New York Rangers Analysis: A Look At The Atlantic Division
by Dig Deep on Sep 5, 2011 7:53 AM EDT
in New York Rangers Analysis
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At this point it is safe to say that we have a good understanding of what rosters will look like when the puck drops for the start of the regular season. In the coming weeks there will almost certainly be a few players who get invited to training camps who will compete alongside prospects to fill in roster spots for teams around the league. This offseason was a busy one, especially for teams in the Atlantic Division, and has left many teams looking drastically different from what they were a year ago.
I tried to include every noteworthy roster movement but I am sure that I missed a few free agent signings. It should be noted that I did not list rookies drafted this year under the "in" section. With so many players on the move in the Atlantic Division the balance of power is now in question. Join me for a look at some of the new faces in the Altantic Division after the jump…
Last Year: 47-23-12 (106 pts) 1st in Atlantic
In: Ilya Bryzgalov, Jaromir Jagr, Jakub Voracek, Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Maxime Talbot, Andreas Lilja, Jason Bacashihua
Out: Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Ville Leino, Kris Versteeg, Nik Zherdev, Darroll Powe, Dan Carcillo, Sean O’Donnell, Rob Bordson, Brian Boucher, Danny Syrvet
The Skinny: The offseason was more than a little bit busy for the Philadelphia Flyers. The men in orange are going to look completely different from the team we saw last year. Gone is the face and heart of the team, captain Mike Richards along with his party boy pal Jeff Carter. Without a doubt the biggest addition to the club is elite goaltender Ilya Bryzgalov. Goaltending has been the biggest question mark in Philadelphia the last few years and the Flyers are hoping that Bryzgalov is the answer (a 9 year $51 million answer). The real question for Philadelphia is if this dramatic gambit will pan out for them. The team has plenty of young, promising prospects (especially forwards) but is rapidly aging at the blue line. Can the Flyers redefine their identity and reclaim the division title?
Last Year: 49-25-8 (106 pts) 2nd in Atlantic
In: Steve Sullivan, Jason Williams, Steve Macintyre, Alexandre Picard, Boris Valabik
Out: Mike Comrie, Maxime Talbot, Alex Kovalev, Eric Godard, Mike Rupp, Chris Conner, Tim Wallace, Corey Potter
The Skinny: Even without the services of Malkin and Crosby for long stretches of the season last year the Penguins found a way to be a playoff team. The Penguins lost a few character players to free agency but are upgrading their offense by adding veteran Steve Sullivan to the mix. The team also has yet to see what James Neal can do when put on a line with (a healthy) Crosby. If Crosby is healthy the Penguins could very easily find themselves dominating the Atlantic. Other offseason additions see the Penguins adding size and grit in players like Macintyre, Williams, and Valabik (almost certainly AHL bound). It is no secret that the Altantic Division is filled with physical teams and some of the toughest players in the league, and the fight-happy Penguins of last year understandably wanted to stay big and tough and protect their skilled players.
Last Year: 44-33-5 (93 pts) 3rd in Atlantic
In: Brad Richards, Tim Erixon, Mike Rupp, Brendan Bell, Andreas Thurreson, Andre Deveaux, Oscar Lindberg
Out: Chris Drury, Vaclav Prospal, Matt Gilroy, Evgeny Grachev, Bryan McCabe, Alex Frolov, Justin Soryal, Todd White, Brodie Dupont, Roman Horak, Ethan Werek
The Skinny: A lot of dead weight was trimmed away from last year’s roster and the Rangers re-signed key young players like Callahan, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Sauer, and Boyle. The team also added some guy from Dallas named Brad Richards and stud defensive prospect Tim Erixon. The Rangers look to build off of last year’s modest success and repeat an appearance in the playoffs. There are plenty of questions about leadership, the powerplay, and inexperience on the blueline but on the whole this year’s roster is much stronger than it was a year ago. The addition of Brad Richards will make a big impact in terms of what the team is capable of offensively and on the powerplay but will change very little about the character of the team. The Rangers remain a gritty, young team with all kinds of potential and one of the best in the business between the pipes.
Last Year: 38-39-5 (81 pts) 4th in Atlantic
In: Peter Harrold, Cam Janssen, Eric Boulton, Stephane Veilleux, Trent Hunter (bought out), Maxim Noreau
Out: Brian Rolston, Pierre Letourneau-Leblond, Anssi Salmela, Olivier Magnan-Grenier, David Mcyntire, Colin White, Mike McKenna
The Skinny: The biggest offseason addition for the Devils isn’t a new acquisition. It is the return of a healthy Zach Parise to the lineup this year. The Devils are a completely different team with Parise in the lineup, without him they struggled for most of the year until a late surge that saw them just falling short of the postseason. Martin Brodeur isn’t getting any younger and this could potentially be one of his last years wearing red, white, and black. With very few additions to the lineup the Devils are looking for in-house answers. With Rolston, Colin White, and Jason Arnott (trade deadline deal with the Capitals last season) out of the lineup the Devils will likely give some hungry young players a real chance to make an impact on a team that is deeply concerned about what it will take to keep Zach Parise in New Jersey for the long haul.
Last Year: 30-39-13 (73 pts) 5th in Atlantic
In: Brian Rolston, Marty Reasoner, Trevor Frischmon, Jon Sim, Tim Wallace
Out: Trent Hunter, Jack Hillen, Doug Weight, Zenon Konopka, Bruno Gervais, Nathan Lawson, Radek Martinek
The Skinny: Much like the Devils the biggest addition to the Islanders lineup isn’t a new face to the team, it is the return of a healthy star. In the case of the New York Islanders it is elite Swiss defenseman Mark Streit. As big of an impact as Streit will make for the Islanders (especially on the PP) the team lost a lot of leadership and some key role players. The biggest addition to the Islanders is Brian Rolston who will almost certainly skate with young star John Tavares on the first line. There are still plenty of concerns for the Isles, none more pressing than their goaltending situation and their lack of depth at defense. The Islanders are just as fast and hard-working as they were last year, but it is hard to imagine them climbing their way out of the basement of the Atlantic Division this season.
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I think this all depends on Crosby and Malkin as to how healthy they are or whether they play at all. Write it down, the Flyers will be lucky to make the playoffs. Bryz will be a bust at $50M and they will be kicking themselves that they could have had a better goalie with Vokoun at $2M per. Brodeur cannot carry the Devs anymore and the Isles will be just tougher to beat. The Rangers could very well contend for first in the division.
agree with you on all points. don’t think the expirement with bryz will turn out well for the flyers, i am not sure what jags has left in the tank, but without him playing a good season i see the flyers missing the playoffs too. healthy pens should win the division, as long fleury has no major slump. devils seem to done. but isles could be a force-to-come maybe in 2 or 3 years but maybe next year. rangers should have a fair chance of finishing in the top two of the div. maybe even first (depends on pens imo)
but of course it could turn out totally different and jags and bryz lead the flyers to the cup, brodeur rejuvanates hisself, crosby stays healthy while brad richards suffers another concussion and the isles beat us six times…. that’s maybe the worst case of the upcoming season
I don’t think it is fair to criticize them about getting Bryzgalov instead of Vokoun when you look at the contracts. Vokoun was disappointed with his offers and went to Washington for a basement price, the Capitals got incredibly lucky.
I think that the Flyers gave up a lot of their chances to “win now” for a chance to do something big three or four years down the road… but by that time both Pronger and Timmonen will be done… and then they have a lot of questions to answer in terms of who the hell they put on their blueline. Very, very risky moves by Philly. The roster they are putting out this year isn’t good enough to go deep in the playoffs.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
But since we’re talking about this year I think the Flyers may not make the playoffs. The future may be a different story. I predict Bryz will be a bust for the $$. Just stating my opinion. I also believe that Vokoun is a better goalie anyway regardless of $$.
Vokoun is probably better but Bryz has more left in the tank. Both of those guys are top ten in the league easily though.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
don’t disagree, but going from a non-hockey crowd to a vicious hockey crowd? may not matter but with some players it does. as we have seen with FAs coming to NY. some of the older FA defensemen that have come here had that deer in headlights look. some were actually scared to play at MSG and make a mistake.
I predict Bryz will be a bust for the $$.
Just like Lundqvist? Hank’s cap hit larger and Bryz and Hank’s numbers have been very similar for the past 3 years.
by NTB on Sep 5, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Hank didn’t come here for the money … he earned it here first
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
I’d be hard-pressed to see a scenario in which the Flyers don’t make the playoffs in the East barring a bunch of injuries.
they may but 7th or 8th seed. but don’t be surprised if they don’t. too much change at one time. plus they changed the heart of the team.
It’s pretty hard for a team with Bryz and that blueline plus an above average offense to fall past 8 teams in an eastern conference that is pretty top heavy.
by KingHenrik on Sep 5, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I gets that’s where we differ. I’m not sold on Bryz in Philly. Much more pressure than playing in the desert. plus you now have JVR and Giroux the focus of the offense. big difference than being a star on the 3rd line or even 2nd line. And Schenn is a couple years away from stardom. it’s tough replacing 60 goals.
Even still Bryzgalov never had a defense like that in front of him in Phoenix and he carried they Coyotes to the playoffs both seasons. The Flyers still have a very balanced offense with each line having a defined role and they still have Briere and Hartnell (with Jagr presumably not totally sold on him though) as well as Voracek playing with JVR who was money in the playoffs last year and Giroux who was a PPG center last year. I do not see how a team like the Canadiens or the Canes or the Leafs with the mediocre rosters they have assembled would leap frog them.
I’m pretty sure that if Philly had not signed another goalie and looked to be content with Leighton and Bobrovsky, Vokoun would have called them up as well.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Bryzgalov is the only thing thats not a question mark on the Flyers this season, speculating a guy can’t handle the pressure just cause his only starting job was in Phoenix is naive. Bryzgalov is one of the best in the league and he will prove it. Still think the Flyers will have a hard time finishing in the top two of the division though.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 5, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
why is it naive? watching sports for 45 years I’ve seen it many times when athletes come from small markets to big markets and they wilt. it’s my prediction that bryz won’t be worth the money so I guess we’ll see.
maybe but they didn’t give the $50m+ to be an above average goalie. I would take our goalie, Rinne, Hiller, Vokoun, and Miller before I take Bryz.
He's put up elite leve numbers over the years
They overpaid in years and a little in money. I think he’ll be their best goalie since Hextall was in his 20’s.
That’s a really long time
R.I.P Derek
Rangers FTW!
by BleedsRangerBlue on Sep 6, 2011 11:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well Giroux is established enough to know he'll put up 70+ points
Hartnell will score 15-20 goals. Briere will put up 25-30 goals. They have a lot of qurestion marks but they do have guys they know what they’ll get out of.
ok but now they are the focus of their offense and the opposing team’s #1 defensive pairing. there’s no Richards and/or Carter to protect them anymore.
yea… this is key. Carter and Richards ate up a lot of tough minutes. There’s going to be a serious adjustment period now. Giroux and JVR, Briere, etc… now have to deal with a higher quality of competition on a nightly basis.
Little nitpick: Giroux played with Carter a lot, so he had tons of help. Now, he’ll have to carry his line, more or less, unless JvR is closer to an 80 pt player than 40 pt player.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with DD for the most part.
Healthy Penguins are top of the division, but Rangers are a close 2nd. Flyers will make playoffs but have an up/down season due to roster turnover. Devils and Islanders bringing up the rear, both unlikely to make playoffs in my opinion.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 9:03 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think the Rangers have a good shot no matter which team is healthy
I would also swap the Devils and the Flyers, I’m not too sure the Flyers are a playoff team this year, I think the Devils might be though.
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by Joe Fortunato on Sep 5, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely, Rangers match up much better now against a healthy Penguins team, could be 1A / 1B situation. It will be nice to not feel they are so over matched when the Penguins roll Malkin or Crosby every other shift.
Its tough to pick against the Devils, but outside of Kovalchuck and Parise they don’t have much. I think the Flyers are deeper and will get more stable goalie play. But it wouldn’t surprise me if they swapped.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 9:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the only reason that I think the flyers won’t make the playoffs is because they made too many changes in too short of time to have any cohesion…but i still think that the goaltending will be just enough to carry them to a low seed
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personally i tdon’t think that the devils have so much upsight…maybe they reach the playoffs but i don’t think it will happen. philly is just a big question mark… i have isles over devils, maybe even over philly, but maybe that’s just because i am from austria and want to see a good season von grabner although i don´t like the isles, like every other rangers fan
(CHOKE, COUGH) The Islanders have several good, young, talented scorers. They just improved there D a bit also. I think they are going to the playoffs this year, Flyers out. I also think the Panthers might break their playoff streak too.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
by nathansfamous on Sep 5, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Panthers making the playoffs really?
The signed and traded for aging dmen and signed a bunch of third line forwards. They also downgraded their goaltending big time. I see them being one of the worst teams in the league easily.
by graves9 on Sep 5, 2011 3:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, maybe if they still had Vokoun but the goaltending is terribly weak.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 5, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Devils are going to need a lot of offense out of Parise and Kovalchuk to make it to the postseason this year.
Looking at their defense makes you shake your head and wonder what the hell happened to what they had going on there half a decade or so ago.
I won’t be shocked if the Flyers come up short of the playoffs. They may very well be a team that doesn’t allow opponents to put more than two goals past them everynight but they certainly don’t have the variety of weapons they did a year ago. Last year they had a team that could scratch Nik Zherdev and think nothing of it. This year they are hoping that Jagr will be able to be a powerplay beast and that guys like Schenn and JVR step up huge for them.
Wouldn’t be happy to be a Flyers fan this year.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Both those guys are perfectly capable of that, as is Elias. Their center depth isnt good now though with Zajac out.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Devils playoff hopes hinge on fatso. If he plays well enough, and K-chuck continues to buy into the “team first” system, Devils make it to the dance. Otherwise, they’re on the outside looking in.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
The Devils are pretty thin at pretty much every position except LW, I think Brodeur would have to turn back the clock a few years for me to take them seriously.
Their defemse is awful and besides for their top three forwards where is the offense coming from?
by graves9 on Sep 6, 2011 11:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, they have four forwards that can flirt with 70 points in Zajac, Elias, Parise, and Kovalchuk. So there’s that. Zubrus, Clarkson, Tedenby, and Josefson should chip in with 10-20 goals each, maybe more.
Their defense is young but not terrible. Tallinder and Volchenkov and Greene are all solid guys who can fill in or play on the top pair for extended periods of time without embarrassing themselves, and between Larsson, White, Fayne, etc, there are some more guys that are NHL-caliber. Really, I think they’re short a top-4, and that’s it.
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Must have missed that. Whoops.
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad you agree with me.
That the Penguins found a way to win without Crosby and Malkin (and Staal in the beginning of the year) for long stretches is amazing. They got a lot bigger, a lot deeper, and a lot healthier in the offseason. As of today Crosby is still a very big question mark but all signs point to Malkin being ready to go.
If Crosby isn’t there for October their top six forwards still look something like:
Neal, Malkin, Sullivan
Kunitz, Staal, Dupuis/Kennedy
Which is not too shabby considering they are missing their best player. Add to that a very well balanced and promising defensive group and they are still one hell of a team (as much as it pains me to say it).
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Blysma is a great coach.
Of all things I took away from the HBO series, he made a lasting impression. Analytical and leans in when necessary.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 12:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I got the same impression.
Also I learned that I can’t look Brooks Laich in the eyes too long or I start to question my sexuality.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Pretty much the polar opposite of Torts in coaching style.
#12 Carl Hagelin
by The Blue Seats on Sep 5, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. But I think we’ll see that Torts isn’t exactly Boudreau. Torts can be emotional, but he’s very exact and pointed in what he’s critiquing and looking for from players. Boudreau looks like a guy who yells for the sake of yelling, without focus.
Maybe this is biased on a small sample of sound bytes and video clips, but given the identities their teams have forged it might be true.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 3:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.
I didn’t mean that in a bad way, I am a big supporter of Torts.
I think that he is the one that turned this ship around. I know it isn’t popular in opinion, but I think that Torts has been playing GM since he got here…. Think about the change of administrative demeanor since he got here. I don’t think Sather woke up one day and had an epiphany and decided to exercise frugality for the first time in his Rangers tenure. Think about how his players emulate his personality on the ice.
He, Gordie Clark, and Gorton are, in my opinion, the ones who built this team. Of course Sather deserves some credit, but Tortorella has really done a fantastic job laying out the foundation of the team.
#12 Carl Hagelin
by The Blue Seats on Sep 5, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. In my book Rangers over-achieved (given injuries) last year because of Torts. Capitals under-achieved (in part) due to Boudreau.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 5:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
winning the east with 107 points is hardly under-achieving. Bowing out to TB in 4 after having trouble with us is a different story. That doesn’t really fall on the coach at that point. Players need to execute. OV looked just like he did in the olympics – tries to do it all and looses.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
Them winning the East had more to do with others ineptitude and injuries. A good coach gets the best out of their players when they need them…how does Boudreau do in that area?
Can you seriously say that with all the talent Washington has that zero Finals appearances isn’t a huge disappointment?
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 8:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I might agree with you if they won the east with less than 100 points. Also, they’ve been on top of the east for more than just one season – again, hardly under achieving. Trouble is they have had a team that chokes in the playoffs. If that is somehow the coaches fault, then so be it. I have no love for BB, he strikes me as a guy in way over his head, but the results show they have been successful. Like I said before the playoffs started last year, the caps will never win a cup without a proven goalie and OV as their captain/centerpiece. They may have just solved one of those problems, but OV doesn’t make the guys around him better, he tries to do it all himself – something BB doesn’t have the authority/ability to ever change.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
by bleed'n blue on Sep 5, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ovie's amazing and to blame him for the Caps failures is silly
Oh and great players make their teams and teammates better. Go look at his absurd ‘07-08 season where he carried that team to the playoffs and had one of the more dominant seasons you’ll ever see.
by graves9 on Sep 5, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
really? I’d take Datsyk over OV every day of the week. OV’s cut from the same mold as K-Chuck. They are great individual players, but come playoff time, when better opponents play them as a team, they fail. Individuals don’t win in the NHL, teams do.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
by bleed'n blue on Sep 6, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe if both were 18 again would I take Datsyuk. But Ovie is going to win a cup its a matter of time he has the supporting cast and now they have the goaltender the only thing needed is a better coach. Boudreau sucks hes terrible, Washington needs a coach that can implement a plan and not just throw Ovie out there to do everything. Their post-season failure is not solely Ovies fault for trying to do too much, its Boudreau’s fault as well.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 6, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ovechkin'as playoff numbers tell a different tale
With all due reaspect you’re lost.
by graves9 on Sep 6, 2011 11:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
so we’ll disagree. 37 playoff games, 50 points over 5 seasons. Nice #‘s, but not nearly dropping the compass in the woods lost. Not even in top 50 in points per game. Again, great individual player. You can keep up the OV love fest here on the banter, and I’ll maintain that the only way OV’s name will be on the cup is as an ancelatory performer like Hossa in Chicago.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
Nice #‘s, but not nearly dropping the compass in the woods lost. Not even in top 50 in points per game.
It’s the highest average among active players, I’m fairly sure (it was prior to this postseason, not sure if that changed).
And what do you mean by not top-50? Did you include guys with less than a full series played or something like that?
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
good catch – he’s actually 4th. BUT, only through 37 games in 5 seasons. Everyone else on the list has played excessivly more games, and therefore a more reliable sample size. Also, in only two seasons they made it past the first round, so you could make a competition level argument as well. Look I’m not saying OV isn’t a good hockey player, but his style is decidedly not team oriented. Something this thread started on why I don’t pick the CAPS to go very far until it changes.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
If you’re going to refer to sample sizes then I’ll take the sample size of the past 4 seasons where the Caps were the SE division winners, including 2 seasons finishing atop the Eastern conference as evidence that Ovechkin is a “team player”. You might have a more compelling argument if Ovechkin disappeared during the playoffs, but that is clearly not the case.
Now I won’t go as far to say that the NHL playoffs are as much of a crapshoot as the MLB playoffs, but players and teams going on 2 or 3 skids is not all that uncommon at any point of the year and we all know losing 2 or 3 games in a row in the playoffs is usually fatal for a team’s playoffs chances. Again, Ovechkin has tended to be a player the Caps can count on in in the springtime. I wouldn’t hold the fact that his teammates haven’t held up their end of the bargain as an indictment against Ovechkin’s abilities.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Sep 6, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and therein is my argument. Other than two IIHF world championship golds (2003 U20 & 2008), his teammates seem to ALWAYS disappear when needed. This isn’t individual player hate like graves9 thinks. The guy continues to pile up individual stats, but when championships are on the line, his teamates disappoint – at virtually every level. Is he just a phenomenally talented player with uncharacteristic bad luck?
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
I don’t know if I’d define it as luck, but there are certainly great players that have played on talented teams that for some reason never got it done. Or sometimes it takes a few massive disappointments and finally a team gets over the hump.
I look at Yzerman as a good example. Before finally winning the Cup in 97, the Wings were considered perennial disappointments (93-94 and 94-95 certainly come to mind). People wondered whether Stevie Y should get all the praise he did because he didn’t have the hardware that some of the other elite centers in the league had. 3 Cups later and he’s considered the emobidment of a leader and a winner.
I’d say this past playoffs is the only one that’s a real head scratcher as far as why the Caps didn’t go as far as their talent suggests. The year before that they ran into an insanely hot Montreal team and prior to that they lost to the eventual Stanley Cup champion.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Sep 6, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
good catch – he’s actually 4th.
Everyone else on the list has played excessivly more games, and therefore a more reliable sample size
You know what’s a more reliable sample size than 9 out of 37 playoff games where he clearly came up short? The 475 regular season games for which he’s lit up opposing goalies.
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
his regular season points in ‘07-’08 was touted as one of the best (most dominant) all time. I’m saying it isn’t in the top 50. It was then caviated to last 15 years.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
Era adjusted I’m sure it is. Best since the lockout, at least (Jagr, Thornton, and Crosby had higher point totals, but had huge power play numbers when teams were spending much more time on the PP coming out of the lockout, and the latter two did it mainly with assists).
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
is there really that much of an era adjustment from the 80’s and 90’s to now?
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
…are you kidding? In Gretzky’s heyday (through mid 80s) it was 8+ g/gm, now it’s a little under 5.8, I think. Here’s a list. (note that in this comment I went with combined g/gm, whereas the list is single-team)
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
the link you sent says, for example 80-81; 3.84 g/gm, and 03-04; 2.57. Not sure where the 8+ and 5.8 are coming from. A couple of other sites look a little more like what your’re saying. But isn’t it possible that there were better players then and the game was really the same? I mean all those goals and still wooden sticks. It’s not like baseball where you can juice the ball.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
Players were a lot less athletic, especially goaltenders. The evolution of their equipment has made them able to demonstrate their true athleticism along with the size of the average goalie becoming much larger.
A few years ago I saw on espn a split screen comparison of Crosby and Gretzky in the 80s. The speed of the game now makes the 80s look like slow motion. A guy like Ovechkin would probably challenge the single season goal record in Gretzky’s era.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Sep 6, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
A guy like Ovechkin or Crosby would probably shatter that record in that era, no disrespect for The Great One intended. Just a matter of truth, the game has gotten a lot more advanced since those days.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 7, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I read somewhere that players used to smoke in between periods, and that training camps were actually meant to get players in shape. Now, smoking is athletic suicide and guys quit for the season (as far as I know) and guys have to arrive in camp in game-ready shape.
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by red army line on Sep 7, 2011 5:40 AM EDT up reply actions
the link you sent says, for example 80-81; 3.84 g/gm, and 03-04; 2.57. Not sure where the 8+ and 5.8 are coming from.
I remembered that in Gretzky’s record year, it was over 8 per game, combined (2 teams per game). That lists single team averages. So multiply by two. There’s a “4.01” in the early 80s.
Scoring was up post lockout. Now I think it’s somewhere around 2.7-2.8 per game per team, so 5.4-5.6 per team. I think the Caps and Canucks inflated it quite a bit last season, but scoring decreased again this past year.
Goals came more frequently, plain and simple. More goals for = more assists, at a minimum.
No, I think there are better players now. Couple population growth with expanding interest in hockey among youth and that’s how you get a series of drafts as strong as 2002-2011.
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by red army line on Sep 7, 2011 5:39 AM EDT up reply actions
We probably should make a new post for this thread
It’s very interresting how on one hand we talk about how players are “better” today, more athletic (not sure what that means), equipment is better (stickes, skates, etc.) but scoring is down. back in 99’s hayday there was clutching and grabing, albiet not like the eary 90’s, but still everyone was more or less on the same playing field. Still Gretzky, Lemieux and co, put up those numbers. The only thing I can think of is the goalie equipment is too big. As for size of goalies, Dryden was every bit as big as any goalie today.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
Butterfly and more parity are the two biggest factors in my mind.
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by red army line on Sep 7, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That's just silly
The guy is a top two or three players in the game. If he stays healthy and continues to produce he’ll go down as one of the beast players ever. Hating on him because other players on the team are deficent doesn’t make a lick of sense.
Why are you faulting Ovechkin for a team stat (wins)?
OV’s cut from the same mold as K-Chuck.
No, they’re not. Both are likely HOFers, but Kovy is a pure sniper. He doesn’t drive Corsi, he just finishes, plain and simple. Ovechkin isn’t 8 SDs above the mean in shooting skill like Kovy is estimated to be, but what he does is drive Corsi a huge amount and his rate stats (points/60 and goals/60, among others) are spectacular.
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
that “absurd” ‘07-08 season point totals of 118 doesn’t even make the top 50 best single season #‘s for a player. It’s good, but hardly one of the best I’ve ever seen.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
by bleed'n blue on Sep 6, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
it was one ofg the best season over the last fifteen years
He carried an average team on his back to the playoffs.
by graves9 on Sep 6, 2011 11:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
so now they are an “average team”? This thread started by stating the CAPS under achieved. Which is it?
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
07-08. I think that team was very underrated and actually elite that year, but you’ll see there isn’t inconsistent logic. One year the Caps didn’t finish top-5 in points, that year. I think it’s fair to say that a 65-48-113 season on a team whose next highest scorer was at 69 is pretty special. Those 65 goals I believe are 3rd once you adjust for era (think only Lemieux and Brett Hull have done better), and it was the first 60 goal campaign since the mid 90s (Lemieux and Jagr).
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like the absurd comments Yankees fans made about ARod before he carried them to the world series title in '09.
by graves9 on Sep 5, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A-rod wears a ring, and his post season performance justified it. When OV does the same, or even leads a team deep into the playoffs, I’ll agree. Comparing an individual at-bat sport like baseball to a flowing team game like hockey is what’s absurd.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
by bleed'n blue on Sep 6, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Yet you blame Ovie for the Caps struggles in the playoffs
look at his playoffs numbers. I guess it’s Ovie’s fault that Varlamov blew the series in ’09 vs the Pens by getting beat glove side over and over again.
by graves9 on Sep 6, 2011 11:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't forget
Semin being a no show in the series vs MTL 2 years ago and Backstrom being a non-factor last year.
While star players in hockey do influence the game to a larger degree than in baseball, your best players still are on the ice for only 20 or so minutes a game. 2009-10 Rangers are a great example, you had Gaborik doing most of the heavy lifting and then a pop gun offense beyond him.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Sep 6, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
+10000000
Torts is definitely the man who turned the ship around and got us back on track, If we win a cup in the next few years, he’s the savior.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 5, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think if you had Blysma coaching the Capitals last season and Boudreau the Penguins, the Caps go deeper in the playoffs and Penguins are watching the playoffs.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 6, 2011 4:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Blysma coaching the Caps gets them a Stanley Cup in my opinion.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 6, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tyutin got 6 year $27M extension
Tyutin > Girardi ? I’m inclined to say no, but what do others think.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 10:26 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I take Girardi over Tyutin happily. All you have to do is look at what Dan Girardi did for his team in the playoffs last season. Yes he is painfully slow and adds very little in terms of offense but the guy plays defense the way it should be played, between the ears.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
agreed
Girardi does so many good things for this team that you would miss if he left
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
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by Joe Fortunato on Sep 5, 2011 12:10 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Takes the body, stick checks with the best of them, blocks shots like he gets a $1,000 bonus every time he does it. Starting to add a little bit more nasty into his game. Never thought I’d say it but I love what Dan Girardi brings to the Rangers, he is becoming even more valuable with all the kids we have in the lineup now.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Heh, overpayment for Tyutin I think, but I think he brings a bit more offense than Girardi.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Girardi had 31 pts in 80 games, Toots had 28 points in 80 games last season.
by Claudia Matty Pepin on Sep 5, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
At even strength
Girardi – 22
Tyutin – 15
#12 Carl Hagelin
by The Blue Seats on Sep 5, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Tyutin has a great shot from the point, but I thought he’d get closer to 3.5-3.75M per.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 1:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Man that Tyutin- Zherdev trade sure worked out
by graves9 on Sep 5, 2011 3:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sather and whoever handled pro scouting at the time must have only watched youtube videos to scout. We’ve talked Zherdev to death, he’s part of the past and this team is moving forward to better things without him.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 5:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
More open than it has been
Flyers will have an adjustment period at some point in the season. Pens without Crosby are good but not great. Devils, who knows. Islanders will play well for short periods of time.
The Rangers may have the most continuity outside of Pitts. This should help. Question is whether the improvements from last year were the top of the mountain or just the beginning. Injuries will still be a factor (read Gaborik).
Should be fun.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Sep 5, 2011 10:32 AM EDT reply actions
117 votes so far
And not a single one for the Islanders? Somewhere a puppy just drowned in its own tears.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Not to mention not a single vote for the Devils.
Why am I acting surprised? I write for a Rangers blog.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
We may be Ranger fans but we're not stupid.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Sep 5, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Voting for the Devils is defensible, I think.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Possible, but not very probable.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 2:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I tried to leave my humor out of this post because if I started making jokes about how little the Islanders and Devils did in the offseason I would have never finished the article.
The Islanders are bringing back Jon Sim… the Jon Sim. The rumor mill says they are going to invite McCabe, Samsonov, Chris Clark, and Jay Pandolfo (confirmed) to training camp.
They lose Martinek (a poor man’s Rozsival), Hillen, Gervais (for future considerations), and Konopka and bring in Rolston, Reasoner, and two guys I’ve never heard of. They are going to need monster seasons out of Rolston, Grabner, Tavares, Moulson, and Okposo and they are really, really going to need Mark Streit to be the player he was two years ago.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
I don't understand Garth.
They have assembled great young talent that is on cusp of NHL readiness, but they do nothing to ease growing pains or accelerate progress of the team. Why not spend a few million on some guys who can lighten load on Tavares/Grabner/PA Pap Smear..until Nino N and others are ready. What they are doing is wasting ELC years for some guys.
They must be on hard spending limit and not able to above floor, makes no sense otherwise.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So who are those veterans Dig listed? Rolston and Reasoner can handle defensive ice time, so can Streit. No one should be asked to play well beyond their level. Don’t forget Frans Nielsen is still there.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Islanders are going to have difficulty replicating the play they had over last half of the season when they were out of it by December. They will be competitive but probably end up only 10-12 points better this year.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 2:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Isles missed a big opportunity to draft a real shut down D in Hamilton who fell right into their laps, IMO, nothing against Strome who is at least 2 years away. Hamilton might be able to play this year.
You might be right..
They must think Streit, Hamonic and De Haan are enough. That’s a good threesome but not sure they couldn’t have used more grit on blue line. I think Strome pick is an admission that Bailey is disappointment to date.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 5:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bailey is a two way center, and Strome an offensive dynamo. Forwards mature more rapidly than defensemen. They have their young D. Now they need someone better than PAP to help turn Tavares into a superstar.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying Bailey is not a disappointment based on where they took him and what they expected?
I have no doubt Bailey will be a productive player and have long career, but he’s not going to be what they hoped.
Strome, like Nino and others is great offensive players at Juniors level and international play. Will reserve judgment until they do it at pro level.
Who else do they have on D outside of Streit, Harmonic and De Haan? I’m drawing a blank.
They should pony up and get Semin.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 6:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They are different types of players that were projected to fill different needs as it is. No, I don’t think so. Do you think that the Capitals’ picking Evgeny Kuznetsov in 2010 meant they thought Marcus Johansson, 1st rounder in 2009, was a bust? No. The former is the offensive whiz, the latter the two-way force. Different players.
Macdonald. Mayfield. Donovan. Here’s a good look.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
On defense they have Andrew McDonald . Don’t let yourself fool by his cheap contract, he was their best defenseman last season.
That being said, I know, their defense still looks bad.
Garth definitely tries, barely anyone wants to sign there.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 5, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Clark is going to boston on a try out
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
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"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Yashin is still skating at Islanders training facility.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 12:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
so is Tommy Salo…but that doesn’t mean anything
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Thank god, Jon Sim will not be back
The Bridgeport Sound Tigers, issued last year’s press release for mistake.
I normally despise MSG promos (especially those for the Knicks)
But the new promos with Brad Richards put blood in it for me.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 12:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Toss up!
Who finishes with more points this year
Mike Richards of the LA Kings
or
Jaromir Jagr of the Philly Flyers?
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Better question might be who finishes with the most goals.
@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."
Richards
Jagr will put up 15-18 goals.. Richards 20-25.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 12:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Richards, easy. I think he’s going to be very productive on the PP, like in his Selke nomination season.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
my big prediction
Jagr pulls a hammy or something in november…doesn’t play again till february
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
He'll be unhappy that he doesn't have Nylander as his center then pout the entire anyways
Who is centering him anyways?
R.I.P Derek
Rangers FTW!
by BleedsRangerBlue on Sep 5, 2011 1:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
*season
R.I.P Derek
Rangers FTW!
by BleedsRangerBlue on Sep 5, 2011 1:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Giroux or Briere with Nylander being a dark horse
I hate the Flyers, but I find it hard not to root for Jagr to play well, considering the part he played in turning this franchise around. I’ll never forgot his insane ‘05-06 season. One of the best seasons in Rangers history. Anyway I think he’ll score 25 goals this year.
by graves9 on Sep 5, 2011 3:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jagr gets a career year in goals just watch
by XxC17xX on Sep 5, 2011 1:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What’s his highest number of goals in 1 season ..I bet he tops it
by XxC17xX on Sep 5, 2011 1:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jagr..
I think he’ll be effective in the other teams zone but a liability on other 2/3 of the rink. He looked okay in WC but the NHL is a different bowl of ear wax. Most his points will come on PP. Will be interesting to see how his legs hold up.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 1:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No chance. Jagr has gone 60+ back in the 90s.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be surprised if Jagr
even topped 25 goals honestly. He scored 19 I think last year in the KHL (granted in less games) but he’s another year older and the NHL is another level from the KHL.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Sep 5, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I am pretty sure Jagr is going to be killer
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
I'm not saying he's not going to have a good year
But I would be shocked if he scored more than 25 goals.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers the only NHL team with three home arenas.
"We can trade Lisin for a gun, then hold it to Drury’s head and make him waive the no-movement clause" - XLII
"Tortorelli sounds like a kind of pasta… an unforgiving, stubborn, chewy, flavorless pasta that demands ‘jam’ from other pastas." - Dig Deep
by Joe Fortunato on Sep 5, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Same. He is old and has been playing in a junior varsity league. I think 15-20 goals, as a good year for him.
Not fair to the KHL. Guys who transfer between the top league in Russia and the NHL typically retain 70% of their points per game rate. That’s better than any other league right now.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the JV comparison is fair and your stat supports it. I didn’t say peewee league or anything. But the NHL and KHL are definitely not equal. If Jags got 19 goals there and his ppg drops 30% he’ll end up in the range I predict.
Okay, sorry, didn’t realize in your analogy varsity is the NHL.
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by red army line on Sep 5, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Torts + Old Man Jagr
Like lamb and tuna fish.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 5:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I see the Pens, Rangers and Flyers make the playoffs in that order
I think the Flyers have enough talent up front and their goaltending is nuch improved.The have a nice blend of age and youth on the blueline. I’m not exactly going out on a limn by saying that a lot will depend on Pronger’s health.
by graves9 on Sep 5, 2011 3:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
2. Pens (unless Crosby and a lesser extent Malkin do not come back 100% healthy then I could see the Flyers or Rangers making a run at the division)
4. Flyers
6. Rangers
10. Devils
12. Islanders
rounding out the east ...
1. Caps
2. Boston
3. Pens
4. MTL (down to last weekend with Bos)
5. NYR (7-10 points behind Pitt)
5+ point split
6. TB
7. Buf
8. Isles (down to last weekend with Philly/NJD – free tatoo promo night pushes them over the top)
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
I think the Isles are a few years away from being a playoff team
I would be shocked if they finished ahead of the Flyers.
yea, but it’s currently more fun to predict the Devils and Philly choking than continuing to kick the Long Island dog.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
by bleed'n blue on Sep 5, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Winter classic or not?
I know this is completely off topic and I apologize..but when will they officially confirm the classic? When it was the Sid/ovech show..they were all over it..just another way to give the rangers the shaft IMO. The NHL website said they would release info in the coming week..which was like 3 weeks ago…any thoughts??
by inHANKweTruST on Sep 5, 2011 7:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I heard they want the Islanders and not the Rangers.
The character and talent the Islanders showed in their 9-2 beat down of the full strength Penguins was so impressive they went to the front of the line. That seminal moment in NHL history, since voted greatest hockey game ever by high school drop outs living in their parents basement who eat cereal with cartoon characters on the box for lunch more than 4 times a week…is redefining the history of the Islanders and the NHL as a whole from a marketing perspective.
GB loves the nostalgic feel of Nassau Veterans Coliseum and can’t wait to shoot behind the scenes video there. I also hear that the Islanders are entering an agreement with a mobile tattoo shop run out of an RV with optional rub and tug package with each Capt. Fishticks tattoo purchased…it will be setting up shop outside Lincoln Financial the week before the winter classic.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Sep 5, 2011 7:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What a disgrace...I can't stand it :(
The league has made a mockery of what has been and could have been an even bigger PR piece, esp in light of all the tragic things going on during this particular off-season.
1st, they release the sked and the only aft game on or around the 1/1/12 is us agst. PHL so clearly it’s the WC, yet they insult our intelligence by saying: “nope, nope…it’s not official yet. Hold on to your helmets, yee ol’ stupid ones.”
Then, they promise and deny several times to “officially” announce it as THE game, when meanwhile, scalpers are already selling tix at astronomical prices on their sites and supposed jersey “designs” are getting leaked.
What an absolute debauchery Bettman and Co. have made of this ANTI-“classic”!!?? :(
I first voted for the devils, because of their play from the second week in dec to the end of the season… but i did not know that zajac was out untill nov! so I voted rangers, to many question marks for the other teams.
flyers: playoff numbers don’t always translate to regular season numbers(jvr=franzen?). they make the playoffs but lower then 4th seed. out of all the teams in the east i do not want the rangers to see them in the playoffs. I could also see them bust like the devils last year then finish strong. To many BIG moves.
pens: crosby? so if he is healthy then drop the rangers to 2. even without crosby i think the pens will finish higher then the flyers but the flyers would eliminate them in 6 games in the playoffs.
isles: who knows? the goalie that stays healthy knows and is key to this team. no playoffs but close.
Reasons Why Bryzgalov Won't Work Short Term and Long Term
1) Coyotes fans pretty much have an all around same feeling that Bryz let’s in a lot of soft goals, and is a bad playoff goalie.
2) He’s way too expensive and this contract put the Flyers in Cap space hell again.
3) He’s not a franchise goalie. There are only a few goalies you base a franchise around and Lundqvist, Fleury, Miller, Luongo, and even Cam Ward are it. If Thomas and Brodeur were younger I would have included them. The Flyers are basically putting their play off hopes all on the line with Bryzgalov.
4) What kind of idiot GM gives a GOALIE of all players a NMC???? Even Sather isn’t dumb enough to do that. I don’t even think that has ever happened before. Dumbest move ever. Who knows how he’ll be 5 years from now. The contract length was bad enough but to add a NMC made it 100000000x worse.
5) Phoenix and Philly are 2 different planets.
John Tortorella on 24/7 will be like Ari Gold on Entourage.
I am the f*cking game pal - Johnny Drama
You wanna hug it out? Let's hug it out bitch - Ari Gold
I practice Prustbyterianism
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Sep 5, 2011 8:37 PM EDT reply actions
Haha. I like to steal the limelight, not share it.
John Tortorella on 24/7 will be like Ari Gold on Entourage.
I am the f*cking game pal - Johnny Drama
You wanna hug it out? Let's hug it out bitch - Ari Gold
I practice Prustbyterianism
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Sep 5, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
something we completely agee on! Hopefully we’re right.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
by bleed'n blue on Sep 5, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
What does age have to do with it?
If you’re a franchise goalie you’re a franchise goalie. Look at the season Thomas had last year.
No one signed Thomas to a 10 year deal. Ever in his career. Every goalie I put has Been with the same club with the exception of luongo. I should have included brodeur reflecting back but no one entrusted the fate of the bruins with Tim thomas.
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by RichieToGabbySCORE on Sep 5, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
What other NHL team has Thomas played for?
This will be his seventh full season as a starter and He’s won two vezinas in three years therefore he’s a franchise goalie. Pretty simple really.
They did this past year and back in '08-09
look at his numbers he’s clearly a franchise goalie. He has 3-4 more big years and all of a sudden you can make a case for him being in the hall of fame.
Bryzgalov had one off year in 08-09, where his numbers were good. Usually his numbers are fantastic.
Year Team GP W L OT SO S% GAA
2007-2008 Coyotes 55 26 22 5 3 .921 2.43
2008-2009 Coyotes 65 26 31 6 3 .906 2.98
2009-2010 Coyotes 69 42 20 6 8 .920 2.29
2010-2011 Coyotes 68 36 20 10 7 .921 2.48
NHL TOTALS 326 156 116 35 23 .916 2.53
Beyond Yandle, the Coyotes defense is nothing to write home about.
You guys need to stop pretending he isn’t an elite goaltender.
#12 Carl Hagelin
by The Blue Seats on Sep 5, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Any goalie can have good stats and still be overrated. Chris Osgood is the most overrated player ever who might make the hall of fame sadly.
Bryzgalov might be top 10 but there’s a huge difference between top 10 and top 5 or even 3. He might even have a hard time cracking the top 10.
Goalies I would take over Bryz instantly are:
Lundqvist
Thomas
Fluery
Ward
Luongo
Rinne
Miller
Too close to call are Price, Halak, Vokoun, Brodeur.
Is Bryz a top 10 goalie? Probably. It’s closer than you think.
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by RichieToGabbySCORE on Sep 5, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
For me,
Rinne
Lundqvist
Ward
Miller
Luongo
Bryzgalov
dont get me started on Thomas, hes had two great years bookending a horrific one in where he lost the starting job. He is super inconsistent and has a great defense in front of him. Two years ago anaylsts even said he got lucky during that first great year. Last year could definitely been more of the same, I need to see him put another great season together before I get respect for him. personally I would take Bryzgalov as the 6th best goalie in the league, and he’s pretty close to Luongo for me as well. Because if Bryz has playoff trouble so does Luongo but he has the team in front to cover his butt most of the time.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 6, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Thomas' 09-10 season was a off year, but
I wouldn’t call it horrific. He still had a 915 save percentage and a 2.56 G.A.A. Thomas’ two vezina trophy winning years were Hasek like years.
He lost the starting job and was straight awful, and he wasn’t really anything before his 08-09 season either. I give the man credit for working hard and getting into the league and having so far two fantastic seasons, but naming him an Elite goaltender that can be counted on to carry a team I do not buy.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 6, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
He has had two Hasek type years
and it’s not like he hasn’t had other good years. He was far from bad from ’05-08. And again a 2.56 G.A.A and a .915 save percentage with a injured hip is pretty damn good still.
by graves9 on Sep 6, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't go that far
He lost the starting job because he wasn’t playing well and also because Tuukka Rask was playing amazing with numbers like Thomas 08-09.
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by Tripodi on Sep 6, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True he struggled and Rask was great, but
I wouldn’t say he was horrible. I mean a .915 save % in a down year is pretty good.
But I generally agree
Even though Thomas has had 2 great years, it still only 2. If he can keep up his pace for another 2 years or so then I’d put him in the top 5 with Luongo, Hank, Miller, Bryz, and Hiller.
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A player can’t help how overrated the media/fanbase makes him.
What does overrated have to do with any of it? That is the only thing that is relevant is that he is an elite goaltender.
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by The Blue Seats on Sep 6, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Any goalie can have good stats and still be overrated. Chris Osgood is the most overrated player ever
Other than wins, there are no stats that say Osgood was very good. The stats do say that Bryz is good. The issue with him is not quality of play, it’s the laughable and unnecessary contract in a flooded goalie market.
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by George E. Ays on Sep 6, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Any goalie can have good stats and still be overrated. Chris Osgood is the most overrated player ever who might make the hall of fame sadly.
Which stats? Wins? Save percentage over the samples we’re talking about (several seasons, minimum) is a fairly good indicator.
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no use arguing. Ranger fans have this insane notion that Lundqvist is the greatest goalie in the league by a country mile. Everything is viewed through that distorted lens and other teams just can’t compete with us.
The reality is Lundqvist is very good, but so are a number of other goalies who put the same numbers as Lundqvist and have a lower caphit.
by NTB on Sep 6, 2011 8:25 AM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
ahhhhh, not true. The King has the best stats in the last 6 years as a whole and THE ONLY GOALIE IN NHL HISTORY to record at least 30 wins in his first 6 seasons. ONLY GOALIE IN NHL HISTORY. And on pretty bad teams as well. Not to mention he’s won an Olympic gold.
The wins thing needs the little asterisk that says games can’t end in ties any more.
I haven’t done the research (nor do I care to), but I would think somewhere down the line, someone would have had an opportunity at 30 wins if he could’ve played 10-15 shootouts instead of going home with a tie.
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by George E. Ays on Sep 6, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
fair enough but 213 wins, 2.32 GGA, and over .900 save % for the last 6 years is better than anyone else over the same stretch as far as I know.
If Vokoun, Hiller (4 years), Thomas, and Luongo haven’t beaten that, they’ve come close. Bettering .900 six years in a row isn’t that hard to do.
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, .900 is replacement level, if not worse these days. League average at even strength was close to .920, and I think overall it was around .912 or so. (give or take .003)
It’s not knocking Lundqvist who obviously has been excellent, but the gap between him and a couple others guys isn’t all that large.
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by George E. Ays on Sep 6, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
+1 there are many guys that are at the same spot as Hank. Rinne, Ward, Vokoun, Bryzgalov, Fluery, ect.
by CrazyRangerFan on Sep 6, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh to Fleury being in that group.
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by George E. Ays on Sep 7, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No, it’s really not.
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by George E. Ays on Sep 7, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The thing about Hank
While other goalies might put up similar numbers, Henrik shows up whenever you need him. During the season, he’ll have his off game, and that’s to be expected, but come playoffs, every chance he’s gotten Hank steps up. When he takes the ice, he does so with the mindset that he’s not gonna let ANYONE beat him. He can control a game from the goal. That’s not something you find in every goalie, no matter what their stat line looks like.
Are you implying that someone like Martin Biron goes into a game saying “shit, I can’t stop so-and-so”
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by George E. Ays on Sep 7, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I’m saying that I think some goalies, even very good goalies, go out and do EXACTLY what they’re supposed to. Play their angles, stick on the ice, glove up, etc. Hank has a gear that no amount of practice will give you. You can’t teach it, you can’t learn it, be be lucky to have it. That extra “something” that great players have. You’ve gotta admit, aside from an occasional regular season game, when’s the last time Lundqvist hasn’t been the best player on the ice for us, or any team he’s played for, for that matter?
by BuckarooClub on Sep 7, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he’s played with Lidstrom for Sweden, so there are certainly those games. I’m sure there were games where Gaborik was better, as I’m sure there were games with Jagr being better.
I’m not discounting the impact Hank has, I’m discounting the hyperbole and cliches. He’s an excellent goalie, definitely in the elite tier, but I wouldn’t pretend he has some mystical power. If you’ve watched Vokoun, Rinne, Ward, or Hiller play at all, you know they are every bit as capable of stealing a game as Hank is.
Heck, any NHL goalie is capable of doing it once in a while. The guys that do it often, like the guys mentioned, also happen to find themselves on top of a lot of statistics, and are described as elite. Hank is one of them, but not one of a kind.
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by George E. Ays on Sep 8, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Not arguing so much that Hank is the only one that can win a game, more that he’s not going to LOSE a game for you, when it counts. I think the guys you mentioned are pretty spot on, the point was more the seperation from guy like that, to guys like Luongo or Price, who tend to fall apart at the wrong times.
Let’s look at Varlamov, who posted a top-5 save percentage last season. Ask the average hockey fan and they’ll regurgitate something about being great vs NYR in 2009 and being terrible thereafter. Varlamov does let in soft goals and gets blown out from time to time. How he got to that high sv%, though, is by pitching a ton of 1 and 2 GA games in the interim.
I’d rather have a guy that loses you a game and then plays great with better aggregate statistics than a guy that won’t lose you a game but won’t be “great” as frequently, either (plenty of 2 and 3 GA games versus a guy who may give up 7 and then lots of 1s and 2s).
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by red army line on Sep 8, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh….the 7 followed by 1s and 2s is basically Luongo, especially in the playoffs this year. It’s good, and on the surface as good as alot of people, but it’s not good enough in a short series.
I do like the quality start metric for goalies for the reasons you’re talking about. Lundqvist was actually near the bottom this year in that department with only 55%, but his previous two years were tops in the league.
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by George E. Ays on Sep 8, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
My point about losing a game, was more about playoffs then regular season slips. Slip now and again in the regular season, no big deal, there’s 82 games. It’s more guys like Luongo, Price, or even Fleurry who get me worried. You’ve gotta be able to turn it on in the playoffs, even more as a goalie. If they can’t do it, you’re wasting your time.
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The Skinny: A lot of dead weight was trimmed away from last year’s roster and the Rangers re-signed key young players
Understand that you are not trying to be a dick.
I also hope that you understand that in no way was I referring to the loss of Derek Boogaard as “trimming dead weight”. I chose the phrase because it was very appropriate to players like Todd White, Alex Frolov, Chris Drury, etc. leaving the roster.
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My Atlantic Predictions
1. PIttsburgh – Crosby or no Crosby they are a pretty dangerous team who have more experience compared to us.
2. Rangers – If our best players play like our best players and our defense falls into place then we could be a great team.
3. Philly – They aren’t as much of a contender now, but watch out in a few years…they just gotta do something about their defense.
4. Islanders – Very young but good group of forwards, decent defense, could be the surprise team this year I think… unfortunately.
5. Devils – Besides Parise, Kovy, and Zajac, I don’t see them scoring many goals. Lots of pressure on their defense and an older Brodeur.
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Good Break Down, Dig
My Picks
1. Pittsburgh – This burns my soul to type, but you’ve got to give credit where due. These guys lost 2 of the 10 best players IN THE WORLD, and picked up steam. There’s nothing I hate more the Cindy Crysby (except maybe his fans) but I think these guys are the team to beat in the Atlantic
2. Philly – I think alot of the the criticism on them in the comments has been their youth, while at the same time we give ourselves praise for our young players. You can’t have it both ways. Carter and Richards are gone, but they’ve still got perhaps the biggest swinging dick in hockey the last 20 years in Chris Pronger. I think he’ll fill the leadership roll nicely, and while Jagr might not be the player he was, I think he’s still got some big goals in his stick that will help this team get over the hump. The questions about Bryz and his contract aren’t going to be answered until game 83 at the earliest, so in the meantime I think Flyers will stay in contention for the top of the Atlantic, if not the top of the East.
3/4 Rangers/Devs – I think the Devils we are going to see are going to be the ones who came charging in the second half, not the ones who slept in the gate to open the season. Third in the Atlantic is gonna be huge, since I really don’t see 4 teams from our division making the playoffs. It’s gonna be neck and neck all season between us and the Devs, if we flinch they could come right past us.
5. Isles – they still suck.
Predictions
1. Pens
This is still heavily contingent on the health and productivity of Crosby and Malkin. As much as they deserved a lot of praise for remaining very competitive in the 2nd half of last season without their 2 superstars they did so at a pace that was not sustainable over the course of a full season. Their goal scoring obviously took a hit, nearly to the tune of a full goal per game (strictly counting goals scored in regulation and OT) after game 41 vs Tampa. Their regulation/OT goal differential was negative in the 2nd half. MA Fleury also posted his best GAA by a healthy margin when playing as many games as he did (this discounts his season 07-08 where he posted a similar GAA while only playing in 35 games). They can certainly be the team that went on a tear through the first 40 games of last year, however that will be more difficult to do with either 87 or 71 at diminished capacity.
2. Flyers
I’m not ringing the death bell on the Flyers just yet. They’re still deep up front and a healthy Pronger gives them a very competent blueline. The jury is still out on whether Bryzgalov will be the goalie that can carry the huge burden of expectations that have weighed down Philly in years past. However I’m not a huge believer in the concept of some players not being built for the bright spotlight of a big time city. It’s impossible to know whether he can or can’t hold up under the pressure, since through no fault of his own he’s only played in non-traditional markets. He’ll have a better team in front of him than he’s had in Phoenix while playing in an easier conference.
3. Rangers
I think we all need to remember that the Rangers overachieved last year just by making the playoffs. We could very well see some regression from a few players that seemed to take big step forwards. And there were some players, specifically Brian Boyle that rapidly cooled off as the season wore on. Obviously getting 09-10 Gaborik back and having Richards put up a comparable season to his last 2 with Dallas will help offset any regression. I’m not as concerned about the defense and goaltending.
4. Devils
A team that played at such extremes last year. No structure and poor defense under MacLean and then a team that won by the skin of its teeth on a nightly basis after Lemaire was reinstated. The revolving door of coaches continues with a random mix of a supporting cast that at the very least is getting younger. Having a healthy Parise should boost an anemic offense, but being without Zajac for the early portion of the season will hurt an already thin center ice. On top of that they have what looks to be a very unheralded and fairly raw blueline that I don’t believe stacks up favorably to most of the other Atlantic teams.
5. Islanders
A healthy Streit and Okposo and not too much regression from Grabner and I think the Isles are poised to become one of the better scoring teams in the league. Tavares is growing more rapidly than I initially envisioned. The problem will be how many goals can they keep out of their net?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Sep 6, 2011 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Really to play devil’s advocate, but how does one miserable fail of a year automatically put the Devils on the fringe? In 09-10 they won the division, and were a playoff team for years before that.
I’m a devils fan, just to make that clear, but I can see the Atlantic sending 4 teams to the playoffs. Losing Zajac hurts for the time being, but look how Lemaire reinvigorated a Parise-less team last year. I’m in no way saying it’s a sure thing for the Devils to play in the postseason as it seemingly was two years ago, but they’re definitely closer to the last season explosion than the fails under Maclean.
by skly27 on Sep 6, 2011 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
How much does Brodeur have left in the tank? Is the defense good enough? Will Parise regain his form? Can they withstand the loss of Zajac early? How well can the bottom 6 perform? Can DeBoer continue the magic that Lemaire created?
The Devils, like many teams that aren’t WSH and BOS, have as many question marks as anyone else. I don’t think anyone thinks the Devs are a 60 point team, but even if the Devs are a 90 point team, that doesn’t mean they won’t be on the fringe this year.
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by George E. Ays on Sep 6, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
They had 51% Corsi (tied) under Maclean and 55+% under Lemaire (or thereabouts). So I think they’re playoff-caliber. The tough division is yet another question mark, though.
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by red army line on Sep 6, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they’re playoff caliber also. That doesn’t mean they’ll make the playoffs, however.
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by George E. Ays on Sep 6, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
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