NHL Trade Deadline: Who Do You Want At The Deadline?
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 18, 2012 12:00 PM EST
in New York Rangers Analysis
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With the NHL trade deadline rapidly approaching we've talked about Rick Nash about the potential opportunity for him to get traded to the New York Rangers.
But enough about Nash (maybe) for right now. The main question I want to ask all of you guys on this lazy Saturday is which player do you think the Rangers should target at the deadline? You could even generalize the answer with what the Rangers need to address at the deadline.
Maybe you think the Rangers need some help on the power play. Maybe you think the Rangers just need more offense or a huge shot from the point. Maybe just a veteran presence for the team?
You don't necessarily need to go into details about what it will cost (although take that into consideration when naming guys like Shea Weber and Nash), but keep in mind which players are elite and which won't be too expensive.
So go ahead guys, the floor is yours.
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Jeff Carter
PROS:
-manageable cap hit
-on average extending scoring rate to 82 games every season: 31 G 21ish A per year average in NHL.
-has the ability to backcheck/not purely offensively minded like gabby
-believe torts can mold him
-believe he would really have it in for Philly for fleecing him
-big market city, believe hes got the motivation to succeed here
-younger than Nash, lol
CONS
-absurdly long contract
-risk of injury history with shoulder problems
-possible he doesn’t get along with torts
-which in turn would mean he probably doesn’t get any chemistry with anybody on the team because hes sitting on the bench
the way i see it is if we get him he might not have a stellar time down the stretch this year, but once he gets acclimated to his new team, heals his shoulder over the summer and gets to have more time with torts molding him into a player the rangers need i think he could be just what we want, another goal scorer with gabby # ‘s potential while not being a liability defensively. Don’t get me wrong Gabby is much better than he was when he first came to us when it comes to backchecking/play away from the puck and defensive structure, but he is definitely no Sergei Federov….
forgot some PROs
PROS [additional]:
-Will be much cheaper than face of the franchise “Rick Nash”
-can play Center and Wing
by rain-g-errs on Feb 18, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Much longer contract and bad team guy possible locker room problem. Sulked mightily all year long, selfish.
Would rather have Nash. If not would like Ray Whitney Or Selanne but he won’t leave
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
You would be pissed too if the Flyers did that to you, basically telling you that you will be in Philly for the next 10 years and then trading you immediately after to a team in almost the middle of no where [compared to NY & Philly] who is arguably the worst team in the league.
Ask yourself this question though.
1. If you are brought from a team in last place to a team in first place [east] 2nd overall in the NHL with a chance to win your first cup and a city that has it all, [Carter’s type of lifestyle], would you be sulking? or would you work your ass off to stay there?
It’s not just that there’s a sorts of stuff about him being a bad teammate drinking lol let rooms fractures possible drug use as well. And his deal is longer than Nash. I don’t want him. Part of the reason he was traded is be ause the flyers did t trust him and questioned his leadership and dedication otherwise why trade him??
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ohh I forgot you spend all that time in the Flyers locker room and with Holmgren. That’s why you know he is locker room cancer and the reasons why he was traded. Thanks for the insider insight!
People believe what the want to believe.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Good to know that you are his best friend in the locker room.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
And that speak to his work ethic!!!!! So he got traded, deal with it and perform. He decided not to. You want that guy??? I don’t
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
He also got injured.
Rick Nash is performing below his historical averages, what’s his excuse for having a dud season?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 18, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just think Nash is a better player. We can debate it all day. I would prefer Nash than have to deal with Carters baggage.
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think Nash is the better player too, all things being equal, but they’re not equal and that’s the stumbling block here. The prospect of getting him solely for his talent is enticing, I won’t deny that. But there’s a lot that comes with his talent that I’m not convinced the trade for him will be an overall positive for the Rangers both this season and the half dozen more they’d have to commit to him.
On a related note, thanks to the free Center Ice preview I was just watching some the Hawks vs Jackets. The Jackets could improve their team simply by playing a replacement level goalie instead of Mason. Time to cut bait Jackets, if Mason isn’t the worst goalie in the league then I don’t know who is.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 18, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Averages below are extended averages, assuming the production rate of the season extended to 82 games played, ie if you scored 32 goals in 41 games, in 82 games you would expect to score 64 goals.
Stats below reflect up to and including the 2010-2011 Season. [Excluding Playoffs]
======
Rick Nash
Career NHL Average [Goals]: 36
Career NHL Average [Asissts]: 31
Combined: 67 Points
Jeff Carter
Career NHL Average [Goals]: 31
Career NHL Average [Asissts]: 29
Combined: 60 Points
I agree Nash is a better player, but the numbers show the relative improvement. Nash is a better player by 7 points on the season on average with their play in the NHL.
I can tell you one thing though, Nash is not worth the price it takes to get him, when you could get Carter for much cheaper. I am talking cap hit and the assets we would have to give up to acquire them at the deadline.
Carter played on good teams bash played on poopy teams
by Sportsfan21 2 10 on Feb 18, 2012 4:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And historically that makes no difference in terms of production. There have been numerous posts on this site proving that.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Uh, where are those posts?
The ones I saw talked about how you would not see a significant increase in his goals just by switching teams. Combination of available shots + sh% + on the downside of his scoring curve. Those I agree with.
But are you really saying that there is historical proof that a players production is NOT influenced by the talent or lack thereof around him?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think that players with better players around them should do better, but on a better team they will probably play less minutes as well. For whatever reasons, the production doesn’t increase.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
It has to do more with when players get traded I would assume. If they are on their downside when they are traded they will still be once they are traded.
But trying to compare the historical PPG of two players has to have the caveat of their quality of teammates.
You cant tell me if Kurri playing with Gretzky didn’t help Kurri’s numbers. Or Hull playing with Oates, etc…
Bottom line, Carter or Nash will be playing with the same players here so we should expect the similar contributions with regard to the quality of teammates.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 20, 2012 4:39 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think anyone would debate that, but he’s not 50% better, though he has a 50% bigger cap hit
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Another question, would you rather have Nash over Gabby or Carter over Gabby 2 years from now?
To me that is the way to look at it. Gabby wont be resigned at his same rate by us so he might walk. Then you would be left with either Nash of Carter.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 5:28 AM EST up reply actions
2 years from now? Given the option I’d rather pay whatever Gabby requires; followed by having Carter’s contract and then Nash.
Im not sure you understood my question.
No way you pay Gabby at 33 $7mil. If you did then why the hell would you not pay the same for Nash at 27?
In all likelihood, unless he takes a home-team discount, Gabby will walk. So you will be left with either Nash or Cater if you make one of those trades.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
And the extra cap space AND the assets we would save by trading for Carter over Nash.
Let’s say Nash is: Dubi, MDZ, 1st, Thomas
Let’s say Carter is: Dubi, Thomas, 3rd.
So there’s MDZ and a first round pick as extra assets. Assuming Gabby retires, would you rather have:
Nash OR
Carter, MDZ, 1st, and extra cap space.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Well not so sure on how much cap space you have since you still have to pay MDZ plus you still need to figure out how to deal with the logjam at LD. The more accurate description would be…
Nash, Erixon
or
Carter, MDZ, 1st.
Frankly, I would lean towards the first. This years draft is supposed to be pretty weak when it comes to our pick, which is more like a 2nd round. Also, that 1st will not help us at all in the next 3years.
I know Carter is the better value. VW are a better value but I drive an Audi. I think Nash is a better player and brings intangible Carter doesnt. When/if Gabby goes I woud rather have Nash not Carter. The org has spent a lot of effort trying to bring in the right people with the right attitude. I think Nash fits that more.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
What intangible does Nash bring that Carter does not? Carter wins face/offs and kills penalties; Nash does neither of these things.
Exactly. It’s just pure bullshit to justify beliefs.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Not sure where you are getting Nash doesn’t kill penalties from. Besides from this year, he has had years where he has put up more TOI SH then Carter.
True, Carter takes faceoffs but its looks like he is a career 50-52%. Good, but not someone I would target just for that.
I like his game better. The way he plays. His size. Leadership. Are we really saying that two players with identical stats play the same identical game and bring the same thing to the ice?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
No I’m not saying that, but you can’t just throw out the phrase ‘intangibles’ and acts like that swings the argument towards Nash. Last year Nash had a TOI of .28/60 minutes played; while Carter had a .65/60 TOI shorthanded. Carter had 2.74/60 TOI on the power play; while Nash had a 3.33/60 TOI on the PP. So Carter spent more time killing penalties than Nash and less time on the PP while putting up basically the same offensive numbers.
And in 09-10 Nash had 2.16/60 TOI SH and Carter had 1.47/60. For the PP Nash had 3.11/60 and Carter 3.05/60. And the year before Nash had 2.13/60 TOI SH 4th on his team. And the year before 2.34/60 2nd on the team.
I cant throw out ‘intangibles’ but you can say ‘Nash doesn’t kill penalties like it’s a fact?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
He hasn’t killed penalties on the Blue Jackets since they fired Ken Hitchcock because he’s not all that good at it.
More like he didn’t want to do it and Hitchcock got canned in good part because he tried to make Nash into a complete player.
There’s plenty of rumors about Nash’s attitude and how the conflict led to Hitch getting fired even though Hitch is the only coach to get that team to a playoff berth.
Funny how you never hear about ‘those’ rumors though, just about the Carter ‘rumors.’
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So first is he doesn’t kill penalties and now it is he is not good at it. Ooook.
And not at all possible that the new coach wants him to be more rested for 5on5? Or others have stepped up who can fill that role. Adding Phalsson had not effect?
I just find it funny how the Pro-Carter cap says the Pro-Nash camp uses false logic to support their claims yet they do the same. god, its like a microcosm of US politics.
And for the record, I am neither pro nor anti Carter or Nash. They both have their pluses and minuses.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 20, 2012 4:46 AM EST up reply actions
No one is saying Carter is better than Nash.
People are saying Carter + the extra $2.3 mil we save against the cap + the extra players/prospects we would be able to keep are better than Nash.
I think that’s fair. Also, see King Henrik’s point below. More time on the PK for Carter, more time on the PP for Nash, and similar production.
If you want to look at intangibles, actually look at them.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I am going to go out on a limb here
and say Carter > Nash just like the other people are doing with the counterargument. I say this because I believe Carter is an “impact” player and Nash is a drug addict.
That’s not the right way to look at it, because you still have Erixon in the system, and he can be used to make another move.
Or MDZ can be used to make another move. That’s my point exactly.
Get the most value over all of your assets. Also, have you actually ever watched Jeff Carter play? The guy brings more intangibles than Nash.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I’d rather have a 65 point player getting paid like a 65 point player than a 70 point player getting paid like a 90.
Nash is better than Carter but he is NOT $2.6m better.
by BigB22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I get that argument, I really do.
But these aren’t stocks and bond performances will are analyzing. Can you really say that the only difference between Nash and Carter are their prices?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 5:31 AM EST up reply actions
That’s the thing Nash > Carter, for sure.
Let’s say we would have to trade Dubi, MDZ, 1st, and Thomas for Nash.
But let’s say we would have to trade Dubi, Thomas, and a 3rd for Carter.
So is…
Nash > Carter, MDZ, 1st, and $2.5 mil in cap space? I don’t think so.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
It’s flawed math since you have to pay for MDZ eventually also. If you put it on paper then sure it looks one-sided. But the game is played on ice. So on the Ice you would have Nash/Erixon or Carter/MDZ
Erixon is more cost controlled and you forgot to mention that Carters term is longer. The only reason his cap hit is that low is because of his term. The guy is making 6.5-7m per year, almost the same as Nash.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
The game is played on the ice? The same ice where Nash puts up 7 more points a year than Carter, can’t win faceoffs, and doesn’t kill penalties?
That ice? Assets are assets. If you don’t move the assets here, you can move them elsewhere for a better return.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Nash… doesn’t kill penalties?
Is this just “pure bullshit to justify beliefs” as well?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Hitchcock made him. Now that he’s gone, he doesn’t. Now to the extent Carter does.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
He has had 12 goals and 9 Assists in 36 games this year. Yes he was Injured Shoulder Issue.
If he played at that production rate all season for 82 games, he would have 27 Goals and 20 Assists, so pretty much 50 point player, that is around 4 goals below his NHL average and on pace for his assists average in the NHL.
That’s one season. If we are just looking at this season, than Nash is a 26 goal scorer. You want that for 7.8 million a year?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
was talking about Carter
I gave more in depth #s up top comparing the two :) 67 points overall for nash vs 60 for Carter they are very close.
Yeah I don’t see why some of the rationale for wanting Nash, in terms of “playing for a contender would invigorate him”, couldn’t apply to Carter. If anything Carter’s played for a contender before and might even relish the opportunity to get back onto one. For Nash it’s kind of unknown territory.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 18, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I just want one more big time forward to add to this team for the playoff run
not terribly concerned over who it is. I just think the biggest factor getting overlooked here is by having success in the playoffs you lose some players inevitably, to inflated contracts. I trust Sather in the trading market to not get sodomized, and I just think the lack of individual offensive talent can hurt us in the playoffs. That’s why I love Artie, I feel like he can take the puck and go end to end and create a goal in a flash in a playoff game, now obviously he is raw and still improving, but it’s that Jagr factor we had in 06 I believe, he scored big goals in big moments of the game. He had the size and the skill to get to the net and just make chances by himself. You see how important those type of big power forwards are in the playoffs every year, whether it be Bertuzzi, or Franzen, or Getzlaf, etc.
No doubt another impact forward would help. Just a question of how much it costs to get him.
And for every power forward that makes an impact in the playoffs there’s a Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Toews that make an impact too. The Rangers lack both those types of players and the cost of acquiring either a big power forward or elite finesse/playmaker is probably prohibitive at this point.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 18, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t do it. This is not tinkering with chemistry, it’s taking a huge risk with it. Never mind the cost of either of them.
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by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 18, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
How so? Have you seen the future?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
It could apply to Carter but Carter’s deal is longer and has off ice questions. And I think Nash is better. Just opinion. Well see what happens
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
The nash Richards and I forget the third pretty much single handily beat Russian in the last Olympics
by Sportsfan21 2 10 on Feb 18, 2012 4:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sulked mightily all year?
He was pissed earlier on because he signed a career-long contract by a cup contender and was traded without warning to the worst team in the league.
Shit I’d be pissed.
Also, ask Columbus fans. After he cam back from his injury he has been playing very well.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
why did you put rick nash in quotes
I’m pretty sure thats his real name
Dick Nash
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
lmao
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Saying Carter has an injury risk because of a shoulder injury is like saying Ryan Callahan is injury prone because he blocks shots and broke his hand and ankle last year. Carter has missed 31 games in his whole career……he is not injury prone. That said, I think acquiring him makes the best overall sense to address our scoring needs without giving up the farm, the cap hit is a sane 5.2 million and with Dubi going the other way, it nominal.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Let me clarify, I believe he is injury prone for the rest of this season, I alluded to this assumption but never explicitly said it.
I agree in that I think he is one of our best options this trade deadline.
by rain-g-errs on Feb 18, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Grabovski
He’s a 25-30 goal scorer, can play both center and wing and is a UFA at the end of the year.
My package for him would be next year’s 2nd, Wolski, and Ryan Bourque
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I think Toronto is only using him as a rental, think they want to resign him after this year. But that offer would be good for us.
by rain-g-errs on Feb 18, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Allegedly they’ve got a 2nd + prospect on the table now. Depending on the prospect, ours is better or worse
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I listened to TSN radio yesterday and from what they said, Toronto wants to resign him but he’s asking for too much money. If Burke can’t sign him until the trade deadline he may consider trading him but he wants a first round pick.
You also have to consider that Toronto is fighting for their first playoffs in god knows how many years. Not sure Burke really wants to trade a roster player in that situation.
They are holding out for a first from what I’ve read..
by rain-g-errs on Feb 18, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I would take Grabovski too but he’s bad defensively but that’s ok if he scores and good on PP
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
We need Kevin Lowe circa '93-94
Who could be the 2012 equivalent? I don’t know the western conference teams so well. We need a guy who can slide into that 3rd pair and bring some toughness/vet savvy play while not screwing us for 12-13 & beyond.
I like that offer up top, a 2nd rounder, Wolski & one of the hit or miss farm system guys; JAM/Bourque/V-tank/MZA as the bait.
Were they saying "Boo" or "Boo-urns?"
@SlayerSantana on Twitter
pavel kubina would be nice…solid vet, knows torts’ system, and expiring contract.
by brodeur hearts avery on Feb 18, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Ray Whitney
He’s got over 50 points this year, so he’s not playing poorly. I think we can get him for cheap. Plus he’s won a cup before. Also Sather and Maloney do trades for the hell of it.
PHX is making the playoffs
they are not sellers, and will not rent away one of their top performers in this situation.
NO ONE!!
Reload during the offseason. Roll with the team we have. Evaluate and address needs during the offseason based upon playoff results.
Go for FAs during the offseason without giving up valuable pieces now. Plus we have a stable of players being groomed for seasons to come
by themessiah11 on Feb 18, 2012 1:11 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
That’s also my opinion. If Sather can add a rental for the playoffs I’m fine with that but let’s see what these guys can do in the playoffs and then decide what moves need to be made.
we have seen what "these guys"
minus rich have done in the playoffs. Gotten knocked out in the first or second round every year. I love how we just assume next year will be just as good. Oh yeah, sure, Gaborik will play at a high level again even though he was garbage last year. Staal will return all the way back to form. Hank will maintain a historically high pace, not only for himself, but for goalies in general, for the rest of his career. You guys are like hoarders.
I heard we are talking to Bettman about actually
creating a second rangers team to play in the NHL. It will be made up of our 20 elite, untouchable prospects who are all going to contribute in the next 2 years, while still resigning every single current player on the roster besides Rupp and Feds. The 2 Ranger teams won’t actually play eachother, and Tortorella will coach both teams, doubling our chances of winning a cup.
Sidney Crosby will then start to convulse
and magically split in two, with the shittier part of him concussions galore staying on his former team the Pittsburgh Penguins while the 2nd part of him with all the skill will join us concussion free
You’re a million miles off. Last year “these guys” were fighting to get into the play offs and made the 8th seed on the last day. This year they have been 1st in the East since Jan. It’s chalk & cheese. Our identity is solidified, they have gelled better, Hank is better, scoring is up and confidence is up.
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 5:45 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
You know, no one comes into the NHL with Stanley Cup playoff experience.
How about we give em a shot before we say that can’t do it considering that they are all a year older.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
We should be looking to add a right D since I highly doubt Sauer is coming back.
I saw TSN list Bryan Allen as possibly available and they mentioned him as a RD but he shoot left. I assume he can play both sides? Thoughts on him?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 18, 2012 1:33 PM EST reply actions
Too Old
In this day and age I’d never trade for a journeyman player over the age of 30.
The only players I’d trade for are Bobby Ryan, Parise (Lou would NEVER, EVER, EVER trade with the Rangers so that ain’t happening) or Shea Weber.
Your not getting any of those guys. Set the sights lower, Whitney Grabovski Hejduk someone like that with expiring deal
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, set your sights lower to Nash.
But pay the same amount!
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
He is only 31 and he is a rental.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 18, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Pass he really doesn’t make us better imo
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
So you think he is worse than Eminger, Bickle and Woywitka?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 18, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Give me Teemu Selanne
A rental that should come fairly cheap, he’s still playing at a high level, a proven winner and the best part he isn’t going to cost any players, and could probably be had for a 3rd.
My photography blog...check it out and tell me what you think.
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Would him he’s said he doesnt want to leave a d the ducks are playing better so he’s doubtful
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Anaheim is 13th in the west
They won’t be going to the playoffs, he’s out of a contract, this is most likely his last shot.
My photography blog...check it out and tell me what you think.
Life Through My Lens
I don’t disagree but he’s said he doesnt want to leave a d he has a no trade clause it’s unlikely
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
There is Zero chance Selanne is traded, he’s gonna finish his career as a Duck like it should be
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Feb 18, 2012 3:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Have you seen the ducks lately
I personally believe they will make the playoffs, but yeah either way Selanne wouldn’t be going anywhere IMO.
Personally I would've only gone with 10 'ha's but to each his own.
by KingHenrik on Feb 18, 2012 4:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Seems a bit much, no?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
as nice as it would be
ducks have already said they aren’t trading selanne or koivu. everyone else is possible.
by brodeur hearts avery on Feb 18, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Don't trade for anyone.
Just fire Sullivan and get a real PP coach
by Section 336 on Feb 18, 2012 2:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
So how do we solve the need of getting another scorer?
We HAVE to trade for a scorer. Have to. Either Teemu, Whitney, or a longer term solution like Carter. We can’t stand pat. This is the year to go after the Cup with how well the team is playing. Now, you don’t blow the team up for a scorer. But we could easily stand to move some prospects and picks for one.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
we don’t HAVE to trade for another scorer, just make sure that our defensively capable players are playing capable defense. If we shore up even more in font of Hank, he could drop down to an abysmal 0.935-0.930 and we’d still be giving up fewer goals than anyone in the league. You play to your strengths
Take it to the net and keep jamming and jamming until somebody comes on you.
- Eddie Olczyk
by Scratch and Snif on Feb 18, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
That's simply not true.
We have to trade for another scorer. It’s a must. The single thing this team needs to do is get another scorer on the team. To say they don’t have to is laughable, really.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
The bruins have almost no designated scorers. Horton is a scoring power forward, Bergeron and Seguin are all around setup men. I can’t pick out anyone on their team that I’d expect (seguin’s unexpected) to record a point per game like we would gabby or, to some extent Richards, and yet they still got it done.
If you match it up player for player, we probably have higher scorers than they do, so I don’t quite see how its “laughable really”
Take it to the net and keep jamming and jamming until somebody comes on you.
- Eddie Olczyk
by Scratch and Snif on Feb 19, 2012 3:45 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, because the Bruins won with so many “big name” scorers.
Our team plays a defense-heavy style and is still 12th in the league in goals for.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Via SNYRangersblog.com
According to Tim Panaccio of CSN Philly, The Flyers are listening to Columbus about a deal for Rick Nash.
Columbus GM Scott Howson is at the Flyers game for the second straight Saturday and is being joined by associate Craig Patrick.
The Flyers are believed to still be searching for defense and Panaccio thinks that the players wanted by Columbus would be a combination of Braydenn Schenn, Sean Couturier, James vanRiemsdyk and Sergei Bobrobsky.
Do it, Philly!
Howson: Hi Flyers, we want some of the players back that we never should have traded to you in the first place
Holmgren:
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 18, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
No chance Philly does that…not with Bryzgalov being as much of a headcase this year they aren’t trading Bobrovsky
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Feb 18, 2012 3:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would love Philly to trade for Nash
and get fleeced by Columbus, it would feel so good
The only thing that would top that
is Nash getting a season ending injury the day after the trades completed
I would really like to land Jeff Carter.
He won’t cost much. His cap hit is very low for a player of his caliber. He’d thrive back in a big city. Torts and the boys would keep him in line unlike that shit show up in Columbus. We need a goalscorer. Jeff Carter is the definition of a goal scorer. Move him to wing next to Richards and we’d see some magic.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
Have to agree. If we’re making a move for any long term player, Carter should be the target.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know you love Carter but I disagree. He could be Theo Fleury off the ice in nyc
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Same stuff around Carter is the word. Obviously it’s hearsay but if Carter is so great and he’s a good teammate he would still be in Philly. I’m just saying
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
That’s horseshit and you know it. Nobody signs a guy to a 10-year contract if he’s got issues like that at all and then hopes to get a team to take him. Spare me.
Blueshirt Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
yes I always love your reasoning
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 18, 2012 6:58 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It’s been beaten to death like everything else around here. Yet every trade post the same things keep popping up.
Blueshirt Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
Yes, let’s go by heresay.
Fuck production, cap hit, and numbers. Let’s build a team off of rumors.
GTFO
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
You make a lot of assumptions about that. The NYR locker room and Torts are not the same as Philly locker room and management. You just can’t pretend to know that there would be issues. Maybe Fleury wouldn’t have come off the uhhh.. rails, under Torts.
Meanwhile, during the supposed “issues” at Philly, which I think are WAY overblown, Carter was putting up 35/30 pt seasons.
Don’t the Flyers seemingly always have lockerroom or player/management issues?
Their coach calling them chokers in the Cup finals in 97
Lindros and his dad feuding with Clarke about the Flyers doctors
The current goaltending fiasco they find themselves in
I’m beginning to think the issue is as much their management as it is their players.
And if we’re speculating about their lockerroom, Lavi looks like a pain in the ass to deal with at times given how he was portrayed in 24/7.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 18, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
So I’m making assumptions but your not? The issues are way overblown? You know that?? The point is they traded a highly skilled young player who could’ve been there for years to come. Now that same player is throwing a tantrum in his new home. Why else would Philly trade him??? Where there’s smoke there is fire
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Your assumptions are based off of TMZ.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I don’t love Carter, but given need and cap hit, he’s the best option.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
IMO he’s Only better in relation to the cap. I think we’re too focused on cap alone. Nash is the better player and is a captain and by all intents a model citizen. Let’s see what happens
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Again, Nash is better, but you’re paying a $2.6m premium for a couple of goals a season, and if you read around, Nash isn’t without criticism off the ice.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Isnt Carter’s deal 4 years longer than Nash? Would rather may more for less years
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Those 4 years are exactly why I don’t love Carter.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Sather is a wizard at burying contracts. The contract length doesn’t worry me at all. The last 3 years his actual salary drops to $2-3m, easy enough.
you’re assuming that under the next CBA it will be as easy to bury contracts. That’s not a definite.
Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.
http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo
http://twitter.com/PopsTwitTar
And...
It is not definite that there wont be a singular buyout amnesty. A make it all disappear contract, as long as the player gets paid.
by Eastversewest on Feb 18, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
What we would have to give up in terms of roster players prospects and picks is also important when it comes to comparing trading for Nash vs trading for Carter.
Columbus don’t like Carter, they have no reason to.
Columbus love Nash, he is the face of the franchise. You will have to overpay to get him.
dude you kidding me, they laughed in our face when we offered Dubi, Kreider and a 1st.
telling us they want McDonagh and Stepan/Hagelin in addition maybe replacing the first.
It’s all hearsay I dOnt know not does anyone else know what’s been discussed its all speculation
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
come on man be reasonable, Nash is the reason the majority of columbus fans go to watch the games, he is the equivalent of Hank to us.
If we said Hank could be on the trading block, you better damn well believe we want a lot in return for him, but thankfully well never trade hank :)
All I’m saying is I don’t know. No one knows what has or hasn’t been offered. Plus we got mcdonagh for a bad contract and a bag of picks so nothing is impossible
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
We haven’t “offered” anything at all, there has been talk, and mention of names that would get it done, and that’s it. We did not make an offer of Dubi, Kreider, and a 1st and have it turned down man…
It's debatable that Nash is better.
VERY debatable.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
Extended Stats Below, assuming player plays 82 games every season
Stats below reflect up to and including the 2010-2011 Season. [Excluding Playoffs]
=============
Per Season Stats
=======
Rick Nash
Career NHL Average [Goals]: 36
Career NHL Average [Asissts]: 31
Combined: 67 Points
Jeff Carter
Career NHL Average [Goals]: 31
Career NHL Average [Asissts]: 29
Combined: 60 Points
Nash last 4 seasons; 123 goals, 128 assists in 287 games.
Carter last 4 seasons; 127 goals, 105 assists in 272 games.
Nash .875 PPG
Carter .853 PPG
Throw in the fact that Carter has played Center and Wing and is the superior defensive player, I would say that yes it’s very debatable that Nash is better than Carter. (Also if you throw it this season, which is understandable because Columbus has been such a disaster, it actually closes the gap in the PPG average.)
Yeah, and he’d cost less assets and less against the cap.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I really want Carter
and if we can get him in a deal without sacrificing Dubi/Kreider/Erixon/MDZ/McD then i am all for it.
As much as I agree that goals scored would not really change significantly at this point in a career by playing with better teammates if we are going to use historical PPG averages to compare you should consider the the talent he was playing with compared to Carter.
There was one year when Nash scored 40g but had 16a. Six fucking teen assists. Even if he never made a pass the entire season you mean to tell me that there were no more then 16 rebounds of his 250+shots that could have been put in for a goal?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Playing with better teammates also means you don’t have the puck as much and don’t see as much power play time. That year when he had 40 and 16 was almost a decade ago so I’m not sure how that’s relevant..Jeff Carter wasn’t even in the league yet.
Boy is that an absolutely ridiculous statement (and borderline offensive) to make. Theo Fleury had many personal demons that he was battling through his personal career that detailed his life and drove him to substance abuse; Jeff Carter is just a 26 year old whose talent makes up for the fact that he often likes getting drunk and going to the Jersey shore.
By comparing the two not only are you’re either being grossly unfair to Carter; or downplaying the internal hell that Theo Fleury dealt with much of his life.
by KingHenrik on Feb 18, 2012 4:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
agreed
poor Theo had to deal with something no child should ever have to and because of it he self medicated. I have always admired him for his strength and hurt for his pain.
by Eastversewest on Feb 18, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
theo also averaged 67 pts his three years on the rangers. on those shitty rangers teams, the fly line was such a bright spot.
by brodeur hearts avery on Feb 18, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
so very true, and if you look at the # comparison up top i made, the two players Nash and Carter really are not that far apart when it comes to point production, 67 points for Nash on average for full seasons. in the NHL and 60 points for Carter on average for full seasons in the NHL.
Carter has also played with much better players than Nash ever had. Let’s see what he does with a better team around him. Let’s just agree to disagree. I think Nash is better and the better option all around despite the salary difference. You don’t.
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
very easy to dig up posts proving that sort of intangible does not have as much influence as you might think, we have talked about it since this point was brought up quite a number of times before, just ask George.
Sorry I posted on this below. Damn cellphone
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
That's the same argument everyone made for Gomez.
Played on a defensive team, didn’t have much around him, etc. etc.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
If CBJ is shopping Nash
It’ll be unlikely they are also concentrating on Carter. I say only one of them goes somewhere.
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 18, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree there, if they trade Nash, they’re blowing it up and starting over.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
No chance they don't trade both, really.
They will absolutely trade Carter. He does not want to be there. They know that. They can’t force him to play better.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
CBJ is trying to Dump Nash on us/the Flyers
and trying to move Carter to reunite with Mike Richards on the LA Kings for Bernier+
i’m watching it too. Bryz the sieve
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 18, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
WW + JW
SKATING TODAY, YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS GUYS-
DUBI + MDZ ARE GETTING TRAIDZDED BEFORE TOMORROW’S GAME.
by VVIZARD on Feb 18, 2012 2:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Get Carter
I am less optimistic than most about the chance to get Parise over the summer and what he would cost.
Carter would give us 2 beast lines, has a manageable cap hit, could be traded or buried in a few years with his front loaded salary, and would leave us room for our RFAs and UFAs in future years.
I don’t think anyone knows who you are talking about. So maybe you are the only one who wants him.
Is it Jesus? Cuz he is probably faster than Hagelin, I am down if the contract is right.
Malkin?
According to my tea leaves it will take Avery, Redden and the rest of Bobby Bonilla’s contract. Would you do that?
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Feb 18, 2012 3:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
hah! Bobby Bonilla
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Feb 19, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Voldemort?
Take it to the net and keep jamming and jamming until somebody comes on you.
- Eddie Olczyk
by Scratch and Snif on Feb 18, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Nash for Lundqvist (e4)
but seriously, I see a minor trade for a Brad Boyes type player, underachieving but has put up decent numbers in the past. not saying I want him but its more likely than a blockbuster deal.
I love lamp.
"Stretching out those groins"
by TheOneAndOnlyGlenSather on Feb 18, 2012 3:04 PM EST via Android app reply actions
One guy i’d like to get which is not on the market… Blake Wheeler… he’s under contract only through next year, but WPG is still in contention so it’s unlikely… If the price is right i’d add whitney if he were available… which doesn’t seem to be the case… and Pavel Kubina would be nice to anchor the last defensive spot and also gives us some pressure relief for Staal, Girardi, McDonagh… and Kubina has a nice shot on the PP… he’s currently playing 1st pairing minutes…
Wheeler
Whitney
Kubina
my realistic wish list…
@clalicata17
I say the same thing every year – everyone who throws names out should be required to to explain how the people you are trying to get fit into the long-term cap situation. Most of the names you’re all throwing out are not rentals at all. For example, Carter’s cap hit runs for another 10 years! Every single important Ranger on the roster right now becomes a UFA before that…Lundqvist, Garobik and Girardi are up in 2 years. Del Zotto, Stepan & McDonough are RFAs in the next two seasons. Going into an uncertain CBA situation, you’re going to trade valuable players for 10 years of Carter?
Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.
http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo
http://twitter.com/PopsTwitTar
I don’t know where you stand on Nash (presumably against), but every important Ranger is a UFA before Nash expires too, and he gives you $2.6m less to play with in that term.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of stuff changes between now and then. What is Nash brings a cup? Plus he’s better than say Stepan and I would rather give the 2.6 to him than Step. Just my opinion
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
It’s all ifs and buts. What if 25 y.o Stepan is more productive than 31 y.o Nash? What if Carter brings us a cup? What if none of it means squat because Henrik’s going to a post a .975 in the playoffs?
You have to manage based on expectations. The expectations are that Nash will be like 99.9% of the players before him, and not consistently post 30 goal seasons into his 30s.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on opinion correct. I don’t think Stepan will ever be a 30 goal scorer or an elite offensive player. And I think a 30 years old Nash is better than 25 years old Stepan. That’s where our evaluations differ. Well know in 3 years
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
That wasn’t the comparison you made, and George was just giving a “What if…”
The comparison you made is that Nash is better than Carter + Stepan. I strongly disagree. 70 points is most definitely NOT better than 65 + 45.
Disagree. It’s better to have one 70 point goal scorer who is consistent. We don’t know what Stepan is yet. He’s been very average this year. Nash is a top talent. You don’t agree it’s cool. Everyone thought Dubinsky is the cats meow and now his contract will be a disaster. Stepan could be the same
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
How many NHL players are the end of the year will have 54 points??? ALOT. He will be an average NHL player and he’s not a sniper. I like him but let’s not overvalue him. Goal scores are rarer that’s why they get paid so much and demand for in a trade.
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
He’s a playmaker, not a sniper. 54 points would put him around 30th in the league for centers. Again, second year guy, 21 years old.. would put him right around where Couture was last year.
I am not over valuing him, but to say he is having a “very average” year is a freakin joke.
I very surprised about how some people can so highly regard prospects playing at the college level. And then watch step or say mcd play and not see he has incredible nhl potential. This kid can skate see the ice, make sick passes and dangles, oh and for being a playermaker this kid has a sick wrist shot that as he matures he will actually use it. He also has the uncanny ability avoid big hits.
I would be shocked if a healthy mature step didn’t put up a.90 pt season at some point in his career
by Sportsfan21 2 10 on Feb 18, 2012 5:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
54 points at 21 years old is average now?
Oh god……
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
He will be a Dubinsky type who scores 20-25 goals maybe. And now Dubinsky is overpaid. Nash Is a top scoring talent and averages over 30 per year. And again there’s no guarantee of Carter. And you won’t get Carter for nothing
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Poploser – $5.2m for a 65 point scorer is a good value, or at least fair market for it. Put it this way (and it goes for Nash too), would you sign Carter to $5.2m per year if he was a free agent 65 point scorer? I mean, we just gave B Rich a richer contract than that…
As far as the future, someone wih a Dubi-sized contract will be a sacrifice but really now, look at our prospect pool. In the next 3 years there is a good chance some of the players we think are our core are going to be out-played and forced off the roster by better development from one of our prospects.
I wouldn’t sign a 65 point scorer to a 10 yr contract at 5M, no
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i’d give up dubinsky plus erixon and a pick for carter. then, its only an extra $1million. not too much and a hell of an upgrade.
by brodeur hearts avery on Feb 18, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
I respect Georges work and his opinion but there’s no chart or graph that can definitely prove emotional state or change of scenery. It’s impossible to predict. I prefer to have big time players than not. I love Nash’s game and I think he’s the right fit here
There is historical data on players changing teams, from perpetual last place teams to contending teams. For example, Gabby’s numbers being the same here as on the Wild, and Prospals numbers being the same at CBJ as here.
It’s not universal and every person is different is my point. It’s impossible to predict unless we’re all clones. And people contribute in more ways than just numbers. See Mark Messier. Or Adam Graves he went from a 20 goal scorer to a 30-50 goal scorer. It does happen
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Graves went from 26 to 36 to 52 at ages 23-25, then only broke even 23 twice from there (with 38 and 33 goal seasons), before posting 36 goals in 245 games to round out his career. He’s a perfect example of why you don’t bet on players into their 30s.
Messier contribued more than numbers for sure (as did Graves), but both put up a lot more numbers before that too.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Ok so 3 years of Nash isn’t enough?? Despite the contract. They do want to win NOW it can’t always be just about the future. The NHL isn’t designed to have a dynasty anymore. When was the last repeat champion? Early 90s?
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Proving emotional state’s effect on performance makes well more assumptions than any stat does.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I agree but there’s more than JUST stats. Great players make great plays in big spots. Also impossible to predict you need to have a feeling on it.
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
I concur. Great players make plays in big spots, because they’re the guys on the ice in big spots. I don’t buy ‘feelings,’ sorry. There was probably a lot of stuff that went into the Amonte trade, but I assure you ‘feeling’ was not.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t mean feelings in that way. I meant a feel for what they bring besides points. Face offs PK board work checking etc.
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Ah ok.
Anyway, we’re spinning tires at this point. So I’m going to walk away from the computer now and figure out what that bright light coming through my shades is.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Very true. Will be nice when this is all over. One question for you george. If Nash scores 2 against us tommorow is he on the team by Monday?? :)
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Rams don’t make trades on just stats there’s a feel as well otherwise we wouldn’t have traded Amonte for Matteau and Brian Noonan. In the surface it’s nuts
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
This is what people don’t understand about Nash. He’s a great hockey player. Nobody on our team is technically elite or plays up to the numbers game that everyone is throwing around. Nash has points, but his value is far higher. We might be paying him, but if he had the club around him we have, he can carry a team to the cup. Anyone who has spent time actually watching his game can see how he plays a three-dimensional hockey game. He’s better than Gabby and Richards.
would you guys do Dubi and a 1st for Grabovski and a pick?
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both play the same position but Grabo has the better offensive upside
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
yes, grabovski has more offensive talent than Dubi which is what the rangers are lacking to be put into that elite status. and Burke likes gritty American players so he would like Dubinsky.
I love lamp.
"Stretching out those groins"
by TheOneAndOnlyGlenSather on Feb 18, 2012 3:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Burke loves Dubi wanted him on olympic team in 2010 but he was hurt
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldnt give a first rounder away for someone who isn't even close to top tier talent.
And Grabovski could walk at the end of the year for more money anyway.
If Dubinsky was playing better the difference between him and grabovski would be minimal.
Grabovski is a nice option, but I wouldn’t want to lose Dubinsky for him. I’d give a prospect instead, and if Burke says no so be it.
HENRIK LUNDQVIST OILS LIKE HE'S GETTING A HIMMER. DO YOU?
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Feb 18, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Grabovski is too high risk
for someone who doesn’t have any defensive ability.
What if he hits a slump like Dubi, we won’t be able to use him at all like we use Dubi in defensive situations.
We shouldn’t go after Grabovski with roster players outside of Woywittka, Bickel, Wolski, etc..
No, need to add depth, and Grabo maybe gets us another couple of goals here and there.
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and a first?
Would rather just do Dubi and a lesser pick for Grabo.
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Blueshirt Banter
Grabo is a rental, so no.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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Big buff
Dustin buff would be a great fit in our system. Added prescence on the blue line OR wing. Physical, hell of a shot, already won a cup. Would be tough since the jets are still in it but I think it would be a clutch pick up.
by inHANKweTruST on Feb 18, 2012 4:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
5.2 mil for the next 5 years…kinda risky
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
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"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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He’s good heavy shot would help PP but he’s fat lazy and has had at least one DUI very lazy player
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
No thank you. Not very good defensively, and another with allegations of sub use.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
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Scott Gomez, the gift that keeps on giving!
by nathansfamous on Feb 19, 2012 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
also wouldn’t hate a move for Penner
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Penney is awful and vastly overpaid and is injured NO WAY
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
yes he’s be awful for LA but in Torts he could find his scoring touch again by getting that big body to the net with Callahan
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
with LA desperate for offense he could probably be had for Wolski and a 6th/7th. two underachieving guys that don’t fit their current system.
I love lamp.
"Stretching out those groins"
by TheOneAndOnlyGlenSather on Feb 18, 2012 4:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Does that really help us though??? It’s a trade just to make a trade and it doesn’t make us better. Also I believe he’s still injured he has like 3 goals
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
wolski has like 0 goals and doesnt play so penner is an improvement over WW. and with Feds still out I’d rather have Penner out there than Bickel playing forward.
I love lamp.
"Stretching out those groins"
by TheOneAndOnlyGlenSather on Feb 18, 2012 4:35 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
WW is not playing because there is no room on the top three lines, and he is a waste on the fourth. Except for last season, WW has had over 40 pts every other season.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
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Scott Gomez, the gift that keeps on giving!
by nathansfamous on Feb 19, 2012 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
Penner hurt himself eating pancakes. The Kings hate him
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
another solid “rental” concept. If LA doesn’t think he’ll resign they may be willing to just take draft picks for him?
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
by bleed'n blue on Feb 18, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Terrible.
@DigDeepNYR
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Blueshirt Banter
I’ll stay away from pancakes.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I'd like at least two deals done
My preference is to have both Nash and Kubina.
by Guess Who's Back? on Feb 18, 2012 4:49 PM EST reply actions
And I’m
Not sure we can fit both cap wise but not sure on that
by DieselCane22 on Feb 18, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
so what do you guys think about trading for Rick Nash?
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 18, 2012 5:26 PM EST via Android app reply actions
wow, that possibility never crossed my mind.
Best Rangers day: May 27, 1994
Worst Rangers day: April 10, 1984
by Stepan the Ice! on Feb 18, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
who?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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I heard he’s this top prospect with lots of potential
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 18, 2012 6:00 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Corey Perry
Expensive, but shorter contract.
Deal Dubi, Erixon and a 2nd.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
That’s fair enough. Offense does always seem to be a bit of a struggle…and the Chi game showed us just how much we rely on King Henrik.
This’ll never happen, but it would be fun to imagine Stamkos on the Rangers. Not that it would help out on our PP, since even acquiring Richards hasn’t made the PP stop sucking (most of the time).
we had a “handshake” deal for Stamkos with the owner that isn’t there anymore, lol. I was at the TB game 2 Thursdays ago and that first TB goal by Stamkos was just brillance at its best. What a player.
http://www.snyrangersblog.com/2012/02/18/read-michael-st-croix-wants-to-prove-the-rangers-right/ if we don’t trade this guy for Nash I think he could be a top 6 and with any luck the steal of the 2011 draft as a 4th round pick.
I think when it's all said and done
We end up with Tuomo Ruutu and Ryan Suter and probably part ways with Dubi, Wolski, MZA, Erixon and a couple of picks.
Erixon isn’t being traded; neither are Ruutu or Suter
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
true
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Cross Kubina off the shopping list
@DarrenDreger Pending league approval, Pavel Kubina has been traded to Philadelphia.
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
the cost was a 2nd and a 5th
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Great price. Grossman got a 2nd and a 3rd, and Kubina has more of a pedigree/experience and offensive upside.
Blueshirt Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
that’s 2 dmen they have traded for now
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 18, 2012 6:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Wayne Gretzky circa 1985
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Steve Austin
I heard he has an awesome slapshot and can check a opponent through the boards.
by PureBlue on Feb 18, 2012 7:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I personally don't want to face the Flyers with new D
good thing we only have one more game left vs them hahah at least their goalies still suck hahaha
Not sure that Grossman and Kubina are enough to give Philly decent D. Actually I am sure – it’s not.
plus they still have Swiss goalie cheese
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 18, 2012 7:34 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I blame their system more than their goalies.
They play very, very aggressive. Three forwards up every play, and very little back-check.
It results in odd-man rushes all game. No wonder all their goalies suck.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
We need a power forward
So far scoring has been pretty evenly distributed between the richards and stepan lines and they seem to be playing well together. The line that looks broken to me is the boyle-dubinsky-prust line. Dubi and boyle look good together but prust just doesn’t fit well with them in the offensive zone. I think a big power forward with good speed and hands would fit the bill.
The examples that come to mind are, in no particular order : Knuble, brower, penner, hemsky, and bertuzzi.
Hemsky is Gaborik-lite, not a PF
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by George E. Ays on Feb 18, 2012 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt bertuzzi is an option
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 18, 2012 8:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
you said examples nevermind
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 18, 2012 8:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Spector’s Hockey @SpectorsHockey
Elliotte Friedman says Canucks not in Nash sweepstakes, Bruins not in (won’t move Rask), Rangers won’t move Del Zotto or McDonagh.
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ok numbers guy
what are the odds for a Nash trade now?
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
Via SNYRangersblog.com
According to Eric Francis on CBC, the asking price for Rick Nash is an impact player that can help the team now, two top prospects and a first round pick.
Elliotte Freidman says that the Rangers WON’T move Michael Del Zotto or Ryan McDonagh but that they are interested in Nash.
Francis says that a deal isn’t likely to happen until the summer.
Freidman says that Columbus is trying to push Nash on the Flyers and then plan to send Jeff Carter to LA.
Although we have already heard no-go for the Flyers. LA should take Nash, not Carter! :( be a smart move for them to take Carter tho
It’s not gonna happen at this rate. They don’t need to move Nash, and with him limiting the teams he will go to, there’s no way they can shop around and get what they want for him. He only wants to go to a contender, yet all of the contenders already have good/great teams and don’t want to give up a bunch of players for him, nor can they easily fit his massive contract (most contending teams are already close to the cap).
Whole thing is just a mess. Carter should go at some point though.
Blueshirt Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
yes, they key is they dont need to move nash
but if a team has the stones or gets desperate enough, the jackets will deal nash if they can get over value… which is possible
McD I can see but the over-rating of MDZ continues. what’s the team’s PP success rate? I forgot. Imagine not wanting to move MDZ for Rick Nash. wow.
Seriously? I think MDZ is our 2nd best overall D-man right now. With potential to be even better.
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by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:01 AM EST up reply actions
seriously. and I think he is behind Girardi, cD, and Staal. and too boot, I don’t think he’s THAT much better than Stralman. again, what’s our PP% that MDZ is supposed to have such an impact?
and what’s our PP without him? He’s not a PP QB – he’s been put in that role cos we have nobody else.
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"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:05 AM EST up reply actions
Right now our D-men (with Staal not back to his old himself) are McD & MDZ as the best overall D-men. Not as shutdown D-men, but overall package as voted for in the Norris trophy. That’s why he’s untouchable. He has shown he will develop into a stud.
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:08 AM EST up reply actions
I think you are severely under valuing Stralman. and let me say that Torts is too. I go to 25 games a year and let me say that Stralman is a very good skater and his positioning is usually very good. he also has a very accurate shot though not very powerful. but he does get it on net which is more important.
Stralman has been good, absolutely. Either he stays as you 2nd pairing or you make a trade and he bumps down to the 3rd pairing. I would rather see Stralman as a 3rd since that would be very good depth on the left side.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:15 AM EST up reply actions
I love Stralsy
I give him a 3 offensively and defensively on a scale of 1-5 on our team :).
He definitely is
ever since he joined us I had a lot of good things to say about him, sure he was really weak earlier on defensive wise, but the kid can pass, dangle, and skate.
I don’t know lol, but remember that first game against the Devs when we lost in a shootout, in the first period one of their defenseman just falls and gives us a scoring chance/oddman rush.
Then that player continues to make mistakes all game that lead to scoring chances for us. To me I don’t know how you pick that guy over Stralman.
But honestly defensively Stralman has really improved too, I think we should give credit to Torts and Sully for that. They have definitely helped his game.
I dont care about trophies. I care about the playoffs and I would rather have Girardi and even a non 100% Staal in the playoffs then MDZ.
Dont get me wrong, I think MDZ has played very good and has the potential to get better. But then again so does Erixon. And MDZ can get you more of a return.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:11 AM EST up reply actions
please, MDZ is like teflon. he gets so many passes from the fans it’s crazy. he was the culprit on Stamkos’ goal with one of his infamous cross ice passes that resulted in a goal. and he did it 3 more times after that in that game but no harm was done. he continues the same mistakes over and over again. sell high.
and did you see what happened the one time G ventured into the O zone in the Hawks game?
We’re batting for the same team and I think what makes our D the best in the NHL right now is the well-roundedness of them. Stay at home guys, offensively gifted guys, hitters, blockers – you name it. We have them. So, IMO, don’t thin out this solid unit by trading one of them.
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"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:21 AM EST up reply actions
He is not perfect, none of our D are. Hell, Girardi still makes very stupid decision over and over. I think he is one of our worst when it comes to breakouts from our own zone. I believe he leads the team in giveaways. Granted he has the most TOI but still.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:21 AM EST up reply actions
listen, I agree with you guys, no one is perfect. that first 10 minutes on Thursday was the worst 10 minutes he Rangers have played all season. it happens. my point with MDZ though is that he doesn’t learn from his mistakes. he’s played much better than earlier in the year, no question, but to say he can’t be traded for a stud like Nash is not the right thinking. again, my opinion.
Be fair, MDZ has learned. He has gotten better. No he is not mistake free but not many offensive Dmen at that age are.
But yeah, to say he is untouchable is a bit silly. Really only Henrik and Cally are untouchable.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:32 AM EST up reply actions
I say he’s better, much better than at the beginning of the season, no question. Don’t get me wrong, I like MDZ, I do. Actually I don’t dislike any Ranger. but to say he is not tradeable like he’s Scott Stevens (yes, he was traded, btw, as was Pronger, Chara, and Pheneuf) is over the top. I agree on your untouchables.
ok, if we split hairs about it then he is touchable. I would trade him if the upgrade was another d-man. Weber, Suter, Chara …
But not for Nash or Carter.
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:38 AM EST up reply actions
ok, fair enough. everyone has their opinions. I feel like the Rangers are just a tad short on scoring. if you could guarantee me that if we get a good rental like Selanne or Whitney and we sign Parise as a FA then I will take that right now. Dubi would have to be traded then. Trade him to the Oilers who want him for high end picks/prospects.
Couldn’t agree more on scoring with you but my theory is that a star coming into the line-up now could backfire on us. I actually don’t think this is Rangers’ year to go all the way. I’d be very happy to get experience in the play offs by going to the SC final or even conference finals and reload in the offseason to address our needs. Even though I feel Dubi is the logical choice to be on the trading block for some scoring machine, I’d like to see what he can do in the play offs first.
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:47 AM EST up reply actions
BTW, your ID name reminds me of someone I know with the same initials and is a great magician/illusionist, lol.
sorry, bro. I don’t do tricks
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:47 AM EST up reply actions
Erixon is an unknown entity. He may work out (I hope he does) but is just a prospect. MDZ is a proven NHLer now.
And it’s not about trophies, it’s about the overall game. Yes, G is indispensable in the play-offs but MDZ has been solid defensively too.
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:15 AM EST up reply actions
I will say that I believe that Erixon will be something special. that’s my opinion. If you like Larsson on the Devs then you will like Erixon. next year I believe Erixon starts with the angers next year, if there is a next year, lol.
agree on Erixon. I read he has potential to be Lidstrom-like. If only….
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:23 AM EST up reply actions
and to your point, nothing has been proven yet. Kreider, this, that, and the other thing. but does anyone know what he’s really going to do? Pavel Brendl was a #3 overall pick that the Rangers TRADED up for and he played 3 games with the Rangers? lol.
I hate that argument since if you rewind a few years you could say the exact thing about MDZ, Nash, etc…
And past pick history means shit if you have a different person evaluating talent now. If you trust Gordie then you have to trust his picks until he is proven wrong on multiple occasions.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:30 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, I know. I totally trust Clark. I was 10000000000% wrong about JT Miller. Not that my opinion matters. Miller is perfect for the Rangers. I even dare say that he may be playing for the Rangers some time next season. If he fills out a little more then he will be a monster.
Could happen. Then you have BR, Step, Boyle, AA and Miller down the middle. If Kreider comes in then you need to make a decision on AA or Boylle. More cap room if you want to look at it that way.
this is why I am not completely against getting Nash.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:37 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not sold on AA at all. His 3rd year in the AHL he put up 82 pts. he’s in his 3rd year in the NHL and he’s showing the same indecision as before, maybe even more. his release is painfully slow that does not work in the tight checking NHL. there’s something missing there.
To be fair, 20 y.o PPG players in the AHL have a high success rate in becoming scorers in the NHL.
Yes, his learning curve has been slower here, but he’s got a lot of skill, and for some reason a lot of the European scorers don’t start scoring til 24-25 (guys like Ovechkin aside)
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by George E. Ays on Feb 19, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Additionally, not every player needs to turn into a 70-80 point player to be deemed successful. Not many players in the league are that productive in general.
While we’d like every one of the prospects to turn into studs it’s not a realistic expectation. I’d much rather fill the complimentary roles with guys that are cost controlled than overbid for bottom 6 players on the FA market.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 19, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
don’t need 70-80 pts but a consistent over 50 or 55 would be nice.
by Richter1994 on Feb 19, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
How long did it take Dubi and Cally to have 50 or 55 point seasons?
Oh wait Cally’s never had one prior to what should presumably be one this year.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 19, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
I understand what you’re saying. I have only Dubi going to the CBJs for Nash, not both as I believe that AA has the bigger upside. but he needs to keep his head up and be quicker with his release and decision-making. his goal against the Bees is what he is capable of. Brilliant goal but we need to see more of that. AND BURY MORE WIDE OPEN NET GOALS, lol.
by Richter1994 on Feb 19, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Well in that case AA just shifts to wing. He’s been playing wing all season. If Dubi is traded for picks/prospects in 1-2 years…
AA Step Gabs
Kreider BR Cally
Hags Miller Thomas
Mitchell Boyle Prust
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Erixon is a prospect in the way guys like Ryan Johansen or Jonathan Huberdeau are prospects. They’re all destined to be NHL-level players, the question is how the high the ceiling ends up going.
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
"Oh, that sensible and sober* Rangers fan guy who is cool, actually" - Dominik, Lighthouse Hockey
*Statement has not been verified nor regressed
by George E. Ays on Feb 19, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
true enough, I just have a good gut feeling about Erixon. BTW, I sent you an email.
by Richter1994 on Feb 19, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
I think the issue is right now. We are a bit slim on the D side with Sauer out. Trading away another dman would only compound the problem.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:02 AM EST up reply actions
also true. but even with Sauer back in, MDZ should be an untouchable along with McD, G, & Staal.
I Am A Ranger
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale’s vagina." Rev. R. Burgundy
by MKwizardAD@aol.com on Feb 19, 2012 6:04 AM EST up reply actions
I would not call MDZ untouchable by a long shot. They have to move either him or Erixon. With Staal and McD on the left side something has to give. Would rather keep Erixon since I think he could be as good offensively as MDZ but better in his own zone. Plus he will be more cost controlled for a bit longer.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:06 AM EST up reply actions
no question, but the Rangers could make a trade for a D as I think they want Erixon to stay at the Whale.
I agree, I cant see them bringing up Erixon for the playoffs. If he struggled physically in the regular season he would get eaten alive in the playoffs.
They should make a move before giving up MDZ not with him gone you sort of need two defensmen. And the prices are a bit inflated at the moment.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:07 AM EST up reply actions
well Woywitka is with the big club after his conditioning stint which is surprising. or he’s here because something is brewing. I think the Rangers can make a deal for a bottom 6 D if they need to. But I’m shaking my head that if Dubi, MDZ, Thomas, and a #1 gets me Nash that Sather won’t do it.
I am not a Woy fan at all.
My point is the Rangers might be looking at it as if they trade for arguments sake Dubi, MDZ, prospect, 1st pick for Nash then they have to turn around and trade a 2nd and another pick/prospect to make up for the loss of MDZ. So it becomes Dubi, MDZ,1st, 2nd and 2 prospects.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:14 AM EST up reply actions
sorry, I was mentioning Woywitka because I think they are keeping here for depth in case of a trade, not that I was advocating playing him. My point is to not include MDZ to get Nash is nuts.
Well he would have to play if MDZ goes and we can get somebody in as a replacement. I too would think you need to include MDZ in that trade but it does come with immediate consequences.
The org has too be looking at the situation as 3 year window. The question becomes would Erixon develop past MDZ in that window.
It’s a tough call.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:18 AM EST up reply actions
yes, I agree, but it’s not something that can’t be overcome. don’t forget, getting Nash already makes the PP better regardless of the point men. if you look at my deal, Dubi, MDZ, Thomas, and a #1, the replacements are Nash for Dubi (big win), replacement D for MDZ (slight loss, maybe, depends on who they get), St. Croix for Thomas, and the #1 is really a 2nd rounder since it’s so late in round 1. Erixon replaces MDZ next year. Or how about asking for John Moore from the CBJs in the Nash trade?
He certainty would help the PP but I would not call him a PP guy. Cally already has as much PP goals in 50+ games then Nash every did in any season.
I personally would do that trade at this point but just saying that management might be reluctant at this stage. You still have to bring a lesser guy in and hope he catches on to the system quick and you are stil dealing with Sauer out. When all is said and done our D is worse for this year. Not many teams would be willing to weaken their D going into the playoffs.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:28 AM EST up reply actions
point taken. the thing with Nash is that he’s really had no one to play with. Carter has played 37 games this year. prior to this year, who has Nash had? No one. He’s all by himself. Imagine where all 5 opponents are focusing on you while you’re on the ice and you still get 30+ goals and 70 pts? to me, that’s incredible. put him with BR and Cally? wow, lol.
I would love to see the guy when he is playing with better talent. Though it has been said that we should not expect much more of an improvement, at least in the goal area. Im sure his assists will go up. One season he had 40 goals and 16 assists. 16!!!! That is unbelievable.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:34 AM EST up reply actions
you can’t look at just his stats on a horrible team. he’s a -20+. his team is awful, it’s not his fault. his goalie is a sieve. think Nash-BR-Cally, Hags-Stepan-Gaby, AA-Boyle-Prust for this year. Not bad. Look what Nash did in the Olympics with good linemates. he was great. and he’s a captain so what leadership are the Rangers losing?
Im not critisizing him at all. To only get 16 assists in a season with scoring 40 goals truly shows the kind of talent he was surrounded by.
He did play great but we are not an Olympic team going up against other teams such as Belarus.
Just need to temper those expectations since he is on the downside of scoring goals. With our talent I think he can sustain his goal production for a bit longer.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 19, 2012 6:42 AM EST up reply actions
actually I was agreeing with you, just didn’t come off that way. it’s not about the Olympic team, it’s about linemates. and Nash-BR-Cally could be one of the best lines in the NHL.
he costs too much, i hate getting big name players, especially ones whose entire team depends on them.
I would hate to get Malkin too just because of what it would cost to get him. Same thing applies for Kovalchuck/Giroux/Parise/Sedins.
those players mean so much to their teams it will cripple our development into an elite team to get those kinds of players.
unless we can get a steal, which we won’t I don’t like those trades, reminds me too much of Early Sather, i hope he makes the right decision here.
to make you feel better, I just read Spector’s blog, and there are all sorts of reports from various sources that are now saying a deadline deal for Nash is unlikely due to the asking price. that it will probably happen at the draft.
hooray!
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
And once again, for the 50th time, when great players are moved to better teams they don’t produce more.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I want
The New York Rangers.
and maybe Ray Whitney.
@DigDeepNYR
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "The arsonist has oddly shaped feet." - Ron Burgundy
Blueshirt Banter
NHL Goalies before 1959
were straight up crazy, imagine standing in front of a Weber slapshot with no mask on and it hitting you in between the eyes or better yet your forehead or nose.
just read about terry sawchuck and jacques plante.
Wayyyy different back then though. Granted they were still absolutely nuts, they played the game differently. Before curved sticks shots weren’t flying everywhere, and not many people had booming shots. Save % and GAA were also far worse. But just thinking about how I cringed when friends would shoot on me with 85+mph shots, imagine the padding or lack there of they would stop pucks with.
by tommydrum33 on Feb 19, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
Jason Blake, Ryan Smyth
Both experienced, and at the end of their contracts. Jason Blake would be a great skilled player to play on a line with Richards. Ryan Smyth provides a power play boost, and leadship, which is very valuable. With Sather’s relationship with Edmonton, I would have to believe Smyth will be relatively cheap to acquire, same with Blake. If not, stand pat.
Smyth is not leaving Edmonton.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
"Stepan, step in, step out" Timothy Leary
Scott Gomez, the gift that keeps on giving!
by nathansfamous on Feb 19, 2012 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
Tired of all the Nash talk. I hear Thomas Vanek is available and wants to play for the Rangers.
Tomas Fleischmann?
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
"Stepan, step in, step out" Timothy Leary
Scott Gomez, the gift that keeps on giving!
if we trade nash away, carter will deff. go as well imo
if we trade just carter, nash might stay. if we do however trade both, were deff. gonna want a goalie and a good D man or two in return, or at least i would thats what we would want back i dunno their stupid
I understand wanting a goalie back, but given that the separation between 95% of them is very small, I have no clue why you want to move your face of the franchise for one. You could have a big improvement over Mason with almost literally any of the UFAs this year.
If I’m Howson, I’d much rather trade Carter and/or Nash and get some forward/defense depth, and then make a smaller move for one of Nashville’s half dozen or so goalie prospects.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 19, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
WW not being able to push Stu Bickel out of the line-up will severely impact on his trade value, no? Torts must really, really despise this guy. actually, can’t say I blame Torts.
Torts already said same line up for tonight which means Stu is in and WW is not.
by Richter1994 on Feb 19, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Reading between the lines after talking around the locker room. Rangers players would be OK with Nash or other additions in the right situation. No one wants to see certain teammates traded, but they can survive a loss of some “chemistry”. Guys want to win. It’s a results business. And Dubinsky did not specifically say that management assured him that he would be around.
FYI, Flyers need goaltender, not Nash; Kings need scoring even more than Rangers.
This was comments from Steve Zipay from Newsday. Notice the implication from the Ranger players was that they want to win first as opposed to being adamant about keeping players on the team. It’s nice that we as fans root for certain players but we have to stop with this idea that players are not tradeable or that trading one or two players will take the Rangers down. To me there is only one player the Rangers cannot trade: The King. After that? If you want to say Cally is next then I’m ok with that. If Gretzky, Messier, etc can be traded, and I’m not saying it was the right thing to do, then Dubi and MDZ can be traded. Just sayin.
I take very little stock
In what players say to reporters asking “on the record” questions. 99% of the time they’re going to say the right thing.
They all know that trades a part of the business and I’m sure they understand that trade deadline buzz is always going to cause certain names getting tossed around. Especially if you’re on a team that’s emerging as a legitimate contender. And most importantly it’s out of their hands, at least for the guys without NTC/NMCs, as to whether they get moved or not.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 19, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
fair enough. but I take things collectively and in the aggregate and this seems to be the sentiment. Buchigross had the same comments the other day (about the players’ wishes).
by Richter1994 on Feb 19, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
But what do you expect players to say?
I don’t think the front office should try to improve the team.
I can’t wait until player X is shipped out.
A player admitting that trade rumors about him are distracting.
The Rangers also tend to play their cards reasonably close to their chest when it comes to trades, so who knows how much the players are kept in the loop about whether they’re being shopped. Maybe their agents can ask, but why would a GM want to let the cat out of the bag any earlier than is necessary?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 19, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
True, but I guess my point is that the Ranger fans say “no, you can’t trade so and so” like the players are the fans’ children, lol. I think the players understand better than the fans do about potential trades.
by Richter1994 on Feb 19, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Pittsburgh just signed James Neal to a 6 year, $30 million deal.
That is how you build a team. Trade your assets for the best return possible, and sign players to cap-efficient contracts.
They traded Goligoski for James Neal and a 5 per contract.
We want to trade Dubi, MDZ, Thomas, and 1st for Nash and a 7.8 per contract.
See the difference here?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
hope Nash gets injured this game for the rest of the season
then all of this stupid talk can stop.
Broken pinky.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Some folks were joking earlier about how funny it would be if (as a joke) Dubinsky and Nash were held out of tonight’s game. People would be freaking!
lmao, switch teams at intermission
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
That seems to be the going rate for quality scoring wings right now, somewhere in the 5m sweet-spot.
Blueshirt Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
doan or smyth ?
if we can get nash for a package of christian thomas and erixon and a 1st i say do it. im not getting rid of kreider strepan dubi and stepan no way that blue jacket g.m. is nuts so i say lets get a shane doan or a ryan smyth it will be alot less in the trade to get them hey its a thought
lohaus #54
Phoenix aren't sellers
They hold the number 7 spot in the west, and they’re winning. Smyth has said he doesn’t want to leave Edmonton either.
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