Why The Rangers Won't Be the Next Wild
Shooting trends for this team have become quite the heated topic lately. Previous posts from Rob L. have painted the picture of a team playing above it's skill level. My last post on the topic showed a team still a bit too reliant on its goaltending. Even some of the advanced stat guys are starting to make some noise about the Rangers, like Rob Vollman did with this tweet several days ago:
Now that Minnesota has plunged as us fancy-stats guys predicted maybe you'll pay attention to this: the NY Rangers are next.
If you're wondering about those past predictions, you can find stories here, and here, among other places. Like the '09 Avalanche, and '10 Stars before them, the '11 Wild are a poor possession team riding hot goaltending to a fast start, and then the bottom fell out. Not suprisingly, those fans all brought up similar counter arguments before the collapses. 'We have a system." "You can't measure a team's heart." "We limit shot quality." "Stats don't capture everything." If you've been reading the comments here lately, you've seen similar counter arguments. So why are we different? We're a better team, and I'm going to show you why.
The standard go to arguments against sustained success point to two things, Fenwick with the score Tied, and PDO. For refreshers on both: Fenwick is simply the ratio of even strength shots directed at the net for a team compared to its opponents. PDO is the total of even strength save percentage and even strength shooting percentage. For this article, in both cases, I will be using the stats under 'close' conditions. That is defined as any 1-goal game state during the first two periods, and tied game states in the 3rd. While this actually paints a darker picture for the Rangers compared to Fenwick tied, it helps expand the sample size, which is important when looking at only a half-season's worth of data.
After the jump, a comparison of all 4 teams.
Before we get 'advanced', let's look at the basic:By this point of the season, the Rangers already show some separation from the previous three teams, who were all at 48 points (61.5%) at this stage. Still, just 10 games ago the Wild were on a similar place before their swan dive, so their current standing is not something that can be relied on too heavily. It's been shown by Rob Vollman that points isn't as good a predictor as goals or shots, so let's look at those.
As the title implies, this is a rolling 10 game average of close game Fenwick, so the 10 on the x-axis is for games 1-10, 15 for 6-15, and so on. The data comes from timeonice.com, and thus includes all even strength situations, including 4v4. It mostly looks a mash up of lines, but you can see clear separation starting at game 25 or so. Coinciding roughly with the call up of possession dynamo Carl Hagelin, the Rangers have been consistently above 50% for some time now, reaching as high as 54%. That is something that none of the previous "regressionist specials" can claim, aside from an early season stretch for the Stars. Over the course of a full season, the 54% the Rangers recently hit would put them right with the elite possession teams in the league, like the Red Wings and Bruins. That link shows us full season data, so let's look at that as well:
Once again, there's clear separation from the previous teams and this one. For the first 10 games, the Rangers were the poorest team by a good margin, playing at a rate that would've been the second worst in the last five seasons. Since that time, the team has steadily climbed to 49%, which would still them in the bottom third of the league, but markedly improved from the 43% they came back from Europe with. (The link above has the Rangers at 48%, because Behind the Net's data is strictly 5v5). 48-49% still shouldn't be good enough to have one of the best 5v5 goal ratios in the league, but that's where PDO comes in.
Same as above, this is a 10 game rolling average of PDO in close situations. This chart is really more for continuity with the Fenwick charts than to draw conclusions. A 10 game sample is too small to gain anything meaningful, as the puck bounces funny for everyone. Instead, let's look at the cumulative results:
This looks a lot less jumbled, and also reasonably favorable for the Rangers. The Avalanche were on another planet when it came to running well, so they're not really a true comparable. The other teams were at similar points at this stage of the season, posting a PDO of about 102. That number is no worse than Detroit (103.6), SJ (102.2) or Boston (102.0) has posted in similar situations, but because their possession numbers are good, no one worries about their PDO dropping. Like the Stars before them, the Rangers already hit one lull, but they survived it because they already started controlling play the way a top team should.
Of course, this isn't about what has happened as much as what will happen, so let's look at the cumulative charts again, this time with the Avalanche and Stars full season data:
The two teams prior actually improved their possession down the stretch, but could not outrun the inevitability that is PDO. Thus while they didn't lose any momentum, they could not improve a points pace that ultimately either barely squeaked them in the playoffs (Avs) or resulted in a lost season (Stars)
Summing it up, there's little reason to think that this Rangers team will end up the 95 point teams that the Avalanche and Stars became, and Wild are on pace to join. However, that does not mean this will end up being the 115 point team they are on pace to be either. In that regard, the Rangers are likely due to come back to earth a little bit as their PDO stabilizes. There will be a downturn this season, whether it comes from their Fenwick taking a hit again, shots not finding the back of the net any more, or just that Henrik Lundqvist and especially Martin Biron start to have a few bounces go against them. Still, as long as things stay as they've been in the "Hagelin Era" of New York Rangers hockey, there's no reason this team can't stay among the leaders of the East. After all, in what is really the handbook for advanced stats, VUKOTA predicted the Rangers to be the 4th best team in the NHL. Who are we to argue? (Even if they had Buffalo ahead of us).
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Outstanding stuff, as usual.
. For the first 10 games, the Rangers were the poorest team by a good margin, playing at a rate that would’ve been the second worst in the last five seasons. Since that time, the team has steadily climbed to 49%, which would still them in the bottom third of the league, but markedly improved from the 43% they came back from Europe with.
It seems like the NYR’s first 10 games were truly horrific, cause they seem to be holding them down, even though the #s have been markedly better since games 17-18 or so.
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It seems like the NYR’s first 10 games were truly horrific, cause they seem to be holding them down, even though the #s have been markedly better since games 17-18 or so.
Exactly why I wanted to write something like this. I got tired of pointing out a lot of this across the blogosphere. Now I can just link it.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, as I said below, this isn’t supposed to be a “Hey Rob, you’re wrong!” post, he’s certainly not the only person who has looked at our season numbers and said “yeah, they’re not that good.” I’m sure he’ll see it one way or another though.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
So what do you guys chalk that up to? I’d guess the Europe trip, but the other three teams don’t seem to have similar patterns (unless it’s still ruining the Ducks’ season). I know it’s hard to put a finger on this stuff, but curious about your guesses.
I suspect the travel played a big part, but it doesn’t explain the two home clunkers to start the year. I think there were some matchup issues as well. Gaborik-BR together was a nightmare for preventing shots, Anisimov spent time on the 4th line and he’s one of our best at doing so, etc…
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by George E. Ays on Jan 11, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Please
We are not going to drop like the Wild. We are amont the leagues most talented teams and anybody who says otherwise is in denial
by Guess Who's Back? on Jan 10, 2012 1:28 PM EST reply actions
Looking at our top 9 forwards
We stack up quite well with top 10 teams in the league.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jan 10, 2012 2:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s worth noting the Wild fans kept saying they won’t drop like Stars or Avs too.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Stack their top 9 against ours
Is it really even worth comparing?
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jan 10, 2012 2:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Stars maybe. Not the other two.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Stars were riddled with injuries after that fast start, they lost goligoski, and that is a big absence on the blue line, not to mention lehtonen their goaltender… Since those 2 have returned to the lineup it seems they have righted the ship…
@clalicata17
This was last year’s Stars, not this year’s.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m tryin’ to think but nothin’ happens.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jan 10, 2012 1:38 PM EST reply actions
Nyuk, Nyuk
I remember when hockey was fun (i.e., not math).
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Jan 10, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
So Glad
I’m not the only one remembers them good ol’ days
by MasterOfPuppets on Jan 10, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
They may rely on hot goaltending
but unlike these other teams relying on hot goaltending, Lundqvist is one you can rely on for the entire season. This is nothing new for him. And I think this stat stuff is skewed by a terrible start to the season. They’ve been getting better each week.
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I don’t trust stats in sports and neither should any of you. They amount to logical syllogisms that produce could’s and should’s not will’s and will not’s. You can’t measure heart or the will to win. Math can’t predict that. When I see the Rangers out on the ice campared to seasons past I see a fire that just wasn’t there before. That’s all the “stats” I need to know that the Rangers aren’t going to be the next Wild.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Jan 10, 2012 1:48 PM EST reply actions
I agree to an extent, but you must consider the fact that ‘heart’ kind of does get measured in some of these stats, like Fenwick, because when you’re are working harder (than the other team) you are bound put more pucks on net and limit chances.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Jan 10, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Thats a bit of a syllogism in itself:
Working hard -→ bound to put more pucks on net.
Working hard may very well be a necessary cause, but it is not a sufficient cause for getting pucks on net. Heart does not translate to any number you or I could come up with.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Jan 10, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Just to be clear the arrow between working hard and bound to put more pucks on net deems the “if, then” statement in sentential logic.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Jan 10, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Nor can heart be proven. We think this team has a lot of heart, but how do you know for sure they have more heart than, say, the Maple Leafs?
All of the three teams there mentioned had ‘heart’ brought up among their fanbases often. Did they stop caring?
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
To add..I’m not denying that work ethic and other such intangibles exist and help separate players/team at this level. I’m not buying that a shitty team can will its way to victory though. As the previous teams showed, you can’t outrun your skill level forever.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. I had a previous comment about necessary and sufficient causes and this applies to your post. having the will to victory is necessary but is not a sufficient cause for success in the NHL.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Jan 10, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
For my tastes, the existence of “heart” is axiomatic. Perhaps the word heart isn’t correct, but the will of the underdog, the courage to push through adversity, the ability to dig down to reach that extra gear… it’s a characteristic of a quality human being that shouldn’t be bound by the needs of proof. Therefore, I used the word axiomatic.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Jan 10, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
well
That was quick
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by Kevin Power on Jan 10, 2012 2:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Well, somebody has to say it.
"There are lies, damned lies and statistics." – Mark Twain
I'll counter with
“Numbers never lie, they just don’t agree with you” George E. Ayes
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Jan 10, 2012 2:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's funny
Talk about bringing a knife to a gunfight. ;)
You quote me and don’t even spell my damn name right?
Somewhat related, I thought about making my twitter handle “No H no E”
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
both are just witty quotes that prove nothing. My distrust of statistics is parallel to my distrust of why I feel there is some “fire” that I see that makes the Rangers not the next wild. My point is, I would sooner trust my heart(feelings) than my head(math).
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Jan 10, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed.
Also, that quote has been misinterpreted almost as long as it has been around. (I’ll be damned if I can find the link right now on how, I’m working on it)
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
http://oilersnation.com/2011/11/17/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics
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by Blueshirt in Paris on Jan 10, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
people like me? you assume far to much.
by OhCallyMyCaptain on Jan 10, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Tell my friend Rob Vollman to kiss my Big Rangers Blueshirt (|)
by NYR #35 Richter on Jan 10, 2012 2:01 PM EST reply actions
To be fair, I think he wasn’t aware of how the Rangers have improved, and I think he changed his tune once he became aware.
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by red army line on Jan 10, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it wasn’t necessarily to pick on Rob, he definitely wasn’t the first to point it out. His was the most concise and the final realization that I needed to put all the data together in one spot for reference.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I could have called you Jim
Would that make you feel better
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Jan 10, 2012 2:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m not sure how to take that.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jan 10, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
nice post on BBV
Almost forgot you were there haha
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by Tripodi on Jan 10, 2012 5:07 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
while I do think the Rangers are due for some regression
I do not think that their fall will be as precipitous as the Aves, Stars, or Wild simply because the rangers are a more talented team and are built to withstand a slip in their play better than the other three teams that I mentioned
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Jan 10, 2012 2:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
100-103 points is where most of us predicted
Good enough for 4th seed. Everything seams to be pointing that way.
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jan 10, 2012 2:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
agreed
I dont think anyone predicted 1st overall (and if you say you did then you’re a flat out liar). Im pleasantly surprised to see the team play this will but I also know that they are playing above themselves a bit and will fall two or three spots
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Jan 10, 2012 2:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Looking at last years point totals, we shouldn't be biting nails in early April
1 z -Washington 48 23 11 107
2 y -Philadelphia 47 23 12 106
3 y – Boston 82 46 25 11 103
4 x -Pittsburgh 49 25 8 106
5 x – Tampa Bay 46 25 11 103
6 x – Montreal 44 30 8 96
7 x – Buffalo 43 29 10 96
8 x – NY Rangers 44 33 5 93
by Gabby the Gutless Sniper on Jan 10, 2012 2:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lovely. I find most of your work easy to follow despite the complex nature of the subject.
Could you give us the broad-strokes on where other teams in the East are trending towards, especially other Atlantic teams?
The charts won’t be identical, but you can see the general trends here: http://behindthenet.ca/NYR_2011.html#data
Just change the team in the drop down bar up top.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Great stuff as usual George, very well presented. When I grow up I wanna post like you.
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by Blueshirt in Paris on Jan 10, 2012 2:42 PM EST reply actions
Great stuff George. You’re going to have to walk me through how to create these graphs.
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The only stats I need are the Wins in the win column and the points we have… they say were are the top team in the league, and that is what we are… where the play falls has no difference because shit happens… injuries happen… also remember the western conference was off to a generally slow start conference wide…
@clalicata17
The only stats I need are the Wins in the win column and the points we have, they say were are the top team in the league
I should’ve included that one in the story. That was another common one from those fans.
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by George E. Ays on Jan 10, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Im sure Bills fans felt the same way 6 weeks into the season, the focus of the stats are sustainability in the future.
by Zuppa Di Pesce on Jan 10, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent post
While I appreciate statistical analysis, sometimes those doing it get a little too ful of themselves. Will the Rangers regress over the 2nd half of the year? To some extent probably, that could be said for any team leading the conference over the 1st half in any year. But will their PDO go down to 100 over the 2nd half? Anything’s possible, but this is unlikely.
Lundqvist has proven over many years that he is a consistently excellent goalie who puts up better than average save percentages. And Biron’s at worst an average goalie (and if his play is less than that he’ll see very little action). So why would any supposed intelligent “analyst” presume that the Rangers’ save percentage is all (or even almost all) luck and will be (close to) average the rest of the year? The Rangers may post a lower saves percentage than over the 1st half, but it will almost certainly be better than average.
Similar with the shooting percentage. Gaborik has proven over many years that he can put up above average shooting percentages. And he takes about 1 in 8 of the Rangers shots. He is shooting above his career average so far this year – although still below his career high – so there may be some regression there, but not to a league average level. The Rangers also have other key forwards shooting above their career averages in Callahan and Richards, but Dubinsky, Boyle and Prust are well below, while Stepan is slightly below (in an admittedly small sample size) and AA is right on his career average. So while there may be some regression, they should be able to maintain at least a slightly above average shooting percentage.
And above average goaltending with an even slighty above average (or even average) shooting percentage translates to an above average PDO the rest of the way.
Well done George
It’ll be fun to see if Hank can sustain this Thomas-esque pace he’es putting up, thats my only concern as of late. He’s a .920 goalie, sure, but a .940? Elite amongst Elite.
the difference between .920 and .940
is usually not in the hands of the keeper.
it’s the responsibility of the d-men and forwards keeping the goalies sight lines clear.
by MasterOfPuppets on Jan 10, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Lundqvist "Thomas-esque"?
Please…..not only is Henrik in a class by himself, a stat guy like yourself should know that Thomas’ dominance arrived late in his career, and even some of his good seasons were followed up by relatively mediocre ones. Hank’s consistency from year-to-year in his career is something that even Tim Thomas would envy.
Prole art threat.
by greifi griffie on Jan 10, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Not exactly
Thomas’s “down” years are more or less in line with what Lundqvist has done over his career, but this is Lundqvist’s first time in the 930 Club. For Thomas it’s his third go-round.
If we can keep scoring, Hank should have no problem
I’ve said it before, but more then defense, Hank needs the offense to contribute for him to be successful. Watching him the last 2 seasons, you’d see alot of frustration when he was standing on his head, and he’d be lucky if that was enough to give him the opportunity to try to win it for us in a SO. Getting some goals give him some breathing room, and also lets him know his huge efforts aren’t going to waste. Gotta be huge motivation, but the O has to keep producing. Love to see Slats land us one more scorer or a D who’s good with the puck between to know and the deadline to make sure the team can give Hank the help he needs to take us far.
by BuckarooClub on Jan 10, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
So what you're saying is that we're invincible...?
Okay, good enough for me. Plan the parade.
Great stuff as always George
I love the stats that show where we are as compared to where we should be.
One question though on PDO. If a team has an outstanding goaltender (as we do) shouldn’t PDO consistently be above 1? If you’re taking the average of a team’s 2 or 3 goalies’ save %, the team with higher skilled goalies will have a better number on that side, whereas taking the average of 18-20 skaters shooting % will limit the highly skilled players impact on the overall team shooting %. No? Maybe its just how high above 1 is sustainable and how much is good bounces?
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Yes. Rangers are closer to a 1010 team (that’s a 925 ESsv%).
It is hard, however, to consistently be good as a goalie, season to season. As of now only one goalie has posted .919 or better every season he’s played in since the lockout (Vokoun and Hiller) and both those streaks will likely be done after this season.
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by red army line on Jan 11, 2012 3:33 AM EST up reply actions

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