New York Rangers Show Some Flaws In Loss To Penguins
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 22, 2012 9:00 AM EST
in New York Rangers Analysis
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PrintWith the NHL trade deadline rapidly approaching Glen Sather only has a few more days to evaluate some of the changes the New York Rangers need moving forward this season. If Sather is going to put stock in the Rangers' loss to the Penguins Tuesday night, then offense is going to be the primary ingredient added.
The Rangers' offense went cold against the Penguins, and although they had a few quality chances more often than not the Rangers couldn't penetrate the neutral zone and had a hard time finding space once they did. Artem ANisimov, brad Richards and Marian Gaborik were all active in the offensive zone, but none of them found a way past Marc-Andre Fleury.
The result? A tough-to-swallow 2-0 loss on the road to a division rival who is doing everything in its power to toppled the Rangers' stranglehold on first place in the division.
Join me after the jump for more.
It's become increasingly obvious that the Rangers can use another scorer on their squad. That doesn't necessarily mean the Rangers need to go after Rick Nash, but offense should be at least looked into at the deadline. The Rangers might also look into adding some experience in addition to scoring.
In the end, the Rangers certianly shouldn't panic over one loss to the Penguins, but there have been some signs that the Rangers' offense is prone to stall, along with a power play that seems to be on and off by the game.
So what do you guys think? Should offense be something the Rangers look into at the deadline?
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It's obvious they need offense
But that doesnt mean they need to make a trade. They do need better scoring depth, and I think that starts with taking Bickel out of the lineup and benching Rupp for a few games. Neither contributes anything in their 5 minutes of ice time. Wolski and Zucc are flawed players, but they also have game-changing offensive talent. We cant keep running out the same bottom 6 players who score once every three weeks. I’ve been saying it for weeks: not everyone can be a grinder. Why not give those 5 minutes of ice time to Wolski and Zucc with Richards or Stepan in the middle?
We can rosterbate about trades all day, but with only 4 or 5 teams truly out of the playoff race, we’re not going to find anything useful that doesnt cost Kreider or Erixon.
I dont think they can just plug any of those guys in and get immediate consistent scoring. If that were the case they would already have done it. They need to make a deal. It doesnt have to be nash but i has to be someone who can create and/or finish on a fairly consistent basis. Especially when your top scorer is streaky as hell.
by DieselCane22 on Feb 22, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
By the same token
If such a player existed, they would have already traded for him. Nobody wants to sell the farm for Nash, so what other options do they realistically have?
Really the only other that we know on the market besides Nash would be Carter. but seems like nobody wants to trade assets for Carter that they could use for Nash.
I personally feel Carter will go to LA. Then there will not be many suitors left for Nash, Slats wont raise his bid, CBJ doesn’t trade Him.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily. There is an art to trading, thats why everyone waits until the deadline in most cases. The fact is, outside the shootout MZA has provided very little, same with Wolski. The problem is that the game is usually played at 5 on 5 and they have had limited to no effectiveness to this point so why would that change now? If there was a reasonable chacne those guys could really help scoring, they wouldve been playing already.
by DieselCane22 on Feb 22, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily. There is an art to trading, thats why everyone waits until the deadline in most cases.
I think a lot of that has to do with the parity that exists in the league given the abundance of 3 point games. Teams that were written off in the first 30 or so games are now making a big push to stay relevant. GMs aren’t going to panic in the 1st half of the season and start trading away key players, maybe they’ll fire a coach but odds are they keep the players for as long as possible in order to turn things around. How often does a bona fide star player get traded in the first 40 or so games of the season?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Totally agree. Almost never. And teams and gm’s wait until they are sure they wont be in the playoffs before they swing deals.
by DieselCane22 on Feb 22, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Off the top of my head I can think of Jumbo Joe going from Boston to SJ. Otherwise a lot of the big names get moved in the offseason. It allows teams to figure out their FA budgets and then the losers in the FA spending sprees will look to trades to fill in their needs.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
I think the original reason they sent MZA down was because he was not a productive guy given the little bit of ice time they gave him. I’m not sure that 5 minutes a game for MZA to be effective is enough time.
yes i agree with that
But I think a bottom 6 with wolski or zucc, not rupp and bickel, should not be limitited to 5 mins a night like they are now. Their play should dictate the amount of ice time they get. As it stands now the bottom two line don’t create, and if they are in the zone for a good amount of time its all board play. So basically their not working, if we plug in a few new guys I’m not saying it will def work but give it a shot, if they play well certain nights give them a couple more minutes, it will help the other lines giving them a break and it won’t be a strictly defensive bottom 6.
by klh2009 on Feb 22, 2012 9:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree they don’t contribute much, but they also don’t give up much. Not sure that would be the same for WW and Zucc. Another huge problem if you bring up Zucc , who gets sent down? It would have to be someone other than WW, Rupp, both having 1 way contracts.. So I think at this point it would be creating a hole elsewhere?
hasnt wolski been sent down multiple times already? and who is going to pick rupps bum contract up off waivers? ive been dieing to see zuccs play and i think now is the time. build from within people. screw trades. weve got what we need in the system.
WW was only sent down once on a conditioning stint (I think). He can’t be touched for a conditioning stint on waivers. And at half the cap hit near the deadline I think Rupp could be picked up by a team looking to add toughness. But I agree, I would like to see Zucc come up and get top 6 minutes (however that disrupts our current top 6) to see what he has for a game or 2. Just not sure anyone could show much in 4-5 minutes a game.
that's my point
Why does zucc or wolski have to be on ice fo 5 mins at a time? I’m not saying send down rup, I would like to see prust rupp and bickle playing against the tougher teams. Other than those teams, I want bickel to sit and plug in ww, or zucc on one of those lines. I wouldn’t mind a third line of dubi mitchell and zucc, and let the 4th line grind. Dubis line now is stricly a defensive line I feel. Were never going to get dubi goin with him on a line like that. He’s not scoring and now stopped assisting because as we can see boyle can’t finish even when he has a chance and prust while I think he’s a better player than people around the league give him credit for, he’s not a goal scorer. Bottome line we need offense and having 2 defensive lines and by saying they’re not giving up much either, isn’t cutting it. We need some goals especially from the bottom 6
by klh2009 on Feb 22, 2012 11:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, but there is no saying that Zucc or WW bring that scoring punch either. As we all know WW has a tendency to completely disappear entirely for long stretches. But in order for Zucc to come up, someone has to go down. Unless WW is traded. They aren’t risking Rupp on waivers. I think the only safe player to send down is Bickel.
well yea wed have to send down some1
I can say its safe to say wolksi is goin to be traded if not send the guy down, if he gets claimed he’s a rfa at the end of the season. But I’m fine with also leaving zucc down and playing wolski instead. Obviously there’s not a definite that hell bring the scoring punch but as the lines are now they are not scoring. So let’s try somthing else. I’m not leaning on wolski to score but its more of that whole dubi line would change from a denfensive line to having more of a two way game. I also wouldn’t mind sending bickel down brining up zucc. Regardless you understand my point, the bottom 6 needs to change, and I’m sure most here would agree.
by klh2009 on Feb 22, 2012 12:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think before Torts puts WW in his lineup, he would sooner puts on some skates and pads and go out there himself. He has used Bickel,Newberry and even Avery who imo Torts hates with a passion. Right, wrong or indifferent Torts obviously does not trust WW in the mix.
Yup, that ship has sailed and subsequently crashed on a deserted, uncharted, actively volcanic island full of man-eating plants. WW is a dead-man walking at this point on the Rangers.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
that's just sad then
First I don’t think we saw enough of ww to say that shit has sailed, and def not enough this season. If your saying that because torts just has a thing where he hates certain people I understand. But if you think a guy like bickel should be playing over somone who has put 40 to 50 pts numerous times there’s a big flaw in this coaching staffs thinking. Maybe I’m coming off wrong, I don’t see ww coming in and scoring 10 goals in the last 25 games. I want somone on the 3rd line with dubi that’s not boyle or prust. If everyone is ok with having 2 lines that will score, and two that won’t and just plays defense that’s ok, I don’t agree with that thinking but its an opinion. Somone needs to be inserted on that line to transform it, whether that be ww, or zucc or somone else. Its pointless to pay wolski 4 mil to sit and watch when the guy has some talent. For god sakes were playing bickel a defensive dman on our wing, come on.
by klh2009 on Feb 22, 2012 1:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
all of Torts forwards have to backcheck and cover. we’ve seen Gaborik 2 years ago incur the wrath of Torts for not playing D, and now we see Gaborik backchecking like a madman sometimes. WW didn’t/doesn’t do that. noone is denying he has offensive skills, but if you don’t play 2 ways you don’t play. their current success is based on 2 way hockey.
Shoot the puck Barry!!!
Kick save AND A BEAUTY by Giacomin!
well my first choice isn't wolski
I want zucc up, but ok I mean its not like the guy sits ther and cherry picks all day. He might not pay much d but if on a line with dubi and let’s say mitchell we can disguise that. Anyone can play defense its done with efforst and motivation. It can be changed, but let’s say it doesn’t, which it probably won’t your right, there’s 5 other guys on the ice on our team, we have a world class goaltender great defense and on a line with dubi and mitchell, it won’t be the end of the world. I by no means see ww playing but I just don’t understand the thinking behind it, besides just hating the guy. Its not even like we gave him a chance this year. I know the answer is the guy plays no d etc. Ill take the other road, bickel boyle rupp prust play not offense! I feel bad for dubi I really do. But to each his own and for me you need to score to win, fighting and playing d doesn’t get the job done.
by klh2009 on Feb 22, 2012 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not really sure why Torts refuses to play WW. But I trust his judgement and knowledge of his players and system is better than ours. At least I hope it is. lol
that's exactly where I stand
I know he knows more about his players but I just think a nice little change of pace and see what you got won’t hurt much. Forget wolski like I said before its not about him Its about changing the 3rd line for me.
by klh2009 on Feb 22, 2012 1:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
As I said, it doesn’t have to be Nash, but they need something offensively. Right now they don’t have enough to get over the hump. This time of year all teams start to ratch it up a little and just relying on the King totally is not going to cut it especially in the playoffs.
agreed
They def need a scoring touch but while not resorting to drastic measures to get it. Sather son needs to work his art of stealth and deception to work something out.
by The Richards-Gaborik Connection on Feb 22, 2012 9:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The part I think that gets overlooked (or at least is not talked about very much) is that by adding a top 6 forward, whether it be Nash, Carter, or whoever, it allows other guys on the team to slot down into a more appropriate spot, matching up against more appropriate competition. For example, a third line of Hags, Dubi, and Boyle to me now becomes a viable offensive option (especially against other teams 3rd line competition), with Prust sliding down to the 4th line, giving us 3 lines that can score, and 1 pure defensive minded line.
As hard as it is, I am applying Torts’ system of perseverance and focusing on playing “our” game and relating it to all these trade talks. I think the team needs to make the run as is and then analyze the playoffs to see what was missing if the team does not make it all the way.
I would rather keep the lineup somewhat similar. Rupp and Bickel should be criticized for not doing what they are supposed to. The Blackhawks and Penguins games were prime for rough stuff in an effort to turn the game around. If they are not fighting and playing a physical game, I can see why people want to see them out of the lineup (not that I agree…)
I wonder what the Rangers record is this year when they have a fight…
Just remember...
A couple weeks ago, the Rangers lost 1-0 to the Devils at the Garden, and looked very flat in doing so. There were 8,000 posts about needing to make a move at the deadline and adding a scoring forward.
A few days later, the Rangers beat Philly and Washington no back-to-back afternoons, scoring 8 goals in the two games.
Let’s not jump to conclusions and do anything rash. It’s one game, and the team generally bounces back from them very well.
Gaborik hat trick on Friday.
Pierre McGuire needs to go away.
by MartyEqualsPansy on Feb 22, 2012 9:48 AM EST reply actions
yeah the Rangers are a streaky team
but they do need offensive help.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Feb 22, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
The sky isn't falling, and nobody is cliff diving
but if you look at the play since January 12th it has been up and down. L,W,L,W,L,W,W,L,W,W,L,W,W,W,W,L,W,L11-7 over that 18 game period. Take away that 4 game w streak and it’s been .500 hockey. Not saying trade everybody, Not saying get Nash, Carter etc. But something needs to be addressed. Internally or an outside trade may get them moving again.
why would you take out a four game win streak?
was it not valid somehow?
that’s like saying take out the bruins’ four wins in the finals last year and vancouver won the stanley cup
this team is like any other, there are strengths and flaws, peaks and valleys
when they win everyone plans the parade, when they lose sather needs to trade for bobby ryan and a delorean to bring in the 1955 version of rocket richard
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Fair enough. Leave it in. I did overall leave it in the above comment. But their play has still been up and down. I did clearly say NO need to go get Carter,Nash Etc. (Ryan’s name never even appears in any post I have made here). I think I have been one of the biggest advocates of NOT bringing in a big name at this time. All’s I said was “But something needs to be addressed. Internally or an outside trade may get them moving again.” I don’t get over hyped when they win, I’m not jumping off any cliff when they lose. Just saying that they COULD improve the way they have been playing.
11-7 over the last 18 isn’t horrible, but it sure is not the kind of hockey I would like to see coming down the stretch with NJ, heating up.
i wasn't indicating you specifically
just more of a general comment on how everyone reacts
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
I agree. When I said internally I meant line shake ups, call ups etc. I would like to see them get a little kick in the ass somehow without blowing up the farm.
the problem is
the higher end scoring talent isn’t readily available for a call up
i mean, wolski is not going to be the guy, much as we all had muted expectations
mza i don’t see being that guy (though i wouldn’t be shocked if he went elsewhere and pulled a parenteau)
don’t think the whale have much else….maybe audy-marchessault? i don’t watch them enough to have a finger on the pulse of who else can be called up that would help in the short term
realistically i think we can expect to see kreider & thomas get a shot at making the team next year; for this year, barring a major move (which isn’t the best of ideas) i think they roll with what they have
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Have to agree here, and with the other things you’ve stated about letting this team go as is (maybe a small addition before the deadline if anything), let them take a run at it, and then they can re-tool in the off-season and ‘blow their load’ so to speak next year.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
just because the window is open doesn't mean you have to jump through it on the first try
it’s still way too early to predict anything, but
IF they finish first in the conference and make a run to the conference finals or finals, a few tweaks will happen in the offseason
IF they finish first in the conference and get bounced in the first round, i’d expect a pretty decent shakeup (i.e. an offseason deal for nash for dubinsky or something to that effect)
IF they fade down the stretch for lack of scoring BUT go on a run in the playoffs, again, minor tweaks
IF they fade down the stretch for lack of scoring AND get bounced in the first round, big shakeups
i mentioned in one of the threads yesterday that the hawks, penguins and ducks all had lengthy runs with their built-in core before winning a cup, i don’t think it will be different with this group
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
the problem is that our best players aren’t getting younger… Lundqvist is 30 and having the best statistical season a goaltender has ever had… EVER…. we have to add some offense i don’t care from where but we need it…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Yup, what you said in your last sentence was what I was referencing above, about letting them make a run at it ‘as is,’ then re-tool in the off-season to address any issues. Making any dramatic changes now doesn’t make sense because you really haven’t seen this team completely healthy, nor go through a full season together.
I’m still in for adding a scorer, but not if it sacrifices current depth and future flexibility.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
I would not mind MZA getting a crack, But in order for him to be effective I think he would need top 6 minutes, not 4-5 a game. I don’t know what it is about that guy, but I think he will be a P.A elsewhere. I said 2 years ago (when the sign Kovy talk was out of control) as an alternative to getting Kovy, to let P.a and AA on the top 2 lines and keep building ,people laughed at me here.
no… he’s another pass first player… we have 3 of our top 6players as pass first players… we don’t need any more
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
I mean Parentau is only playing like this because of Tavares
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I’ll take Joe Pavelski in return
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avery for pavelski, wolski & mza for nash
done and done
and damn the cap
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
sorry forgot the sarcasm tag
or was it the pipe dream tag?
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
:)
if i read more carefully i would have noticed it, you didn’t need the tag. GF is a sharks fan, i watch a lot of sharks games, i was quick to respond.
Shoot the puck Barry!!!
Kick save AND A BEAUTY by Giacomin!
no worries
figured it was ambiguous if you had to ask
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
i should stop posting from hookah bars
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
every team loses a clunker once awhile
even the Red Wings
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
The problem is not the clunker
It’s that these clunkers keep coming against the Penguins and Devils. Keep playing like this and we’ll draw the 4-5 matchup against Pittsburgh and get bounced in round 1.
by Steeeve on Feb 22, 2012 11:17 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
while it is not time to panic...
…it is concerning that since the Chicago game, there have been way too many defensive breakdowns and the team seems to be getting outworked by the opposing team…the offensive makeup of this team can’t overcome this poor play…if this trend continues coupled with the way the Penguins and Devils are playing lately and Mike Keenan will be eating his words when he said that the Eastern crown is already decided…I would not give up what Columbus is asking for Nash, but the Rangers would be wise to try to get a ray Whitney type player and get back to their good defensive habits and also outwork their opponents…
yeah if Ray Whitney type is available...
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Feb 22, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
all teams have flaws
We are all aware that the Rangers biggest issue is scoring, including on the PP. But they are still successful. This success may not translate into the postseason, but its worth a try.
I am still sticking with not giving up the farm for Nash, and trying for a decent rental forward that wont require too many assets.
But if they stay pat I will also be happy. I’d like to see how they do in the playoffs before fixing something that may or may not be an issue.
The Rangers need to stay the course of not trading young assets for superstars and hoping they fit the mold. It has worked so far and I think we can all agree, we are happy and excited for where this team is headed. Let’s stay the course.
by truebluesince75 on Feb 22, 2012 10:39 AM EST reply actions
The fact that Gaboriks offensive game has disappeared of late,and Dubys hasnt shown up all year certainly has’t helped. This team needs two scoring fowards and a veteran defensemen. We can’t put all of our eggs in one basket dealing for Nash or Carter. Dallas reportly has Erikksson,Ott, and Ribeiro on the market.That could be a cheaper alternative.
not trying to single you out. but it seems like every time gaborik has more than one game in a row where hes held off the score sheet that people start saying hes dissapeared. that lines been on fire before last night. in fact im pretty sure he set up the last goal we scored (ot winner vs columbus) even malkin doesnt get on the score sheet every night. except, it seems, when he plays us :(
I’d still like to see which players show up in the playoffs. Dubi could redeem himself. Richards could tank. who knows. but the Rangers have been very successful with Dubi having a bad year, Richards and Anisimov disappearing for stretches, etc.
Can you imagine if any or all of these guys catch fire in the playoffs? it would be amazing. The pieces are there and hopefully they will rise to the occasion.
by truebluesince75 on Feb 22, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
He’s had a couple of 4 game stretches where he hasn’t recorded a point. Otherwise he very rarely goes more than 2 games without getting on the scoresheet. And he’s been held without a shot just twice in the last 30 games. There is no other player on the Rangers that’s even close to being the game in and game out threat that Gaborik’s been this year.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
although I am sure Richards would love to bring in Erikkson, he can’t be much cheaper than Nash. Maybe his cap hit is better (not sure in the slightest but would assume) but it would cost the Rangers dearly.
A better bet is a player like Whitney: experienced, some decent skills left, cheap to acquire
by truebluesince75 on Feb 22, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Too bad Phoenix is hanging around the playoff picture.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
with 3-pt games, everyone hangs around to the end.
by truebluesince75 on Feb 22, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
That’s the point. So why would Phoenix trade him? Making the playoffs and getting at least 2 home games is a big deal to a team like Phoenix.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Getting a player like Erikksson would be nice. Smaller cap hit, younger and he’s signed for the next four years. A team like Dallas might ask for some youth in return. Although the price may end up being similar to Nash’s. Nash is made slightly cheaper since he’s expressed interest in leaving Columbus. Erikksson hasn’t said, “Boo”.
I doubt many teams would be willing to take the Rangers duds (Duby, WW, Rupp, MZA or etc) without a sharp discount in their values.
The more I think about it I say the team stands pat for this seasons run. Fix any perceived issues in the off-season.
I don't think it was the offense that bothered Torts
Note the benching of Stralman and the insertion of Bickel during the 3rd. I don’t think he forgave the mistake of the Malkin goal.
If history is prelude, Mitchell and/or Hagelin (plus some minor league talent) for a defenseman or a 2nd tier scorer. The trade for defense becomes more likely if Sauer won’t be ready for playoffs.
Yesterday wasn’t a terrible loss assuming you can’t win them all. It was the Rangers first lost in that building. They didn’t hit and didn’t seem as fast as usual. Fleury made some saves. Pittsburgh is better defensively than they usually get credit for.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Feb 22, 2012 10:50 AM EST reply actions
I am shocked that Bickel was allowed to come back out after he forgot he was slotted back to D and was playing as an offender. I figured Torts would have blown a gasket and would have given him a time out. Torts doesn’t seem the type to forgive mental lapses.
by truebluesince75 on Feb 22, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
He’s been playing forward for 4 games. Had to be a communication issue between him and Sullivan, or both Sully and Torts tapped him for the next shift and he just went out to do what he had been doing.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
Scoring............
I think that there isn’t a single rangers fan that thinks that this team needs a guy that can score a goal. so I’m just gonna throw his name out there and I know people dont like him cause hes lazy but if there is one thing he can do is score goals. and if NYR play him with someone that can feed him the puck (richards) he could be a sniper we need besides gabby………………………. SEMIN…. how about that?
zherdev?
"I was thinking, like, just to jump him and beat the fuck out of him, but I didn't wanna get suspended for the Winter Classic, you know?" - Brandon Prust
HEN-RIK
by BombersGmenBlueshirts25 on Feb 22, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Nobody can deny the fact that we lack offense, throw whatever stats you want about our goal differential, we have the best tender in the game and we don’t give up goals, so when you only give up 1 or 2 goals a game and factor in what 8 or 9 shutouts the goal differential is going to jump… but we need another scorer, for reasons stated above we have guys slotted above where they should be…
I don’t care where it comes from whether it be a trade or whether it be from promotion or signing Kreider, this team needs some offensive help…
I had said it weeks ago Kreider should be signed at the end of his season and put right into the mix… where we are sitting currently we have the ability to get home ice advantage and we should be able to get the favorable matchups for him to help boost his confidence… i’m not worried about “stunting his growth” he’s played 3 years of college now, 2 years in the World Juniors, and 1 year of other international play… he’s not going to be scarred by stretch run and playoffs… he’s a big game performing see bean pot and World Juniors… if we aren’t going to trade him might as well use him…
@clalicata17
You really think Torts is going to throw a kid that he’s never been able to put into an NHL practice let alone a minute of ice time in a real game into the heat of battle in late season games which will be essentially playoff games for some teams or the actual playoffs?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Why not? He’s seen him play in offseason workouts, there was even discussion of having him sign this past offseason… how much did he know about hagelin… zero… If the kids the type of player that we don’t want to trade and he’s deemed NHL ready why not use him…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
and please don’t bore me with the fuckin cap implications by using a year of his ELC… money’s a non-issue for the rangers…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Such a fucking ignorant statement.
If you aren’t willing to learn, why the fuck are you even posting?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Dolan never gives a shit
But Sather will. Money isn’t an issue per say, but the salary cap is a huge issue.
Redden is banish to Hartford because WE CAN’T HAVE HIM ON THE SALARY CAP.
I have a man-crush on Anisimov
Every time McDonagh plays a game in a Rangers jersey, a Canadiens fan sets a car on fire.
"I'm not a screamer or yeller. If I would try to scream and yell at people, it's not what I'd naturally do. So if I tried to do that, it would be awkward, I think." - Eli Manning
Had they signed him in the offseason they still would have had training camp and pre-season games to get an idea of how he plays vs pro competition. Same applies to Hagelin and they also had a bunch of games when he was in the AHL to form an opinion. And when does Kreider’s season end anyway? April if he’s playing in the Frozen Four?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
the point is if we don’t make a move for some reason and kreider is deemed to be nhl ready then give it a shot. what other option do we have? wolski and zuccarello?
I just don’t see a team that coached by a guy that believes in such a process oriented system to throw the kid into deep end at that stage of the season.
He might have NHL ready skills but every report I’ve read on Kreider has been that his instincts have lagged behind his physical skills and just this year was he become better in that facet of the game. If he had a bit of a learning curve in the college game I’d imagine he’ll have one at the NHL level too.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
who says he’d have a learning curve? I’m not saying you put him out there in defensive zone situations… the advantage of home ice allows you to have favorable match-ups so you can effectively keep him off the ice for certain circumstances… He played in the International Ice Hockey Federation tourney last year and was fine, NHL level players played there… I’m not worried about his learning curve at all…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Playing with teammates he’s never played with before in a system he’s never played in before, facing faster, stronger and better defensemen he’s never played against.
You really don’t think there’s some room for adjustment? There’s a handful of guys from every draft that can make an immediate impact in the NHL. I’d love for Kreider to step right in and dominate, but I have a hard time believing the Rangers feel that is going to be case.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
if he truly has hagelin speed… who’s to say he couldn’t do what hagelin did and then some… hagelin is an energy type player and isn’t really a goal scorer… Kreider is a scorer… why couldn’t he have the same success…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
i didn’t say dominate, but he could easily come in and score some goals for a team that needs goals…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
last year BC’s coach wanted Kreider to stay another year to work on his two-way game. and from all reports his two-way game has improved and has become a solid all around hockey player not to mention his numbers are up this year and BC plays 3 scoring lines.
and to quote what he said, "I read a Mark Messier quote a while back where he mentioned that you don’t focus so much on goals and assists, but just do whatever it takes to win. That’s the mentality of this program — we all want to win here. We all appreciate a blocked shot as much as a goal. So for me, it’s just doing whatever it takes to help our team win, to be an effective player night in, night out."
yeah sound familiar to another teams identity? i think he’ll fit right in.
I agree, thinking that Kreider will come in here late in April and slot right onto the first line is a silly pipe dream. Not to mention that if we really NEED him to do that, during the playoffs, then we are already fucked.
Personally, I do not see him skipping his finals which would mean he isn’t done until a week or two into May. If he does forgo or somehow arrange to take them this summer, I would much much rather see him play the last month of the season in Hartford, which would benefit him greatly next September.
I think its more of an issue of whether he’d be productive. Stepan disappeared last year in the playoffs and he had an entire year to accommodate to the NHL style.
unless this guy is the next Lemieux/Crosby/whatever, he needs to be NHL-ready.
and do you really want to destroy the confidence of this kid by throwing him into the deep end and assuming he can swim.
just doesn’t seem the best way to bring a kid along to the NHL, particularly one you want to be around for a while.
by truebluesince75 on Feb 22, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Stepan disappeared because he’d never played 82 games before… Players coming out of college have generally been more NHL ready than players coming out of juniors ect… of late… he’s played high competition in all of the major tournaments in the world… playing him with the fall back of having a solid defensive team behind him is not going to murder his confidence…
if you won’t trade him for a guy like rick nash, an elite superstar… than he must have elite talent… he’s been an impact player everywhere he’s played thus far… no reason he couldn’t come in and be an impact player… according to the value he’s been given (kreider) i don’t see him being any worse or better than a guy like seguin…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Players coming out of college have generally been more NHL ready than players coming out of juniors ect…
RNH, Landeskog, Larsson, Couturier, Hall, Seguin, Skinner, Fowler, Tavares, Hedman, Duchene, Evander Kane, Kulikov, Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, Luke Schennn, Del Zotto, etc.
They all went to college?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I said the guys who have come out of college and entered right into the league… i didn’t say every college player… McD and Stepan are on our team and both came right out of college… both had successful first years… Matt Read in Philly…
Don’t twist my words… there are 5x more players coming out of juniors than their are coming out of college… and most of those players joined bad teams who had holes to fill immediately… Larsson also played in the SEL…
RNH- EDM (top 10 pick)
Landeskog- COL (top 10 pick)
Larsson (SEL)- NJD (top 10 pick)
Couturier- PHI (top 10 pick)
Hall- EDM (top 10 pick)
Seguin- BOS (top 10 pick) and didn’t play much his rookie year
Skinner- CAR
Fowler has been a terrible plus minus player and generally not good
Tavares – NYI (top 10 pick)
Hedman- TBL (top 10 pick)
…
need i continue… you pointed out all top 10 picks on can’t miss players… duh… that has nothing to do with what i said… college players are generally more ready in a mental and physical capacity than juniors players are… so don’t twist my words
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
do you think mcdonagh benefitted or suffered from playing half a season in the ahl?
neither of those players were thrown into the nhl at the tail end of the season
there is nothing to be gained throwing kreider into the mix playing not top-6 minutes in the big leagues in the final quarter of the season. nothing.
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
McD was a stud in college and dominated from the get go in the AHL… he was also one of that last cuts for the rangers… there is a lot to say he could have stepped right in however the rangers lacked the room to play him… Roszival trade made room for him…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
and kreider has never done a camp with the rangers
he’s never practiced with the team, he’s never skated for torts
again, there’s no benefit to throwing him into the big leagues at the end of the year
if he signs after school is over let him get his feet wet with the whale and get a taste of the pro game
assuming the race for the top spot in the east gets tighter torts is not going to entrust him with big minutes anyway….as well he shouldn’t
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
BIG IF
IF HE SIGNS, I think most of us should be worried about that rather than when we are going to slot him into our big club…
by rain-g-errs on Feb 22, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously, you gotta stop being such a naysayer… you personally are responsible for any rumors of this sort, you bring it up in every thread! Relax!
He has 30 days to sign with us
that is what was said, I am not the first person to bring up this subject and won’t be the last.
so does everyone else…. what’s the big deal because he’s playing in boston and he’s a bruins fan? JVR was a life long rangers fan and signed with the flyers without any issues. it’s all speculation nothing has been reported other than he wanted to get his education.
i hope so
Either way, this kid won’t play with the big club for a while IMO.
Whenever he does finish school hes definitely going to the AHL first.
I have not seen one media report that said that.
Comments on blog sites dont count.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly, the media isn’t sparking anything! In fact, they are just interviewing him like usual.
The ONLY place I have seen any question as to whether or not he will stick with the Rangers or holdout is in the comments section on blogs. A few journalists have only asked if he would sign or stay in school further. That’s it.
if there was any indication at all that he wasn’t going to sign he would have been traded already… cut the shit…
@clalicata17
Yeah, rather than the Rangers brass all going to check him out at the Beanpot, and MSG interviewing him at the Bruins- Rangers game. And stuff like this:
About a year ago, Chris Kreider talked about how when he made it to the NHL, he wanted to make an impact.
Kreider then said that he didn’t think he was ready to go to the NHL and that he was going to stay at Boston College for his junior season.
Kreider, who has 19 goals and 15 assists season at BC, told the NY Times that he made the right move to stay in school:
"I’ve made some pretty big strides. I’m learning from a great coaching staff here, so I’m just trying to take advantage of that. I’m continuing to work on puck protection, getting my shot off in traffic and in tight areas, disguising my shot more, shooting off the rush."
Kreider added that he thinks it would "have put a damper" on his development to have come out and joined the Rangers system this season.
It has been said that Chris Kreider could be a GREAT player. He was mentioned on The Hockey News Hot List.
New York Rangers
✔
@thenyrangers
#NYR Asst. GM Jeff Gorton on @ChrisKreider: “he’s very bright, very coachable…will fit into what we are doing here..team-first atmosphere”
14 Feb 12
Reply
Retweet
from SNYRangersblog.
They also posted this recently, can anyone please watch it and tell me what he says, I am at work!
http://www.snyrangersblog.com/2012/02/17/watch-chris-kreider-interview/
he says
he wants to play for the bruins and is planning to not sign with the rangers so he can play his entire career in boston
he also lamented this site outing his preference to play in beantown and is planning to buy out this site once he gets his first pro contract and turn it into a xxx llama porn site
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Sweet!!! Llama pron!!
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 23, 2012 4:07 AM EST up reply actions
also
mcdonagh got off to a slow start with the whale last season, which everyone involved with the team indicated he needed some time to get his head wrapped around the pro game, he didn’t step in and dominate from the get-go, he built his game up
credit wade redden with helping his devolpment
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
We’ve reached the point where I welcome the trade for Rick Nash just to end this discussion.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
he’s also a defense-man… which requires more responsibility overall especially in our system… as a winger there is much less defensive responsibility
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Defensive responsibility doesn’t begin and end in the 15 feet in front of your net. It’s also being smart with the puck, not making turnovers, knowing who to cover, when to collapse on the crease, how to integrate into the shot-blocking scheme, how the break-outs work, where to be on clearing attempts.
Shit ain’t just skating backwards.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
so basically you think he’s going to forget how to play hockey? you think at BC they don’t work on any of that at? lol
let me play devil's advocate for a minute
what do you, or you, clalicata, see happening with kreider if he signs after school and comes in for march?
give me what your realistic expectation is and what the logic is behind it
i’m curious
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
at worst he could do what hagelin has done… with a much better chance of finishing off richards passes for a change…
on top of that he’d be used accordingly through matchups… giving him more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts (not a crack pot ideology it does happen)…
Nobody is willing to trade anybody of value for a guy who can put the puck in the net, why not add a player without subtracting one?
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Can we answer this after the trade deadline?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
everyone is complaining how we lack scoring depth. IF we don’t play wolski or MZA which i don’t see happening and IF we don’t make a move at the deadline what other options do we have? explain that to me? that’s why this whole talk about kreider even came up.
look at the dynamic scoring between the 3rd and 4th lines is it that hard to have reasonable expectations that he can provide depth?
here's the thing
hagelin had the benefit of playing in the nhl and adjusting the pro game
it’s not realistic to expect kreider to step in as an offensive weapon, and like i said before, this year shouldn’t be looked at as the only chance to contend
you’re asking a college kid to step in an become a legit offensive weapon right off the bat playing for a coach who’s not going to just hand him minutes with his fingers crossed he’s ready
the window just opened, it’s not closing
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
And if he does come in, and doesn’t score immediately (let alone be able to handle everything else), the same people clamoring for him to play will be the same damn people calling him a fucking bust.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
yea because i didn’t battle for MDZ for the past 2 years on here at all… If one person understands the patience of youth it is me, but when the team is plentiful with youth and you have a team which is doing remarkable things you always look to improve… No person who has ever played sports will ever agree that you want to stay status-quot instead you look to improve… i never once said fuck it just throw him in and lets see what he does i said if he’s deemed to be NHL ready numerous times… I also never advocated for morgaging the entire team for Nash… I said if the deal was right and then was accosted with cap implications which mean squat the the rangers point in example Chris Drury, Wade Redden…
I don’t need a lecture on the youth of this team from anybody… the same people who coined the names Del Turnover and Del Zaster are the ones adamantly against trading him… which is hypocritical…
time and time again i’ve been accosted for ways to make this team improves by a select view naming no names… and it’s getting old… nobody will make a trade for boyes, but they’ll trade for knuble… nobody will trade for nash but won’t play kreider… nobody will trade prospects but want to get a star scorer… you have to give up to get in this league… nobody wants nash’s contract, but they’ll sign parise for 7 years in the offseason effectively creating a log jam within our team and a plethora of forwards with no where to play….
Make up your damn minds… people have gone as far to say nash isn’t as good a dubinsky… they should probably be committed…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t mean you specifically, it just seems like fans in general over-hype the hell out of guys, and when the falter, it’s insta-bust (Grachev comes to mind here).
It’s tough because there’s so many little ‘camps’ of people in regards where the future of this team should be directed. The trade for Nash folks, wait for the off-season for Parise, trade for Carter/Ryan folks, do nothing folks, add a depth scorer like Whitney (example, not available now), folks who wonder what position Jeremy Lin plays.
On top of that, you have smaller tribes of people who want to see Staal traded, or MDZ traded, or Dubinsky gone, or don’t trade Kreider (he’s the next Ovechkin! people are pretty special…) trade for more fighters (never have enough Jared Boll!), TRAID GABORIKZ!
I’m sure I’m missing somebody. It’s all so confusing.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
Many people fail to the look at the youth already on the team… every day assesments need to be made as to each player in the organization and where they stand…
who knows how many years like this lundqvist has left… is Anisimov the future on the top line? Is Stepan the future? How many years does gaborik have? Is Tim Erixon going to take a spot? Do we resign Stralman and trade one of our other Defense-man… there are so many questions that you have to look at each day to determine how you move forward…
If we decide Stepan, AA, Cally, Hagelin, Dubi, McD, MDZ, Staal, Girardi, Erixon are going to be here for the next 7 years… we have to fill the holes and trade our assets accordingly holding on to every prospect hurts our chances to improve because eventually some of them are not going to have a spot and are going to be released… This is the problems that people fail to recognize by only focusing on the cap issues…
Our team as a whole is young, our defense is really young… our top 6 is moderately young outside of richards and gab, they are really young… so you have to plan accordingly and i’m sorry if we sign parise… krieder under the current team model, (1 offensive line, 2 offensive line and bottom 2 defensive) we are not going to be seeing him for 3 years unless somebody is moved… whether it’s parise or nash… Stepan AA and Cally are not bottom 6 guys and at dubi’s contract neither is he so if you keep those 4 you have 0 spots in the top 6… for the forseable future…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
i don’t understand how people will sign parise for 7+ years for at least $7mil per, yet they won’t take nash even if he was just handed to us.
IMO Nash is more what we need than parise, big bodied player, Parise has some serious skill but is again on the small side…
@clalicata17
How come nobody has mentioned that Nash is a RW and how that is a bad fit?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Ive only see hi play RW and everywhere has him listed as a RW. Obviously hi being a left handed shot RW is his offwing.
Just wondering if he put up most of his goals as a RW. Much better for a shooter to be on thee offwing.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
what when he scored against us is that what you’re referring to? the majority of his career he has played on the left side.. just because he’s on the right side of the ice doesn’t mean he’s playing right wing.
Gee thanks, I never knew that.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
And TSN lists him a RW primary.
CBJ own website has him listed as RW
BehindTheNet listed as RW
If you have additional knowledge on this I can appreciate that. But I don’t appreciate your condescending tone.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
1) you said everywhere he’s listed as a RW… not true.
2) i’m not giving you an attitude im basically saying whether he plays left or right wing it doesn’t matter.. i think thats the least of everyones worries.
Fair enough, I did say ‘everywhere’ and should have said everywhere I looked.
Sorry, it sounded like you where. But It would matter if you are trying to find a right fit. Cally is better at LW and if Nash scored most of his goals on his offwing that could make a difference as well.
But moot point now, thanks for clarifying.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 23, 2012 4:13 AM EST up reply actions
and even if he was callahan has played left wing they had him playing LW with gabby and richards for a few shifts last night
Not sure you would want to have both wings playing your offside for anything long term. Wont really work on board work and forechecking I would think.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
i was making a point that callahan can play left wing if nash is supposedly a right wing like you’re saying he is. if nash came here everyone assumes he would play with richards and callahan as a left wing… his natural position.
I always thought he was as well but was listening to Botta’s podcast and the mentioned him as a RW. And when I looked around a lot of reference sites have him listed as RW.
BehindtheNet, CBJ website, etc… so supposedly I am not the only one saying that.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
From a CBJ fan
He came up in the league as a LW, but switched to the right side a couple years ago to facilitate playing opposite of Kristian Huselius. He bounced back to the left in brief stints, but has mostly stayed as a RW since players like Prospal and Umberger are better on the left.
He’s stated that he doesn’t mind playing either position, although he’s more comfortable on the left side.
If I remember correctly, he only played LW in the Olympics.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 24, 2012 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
no where in my statement did i call him an offensive weapon. not for the remainder of the season you’re twisting what i said. I said he can provide added depth since he’s fast and athletic.. and you guys want to drop rupp and bickel anyway.
let me reiterate it once more if the team doesn’t make any moves for some reason i would slot kreider in for scoring depth.
we have 7 guys combining for 30 goals that have/are playing on the bottom 6.
the only player i haven’t had patience with at this point is dubinsky and i’m sure most of us had especially for his cap hit. no one is gonna jump the gun on him if he comes up and doesn’t produce on the score sheet.
again… you are twisting words to make an argument with me… Does a winger have much less defensive responsibility than a defense-man… well i’d hope so considering the key word in defense-man is DEFENSE… I didn’t say… well fuck defense as a winger which is basically what you are saying i’ve said… having less responsibility and no responsibility are two different things…
I don’t know how you think a player playing in an elite college system could have no concept of defense… we don’t need 12 shot blockers on offense… gaborik doesn’t block shots… but stepan does… richards doesn’t block shots but cally does…
from your logic kreider is a chicken with his head cut-off because a BU educated person is unable to grasp the concept of defense or breakouts as well as positioning… do you honestly believe you’re statements?
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think Kreider would take offense to you calling him a BU Terrier vs a BC Eagle
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
whatever.. same shit… college is BS
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
“Shit ain’t just skating backwards.”
I laughed real hard, hahahaha.
by rain-g-errs on Feb 22, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, defense is a MUCH tougher position to learn at thze NHL level.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 11:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Forgive me if I confused:
Players coming out of college have generally been more NHL ready than players coming out of juniors ect
Which is can be interpreted as players that played their amateur careers in NCAA and were groomed further in AHL and also players that made the jump right away.
With
I said the guys who have come out of college and entered right into the league… i didn’t say every college player
Which leaves no ambiguity.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
i know he’s a defenseman and it isn’t exactly the same but montreal brought up pk subban at the end of the 2010 season.. played in 2 regular season games. he played pretty well from what i remember that postseason.
everyone says he’s as fast as hagelin and he’s 6’3 225… and as far as production goes what do we really have to lose if we don’t add anyone else?
he’s progressed on his defensive attributes this year which is a big leap from the previous two years where most believed it was non-existent.
it’s arguably harder to be a defense-man in this league especially in the playoffs, but MON used him in certain situations… offensive ones where they could prosper… it’s not out of the realm to do this with a forward…
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Going back a ways but the NYR did exactly that with Tony Amonte, straight from BU to playoffs.
Major issues normally with that kind of jump is speed and size. Kreider is big and fast.
Really though what any of us think is pointless. If Gordie thinks he can handle and they want to get him the expereince and don’t mind buring 1yr of elc then they will look at it. And I trust Gordies opinon on this more than anyone here, sorry.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 22, 2012 12:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the general notion in this past offseason is they wanted him signed… so if thats any indication that he was ready… on top of that his BU coach states his game has taking even bigger steps this year which one can only conclude if they wanted him this past offseason, they are really going to want him now…
if you don’t want to trade for offense, we have to be open to promoting from within otherwise holding on to our prospects is worthless
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
they brought up amonte & weight for that series against the capitals in '91
neither made much of an impact and some fans were hoping they were saviors (i was one) to help turn the tide of the series when the rangers barely put up a fight
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
*doug weight came right out of college too, btw*
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
just an fyi
but it was never of much value to amonte or weight
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
yea cause they were terrible NHLer’s
@clalicata17
by Clalicata17 on Feb 22, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
was talking in regards to their playoff careers
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
And I have my doubts that the handful of playoff games they got coming straight out of college altered whether they’d be successful NHLers.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
couple of problems
1) this was 22 years ago, the game and development was much different in 1991 than it is in 2012
2) it didn’t damage them, but in the end it didn’t really make a difference; amonte didn’t become a 30 goal scorer in 91-92 because of his two game cup of playoff coffee, he became a 30 goal scorer spending his first couple of years playing with messier and being given a chance to blossom on a first line
on the flip side, doug weight was continously misused until he was dealt to edmonton
i doubt either player would credit that two game playoff appearance as a major contributing factor to their success
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
That’s what I mean. Those two games were probably inconsiquential to the players they became.
Throwing Kreider into playoff games probably won’t affect him either way, but it could affect the team if he’s not ready for that level of play.
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 22, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
bingo
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
As we’ve seen, it doesn’t take much in the NHL game for even a small mistake to lead to a goal against. While not a huge problem for some teams, it’s a giant one for a Rangers team that doesn’t score that many goals and relies on the 2-1 win. Look at last night: it took a complete brain-fart on the part of 3 players for Malkin to break loose and score, but other than that, he didn’t threaten all that much.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
And that included a 12-year, Conn Smyth, Stanley Cup winning veteran. Not a kid in his first NHL action.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
derp
that reply was meant for clacliata, not you
my bad
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Guys...
was it just me or did it seem like in both the Chicago game and the Pittsburgh game that the opposing teams were outworking us and getting to most of the loose pucks?…I mean the opposition was playing like the 2 points meant something and the Rangers were playing like they are very comfortable looking down from their perch?…well, they better wake up and realize that the perch is not a permanent fixture unless they bring it every game like they have for most of the season thusfar…
Since the all-star break they’ve played like they are writing checks with their play that their hype can’t cash. There’s been a number of just UGLY games, even the wins, where they’ve just been dead. Better now, I guess, than near the end of the year, but Torts could do them some good by righting this thing soon and making sure it doesn’t happen again, because play like this is what gets #1 seeds beaten by #8s come playoff time.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
more offense
how bad is vinny lacaviler’s contract. tampa bay got a 1st for steve downie yesterday.i’d be glad to send a 1st and a prospect for him[not kreider] if and only if tampa ate some of his contract. our 1st this year will be in the high 20’s
by moodyblueshirt on Feb 22, 2012 12:21 PM EST reply actions
he would assassinate Artem Anisimov the minute he got on the team.
no thanks
by rain-g-errs on Feb 22, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
1 week to go
if Sather is going to do something I wish he would just do it already. I’m sure the team thinks about it too.
Shoot the puck Barry!!!
Kick save AND A BEAUTY by Giacomin!
well the longer he waits the lower the price goes is the hope… because teams may get desparate to move players… it also could work the otherway as more buyers could appear with better assets and drive the price up, or you could see teams like the flyers setting the market for a d-man such as kubina with a 2nd and a 4th which is a high value for an older player who is a rental… just my opinion tho
@clalicata17
Columbus just got a Goaltender, hmm this is interesting
TSN is reporting the Phoenix Coyotes have acquired center Antoine Vermette from the Columbus Blue Jackets.
TSN is reporting the Blue Jackets will receive a pair of draft picks — a second-round pick in 2012 and a fifth-round choice in 2013 — as well as a minor-league player. The Columbus Dispatch is reporting the player to be goaltender Curtis McElhinney.
pieces are going to start falling… which lowers the likelihood LA gives up a tender… which means bernier was never on the table
@clalicata17
MeElhinney…I think he’s a reclamation project from Anaheim? if I’m not mistaken. Not exactly going to play for them right away, but maybe they’re hoping they can develop him.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
the evolution of chris kreider
when he was drafted:
who the hell is this guy, a high school junior? great, another bust of a pick by sather
after he got to bc:
dominating at the college level is no big deal, he needs to prove it playing against real competition
after the world juniors gold medal game:
wow this kid can play
after three years at bc:
ZOMG BRING HIM IN NOW HES BETTER THAN MIIK BOSSY
say hello to your fans, internet jesus:
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Yup, he was probably one of the most pure goal scorers ever. His goals-per-game career average was 0.762 and he had 9! consecutive seasons of 50+ goals (5 of which were actually 60+ goals) and if not for a bad back that forced him to retire after only 10 seasons could’ve just obliterated the goal-scoring record books.
Homo homini lupus est - Human beings are wolves to each other
he does
i hated his guts and wished he was on the rangers as a kid
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
Recent play hasn't been great
I think that the Rangers haven’t actually been playing very good hockey starting from the Bruins game. The two wins they’ve picked up were because Hank stole that game in Boston and because Columbus is the worst team in the league and the way the Rangers played was adequate to beat them (although going to OT should never have happened). When they had to play more quality competition (Pittsburgh and Chicago) they lost and were never really in the game.
The two wins have really masked that the Rangers haven’t been playing consistently for 4-5 games now. I’m hoping that last night’s performance coming so close on the heels of the Chicago debacle will force them to recognize this and make adjustments (especially with NJ racing up the standings so suddenly, blech).
Homo homini lupus est - Human beings are wolves to each other
sets up a huge matchup monday, i hope they don’t look past the next 2 games though. they should win them both but isles playing better and always get up for games against the rangers.
Shoot the puck Barry!!!
Kick save AND A BEAUTY by Giacomin!
No way the Rangers will lose to the Isles
and doubt it against the Sabres, Miller hasn’t been as sharp lately.
I think there’s a famous quote for this:
“Famous last words.”
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
If they do
its the Rangers are losing or tied after 1 jumping off a cliff time.
Figured these folks would come out of the woodwork, I’m just surprised it took this friggin’ long.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
a couple of more shutouts against the Rangers and you will be the poster child to get Nash. the shutouts against appear to be more frequent lately.
Games like that aren’t about 1 player. When this team plays like absolute dog-shit, it’s a full blown, 4 alarm, all engines go, rip-roaring, “everybody IN the fail boat” team effort to suck. 1 player isn’t changing that.
Rick Nash Banter
"Oils like he's getting a himmer!"
I know what you’re saying (Kevin, we need the cliff picture please, love that pic, lol) but a “special” player can make a difference. If Sather can keep Kreider and MDZ out of the deal then Nash is going to be here. he will take the pressure off other players and open up space. The Ranger goals are becoming scarce which means Sather’s desire for Nash goes up. I love our team. Love it. But realistically? they need a little more juice on the offensive end.
Been watching hockey for over 50 years..die hard Ranger fan… and I can’t get excited about any of this now. Just joking around…we all know, it don’t mean squat until the playoffs start…it’s a whole new season then.. and right now, my confidence level for the Rangers is not good …. they need a power play …. if they don’t find one … they have no shot … even if Lundqvist plays his ass off. Nash, no Nash…It doesn’t matter… He won’t make a difference… they have to find something from within.
I respect your opinion but when have beaten the PP to death. Very unlikely that the PP will be the difference. Of course it is important, every aspect in a game is, but some more than others. If your special teams break even (pk+pp) then it is 5v5 that makes the difference.
80% of the game is played 5v5, an increase of 5% on the pp would amount to less then 2 extra goals in a 7 game series. If you lose a 7 game series because of that you can bet they failed more at 5v5.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 23, 2012 4:18 AM EST up reply actions
If you don’t have a PP…then other teams aren’t afraid to go one down on you…and 5 on 5 they become overly agressive…and beat you down…you need a power play to “scare” the other teams. If your power play has no power…you jut don’t make it through the playoffs… in my humble opinion.
Again, I agree it is an area that needs to be improved but to make a statement such as ‘they have no shot’ and ‘if Lundqvist plays his ass off…It doesn’t matter, He won’t make a difference’ is a bit overblown, no?
We could say the same about the NYR, their PK is so good that they aren’t afraid to go down one man. And its a bit situational, no? No team trailing in a game will want to be a man down for 2min. No team would like to potentiality lose momentum. And you are assuming that this hypothetical team has a good PK.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 24, 2012 4:42 AM EST up reply actions
BIP…good points .Here’s the bottom line…if the playoffs started today…and the PP was as anemic as it is…??? Scares me…trying to keep my expectations down. Big game tonight , big follow up tomorrow too. Two good games…they stay pat, two bad games…the typical panic will set it and something crazy will happen…aka another poor trade. UGH. I hate this crap. But at least we’re not worrying about just sneaking into the playoffs…although,… let’s not even go there.LOL
If Sean Avery fought Rick Nash at the Nassau Coliseum and nobody was there to see it would both of them end up on teams that aren’t the Rangers?
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter, Writer for On The Banks
Huh?
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"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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we need Kevin Nash
Rangers FTW!
by BleedsRangerBlue on Feb 22, 2012 5:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
nWo?
@joereiter
"You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a
mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?" - Lord General Sather
"Nobody knows anything" - William Goldman
I think that because we are all “New Yorkers” we overreact to every single fucking thing.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
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