who showed up with huge goals for Pitt and Franzen for Detroit.
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
by SimpleManiac on Jul 30, 2011 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
okay, but Take Crosby/Malkin or Datsyuk/Zetterberg off those teams, and Talbot/Franzen never get that chance.
You can’t take one over the other…. that’s my point. Like I said above, you don’t need the top scorers, but you need elite talent to win the Cup. Period.
Take the elite talent off of Boston (Chara, Thomas, and maybe Bergeron for being one of the best two players in the game), and they don’t win that Cup. I don’t give shit how many “depth” players you fill in those holes with.
You take the elite talent, I’ll take the team that’s dangerous down to the 12th man on O – like the last few Stanley Cup winners.
Let me know how that works out for you . . .
by SimpleManiac on Jul 31, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
True.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I agree entirety that space for prospects like Reider and Thomas to fit it is important and partly for that reason I’m in no rush for a top line LW. BUT, after next season when we have a better sense of MDZ, Erixon, and McIl, along with Sauer and McD, I would be open to trading Girardi and maybe Pashnin, Valtank or Kund along with a pick or Bourque etc for a top line LW. I think that could get it done and the winger that comes first to mind is Erikson as Dallas has bad D… We need another year to truly know but we have SO much D and Girardi is the oldest yet will still have a lot of value
by bwl1 on Jul 29, 2011 9:02 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
This is where we have to demand accountability from the people in our organization
Kredier and Thomas have been on our scouts radars for roughly 3 years now. They should have a good idea of where these kids are in their development. If these guys are NOT on the track we think they should be to be top line NHL players, and we get offers for trades with teams who value them as the top players, we should be all over those moves. At the same time, if we are holding onto them, because we think they are top players, and they never hit that level, we need to look within the organization and figure WHO was overvaluing these guys and why.
At this point, I think the cabinets are TOO full. We need our scouts to start evaluating what we have, committing to the ones the like, and getting value for other players while they still have it, IF they still have it. I think that Slats trouble finding any takers for Grachev, a guy so many people kept penciling into their “future” lineups is a good example of how homerism can lead to overvaluing players. At the end of the day, as long as we have a team full of guys good enough to hoist the cup, does it matter what the names on the back of their jerseys are, as long as it says “RANGERS” on the front? Well, unless it says “Crosby” or “Brodeur” on the back of jersey atleast.
demand accountability for what?
Our prospects are developing just fine all we need is a thing called patience
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by Kevin Power on Jul 29, 2011 10:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
honestly
i know every time someone brings up anything other than developing our prospects until they are ripe as can be you are quick to shoot them down, but when was the last time a legitimate superstar forward has come up through the Rangers system. Let’s not count our chickens before they hatch.
Kovalev could have been our last superstar forward, but as with all our your talent, we traded him away. It’s only recently that we’ve really begun to develop prospects, and its only recently that we’ve been drafting well.
That’s very flawed reasoning because you’re arguing that the Rangers’s past failures with prospects dooms our future. Things can change, especially in sports
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by Scratch and Snif on Jul 30, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
whoaa
I never said anything about doom. I’m just saying we can’t count our prospects as “stars” yet until they’ve proven themselves.
All i’m saying is lets not rule out any trades for the sake of “keeping our sure fires prospects.” That is flawed reason in my opinion.
None of our guys are can’t miss right now. We either need to get them to the show, or sell them off while they still have value, and get something we CAN use in return. If someone ELSE values our guys as sure thing, can’t miss top 6, all-stars, we should not be afraid to sell high.
With the exception of 1st line left wing, we have to think our top 6 is set for the next 3 seasons, atleast. I would say AA is the only one who could get juggled, because with 1.7 committed to Boyle each of the next 3 seasons, I think we could move AA/Step and not hurt our depth down the middle. I would gladly give up a handful of maybe’s for one definate top 6.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 29, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Accountability for a guy like
MDZ! If he doesn’t get it this season, I think he will be moved.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
I think MDZ should be moved BEFORE this season if he’s getting moved. We should know where he stands, and if we want to use a player like him. MDZ the gifted offensive defenseman garners more in return then MDZ after we try to turn him into a “jam packed” grinder.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 29, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, wtf? MDZ has almost unfair amounts of talent and he’s not even close to reaching a defenseman’s prime. If he performs well as 3rd line guy and generates even a little offense, that’s pretty good for a D-Man of his age. Why would you ship him off? Are you really assuming that he won’t be able to pull it together in the next 5 years because he had shaky sophomore season? (peep the alliteration) Seriously though, we’ve seen what he can do and what he can offer, so what if it takes a little longer to attain that consistent level of quality.
Take it to the net and keep jamming and jamming until somebody comes on you.
- Eddie Olczyk
by Scratch and Snif on Jul 30, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the exact mentality
that lead Mike Milbury to trade Jokinen, Chara, Luongo, Redden, McCabe Connolly.
Patience is a virtue with prospects. It’s not like he’s 24.
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by Joe Fortunato on Jul 30, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, with the exception of Connolly, all of those trades were made for other young players. And the only reason they could even GET Connolly for Peca, was because Peca was holding out. While the Luongo deal wasn’t DIRECTLY for another young player, it was make room for a guy they drafted.
The problem wasn’t the deals, it was the guy MAKING the deals.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 30, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
So what you're saying is...
(Tina Turner just stepped in the room to sing) “We don’t need another hero!”
Joe, I hear you. We’re not looking at trying to acquire a Rick Nash, or a Dustin Penner (although that would be hot). But a wing like that would take the pressure off of the new dynamic duo. This is why I feel putting Gabi on that left wing and moving up Cally to the right would do the trick. Shaking things up doesn’t make the league look at the Rangers and center in on one pattern of play. Richards-Callahan-Gaborik would put a right-handed shot on that line, and change the shot angles and provide Richards with a target no one could handle. Gaborik is a pocket shooter (he finds shots in the slot and beyond), but Callahan will drive to the net and play up front (a lesson he learned from Drury—miss you, Dru).
Moving Cally up would then open up a spot on the second line—Stepan. Stepan is a 35-goal scorer in waiting, and he has no fear of the slot or up front. Putting AA-Dubi (right)-Step (left—yes, I said this) creates body-possession forecheck, something Torts’ Tampa teams were good at back in ‘04. This team has great potential, and maybe can be a Cup Contender. Are they a player or two away? Yes. But are they closer than before? A lot closer.
Some of you who say they aren’t ready yet, I disagree. This team is as ready as any.
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
Gotta disagree with you about Penner (not an elite player), but Im with you on the rest. I dont think Wolski playing on the top line works, the line needs to have some sort of defensive conscious.
I know you guys don’t want to break up the Pack Line, but it may be the best way to balance out the lines. Wolski/Richards/Gaborik in the Rangers defensive zone sounds like a group Top lines in the East will have fun playing against.
What's scary is...
How often it doesn’t work out getting a “top talent”. Especially when you have a head coach who expects (demands!) certain things from that top talent that they are not usually succumbing to, like a constant forecheck. It’s much easier to mold a 21/22 year old into the Tortorella style (see Anisimov, who is now becoming a power forward, it was not his game at all), than it is to bring in a talented player who may or may not play Tort’s game. See Frolov, Zherdev, Kotalik, Higgins, Lisin, and even (at times) Wolski and Avery. There’s a reason why Sather is becoming more and more careful who it is when he picks up a vet, to make sure they’ll mesh with Torts or have played for him before. Prospal, Feds, Richards, etc. To bring in a talented winger introduces the great unknown of whether or not they’ll play ball in this system. But youth can be molded into the system, like the BORG.
This team, with the addition of Richards, but more importantly with the added seasoning of Dube, Cally, AA, MZA, Stepan, Prust, will most likely put up 15-20 more goals than last year, which puts them top 5 in the league at around 250 goals. Assuming their D and goaltending stays the same, or might even improve, you are talking about top 5 in GF and top 5 in GA with no additions of a top winger.
Have Faith!!!!
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by Tim-May on Jul 29, 2011 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
How often it doesn’t work out getting a "top talent"
Good point. How’d that whole Heatley thing work out for San Jose?
Like so many things, putting a roster together is hit or miss. A guy you think is a perfect fit turns out to be not so hot.
How’d that whole Heatley thing work out for San Jose?
146 points in two seasons. Better then any 2 seasons a Ranger has strung together in a while. And that’s ignoring the 5 playoff series he was in with the Sharks. The Sharks got that AND unloaded Cheechoo’s cap hit for Mihalek and 2nd rounder. Ottawa on the other hand, completely fell apart.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 29, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The point must have been too subtle and escaped you.
I know what his points total was – and even if I didn’t know where to go to look them up.
You seemed to be using Heatley as an example of “don’t make the trade for an established star”. I was pointing out that Heatley produced in SJ, and they had more success in his two seasons there then we have had since the lockout. The price they paid for that wasn’t out of line (I actually think it was pretty fair) AND when they wanted to move in a different direction, with younger players, they were able to do that, and get return for Heatley.
Was your point that we SHOULD move prospects who aren’t can’t miss for established players who can help our team now? If so, I apologize, I agree with you.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 29, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Like so many things, putting a roster together is hit or miss. A guy you think is a perfect fit turns out to be not so hot.
The entire context included the above. The expectation of both management and fans in SJ was that Heatley was “the missing link star player” that would put them over the top. It didn’t work out – which is why he’s gone….
I’m not pro or con on trading for established players – completely depends on the context. Each proposed or actual trade has to be weighed on it’s own. At the present time, I’m in agreement, apparently, with Rangers management. Start the season, see what you’ve got, build from within, fill in with trades, etc as needs dictate, without overpaying and/or giving away too much.
75 points a year being centered by either Marleau or Thornton is not very impressive, especially with Heatley’s talent level. How many cups do they have? How far in the playoffs have they gone? And if he were so good for them, why would they ship him off for another who is arguably less talented than him
Take it to the net and keep jamming and jamming until somebody comes on you.
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by Scratch and Snif on Jul 30, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
75 points a year is pretty good for anyone, no matter who your center is. Look at anyone who had 75 or more points and they had a pretty decent linemate. Also, Heatley played through injuries in both those seasons. You’re right that they don’t have a cup, although they DID make it to the conference finals last year, somewhere we haven’t been since Wayne Douglas Gretzky laced them up on Broadway, and went 7 games in the second round the season before.
Not that anything less then a cup means much, but it’s much more then we have to show for the last two seasons – no playoffs, and getting stomped by a team who got stomped in the second round. The thing is, the saw an opportunity and they took it, they gave up some youth for an established player and it certainly didn’t hurt them. Sure they moved Heatley, but that’s cause they thought they found a way to make their team better, and contend. It’s hockey, it happens. They also cut $2.5 mil in cap making that move, and are still able to contend.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 30, 2011 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Cheechoo scored 95 and Seto around 60 playing next to Thornton, and we aren’t exactly applauding them. And pretty good doesn’t quite cut it for what’s supposed to be on of the best 1st line tandems in the NHL.
Of course the Sharks got better in the short term, they traded away Michalek, who was good but not great, and Cheechoo, who just wasn’t for Heatley. They’re better in the long term too since neither of them looks to evolve into a star player. For us, it would be a completely different story since we’d be trading away several very talented prospects for a top winger. In the short term we’d benefit as well, but in the long term we’d have less depth and we’d probably discourage any prospects looking to make it with the big team.
Take it to the net and keep jamming and jamming until somebody comes on you.
- Eddie Olczyk
by Scratch and Snif on Jul 30, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If Cheechoo’s career were what those two seasons were, then we would be applauding him, but he fell off the map. The guy is in the AHL, and it’s just cause he’s not with Thornton. It’s cause those seasons were freak. As far as Seto’s 60 points, there’s a HUGE jump between ONE 60 point season, and a 75 point a season average. 14 guys had more then 75 points last season, 50 had more then 60.
How would we discourage prospects? I would think the chance to play on a contender would be ENCOURAGEMENT to get their games together, if it had any effect on them. If you’re trying to get in the NHL just so you can see your name on the sweater, and let you’re Grandmother watch you on VS., you’re not the kinda prospect we need anyway.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 30, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
If we acquired another high end winger
I would put them on the second line and move dubi up to the first to create a two headed monster
+1
For the BORG reference.
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
Stay the course with the team we have now.. I love the way the team looks. A couple of players will get the chance to play on the top line, maybe wolski first then dubi, AA or cally. We know Torts will jumble the lines around (especially the power play lines) Someone will step up and produce with Gabby and Richards. I really wouldn’t trade away any of our prospects and I think Kreider will be very good when he leaves college like Stepan was
They need to avoid 1 goal games.
Their Goals For is a little inflated. The amount of one goal games the rangers played was staggering. and then they would explode for 7 against, say toronto. The offense was a severe problem last season, and BR can’t fix it all by himself.
Potential doesn't win Championships
I think you have to see what the team does during the season and evaluate what we need , if anything. If the team is performing well then ride what you have. However if it is very apparent that we need another top front line player then you make a rational decision.
Prospects, as we know, dont always turn out to be top players at the next level. I believe that if you can get a player who has proven he can be a top line player in the NHL then I’ll give two prospects and a 2 or 3rd line player for that kind of talent. Obviously, not for a 34 year old + but for a 28-30 yr old- absolutely. Plus the other team would have to take a Wolski to give us some cap room. Hopefully the R’s come out of the gate like gangbusters and everybody on the current squad does what is hoped. Then a trade would be moot.
"Shoot the Puck Barry, Shoot the puck !" Bill Chadwick
by RangerFanInChicago on Jul 29, 2011 11:22 AM EDT reply actions
I don’t agree with giving up both of those prospects, but I’m not sure how anyone can say scoring isn’t an issue for us right now. We haven’t played a single game.
You’re bringing back essentially the same lineup, minus Drury, plus Richards. Even if everybody simply repeats last year’s performance, you’ve gone from 224 to 247 goals, which would be 5th in the league.
Add in that just about the whole team is on the good side of 27 (thus should improve, in theory), and it’s reasonable to assume that offense will not be the problem that it has been in years past.
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
and we’d have to make sure 70% of those goals don’t come in the 12 games we play bottom feeding teams.
well...
The whole elite winger argument really comes down to depth. I think gabby/richards will be lethal and I am confident that the pack line will improve, but a lot of times the highly skilled guys are also a bit fragile. If richards/gabby miss significant time next year, will we totally lose our potency on offense? I hope not.
If we got one more elite winger (which I would put on the second line) I feel like we would be able to not miss a beat if a few guys are injured/slumping. Seems the elite teams continue to score in bulk even whent heir star players are out becuase they have the secondary scoring to step up.
Also, one could reasonably add 10 additional goals to Gabby’s output with Richards on his line. Doesn’t mean it happens, but I wouldn’t bet against it.
"To everybody else we're underdogs, but we go in thinking we can handle any team in the NHL."
Brandon Prust, #8, New York Rangers
richards addition is accounting for that
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jul 29, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
George, are you seriously gonna try and tell me richards alone is worth 23 goals over drury? Not sure what his GVT was last year, but im guessing it wasnt that high….
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Jul 29, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant simply their output. Richards scored 24, Drury scored 1.
All I said was everyone scores the exact same number of goals last year, and we improved. It’s obvious that it’s a ton more complicated than that. (for instance, Richards likely costs X number of goals against more than Drury would)
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by George E. Ays on Jul 29, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn’t agree more. It’s like evaluating your own kids talent. What parent EVER says my son is an OK ball player or my daughter is a decent student. Doesn’t happen. Your kid is always the best player on the team (and when he doesn’t get enough playing time its the coaches fault) and the smartest in the class (and when they don’t do so hot on a test they were either not feeling well or the teacher doesn’t like them).
Same thing with our homegrown guys. Dubi is a superstar and Callahan is Captain America. Newsflash, Dubi disappeared for huge stretches of the year last season as he has in all of his past seasons, Cally continues to be prone to injury and I’d much rather have a captain in the line up then out.
Until these guys prove that they can score and play at a high level consistently, they are what they are. Nice role players that will never achieve an elite status.
Although you are right I do look at them like my own kids I have to say even the biggest superstars hit slumps look at ovechkin pre-classic last season, that’s when one of our toddlers needs to step up and show they can help keep this family together
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 29, 2011 7:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think it’s fine to wait, and try to make a trade during the season, but I think we need to buy out Wolski now so that we have the space to do that. If you’re trading prospects for a proven player, you’re going to need to have room to take on salary. No one is going to WANT to take on WW’s cash if they’re selling players to cut salary.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 29, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Say what?? Potential doesn't win Championships...
As Chicago if potential doesn’t win championships, they’d disagree. Some 21-year-old center named Jonathon Toews and some 23-year-old center named Dave Bolland won a Stanley Cup with “potential”. Most of that team was made up of players with “potential”. You talk about a team that overachieved…
They win with potential, and this little thing called patience.
"The winner of the Steven McDonald Extra Effort Award is Number Eight, Brandon Prust!"--Ofc. Colin McDonald, NYPD, April 7, 2011
They didn’t win with POTENTIAL, they won by turning that POTENTIAL into real talent. Those guys won a cup on ELC’s, our “prospects” are almost to UFA status.
by BuckarooClub on Jul 29, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank You
Toews and Kane had more potential than Thomas and Kreider will ever have- and they turned that potential into reality.
Darryl Strawberry had more potential thanany baseball player in history- how did he turn out?
Having potential doesnt mean it turns into production at the highest level.
"Shoot the Puck Barry, Shoot the puck !" Bill Chadwick
by RangerFanInChicago on Jul 29, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Chicago didn’t win because of two stars, they won because of two stars and an incredibly deep team. We have our two stars in Maggy and Richards, we have a third one in Lundqvist, and we’ve got the depth coming along via our prospect feeding line. At this point, we don’t need more superstars, we need good production from every line so we won’t have to depend on one.
If Kreider and Thomas don’t become superstars, they’ll still be good for at least 30-40 so stick them on the third line. Stepan and Anisimov playing center behind Richards will be one of the best 3Cs in the league given an extra two years.
You don’t win a cup with a few talented individuals, you win one as a functioning whole, which is much easier to build when all the players within it have been instilled with the same philosophy since they were drafted. Over the long term, FC Barca >> Real Madrid every single time
Take it to the net and keep jamming and jamming until somebody comes on you.
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by Scratch and Snif on Jul 30, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Maggy Gillenhall. (Spelling?)
Take it to the net and keep jamming and jamming until somebody comes on you.
- Eddie Olczyk
by Scratch and Snif on Jul 30, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
In 3 years having a forward crop of Richards Gaborik Dubinsky Anisimov Callahan Stepan Kreider Thomas Miller Hagelin Prust Boyle Prust seems awesome to me. Thats a damn deep team, and kids like Thomas, Kreider, Miller, and Hagelin won’t be expensive at all.
Those guys being cheap allows us to pay guys like Dubi, Cally, AA, Step 4 mil and Gabby/Richards 7.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Don’t we have to have one elite winger before we discuss the need for "another"?
* Rimshot! *
Be here most of the week folks
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jul 29, 2011 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
+1
well we have Prust, right?
"Shoot the Puck Barry, Shoot the puck !" Bill Chadwick
by RangerFanInChicago on Jul 29, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Jokes have gotten kinda stale since you retire
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Jul 29, 2011 12:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My jokes? Or the jokes on the site?
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jul 29, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And answer carefully, I still have full rights on the site :)
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jul 29, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
your jokes
BRING IT!!!!
@joereiter
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Your jokes
…old man
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Effed up, especially since I am the one who suggested bringing you on, and Fortunato said no. Adding you to the staff was basically my last act here as boss, like a President who pardons his friends on the way to the next guy’s inauguration.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jul 29, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
lolololol
The truth surfaces
Take it to the net and keep jamming and jamming until somebody comes on you.
- Eddie Olczyk
by Scratch and Snif on Jul 30, 2011 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
lmao!
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I agreed with everything except that Boyle will score 20 goals. I just don’t see it happening again.
Don’t agree. He continues to show he is working hard. He is working hard in the off season. If he can get his conditioning up to handle an 82 game season, he will repeat.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
by nathansfamous on Jul 29, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with every single word of Joe’s post. This is not the time to get impatient and veer off the path we’ve been on, which is a good one. If we were a step or two closer to honest contention, than maybe a trade would make sense, but it’s still too early in the process to go trading away prospects.
"To everybody else we're underdogs, but we go in thinking we can handle any team in the NHL."
Brandon Prust, #8, New York Rangers
staying on this "path"
Doesn’t mean we’re all of a sudden not allowed to trade anyone anymore. It’s just being smarter and not near-sighted like we were in the past.
Of course, it’s silly to discuss hypothetical trades without specific names. I agree that trades are always an option, and Sather has made some good ones recently. What bothers me is the notion of dealing players like Stepan, Kreider, Thomas who are dynamic, have enormous upside, and will be inexpensive for the next several years.
"To everybody else we're underdogs, but we go in thinking we can handle any team in the NHL."
Brandon Prust, #8, New York Rangers
by Joe1969 on Jul 29, 2011 3:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Joe, dont understand the article to be honest. Elite is all relative, i think a top 6 caliber LW is pretty important to acquire, dont necessarily need a 50 goal guy. And it is possible that it could be acquired for a price similar to the savings on a wolski buyout. Additionally, goal scoring will almost definitely still need help if they want to get it to an elite level, even though at this point i do think our forwards have caught up to and possibly surpassed our D
agree
I think we are used to such ineptitude that now that we are on the right path, people are afraid to make any moves at all aside from signing sure-thing FAs and resigning our UFAs. we have a deep prospect pool now. If we need to make a move that will allow us to win a cup with our big 3 in their prime, why not? Especially if that new high-end winger can still contribute to our retooling effort.
wolski buyout
can i read a comment from you that doesnt talk about buying out wolski? why would u want to pay a dead cap hit onhim next year when this is the last year on his contract and there isnt even anyone to trade for him. He may not be a superstar but he does have a lot of potential. he is one year removed from a 65 point season and is still very young. lets give him another chance shall we? if it doesnt pan out, he is gone next year. and who would you get with his buyout savings? Zherdev?
I agree Broseph
If we play this season with basically the same guys and no Brad Richards, I think we get to the second round. Our guys are growing and know their responsibilities. With that said we have Brad Richards + our top 6 future trade dealdline winger(almost sure of this, especially if we’re sitting 5th or below in the standings) so I say we’ll be fine. Plus We have an elite winger in Gabby and an elite playmaker in Richards, and an elite goaltender in Hank. I think were good.
by louielounz1 on Jul 29, 2011 3:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
A top six winger will likely be added.
But not now, maybe at the trade deadline or next season via free agency. This team is good enough on paper to firmly make the playoffs. By February of 2012 there will be more information to assess WW, MZA, Thomas, Hagelin and Kreider. Not to mention a better assessment of strong the young defensive core is at the NHL/AHL levels. We’ll also know whether Stepan can improve his face off percentage (not everyone is Cogliano). Not to mention progression/regression of AA and Boyle.
Bottom line.. I don’t see Sather making a big move now without letting at least 1/2 the season to play out.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jul 29, 2011 4:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
This is not a Stanley Cup team
and everyone saying we need to stay the course, the course doesn’t go on forever. At some point this team needs to become a number one contender for the cup, and guys like Richards Lundqvist and Gaborik arent staying young forever. Do I think the rangers need to make a move right now, or even this season, no. But as this team stands now they aren’t a Stanley cup caliber team. What I think the Rangers will do, is allow the players that need to further develop to do just that. Let Cally and Dubi become 30 goal guys, let Gaborik and Richards mesh, and let the young guys, the McDuns, the Sauers, the Erixons, the Stepans, develop into the players they could potential become. But come next year, come next July, the Rangers need to go all in. They need to add another top 6 guy, and I could potentially see that guy being Parise. He just signed a one year deal with the devils, making him a UFA next year, and the Rangers will have the cap space to do it. With the core signed, Wolski, Avery and Christenson off the books, a smaller Drury cap hit, bringing in Parise is a definite possibility. Imagine the lines:
Parise-Richards-Gaborik
Dubi-AA-Cally
Boyle-Stepan-(insert developed prospect here)
Prust-Rupp-(insert developed prospect here)
That right there is a championship caliber line up. Let the team mesh this year, and then add the final piece next year.
So what level of the playoffs do you see us hitting…?
by Ranger McJersey on Jul 29, 2011 7:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you’re point?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
my point is that you’ve gotta make sure you’re on the RIGHT course, and not just follow it blindly.
by BuckarooClub on Aug 2, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
lmao
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I think with that team, guys like Rupp and Boyle (making like 1.5-2 mil) will have to be swapped out for guys making 800k—1m (Hagelin, Miller, Kreider, Thomas, Weise, cheap vets, etc) in order to make the money to work.
If we plan on spending 35 mil on our first two lines, we need to spend 10 on the bottom two. Especially if Hank is making 6 mil, our top d pair is making 8, and the rest of the d guys get raises and are making 2-3 each.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

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