Patience
by Moshe52792 on Feb 3, 2012 4:43 PM EST
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PrintThe New York Rangers have been one of the most positive surprises this NHL season. Going into the year, most people were placing them anywhere from 4th-10th in the conference. A playoff team, but nothing more than that.
Whatever the reason may be, this team has exceeded all of our expectations. Even with some of our biggest contributors last year (Dubi and AA) struggling more than any of us would have imagined, we are still somehow the best team in the league. (PPG wise).
While that is definitely worth of excitement, we need to remember where this team stands in their development. This is only the beginning. Most of of our guys are young or in their prime, and with Dubi/AA/Richards struggling, this team is only going to get better. With the likes of Kreider, Thomas, Erixon, Mcilrath, Miller, and maybe a few others coming up in the next year or two, it gives us cheap options to improve the team.
Now let's talk about the future.
After this season, Prust, Mitchell, Fedotenko, Eminger, Woywitka, Wolski, Stralman, MDZ, Bickel, and Biron are all free agents. For argument's sake, lets assume Feds, Woywitka, Wolski, and Bickel and are not resigned. From that point, the other six are all brought back.
That could give us a potential lineup, assuming certain contract amounts, of...
FORWARDS - Artem Anisimov ($1.875m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m) / Carl Hagelin ($0.875m) / Brad Richards ($6.666m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m) / Chris Kreider ($1.300m) / Brandon Dubinsky ($4.200m) / Christian Thomas ($1.000m) / John Mitchell ($1.200m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Brandon Prust ($1.200m) / Michael Rupp ($1.500m)
DEFENSEMEN - Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m) / Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Mike Sauer ($1.250m) / Michael Del Zotto ($2.300m) / Anton Stralman ($1.000m) / Steve Eminger ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS - Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Martin Biron ($0.875m)
BUYOUTS: Chris Drury ($1.666m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,733,334; BONUSES: $712,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $6,566,666
NOW. That number looks enticing. Enticing enough to entertain the thoughts of trading for or signing one of those big names. Parise, Weber, Suter, Green, Ryan, or whoever else you guys like to imagine on the Rangers. But, before we get carried away, we have to remember that bringing in another big contract is extreme short-sighted.
With Anisimov, Stepan, Hagelin, McDonagh, and Sauer all being restricted free agents two years from now, we need to be conservative in our spending in order to insure that we can keep all those guys. When you think about it, that 6.5 mil, plus the 1.6 relief we get from Drury's buyout hit ending, could potentially all be used up by giving these guys raises.
So sure, next year we can afford a Parise-type player. But what about the years after that? It might end up with us having to trade away some of our core guys in order to stay cap compliant, and at some point that signing isn't worth it.
CONCLUSIONS - I am fine with making trades that improve this team. I don't believe anyone is un-tradeable. I am fine with trading my favorite players if it makes this team better. HOWEVER, I realize that there is a salary cap, and there are repercussions if you fail to look to the future. This team is only starting to emerge. This team will continue to improve over the next couple of years, and it would be unwise to risk that future because of the allure of a big name player. PATIENCE
Disclaimer - The final point I will make specifically refers to one player. Parise. If we could potentially sign him for less than 7 mil, I would be more than happy to bring him in. It would result in us trading Dubinsky for picks/prospects, and some slick cap maneuvering. If we could replace guys like Rupp for guys making 500-600k, it would be enough to keep all of our kids, and swap Dubinsky for Parise AND picks.
Thoughts?
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I like it. I don't think we get Parise.
A team like Toronto would be happy to pay $8 million for Parise. The Wild are looking for another big forward also.
Simply put, I doubt Parise would come here for under $7 million unless he truly wants to win here and thinks we have a good chance to win. If it comes down to money on July 1st he’s not coming here that’s for sure.
"Anson Carter is a highly skilled, versatile player who we feel will play a very significant role on our team this season. He is a very intelligent player who brings a strong presence and leadership qualities." - Sather
"He's the best first passer in the game. He moves the puck up exceptionally."- Sather on signing Wade Redden
"If you look through the NHL, there aren't many players with his type of ability; he has superstar ability."- Sather on signing Vladimir Malakhov
by RichieToGabbySCORE on Feb 3, 2012 5:21 PM EST reply actions
If it goes beyond money and we are in around $7-7.5m he could sign. He is someone worth moving Dubi to make room for. Also keep in mind that when those players need to be resigned 3 years from now, the cap may have increased by a couple of million, and Gabby’s time will be up. Gabs could be resigned lowed, or replaced by a cheaper player. We have to look ahead but don’t get too far ahead because you never know what will happen in the next 2.5 years.
good point on gaby I missed this and posted below
I feel that he will be gone after his contract is up because a team will offer him a bad deal that he can’t refuse. By then, hopefully stepan can become a true number-one center, because I don’t see Richards as anything more than the second line center.
I’m banking on Kreider filling gaby’s niche in a cost-controlled fashion.
@btown46
Gabby is not a FA until summer 2014
The Rangers’ key RFAs will need raises after next season (Hagelin, Anisimov, Stepan, Sauer, McDonagh) before Gabby becomes a free agent.
Face it, signing Parise or Suter means dumping one, possibly two important players with decent sized contracts in their prime. That would mean Duby, Cally, Girardi or Staal. Of course the Rangers could opt to not resign two or three of the players listed above.
Either way it seems like a lot to sacrifice to add only one player, albeit a very good one.
That is true but basically I was saying that it ramps up over the next 2-3 years and we have no idea how things play out that far ahead. Most of the players you mentioned as RFAs will be coming off of their entry level contracts so they shouldn’t be commanding $4m contracts or anything, they should be getting contracts like AA’s current one.
The same year that Gabby is free, so is Cally, Hank, Boyle, Rupp, and Girardi. Who knows which will be kept or not and at what salary.
Signing Parise, Suter, or Weber will probably mean sacrificing ONE of those $4m contracts. If trading Dubi for a pick gives us room for Parise, or Girardi gets us Weber, you do it in a heartbeat. We do not have anyone in our system, core players and prospects, as good as that. Weber, anyway.
Ok, after reading what you and Caerid posted later on, I see where you guys are coming from. Signing Parise is certainly not a ridiculous notion and it could be done.
You do have to admit though that signing Parise does have the potential to place the Rangers in Salary Cap Hell for the 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons. Especially 13-14, signing Parise for about $7MM would mean tying up over $47MM on only 10 players (granted one of those ten is Rupp).
Next year not a big deal. Year after, yeah, a few guys are going to need raises. But, as most have stated, if Parise (or a likewise other top-scoring winger comes here) Dubinsky becomes a cap-casualty. With that in mind, everything would work until the 14-15 season where Cally, Gab, Hank Girardi etc. are UFAs. along with other RFAs. At that point, we’d have to hope guys like Erixon/McIlrath/Kreider are ready to take those roles, so either the older vet guys take a haircut to stay on the team, or they sign more lucrative deals elsewhere and we fill in with others.
Exactly.
It would definitely result in losing Dubinsky, but if guys like Rupp are replaced with guys with minimum deals, and Sather stays cheap with the RFAs (which he will) the money will work.
And really, if anything Hank and Gabs could take less by then.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Unless Hank has a drop-off in play (significant) I think he’d get a retirement contract at that point (all depends on the CBA, but I think he’d get at least something that would keep him here, especially to help any new kids along. Imagine another Swedish goalie prospect? I think Hank would relish helping him along). He needs to get paid as we don’t have a replacement in waiting. With the other guys, we do.
Well, he’s making like 6.5 a year. Even if he continues making that much, the number is relatively smaller compared to the salary cap.
He’s not going to get a raise, and I can’t see him saying no to 5.5 a year instead of 6.5.
Give Hank 1 less, Gabby 2 less, and find someone 1 mil cheaper to replace Rupp.
Right there is 4 mil to play with.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I would be nice to see it
but, I don’t see it happening. There are teams who have massive cap room, and can end up giving him $8-9 million (Florida, Colorado, and Nashville…although they may not be able to put the numbers together to keep Weber and Suter).
"Fart like a man! It's hockey!"
"A lack of faith shown can go a long, long way to failure."
Biron is a UFA this off-season, and should get a pay raise. $1 million shouldn’t be out of the question. I would think a little more ($1.5) given the way that he’s played, and the impact it’s had on Lundqvist’s ability to get rest and not be relied upon so heavily. If Lundvist (finally) plays as well this postseason as he does in the regular season, the case can be made that Biron indirectly affected that possibility.
Prust will be in line for a raise as well. Using Rupp as a measuring stick, Prust might be able to command $1.5 million on the open market. Whether the Rangers decide that’s too much, I don’t know. I hope not.
I don’t think the Rangers need to go after any defensemen. If everyone’s healthy next year, with Erixon coming up the Rangers will have what I think will be the best defense in the league, hand-down.
Kreider should be on the team, and I think that instantly makes Richards more productive points-wise. Unfortunately I don’t see Stepan and Gaborik being separated (I say unfortunately because while I’m sure I’m in the minority, I don’t see the “chemistry” that people proclaim exists between Stepan and Gaborik. Has Step put up good numbers? Yes. But I don’t see what all the fuss is about, especially to the point that he would be labelled untouchable…. But I digress), so Richards having a guy who thinks score-first should benefit his game. I would like to see Zuccarello up next season on the line with those two, as I could see them generating a lot of chances. Richards prefers a lefty on his right wing anyways, so that should make him more comfortable.
Oddly, this is the first time that I think the Rangers can do better in-house going into the off-season. Parise is a monster and I’d love him on the Rangers, but his salary would, as you suggested, remove a lot of the flexibility to re-sign the three young guys on defense. I’d actually rather keep them together than sign Parise. That sounds odd, even to me. But there it is.
Even if Dubinsky was moved in order to make room for Parise, I think keeping Dubi gives the Rangers what could be the best bottom-9 in the league, assuming what I stated above happens, with Dubinsky- Anisimov- Callahan and Rupp (or whoever)- Boyle-Prust.
As for your headline “Patience”, I hope that’s what the Rangers exercise next year with regards to Miller. I’m one for the Detroit model. Let them learn. Rather play them too late than too early. Miller should do his second year in the OHL, then get at least half a season in Hartford. Mcilrath needs to see a season and a half down there.
In conclusion- yes.
Hence it being a disclaimer.
You should read the rest of the article too :)
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
it was more of an in general comment than directed only to you. i thought it was a solid post but im sick of ranger fans thinking getting parise is even remotely possible. talk about him has been going on since last year and has been gaining a little momentum the last couple weeks and im just tired of it
by nyrangerfan521 on Feb 3, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
It’s entirely possible depending on many scenarios. I also think that he’s become a default sub-word for “top LW scoring talent” anytime trades or free-agency is brought up. It doesn’t necessarily mean people are saying “we’re getting Parise and that’s it,” it’s more of “we need scoring talent on the LW, and Parise is my best example.”
Aye.
And I specifically stated that I while I strongly believe bringing in another star is not the way to go, I would be willing to make an exception if it were Parise.
I never said we would get him, or anything of the sort.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
do you remember how everybody was going apeshit over Brad Richards on july 1? Parise is a better player than Richards and its not really that close. hes gonna have a bunch of teams throwing boatloads of money at him. if you think the Rangers will be able to sign him at a manageable price then you are living in a fantasy world
by nyrangerfan521 on Feb 4, 2012 3:16 AM EST up reply actions
If he could be had for 7 mil, thats manageable.
It’s 3 mil extra than Dubi, and if we replace Rupp with a cheaper guy its only 2 mil extra.
We could make it work.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Fair enough.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Don't forget in 2 seasons
Gaborik will either be gone or brought back on a smaller cap hit…hopefully Kreider can fill his niche in a cost-controlled fashion.
@btown46
I think you are overvaluing Kreider. I hope you are right, but Gabby is an elite player, a number 3 pick. Kreider may project out to be a solid first liner but Grachev probably did too (was that the projection 2-3 seasons ago?)
Hopefully Kreider’s game can complement Gabby or Richards, though. I have high hopes for him.
Grachev projected to be a first line for the same reason EC and Dubi projected to be our first liner centers…..because we on BB overvalue all Ranger prospects and players for the most part.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
mhm
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Grachev was a 3rd rd pick, was never projected to be 1st line anything. He had a great season in juniors that made people think maybe but it didn’t happen.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 4, 2012 4:07 AM EST up reply actions
Yes that happens on here
but just because it happens doesn’t mean it can’t be true for young players like Stepan, AA, or Kreider. Although their ceilings are all probably in between 1st line and 2nd line. Which isn’t bad, we would just need some depth which is what the Rangers have in Cally, Dubi, Hags, and Miller who can all take care of the 2nd and 3rd lines. Add in Richards and that’s a top 6 right there.
And no one in their right mind projected EC to be a 1st liner.
In essence, stay with the kids and stop trying to get rid of them for a trade or big signing.
"Just reload my weapon, you know?" - Artem Anisimov
"We are going to come to Philadelphia, and we are going to win." - Mr.Sather
"I'm not a screamer or yeller. If I would try to scream and yell at people, it's not what I'd naturally do. So if I tried to do that, it would be awkward, I think." - Eli Manning
Aye.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
fair
no, I don’t think he will score 40 goals, but I do hope he will be an offensive threat with great speed and a good shot….I’m hoping that by then, some of the other players who fit into the long term plans will grow into scoring roles such as Step and AA.
If not, we will need to sign more scoring from outside the system if we can’t get Gaby back at a reasonable price.
@btown46
That’s a lot to ask for, huh? Asking a rookie or second year player to replace someone who scores 25% of our goals?
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
The Kreider hype is unbelievable. Makes Grachev look like the 2nd coming of Daniel Goneau.
Lots of folks are going to be plenty disappointed when Kreider doesn’t break Selanne’s rookie goal-scoring record. I say that sarcastically, maybe.
It’s not sarcastic.
You hype of these guys so much, and if he only puts up 30 points people will call him a bust. It’s sad really.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
jesus fucking christ i never knew
teemu selanne had 76 goals and 56 assists for 132 points his rookie year in the NHL for the jets..
holy mother of god that is insane!
whoa man
I’m talking like gaby’s niche in 2 and a half years…by then i’m guessing he won’t be as dominant , and we will have some more scoring depth from guys like Step, AA and hopefully others.
I’m not really a hard core homer, but it doesn’t hurt to have faith in your top forward prospect.
@btown46
Far enough.
You gotta replace the big shots sometime :)
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
anyone else...
nauseated by the thought of dubinsky in a devils jersey??? not saying i wouldn’t make the trade…just sayin…
Watch hockey, brew beer!"
I didn’t say trade him to the Devils. I said for picks/prospects if we sign Parise as a free agent.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I'm sure Dubinsky get sick of thinking about that
"Just reload my weapon, you know?" - Artem Anisimov
"We are going to come to Philadelphia, and we are going to win." - Mr.Sather
"I'm not a screamer or yeller. If I would try to scream and yell at people, it's not what I'd naturally do. So if I tried to do that, it would be awkward, I think." - Eli Manning
well said
With all the depth the Rangers have in the system at forward and D, patience is the best option.
Forwards: Kreider, Miller, Borque, Thomas, St. Croix, etc. We need probably 2 to pan out over 2 years to fill in Fedetanko and one other (maybe Mitchell, Prust or Rupp’s spot?)
D: McIlrath, Erixon, Bickel, Pashin, Valetanko, etc. All fighting for basically 1 spot.
I’d almost venture to suggest we’re finally in the amazing “moneyball” position to keep developing from within and selling some pieces high to keep fedding the development pool.
Patience – we are on the cust of having a great team for a looong time.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
wow, my grammar sucks ...
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em." - Yogi
As I was saying above, we probably have found a few diamonds in the rough and used our picks very wisely, but there is a difference between a solid 1-2nd liner and a truly elite player.
Use our homegrown guys for our core, develop depth, and then use some of that depth to fill in the holes with elite players.
I am not advocating a crazy trade this month. Far from it. If we do anything beyond prospect/picks for an expiring contract (like Ruutu, Smyth, whoever) I will be disappointed.
I am just saying that this summer or next summer, we have the flexibility if we want to trade one core player and a prospect or two and make room for a single big signing, it is not selling out and giving up on building homegrown.
Also keep in mind that those young guys you list take years to develop. I would be surprised to see more than 2 of them play a full season with us next year. Some may be ready in 2 seasons or 3. Meanwhile Hank, Gabby, Richards aren’t getting any younger and are in their prime now/next 2 years.
What is the cost of say, Parise? We are complaining about losing flexibility in the future. If you agree with what I am saying , that we build a framework and a core from within and complement it with some elite FA/trades, then you have to see that you eventually have to make tough decisions with your core players… Kreider, Miller, Bourque, JAM, Thomas, St C, etc…. These guys may be competing with Cally, Dubi, and AA for roster spots in 3 years. Not Parise, if we signed him. Maybe some of our prospects will end up being better than some of our current core and eventually push them out!
Ugh, dunno how I got off on so many tangents, sorry for rambling…
That’s pretty much where I’m at right now in what you said in the first few sentences. In the current age of sports, dynasties are a forgotten relic of days gone by. Sure, there may be a few (Yankees when they buy all the good players, Basketball when you have the likes of Kobe/Shaq together type of shit), but it’s ultimately rare.
At some point, this team will most likely do a quantity for quality type of trade that nets us a few players who can really put the team over the hump to win the Cup. Especially with how Henrik is playing. It’s quite rare for a goalie to play at an all-world level past their mid-30s, especially butterfly goalies (shit wrecks you from the waist-down) with lots of mileage. Most of our top guys are right around peak age with the exception of Stepan and McDonagh.
Does getting Parise make sense? Ultimately I would think so. Next 2 years only guys really needing a raise are MDZ (he will NOT get much from Sather, book it. I’m guessing enough to take him to the last year of RFA status so he can’t test FA) McDonagh who I can see getting at least 3 over a long-term contract, and Stepan, who will probably get around what McD gets.)
After 13-14 it gets real interesting. Hank, Gabby, Cally, and Girardi are up. I’d guess Henrik gets another similar deal, Cally maybe a small raise (really depends on his scoring), Gabby…I would hope would be replaced by then by a guy like Kreider. Maybe he comes back at a lower rate. Girardi will be replaced by guys like Erixon/McIlrath, and I see him leaving for a BIG contract with another team.
The money is there. Obviously the new CBA will throw a few wrinkles into the system (I think the biggest change we’ll see is that cap hits will be weighted by something like the 3 largest salary years of each contract to negate all of these floater 1, 2, 3m years at the end of contracts where a player will either retire or be traded to a team looking to hit the cap floor but only pay like half that in salary.) But I think the next 3 years are our prime years to make a run at it. During that time, draft a good goalie prospect to develop.
I don’t think we will get Parise but if we do, then it does not become a priority to re sign Gabby in 2014 and you figure Krieder, Thomas have made some impact by then.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000. and that’s the point. Parise can fit next year, through 2013/14, and then Gaby’s contract is up after 2013/14 and then you assess what you want to do. this is a Cup type team right now and Parise could well put them over the top. Love the core but love the Cup more. Maybe more than one if you get Parise. I don’t care what the league and the Devs are saying, they are in big financial trouble as those “advance income distributions” are disguised loans. This is BR in Dallas all over again. If Parise’s willing to come, and I have a friend with knowledge that he just may, you have to try and get him. The Rangers have everything Parise wants: financial stability, (young) contender, stays in the division, etc. I’m not saying he’s coming but to totally dismiss it is naive (to relish the core too much and that Parise is too expensive).
As long as he comes for 7 mil instead of 8.5, it’s all good.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Good write-up Moshe, and good work on the Cap/Roster. I agree with you, with some caveats that I obviously posted above^^
I highly doubt Thomas makes the roster next year. Also, people would do themselves a favor by not hyping the hell out of Kreider. I’m excited about him, but I see way too many folks thinking once he’s done with college he’ll immediately join the NHL club (I’ve seen plenty even say for the play-offs) and rip off 30 goal seasons like it’s nothing.
Not sure if you read me as hyping Kreider above… I’ve been one for tempering expectations, especially those being laid upon him. I’m glad he didn’t come out this year, and I would rather he play a full year in Hartford.
That said, the Rangers need an offensive-minded player to complement Richards. Callahan is not the answer on Richards’ wing. Because of the dearth of pure offense on the big club, I don’t think they’ll let Kreider develop in the AHL, which I think has benefited players with his size/ skillset like Neal and Pacioretty. If he becomes the type of player that they are in 2-3 seasons, I think that would be great for the Rangers. But as an organization, they have to consider which players they have available to maximize Richards’ talent while still in his prime. At this point, it seems like Kreider is the best candidate, unless they can find someone through trade or free agency… and I don’t really see that happening.
Exactly. As NY fans we do this to a fault. It’s great to be excited, but at this point if he comes in and struggle for a year, you’ll have people saying “he’s already 23 and he’s only putting up 40 points” and they’ll call him a bust.
Similar type thing is happening to Anisimov.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
No Hoggo, just in general, here and many other places.
I’m excited about him, but I temper my expectations as to how much he’ll provide for us in the immediate future. It’s also why I’m more in the boat of finding a top-scorer (FA/trade) sooner, rather than later, and let Kreider properly develop so he’s not ruined by pressure/expectations. Figure he should be ready to fully contribute once Gaborik’s contract is up.
Similar type thing is happening to Anisimov.....
and Dubinsky
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Exactly.
He has one good year and now he’s expected to be a 30 goal scorer. With all his struggles he’s on pace for like 40 points…
a bad season sure, but not as bad as people are making it out to be..
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I agree about Anisimov. As much as I like him, I don’t think he’s ready to be a top-6er. Last year he had to fill that spot, and did so admirably, but I think he’s better served as a third-liner.
I think people placed a lot of unfair expectations on Dubinsky when he first came up and played with Jagr. Otherwise, I actually think he’s developed quite well. This season I have no idea what’s going on with him offensively, but then I’m sure neither does he.
Well, I think he’s ready to be a top-6 guy.
As far as statistical measures go, a guy who can put up 45+ points and play a two-way game is easily a 2nd line player.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Also, what’s making this type of thing tough, is that, for whatever deficiencies this team has, it’s really hard to not root for most of the guys on this team, especially with the team finally having some consistent success.
In almost every year of my fandom (unhealthy obsession as some call it) there’s always a couple of guys on teams I root for that for one reason or another, I couldn’t care less about. Many of those years, there’s guys that for one reason or another, I actually loathe to the point of hoping they get an incurable foot fungus. Not this year.
Look at a guy like Dubinsky. Worst hockey of his career at this point in my opinion…but I like the guy, I want him to do better, to succeed, to score, to win a Cup with the Rangers. Everybody loves AA. He’s just an affable guy who probably cries if somebody steps on a bug. But I want him here, to win, to succeed.
Is it the fact that he is playing the worst hockey of his career or that he is not scoring? I mean this past week he was almost gomez-like in his invisibility on the ice. But before that he seemed gritty and was getting pts. Was last year an aberation like Boyles productivity was? You put the guy in for 1st and second line minutes due to injuries and he puts some points up because of the extra ice time? Could that be attributed to Dubinsky’s success last year?
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Well, than the answer is simple.
Give him top 6 ice time. Anisimov too. Torts needs to be more patient with these line combos.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
This is the beauty of having a deep, talented team. The coach cannot be patient. If AA or Dubi aren’t producing, someone else is, and that player will get the ice time. Once AA and Dubi show signs of trending up again (and they will) inevitably, someone else will slow down and move down the pecking order.
These aren’t the old Rangers, where, no matter what, Petr Nedved had to be the first line center regardless of production because there was no one else. There is someone else now and the Rangers are a better team because of it. Competition for places on the team is a good thing, it eventually forces great athletes to perform at even greater levels.
I agree that competition is a good thing, just Torts goes too far sometimes.
My point is this. If a guy like Anisimov is struggling to find his scoring touch, but is playing well otherwise, putting him on a line with Rupp and Prust is not going to help him score. It’s going to hurt his offensive game more.
I agree that line-up changes are necessary, but not too quickly. AA-Step-Gabby was an amazing line for 40 games, and then they don’t score for 2-3 and Torts changes everything up. I don’t agree with that.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
great post my friend and I know where you are coming from. but when you have a chance to win the Cup then you have to go for it. I’m not saying to gut the team but here’s what I would do: get Smyth on the cheap (3rd round plus a low end prospect). Smyth will be a true rental as he wants to go back to the Oilers and retire there. Put him on 1st line LW and the #1 PP for this year. Guaranteed their scoring goes up and improved PP, just enough to matter and make a difference. They can clear enough cap space without trading a roster player. Then clear the decks for Parise by trading Dubi to the Oilers for high picks/prospects to clear the appropriate space. And trade AA for picks/prospects if necessary for additional cap space if needed. WW comes off the cap, Drury’s cap hit goes down $2M next year, etc. Kreider and maybe even Miller are here next season. Everyone is under contract next year except for a few RFAs like MDZ. Only FAs are Prust and Biron who can be re-signed at approx what they are being paid now (Feds probably not re-signed). It could work to get Parise. He’s an elite talent and a great 2 way player that fits Torts’ system to a “T.” That’s my opinion.
stopped reading at
here’s what I would do: get Smyth on the cheap
‘Cuz I don’t care what YOU would do
plus the whole post looks like Sudoku
by MasterOfPuppets on Feb 4, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Seems foolish that you would stop reading at the mention of something that we are supposedly giving a good amount of consideration to.
seems more foolish to put oneself in the not only Sather’s suit but in Tambellini’s suit as well.
This taken from previous post
If Parise’s willing to come, and I have a friend with knowledge that he just may
I suppose this “friend” has some “knowledge” of whatever as well
debate is fine
saying one knows what to do, claiming inside knowledge based on anonymous sources, well that just makes me disregard any further statements
by MasterOfPuppets on Feb 4, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
No I agree with that. I mean, I play tennis with Sather, Hitchcock, Burke, and a few others, so i KNOW what they are all planning. Right??
The “internet insider” is almost as bad as the “internet tough guy”. So I can see writing off any comments claiming an inside track. That isn’t what you quoted though ;-)
My Bad
Originally I was just trying to be nice (sort of) not call him out on anything.other than the statement
the precursor here’s what I would do implies that his opinion is one of substance
the statement get Smyth on the cheap is an achievement easily rendered by poster
conclusion – having seen no evidence of either the former or the latter
why should I contemplate the word jumble further
by MasterOfPuppets on Feb 4, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
again which you are entitled to but then again you don’t know what I know.
so I guess your statements are irrelevant as well.
doesn’t mean Parise will sign here but that’s the “buzz” amongst some NHL player agents.
now, to show you how “fair” I am I will say that just maybe info like that is out there to drive up the price.
BR had that dog and pony show for one reason: to make the Rangers pay more.
he was never going anywhere else but here but his agents had to “concoct” something to generate interest from other teams.
turns out BR was talking to Torts all throughout last season.
better format?
of course my statements are irrelevant
thanks for unjumbling your post
I read your “friend” is an NHL agent blah blah blah
by MasterOfPuppets on Feb 4, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Great analogy
Because Sudoku isn’t a numbers puzzle.
The issue with Smyth is how good is he really?
He’s he be here for like 30 games, might put up .6 PPG, and bring a nice veteran presence.
Greta, but not worth losing a guy like AA.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Who knows if he’ll fit on the first line?
We thought Wolski would, we thought Dubi would, we thought BR would play with Gabby, we thought the pack line would work.
We can’t just assume guys will mesh.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
remember what he did for the Islanders? he could do that for us. short and sweet stay to help us with the cup run. he’s perfect for our team.
Perfect at a certain cost.
I’m worried that we will give up too much.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
He seems to be good at trades, so let’s hope so.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I’d be fine with that.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
BUT it has to be someone that Edmonton sees potential in for their young team, like MZA or a defender like.. I dunno, Bickle or something
I keep saying a 3rd rounder which is useful at least so it’s some value like you say. Smyth will be going back to the Oilers anyway.
Absolutely.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Could you imagine if next year is?
Kreider-Stepan-Gabby
Parise-BRich-Cally
Hags-AA-Mitchell (or prospect)
Rupp-Boyle-Prust
Girardi-McD
Staal-MDZ
Erixon-Sauer
SO BOSS!
Well.
Yeah :) And if a guy like Thomas is ready, put him in Mitchell’s place and have Mitchell replace Rupp.
Also, as far as defense, I don’ think Erixon will be ready. At least not initially.
I rather see….
Staal-Girardi
McD-Sauer
MDZ-Eminger/Stralman
Let MDZ focus on being that offensive powerhouse he can be.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Why not put all 3 together :)
Lot’s of options.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I haven't double checked your numbers
But I absolutely love what you are preaching here. I have been trying to say the same thing with… well just about everyone. We have to think of the amount of guys we have coming off of Entry Level contracts and how well those kids have been playing. Guys like Stepan and McDonagh have earned New York money, even if we are hesitant to give it to them. But can we deny a guy like McDonagh a pay day when he has been the second most important D-man for us this year? I don’t think we can.
Would I love to have Zach Parise in a Rangers sweater? Yes. I would also love to have a pet lion that breathes fire and can fly me around so I can destroy small towns and conquer the Eastern Seaboard… but I wouldn’t trade my family and Ryan Callahan jersey to do it (wait, what am I trying to say?). Thinking long term is going to get this team to keep being this successful. Making a huge free agent move in the offseason or a big, ballsy trade this year is going to deplete our healthy stock of prospects and young players and give us much fewer options in case of a big injury, some unforeseen drama, or a player not scoring 120 points a year like some of us expected Brad Richards to do.
We can’t have all the toys guys.
@DigDeepNYR
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