Bantering Points: Will Wolski Play Along Richards and Gaborik?
by Bryan Winters on Aug 24, 2011 6:00 AM EDT
in New York Rangers Notes
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Print- Rangers beat reporter Steve Zipay points out that he believes Wojtek Wolski will get the first crack at the top line. He also would like to see Stepan get some time up there as well.
- Dave at Blue Seat Blogs wonders if there could be any sophomore slumps next season for the Rangers. He lists Stepan, Sauer and McDonagh as possibilities.
- The Rangers spend most of their time at the MSG Training Center during the season. Many people probably wonder what goes around there. Marty Biron takes a tour and shows us around the training center.
- As the season approaches quicker and quicker, season previews start to pop-up. Guest blogger Alex takes a look ahead to next season and points out the Rangers keys to success.
- Steve Zipay of Blue Notes takes a look at various stats amongst Rangers players last season. Some are rather surprising.
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Yes, but so will Dubinksy, Boyle, Avery and possibly Stepan.
Next question?
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Aug 24, 2011 6:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Here's a better question IMO: Why can't Christian Thomas have Jeff Skinner type success at the NHL level in 2011?
Both are undersized, had similar PPG production at similar levels of competition (OHL). Skinner is a superior skater, but Thomas is no slouch (unlike Judge Smails). Offensive skill set probably favors Thomas.
Why are most of us expecting Thomas to not make the team? More pointedly, Why don’t we believe he’s going to be an impact player this year?
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Aug 24, 2011 7:12 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
it’s tough to give him the 9 game tryout with the Rangers starting in Europe and on the road due to the renovations. I think Thomas is our Skinner but let him go back to juniors for one more year and play right out of camp in 2012/13. I think Thomas is a better prospect than Kreider.
The question is, why would you want Thomas to make the team this year? Why rush him? The league is littered with rushed prospects who haven’t yet panned out. Including first rounders. Look at Turris and Boedker in Phoenix. Or Sam Ganger in Edmonton. Or Josh Bailey on the Islanders. Or…
Logan Couture and Bobby Ryan, both high draft picks who weren’t rushed, were given the chance to dominate in the CHL, and later in the AHL before moving to the NHL. I posted a list of defensemen the other day, I’m too lazy to go back and look.
Buffalo Sabres prospects have won AHL rookie of the year honors three years in a row, including Gerbe, Ennis, and Adam. The latter will likely make the jump this year, and will probably emulate the success that Gerbe and Ennis have.
So far as it goes, the offensive skill set favors Skinner. I’m not sure where you get the opposite.
And so far as being an impact player, he would need minutes to do that. He’s not getting them over Gaborik or Callahan, and he won’t be asked to play defensively with Prust holding that role down. Callahan’s best year was last year, and that was his 4th full season. Except Stepan, the Rangers homegrown forward corps/core have all spent at least one season in the AHL.
Jess at the Prospect Park provides another opinion
I think you need to temper your expectations.
by Hoggo on Aug 24, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
good reasoning
we just haven’t had that can’t-miss prospect in…literally forever so people are a bit anxious. We won’t have a top 5 pick in years so unless sather works some magic, we won’t get one for a while.
I can’t remember the last top 5 pick we had. We traded up for Brendl at 4 (I think) but other than that I don’t remember any others. Montoya was 6th (I think) and Malhortra was 7th.
by Richter1994 on Aug 24, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Other than Brendl, the last top 5 pick NYR had was in 1966 – Brad Park #2 overall. In 2000 and 2002 they didn’t have a first rounder and those were some lean years – may have traded away a top 5 then.
Manning lobs it, Burress alone, touchdown New York!
For the empty net, Mark Messier... do you believe it?! Do you believe it?! He said we will win game 6 - he has just picked up the hat trick!
thanks, that’s what I figured. Couldn’t remember any top 5 picks.
by Richter1994 on Aug 24, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
sounds about right
and those are the only picks that you may expect to play with the big club right away—although with our front office these days, I think we would have a lot more success with a top 5 pick than in the past.
let’s hope we don’t have one unless it gets traded to us, lol.
by Richter1994 on Aug 24, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
2000's first round pick went to tb to move up for brendl, but that wasn't a top 5 pick (8th or 9th overall if i remember)
the 2002 first round pick went to florida as part of the bure deal, thanks to the magic of google i think that was also a 9th overall pick
tb used theirs on nikita alexeev, florida took petr taticek
luckily those were really lean drafts, and unless you had a top 3 pick it was all a crapshoot…..unless you’re mike milbury, and think rick dipietro is a #1 overall pick
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Brendl – 4th overall pick in 1999 draft.
by Richter1994 on Aug 24, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
i meant the 2000 first round pick the rangers traded to tb to get brendl at 4 wasn't a top 5
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
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Hoggo
Why temper expectations? You are making comparisons to guys who don’t even resemble his style of play and you provide no reason or support for stating why his offensive skills aren’t equal or better than Skinners given product and caliber of opponent, not to mention scouting reports. Why you’d bring up defensmen is even more puzzling when we are discussing forwards.
I’d ask you to explain these logical disconnects, but maybe if you read the original post again the light might come on.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Aug 24, 2011 1:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Logic-
If Thomas was more skilled than Skinner, then he likely would have scored more points in their draft year. He did not.
If Thomas was more skilled than Skinner, then he likely would have been drafted in the first round, if not before Skinner. He was not.
If Thomas was more skilled than Skinner, he likely would have been rated higher by the CSS. He was not.
I brought up defensemen because they also play hockey.
You did not provide any reasoning for why you say Thomas is more skilled than Skinner.
Outside your “similar levels of production” argument, your original post doesn’t shed any light on anything.
Also
Hockey’s Future Top 50 prospects-
Find Christian Thomas on that list for me.
7. Christian Thomas, Right Wing
Date of birth: 05/26/1992
Age: 19
Height: 5’9’’
Weight: 170
Shoots: Right
Statistics: 66 GP, 55 G, 99 P (Oshawa-OHL)
Acquired: Second round, 40th overall in 2010 by New York Rangers
The Good: Thomas is an above-average skater who took his speed to a new level this season and impressed many NHL sources in that regard. On top of good speed, he’s also a quick, agile skater with a powerful first few steps. His feet are always moving due to a top-end work ethic and he plays a waterbug type of style where he flies and disturbs all over the ice. He’s a very tough kid who gets a ton of praise for his character and intangibles, as he will go into the physical areas with the biggest of players and work his tail off to win those battles. Thomas has a plus shot and his 55 goals this season are a small testament to his goal-scoring abilities. One NHL executive said on Thomas that “Those 55 goals weren’t tap-ins, as he was simply scoring from everywhere on the ice.”
The Bad: Thomas has a tendency to overuse his best weapon, as he can be a bit of a chucker with the puck the second he gets an open lane. His hockey sense is questionable in his ability to anticipate the play or read the ice. Thomas has solid hands, but isn’t a true creator and is more of a give-and-go player with the puck. His physical game likely won’t get beyond fringe despite his great work ethic because of his smallish stature. Thomas also needs to work on his defensive game in terms of his reads.
Projection: An average third line forward who can likely project into a bottom six in some role and his shot will get him ice time on a second unit power play.
I think Thomas will be a good player. Let him play his last year in juniors, then a year in Hartford. I thought I made that logic clear with “all the home-grown Rangers forwards except Stepan played in the AHL one full year.” The point has nothing to do with his “style of play.” As I stated earlier, it’s about rushing prospects who show promise but don’t deliver because they aren’t ready.
Maybe you should read The Prospect Park article, a light may come on. Or see the new thread
Hoggo II
You do realize the goal production in draft year is a horrible comparison with these two, look at who Skinner played with and how good his team was..exact opposite for Thomas. Would draft outlook have been different if they were on different teams?
I wipe my ass with Hockey Prospectus and Central Scouting. Its all a crap shoot.
BTW-Have you ever watched Thomas play or are you basing your opinion solely on what others think?
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Aug 24, 2011 6:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think starting the season in Europe should have any impact on Thomas' status
I don’t see any reason that matters. It is a road trip, a long one, but just that. WJC teams play the tournament on other continents and Thomas is a candidate for the WJC this year. If the tournament was in Russia or Sweden this year, he’d make the trip for that. There’s no reason he can’t make the trip to Europe with the Rangers, assuming he earns a spot on the team.
it’s not the best way to start a rookie’s career. especially for a player that should go back to juniors.
by Richter1994 on Aug 24, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Wolski has the tenacity that is required playing on a line with the likes of Richards and Gaborik.
Who is doing the forechecking? Who is getting the pucks in the corners. Who is taking the hits to make plays? When I was watching the MSG summer ice games, (has anyone else noticed that it always seems to be the Isles or the Devils playing?) the Islanders were playing, and their biggest issue was the exact opposite of that of the Rangers last year. The Isle’s transition game was absolutely fine, but once they got into the O-zone, they couldn’t set up, work the puck along the boards, move it back to the point, etc. The Dmen just pushed them to the sideboards and rendered them completely ineffective. The Isle’s couldn’t make any space. I see a line of Wolski-Richards-Gaborik having that problem.
I like Fedetenko on that line. He is the perfect player to depolarize the ratio of skill to grit. He is proven to be fantastic in all of the facets that would be deprived in a Wolski-Richards-Gaborik like.
Also, that leaves more balance for the other 3 lines as well.
Just my opinion.
#12 Carl Hagelin
by The Blue Seats on Aug 24, 2011 11:43 AM EDT reply actions
Fedotenko’s best fit is next to Boyle-Prust, you need that 2nd defensive-minded line behind Anisimov’s line. I’m aware that means Rupp is technically more than a 4th liner, but that can addressed. Back to the top line, if the grit is an issue, you put Dubinsky with Richards, that solves the issue quickly. Then you put Wolski with Anisimov and Callahan, Rupp w/ Stepan and Zuccarello to give that line the grit needed.
Wolski’s not a complete dog when it comes to digging in the corners. I can think of several occasions late in the year (Bruins comeback for one) where he did the work down low to create chances/goals. He’s a fairly big dude who is capable of controlling things if he digs his heels in. His issue is compete level, and when (not iff) that issue rears it’s head, you adjust the lines.
I think it’s pretty likely he starts with Richards though. That seems to be how they are built, and the only thing I think that changes it is if he plans to use Richards/Gaborik in a power v power role, which then requires Dubinsky’s defense on the line. Fedotenko, while a good 2-way player, won’t be enough there.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 24, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
They do show too many Isles and Devils games, but tonight is our SO victory in San Jose, which I believe included a monster hit by Staal on Kyle Wellwood.
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by Joe1969 on Aug 24, 2011 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks for the heads up.
#12 Carl Hagelin
by The Blue Seats on Aug 24, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
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