NHL News: Henrik Lundqvist For Hart Memorial?
Puck Daddy is one of the best hockey websites out there, and one of its main writers, Sean Leahy, surprised me this morning with the following headline: "Why Rangers goalie Henrik Lundqvist should be a Hart Trophy Front-Runner."
We have discussed the possibility here at Blueshirt Banter, but no esteemed writer like Leahy has really mentioned the possibility before.
My opinion on it is if you're looking at pure value to the team, Lundqvist HAS to be considered among the top three or four, and perhaps is the most valuable.
That being said, like in the MLB with the Cy Young Award and the MVP Award, I do not believe goalies should win the Hart, just like I do not believe pitchers should win the MVP in the MLB. The positions are too different, and it's not fair to compare the value of, say, Henrik Lundqvist, to Evgeni Malkin, for example.
I'd love to see Lundqvist win it, though.
Also from Puck Daddy, some interesting player poll results.
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HANK!!!
Yes, he should win the Hart at this rate and I am a goalie so I may be a bit biased
follow me on twitter @Riv34
Completely disagree with you.
Defensemen have the Norris, Forwards have the Ross and Selke, and Goalies have the Vezina.
Why should forwards and defensemen be able to win those trophies AND the Hart, but not goalies?
The Hart goes to the most valuable player, not most valuable skater. If a goalie deserves it he should get it.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
by Moshe52792 on Feb 19, 2012 5:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
How do you compare the value of a skater vs. a goalie then? I’m not a fan of the comparisons, and to be completely honest I like that each position has their own award and think there shouldn’t even be an “overall MVP” rather an MVP for each position
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
The fact is that there is an overall Most Valuable Player award, and it should be given to whichever PLAYER is most valuable to his team.
I’m not too sure how to compare, but if it’s a goalie, than so be it.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
yea I agree with you moshe
I will say I think the goalie would have to play out of his mind consistently throughout the whole season for him to be considered. Just as in baseball a pitcher like verlander would have to play out of his mind for the mvp. I do think hank has been playing like that but the season is over yet. I can honestly say I don’t think there is one person more valuable to a team than hank is to us. I maybe can make a case for malkin too, both who are playing at a WORLD CLASS level right now. I’m not looking it as much as comparing positions rather than their value to a team, so maybe that’s where we differ.
by klh2009 on Feb 19, 2012 5:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
To me it’s Hank vs. Malkin.
There are some other guys (Stamkos, Giroux, Quick, etc.) up there, but to me it’s two-horse race.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I tend to agree with almost everything you say sometimes
I have a man-crush on Anisimov
Every time McDonagh plays a game in a Rangers jersey, a Canadiens fan sets a car on fire.
"I'm not a screamer or yeller. If I would try to scream and yell at people, it's not what I'd naturally do. So if I tried to do that, it would be awkward, I think." - Eli Manning
by Tripodi on Feb 19, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yay!
Sometimes I feel I’m the only one haha
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I rarely comment anymore, I just rec Moshe’s stuff and let him deal with the backlash of his arguments.
by Hoggo on Feb 20, 2012 7:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lmao thanks :)
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
pitcher-goalie analogy not correct
Ptichers = 34/162 ~= 21 percent of games
Goalie = 65/82 ~= 79 percent of games.
Just a bit different.
The key for me is the back-up goalie. Does the back-up goalie has very similar numbers to the starter? If yes, then it speaks more to the team than the goalie, unless you’re willing to believe the team has 2 Vezina contenders. If there is a significant difference, like there is with Hank and Biron now, that speaks to the importance of the goalie.
This is really fair.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I’m not saying pitchers=goalies, I’m saying comparing pitchers to hitters is like comparing goalies to forwards. In games played, sure, it isn’t an equal comparison, but in the way they affect the team I think it is
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
The puck daddy article is using the comparison. Either way, it is much easier to compare players and starting goalies since they play so many games. As to your notion about effecting the game, then the goalie is heads more important than any one player. I think you can make the argument that a goalie should be in the MVP discussion every year.
http://www.playerspoll.ca/results/20112012-results/skills/who-is-the-best-skater
Gaborik got 33% of the vote for best skater. 2nd place was Crosby, with 9%
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Datsyuk destoyed that poll. Hardest to play against, smarterst, hardest to take the puck from, most difficult to stop (goalies only poll), cleaning player to play against,
LUNDQVIST won the hardest goalie to score on poll, with 38% of the vote. 2nd place was Rinne, with 19%.
Gaborik also won “fastest skater” to go along with “best skater”. Tortorella 1st in coach who demands most from his players, with 59% AND 5th in coach you would most like to play for, with 7%. Wow.
Rangers were voted the 4th most overrated team, at 9%, and MSG was the 3rd most favorite Arena to play in and has the 5th worst ice, with 8% of the vote.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
ot bad.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
why not? if anyone is most valuable it’s the King though Malkin is making a very strong case right now. But Hank won’t get it. They’ll come up with an excuse of why he shouldn’t get it. Just like when Shanny said it wasn’t Moore that hit Feds, it was Feds’ stick that hit Feds. You can’t make this stuff up folks.
He should at least be top-3 at this point. Earlier in the season it looked to be more about the defensive system we were playing, but in the past month or so the team hasn’t played as well defensively, and it’s exposed Biron, whereas Hank has continued to put up superb numbers.
Blueshirt Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
Hank should of been up for a Hart in previous years, when he basically carried the team on this back into the play offs. This year he has been phenomenal, but we actually have a team this year, not just Lundqvist. Malkin with the help of Neal has kept Pitt from being a bubble team to fighting for home advantage come post season. I personally think Malkin runs away with the Hart, especially of Crosby doesn’t return.
Hank for Hart!
No questions asked.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while...you'll miss it." Ferris Bueller (1985)
by Danz10 on Feb 19, 2012 6:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Hank has my hart <3
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Of course he should be eligible to win it
He’s a player, just like the rest of them, and shouldn’t be disqualified because of the position he plays. Its an absurd suggestion to suggest otherwise…why should he operate under different rules? They should be disqualified because they have a huge effect on the game? That doesn’t really seem fair (or even make sense) to me.
Goalies are more important to their teams than pitchers.
True number 1 goaltenders play almost everyday, and they usually play 60 minutes – a complete game. Goalies do not get pulled in the third period when the team is winning and he looks tired. Goalies have the most direct impact on a team’s win rate. Pitchers are only responsible, assuming a 5 day rotation, a ~1/6 of the team’s games(assuming a game everyday and no travel days); whereas Hank has already started in ~75% of NYR games and is responsible for 73% of the team’s wins this season . Hank has started ~80% of the Rangers’ games played in his career.
So the traditional reasons why pitchers don’t win mvp don’t exist in a hockey context generally and especially not in the case of Hank who is showing Hall of Fame potential.
(justin verlander, AL MVP, started only ~20% of the tigers games and was credited with only 25% of their win total.)
In the final analysis, a pitcher who started much more than a majority of a team’s games AND threw a complete game every time out AND was responsible for the vast majority of his team’s wins would should get the MVP without question – and so should Hank.
by The_TIKKanen on Feb 20, 2012 5:28 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree that goalies are more important
but disagree with your reasoning. While Verlander may have started 20% of the games, he clearly had a much greater impact in game than any of his teammates. Hitters usually get 4 or 5 PAs a game, Verlander faced 28.5 batters per game. Over the full year he faced 969 batters, as opposed to a position player’s 500-600 PAs. Pitchers have a more limited defensive role, but are still on the field. They certainly have much more impact over a season than a DH, and I think the 300+ extra PAs outweigh the difference in defensive roles, although that’s certainly debatable.
by yellomellojello on Feb 20, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Puck Daddy is pretty good
I like Wysh, but that Ryan Lambert dude needs to get hit by a train. I usually just skip his articles and go right to the comments, where dozens of people tell him that.

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