Blueshirt Banter Discussion: Do You Mess With This Team's Chemistry At The NHL Trade Deadline?
by Joe Fortunato on Feb 8, 2012 9:00 AM EST
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PrintIn a 1-0 loss to the New Jersey Devils Tuesday night the New York Rangers proved something. As good of a team as they are right now, the lack of a potent power play could be this group's undoing in the playoffs.
Tuesday night the Rangers had a brilliant chance to tie the game when they were awarded a power play with under 10 minutes left in the game. The power play failed to convert, marking the 17th straight time the Rangers have failed to score with the man advantage. You can complain about the call that disallowed a Rangers' goal all you want, but the simple fact is that the Rangers should have never let the game come to that point in the first place.
There will be big names linked to the Rangers as we get closer and closer to the NHL trade deadline, and despite fans refusing to want even discuss touching this team's chemisty, I think it's a subject that has to be broached. This team needs power play help, and they need it soon. Some extra offense wouldn't hurt either.
So I ask all of you: Would you make a big move at the deadline this year if it's reasonable -- I'm not talking about never-gonna-happen steals (any deal involving Wade Redden would fall into this category) just deals that make sense for both sides -- if it's on the table? Or would you keep the chemistry and hope that the power play either starts to score as the season continues or hope that it doesn't come back to bite the team in the playoffs?
The floor is yours.
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Wait and See
The team has been playing great for much of the season but I think a lot depends on the next couple of games. The Rangers have to play a Tampa team who has won 6 of the last ten, Philly, Boston, Washington and then the Blackhawks. If the team drops points in that stretch I think a move should be made. But if I was Sather I would just listen to offers. Maybe pick up a rental player who is not going to cost the farm. I don’t think you should go out and make a splash. I think this team has a 4-5 year cup window so now is not the time to panic and pull the trigger. It is a tough balance. As much as we all want this team to win the cup this year we should not sacrifice the next 3-4 years
They might have team chemistry, but on-ice chemistry is virtually non-existent (unless Richards and Rupp had a moment on ice yesterday that I missed).
Bring in offense. Internal, external, whatever. I know we’re built to grind, but we’re grinding ourselves into stagnation.
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George your spot on. This team must make a deal. I’m ok with Ryan Smyth or Selanne as a rental as long as it doesnt cost too much. Further to that I would really like a Bobby Ryan or someone of that ilk. The team is atrocius on the power play and that is being kind. They need a top 6 type scoring forward type. I don’t want top go bonkers but I would have no problem packaging Dubinky and D-Men for someone like that. I like Dubi alot, he does alot but he is not a 4 million a year player so moving him kills two birds with one stone. I don’t think we need D man, just a scorer.
Agree George. Locker room is one thing but the game is played on the ice and they seem to be missing something. Sure they all buy into and play the same system but rarely is a system alone going to win.
Our sum might be greater than its parts but if you can get better parts then you hope the sum is greater as well.
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by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you
I’ve been saying this since the break…we have more than enough grinders and not enough goal scores
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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by Kevin Power on Feb 8, 2012 9:51 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Interesting how a 1-0 shut out gets guys to change their minds on how there is no chemistry. I personally don’t think that is the case, we just can’t score. FFS, we do not need another 3rd line layer on this team……Boyes and Smyth accomplish almost nothing…..thank god Prospal just re signed so he is not coming back. Sorry guys….Dubinsky is a goner.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Very seldom is one game enough to sway my thinking. I often don’t bother disputing intangibles in the comments because it’s a hopelessly subjective battle.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I agree... I think
When I first read the comments about moving Dubi, my initial reaction is no f’n way. But, when I think about it, moving a home grown talent may light a certain fire under the rest of the roster, " If Dubi can be shipped out, maybe I better get my ass in gear" sort of thing. And If we can somehow turn Dubi into Ruutu or selanne, I guess you do it. The chance to win a cup for our Rangers is a rare occurrence and if there’s something we can do to better our chances, you do it. Didn’t we move Gartner in ’94? I loved that guy too.
Whether we like it or not, Dubi will become a casualty of the cap. If he does not get moved at the dealine……which I think is highly likely, he will be moved to make room for Parise in the off season. I do not want Dubi to go for a rental though. Selanne would play about 25 games and then retire or go back to anahiem…..I’d hate to see that at the expense of Dubinsky. I’m not sold on Rutuu either. George I was not specificlly singling you out. I just know several guys were against making a big move but that appears to have changed. We as a team have averages two goals for in about the last 30 odd games. This is not a new issue.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Whether we like it or not, Dubi will become a casualty of the cap. If he does not get moved at the dealine……which I think is highly likely,
If they truly believed this is the Dubinsky they were getting, I don’t see how they would’ve given him the contract to begin with. I really doubt their going to cut bait with him after a 50 game sample, cap or not. Adding a top player at the deadline does not require that much cap maneuvering because of the prorated nature of the deals.
As it stands right now, at the deadline they can add a $6.9m player without moving a dime.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
He won’t be moved for a rental. Off-season, definite possibility either as part of a package for a scorer or for some picks or a prospect to clear his salary.
As it stands now, sure. He’s got 30 games + playoffs to go on a bender.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Correct. 25 points in 30 games or something ridiculous stretch like that.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Uhm...
I’ve been saying this since the all star break…this team does not need all the grinders it has on it, it needs a second goal scorer to have an all offensive line
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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earthworm.....
ever played real hockey? or do u just plug in ur sega genesis and play NHL 94? it happens dude, even temas like the bruins, get shut out. but like all quality teams, they bounce back. There will be shutouts. It is not like the Rangers are getting shutout ALL the time…oh yeah, we are doing the shutting out. u say ur realistic and usually correct…???
Grinding ourselves into stagnation sounds an awful lot like coitus.
@DigDeepNYR
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Blueshirt Banter
Remove roster redundancy
We dont need 10 grinding forwards and 5 stay-at-home defensemen. It’s great to have an outstanding defensive team, but at some point somebody needs to put the puck in the net.
redundancy
We dont need 10 grinding forwards and 5 stay-at-home defensemen. It’s great to have an outstanding defensive team, but at some point somebody needs to put the puck in the net.
We dont need 10 grinding forwards and 5 stay-at-home defensemen. It’s great to have an outstanding defensive team, but at some point somebody needs to put the puck in the net.
We dont need 10 grinding forwards and 5 stay-at-home defensemen. It’s great to have an outstanding defensive team, but at some point somebody needs to put the puck in the net.
by MasterOfPuppets on Feb 8, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I see what you did there
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 8, 2012 2:38 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Time to reset expectations
Great points here. And i’m not sure this can be corrected by playoff time – we need to tweak, not overhaul… and I’m not willing to mortgage our long term future with either a high-priced rental that costs us good prospects or take a chance by moving a significant yet potentially expendable player (i.e. Dubi) and possibly screwing up the team chemistry. We’re close, but definitely not there yet – and it may just take one more summer signing season to perfect this lineup with more offense and greater threats on the PP. I realize that’s really hard to accept while being atop the league, but unless we think Hank can carry us all alone – we need to start accepting this reality and adjusting our expectations accordingly. In some ways, doing next to nothing at all at the deadline may be the best move with this team from here on out. We’ll get there eventually, but patience is key.
Have another doughnut
I’m going back to what George said. This team may be the Walton’s off the ice, but on the ice they look like strangers sometimes.
If you have a deal that makes the team better, you do it. No need to mortgage the future, but many of the same fans who right now are saying “don’t make a move, stay the course, patience, etc” (I’m generalizing, not pointing fingers) are the same ones who are going to have a canary if this team is a first round flop.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Feb 8, 2012 9:46 AM EST reply actions
Depends upon what you really want
In 1994, they mortgaged the future to win ONE Cup. While chemistry is an issue, the other question is do you want to win more than one. If the goal is One, then everything is on the table. If you’re looking to have a shot for years to come, then you don’t give up on the “core” or the “prospects”. In 1994, the wanted one, thus some of the younger “prospects” who became pretty good NHLers were gone.
My view is that you talk the long view, as the organization has since the lockout. The core is young and could be competitive for years to come because most haven’t reached “their prime.” If someone comes along that fits the style and “age” of the group, then you would make the trade.
by It may HAVE to Last a Lifetime on Feb 8, 2012 9:47 AM EST reply actions
I see you're point
But i hardly think moving Dubi and a prospect can be considered “Mortgaging the future”. Our talent pool is deeper than it’s been in years, and to not use it to your advantage would be a waste. No way all of them make it. I think you leave Kreider and Thomas, maybe St. Croix, but doesn’t the thought of Selanne playing for another Cup get you going?
Not that I know Dubi and Borque/McIlraty/Erixon get Selanne or that he would agree to come, but It’s probably close, no?
I agree with above posts…. NYR dont want to and souldnt do too much… team is in 1st place but at the end of the day we need a little more scoring… one guy that can put the puck in the net along side gabby will not mess the team chemistry and like many above me said no many line combos are sticking together right now…. so I say dont do too much just get a guy that can score (and I say B.Ryan)
I found this article interesting
it discusses the controversy at the end of last nights game and it also points out Blue Jacket scouts were in attendance.
About a month ago on the Boomer and Carton radio show I heard them say the Rangers are pursing Rick Nash. I didn’t think it was credible and now over the past 7-10 days it seems like a possibility.
CBJ and DAL were both allegedly in the house last night. Two things on that:
1) It doesn’t mean Nash is in play
2) It doesn’t mean they were there only for the Rangers.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Read somewhere that the amorphous ‘sources’ are saying the Rangers have no interest in Carter.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Really? That’s dissapointing (if true), I feel like he’s severely undervalued and could be gotten at 60 cents on the dollar. I’d much rather have Carter at a 5+ mil than ’ 65 point Power Forward Super Star ZOMG!’ Rick Nas at close to 8 mil.
I’m in complete agreement, but I think the 26346 year contract hurts the cause there
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Or they were advanced scouts for the Feb 19th game?
by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Feb 8, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
The Rangers are in a unique position. They have enough assets in the minors to put together a package to land a top six player without effected the core of the team. Because of the youth in the current line up most of these assets will never see regular ice with the Rangers anyway. Other than Krieder, JT and maybe Thomas, I’m not sure any of them will play here. I’d move McIIrath in a second for the right player. I see our current defense with the addition of Erixon next season as a formidible force for the next 3 or 4 yrs at least. They also have Dubinsky and his 4 million dollar contract that they will surely have to move if they want to consider Parise in the off season……Wolski must go as well, although I don’t think that was ever in question. I think the Rangers are going to make a huge move. The fact is, if something significant does not happen to add consistent scoring, this season will be lost with an early playoff exit. We can score 5 on 5 and we can’t score on the power play…….Brad Boyes and Ryan Smyth are not going to impact that at all…….acquiring them is not the right move. I understand we don’t want to add cap because guys like AA and Step need to re re signed in two years………but I am confident if we added an elite wing or center with a big dollar contract we will find a way to sing our guys. Wolski/Dubi takes 8 million off the cap. Parise is getting at least that as a UFA.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
we can’t score 5 on 5
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
That’s….the only way we score. Where have you been?
It’s not enough, but it’s our only form of production. Goal-scoring has to come from somewhere.
It's not enough.....
…..hence the reason I said we can’t score 5 on 5……averaging 2 goals or less for the last 30+ games
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
If we stand pat I will not be disappointed with the team… i’d be more disappointed if we make a big move lose some guys then get knocked out of the playoffs and not only losing some core players, but losing the rental player as well… this is the disaster i hope to avoid…
@clalicata17
Why do you think they are going to trade away core guys for a rental, that is absurd.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
the rangers are generally held for ransom with trades… last year with richards the asking price was so astronomical…
@clalicata17
When has Sather made a bad trade? do you thinik he will allow the team to get gutted?
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BRUTAL CALL A SCORE FROM THE SIDE
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Blueshirt Banter
I honestly don’t think that if the Rangers put a healthy Crosby, Wayne Gretzky, Brett Hull, Al MacInnis and Brian Leetch on the Power Power play that it would actually score goals. The power play is not personel its how they run it, no motion, no quick passes and no shots that actually get to the goal.
Maybe I am just being overly pessimistic after all of the big names that the Rangers have acquired over the last 15 years, but I really don’t want to see a big name being brought in. We see players scoring goals for other teams, and in some cases lots of goals, but the tough part is predict who would still be able to score those goals with the Rangers.
I really doubt that any 1 player that we could bring in can really change the team regarding team scoring and the power play.
Agreed 100%. Wasn’t Richards brought here to fix the PP? Ok then. Next plan is to change what you’re doing on the ice. Re-think the strategy of the PP. And for god’s sake stop standing still and expecting to be open!
Manning lobs it, Burress alone, touchdown New York!
For the empty net, Mark Messier... do you believe it?! Do you believe it?! He said we will win game 6 - he has just picked up the hat trick!
at the end of the game… dubinsky, mitchell and hagelin hit the PP for a brief moment and you can see a night and day difference in movement… dubinsky for all his inability to score this season for some reason… will move and will drive the lane and cut through the middle…
what they need to do is Pass Pass Shoot, when you get stepan out there with richards and mdz… those are 3 players looking pass first… our biggest problem is too many players are looking to pass because that is the type of player they are, when was the last time you remember stepan attempting a shot on the PP? I don’t remember one single occasion, however he does consistently try the cross ice pass through the defensive box which almost always ends up in a lost possession…
@clalicata17
Agreed
Every other team passes to set up one-timers. We pass it, stand still, and take a weak wrister from the perimeter with no screen and barely any chance of a deflection. It’s like they’ve never even watched another team on the PP.
Dubinsky should be on the PP and be standing in front of the net all the time… Callahan on the other unit in front of the net all the time… we try to work for the slam dunk passes, either that or we score off the rush on the PP… we generally do not score on a set up on the pp when we score, which isn’t even rare… it’s below rare…
@clalicata17
Anisimov was on a PP line where he was in front and that line had a great shift. the PP is definitely improving little by little despite the lack of scoring.
by NYR-BD-RC-HL-MS on Feb 8, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Prospal just re signed a 2.5 million dollar deal with CBJ…..he is off the market. I hope Boyes re signs with Buffalo so everyone will stop talking about him coming here too.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
I’d never want prospal back… unless we could get the prospal of 10 years ago, then maybe… but I think boyes could be a good fit for the rangers and he’s almost certainly not going to resign with Buff prior to the end of the season…
@clalicata17
What does Boyes bring that we need? He has 3 goals and 10 assists in 41 games……I think Rupp has more points. Boyes is not a dynamic player in if he can’t score in Buffalo’s system, he is not going to do it here in our defense first system. We have too many 3rd line players on this team. We need a consistent scoring threat.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Buffalo is a terribly constructed team… Boyes brings a big body, one that he will use… his numbers this year i think can be attributed to the team… he’s a strong skater will drive the net and will work hard in the dirty areas and on the back check… you can’t always look to numbers for a player especially without looking at the bigger picture… when the team is bad, it’s almost impossible to get anything going…
@clalicata17
So what we would be getting is a big guy like Boyle who also does not produce points significantly? So who sits and is it because Boyes is actually better or because the gm will keep him in as long as possible to justify the move??
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
he’s a rental player… same could be said about anybody… if we get sellanne and he gets hurt BUST… we got McCabe last year BUST… we got derek morris BUST… not only were McCabe and morris busts… they hurt the team because they were not defensively sound… taking a chance on a younger player like boyes who has scored in the past who will require substantially less is not a bad move if he ends up being dubinsky 2.0…
the whole buffalo team has put a cloud on the guy who was producing when he came over 14 points in 21 games for buffalo last year… and 41 points in 62 games with St. Louis before the trade…
@clalicata17
Richards centering Rupp and Fedotenko at practice
I think you can throw chemistry out the window when you have your $10 million center playing with grinders who have combined for a dozen goals this year. Also, Callahan being centered by Mitchell.
STOP THE MADNESS
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Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Mitchell
Was a beast in the face-off circle last night 6 for 7 (and most of those were won cleanly). I think if we let him get a couple more mins he can start contributing a bit more on offensive side, he has a very quick release.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Nash for ...
Dubi, Wolski, Erixon & 2nd Rounder Pick. Possibly throw in MZA….
Seriously?
Are you a CBJ fan? That is pure robbery, to say the least. Carter’s contract alone is enough to make me scoff at this, but add the fact that he has been labeled a locker room cancer, and can’t stay healthy makes this an abysmal deal.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
No overreaction but...
Seeing constant proposals like this, are starting to get a bit agitating. You are basically moving 2 NHL quality sub-25 year olds and a 1st rounder to CBJ, for a player whose value has plummeted dramatically in the last couple months alone. It’s not plausible and never will be.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
If you want to trade for carter… wait until the days leading up to the activation of his NMC, that will drop the price substantially because the relationship between CBJ and Carter will get worse as time goes on… Carter could help the rangers… and might be motivated by playing against the flyers, but i think his constant injury problems, even though it’s not one chronic thing, seem to add up… although this year i think he’s milking injuries because he wants no part of CBJ
@clalicata17
and might be motivated by playing against the flyers
This is a big selling point to me. I think you could get 12 points out of him just from those 6 games a year. The injuries you hope is just a this year thing. He’s been relatively healthy throughout his career.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see his contract as that big of a concern for his player type guy can play both ways… has proven he can score in the Atlantic… has a heavy heavy shot… he would be a great fit and i’m sure CBJ are getting close to the point where they just want to be rid of him and his contract, which i was never sure they’d be able to maintain for the duration… that team was just pieced together in free agency… if some call him a cancer, coming into an established locker room makes a difference… especially in a tight knit circumstance like the rangers have…
@clalicata17
He’d also fall under the category of fitting into the “system” of playing defensively that everyone is so particular about when we are discussing forwards to trade for.
that “Fitting into the system” shouldn’t be a concern at all, if this team has the opportunity to get a big goal scorer they better do everything in their power, damn the “system”
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Oh I completely agree, I’m just trying to rationalize it to people who demand everyone on this team be a grinder who blocks shots.
I’m tired of that, I want this team to actually have an offense that other teams fear
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Again, completely agree. I wouldn’t be opposed to acquiring a forward with 30 goal skill that isn’t elite or even average defensively.
As nice as it would be to say, “Get a scorer, forget the system” Torts has shown that he won’t play guys that do what he wants them to do. If the player won’t excel in Torts style then either won’t play or won’t produce, eithe way its not a player that we should be trading resources for.
Torts will play guys who could put the puck in the net, plain and simple
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Gaborik is the perfect example. He’s not exactly Datsyuk defensively, but he does enough on the back-check to play consistently for Torts (not like Torts would have a choice either way lol).
A scorer doesn’t need to be a big 2-way grinder who plays Selke-level defense, just needs to at least make an effort on the back-check.
exactly
and whoever we get is probably gonna be paired with step/cally/whoever and they backcheck well enough to cover for the scorer
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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From what I had read before Gaborik signed with the Rangers was that Minnesota played a very defensive style (comparisons to NJ were made). The idea was that Gaborik could score 40 goals in their system so he should be good to do it in our system. It was also noted that Gaborik was a very responsible back checker while there. Which made him a very ideal signing, based upon his age and his desire to play responsible defense.
Torts will play guys that buy into what he wants. We have seen frequently that even if players screw up in the offensive zone that he will bench them.
this is scary
you’re really starting to sell me on Carter
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I’ve thought a lot about it….think of it this way. He’s proven he can score goals. He’s by FAR the most available 30+-goal guy on the market, in fact CBJ obviously wants him GONE. If he comes here, winning team, great leadership….and it’s fucking NY. His contract is 3m less than Nash and what Parise would probably get, meaning more depth.
I think much of the off-ice stuff was really beaten to death by the Philly press and fans in order to convince themselves it was ok to jettison a guy who rocked 46 goals for them. Same with Richards. It was all a power-play within the team’s management and Pronger.
You think he’s the only 27 year old rich guy who goes out drinking and fucking around? I have a bridge in Arizona to sell you.
I agree, and CBJ is in a bad position strength wise in dealing him… only a few teams can manage his contract, and he’s already shown he doesn’t want to play for a non-contender… on top of that… his NMC activates this summer he’s going to be dealt it’s a matter of where and when…
@clalicata17
Yup, it really puts us in a great position because teams that aren’t contenders/winners are going to avoid him because it’s obvious he doesn’t want to play for CBJ (I mean, it’s a little pampered, but he did sign a contract to play in Philly for those years and got shipped to hockey purgatory. I’d be pissed too.)
Considering what they gave up for him (Voracek who’s a faster AA and the #8 picks) and they don’t have a negotiating leg to stand on…could get it done on the cheap. I don’t see how Nash is a better fit, or Parise, both 3m more than Carter. Parise will most likely command a lifetime deal.
he signed until he’s almost 40 but by that time his salary is approx. 2-3 mil… which is kind of how richards contract is which makes them trade-able or staunch candidates for retirement which takes them off… his cap hit isn’t bad it’s the years… but if he continues to score 30 goals for the next 5-7 years i’m cool with that contracts
@clalicata17
George hes had several long term injuries. The foot made him miss the Olympics. I would pass on Carter. Even if his contract were decent which it isnt, his dressing room antics, off the ice stuff is a no-no IMO. Would much rather have Nash than him IF both are in play.
Yeah, he has the Olympics where he had foot surgery and this year with the same foot and now a shoulder. I don’t think he’s any bigger of an injury concern than either Gaborik or Richards were when brought in.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Carter is a 27 year old two way center with a cap hit just north of 5 million, if he were to regain his 35-40 goal range he would be an absolute steal at that salary.
Erixon isn’t going anywhere. He shit on Calgary to get himself traded here, and with what we gave up, it’s obvious he’s a big part of the future plans on this team. Plus…who’s going to want somebody who forced himself out.
NO NASH. That contract makes my ass itch.
Sir
You are still dramatically over paying. Are you not listening to the people telling you how desperate CBJ is to get rid of him? He is not nearly that expensive right now.
P.S.
Now is not the time to revert back to our early 2000 era strategy of selling the farm for big names.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Noooo
I want no part of Nash at his cap hit, I’d rather have Carter (slightly) even if their cap hits were the same anyway.
I don't want him
Torts will eat him alive, literally. No matter how hard you dream, Torts WILL NOT play a guy who isn’t willing to play his system.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
as far as i can tell, the system is working. yes the PP sucks at the moment, but the PK doesn’t, 5 on 5 doesn’t, the goaltending (starting and backup doesn’t). they are unbeatable so far when scoring the first goal and leading after 2 periods.
Shoot the puck Barry!!!
I am an avid believer in Torts system and it has been working. We’ve all seen from experience what happens to a player that works outside of that system. Jeff Carter is not a Torts type player.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yea Torts hates defensively responsible centers with speed who can hit the net consistently and play in every scenario.
if they can get him with scraps and not disrupt what they’ve spent years building then we should get him. chemistry is everything in team sports, and i would say the richards signing hasn’t worked that well, but we’ll see after the year is over. he was supposed to be the offensive answer. NOT (so far).
Shoot the puck Barry!!!
You are overpaying. Howson would be happy to get back what he gave up, which is a young decent NHL player, top 10 pick, and a 3rd.
Anisimov, Bourque and a 1st would be a decent return. Can toss them V-Tank since they could use the defensive help too.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Anisimov bourque and a pick at the end of the first round is equal to Voracek and the 6th overall.
Anisimov and Voracek isn’t that big a difference. Bourque and a 3rd are equivalent. So you’re missing the difference between 8th and about 25th overall. I dunno how to put a value on that. If you want to give up a better prospect that Bourque, than that’s fine.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Erixon’s worth more than our first, so no. Anisimov, McIlrath and Wolski? I’d want something more than Carter back, but nothing big.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
What return greater than Carter (as in a single player) would you expect for Anisimov, Mcilrath and Wolski?
I have to look, I know very little about the CBJ organization.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
You just gave me an Idea
I’ve been debating with myself whether or not I should bring Frankie back for the deadline and I wanted the opinion of you guys, so let me know if you guys want him back
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Good, sweet, merciful god no. No. No no no.
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I’d rather not after my last kerfuffle with him. He’s obviously narcissistic since no matter what he said everybody vehemently disagreed with him. I mean, is it for entertainment purposes?
It is purely for entertainment purposes
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Even then, not funny. Does he actually ask you guys or send emails trying to get reinstated? You can just /wink if you can’t tell me.
Uhm…he hasn’t emailed me specifically, in fact I think he hates us, but I still think it would be a trip see him go off the rails
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Tell you what.
if Jared Boll becomes a Ranger I’ll think about it.
@DigDeepNYR
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He’s currently wreaking havoc at Anaheim Calling. Go visit him there.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
They must have scooters there.
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He’s NOT getting what he paid. CBJ doesn’t have a leg to stand on in terms of negotiations. They want him gone, he wants out, and I doubt any of the lower-end teams are taking a shot on a guy who wants to play for a winner.
Give him an NHL-level roster player, a 1st-rounder, and another blech prospect or what-not gets it done.
Dubi/AA, MZA and a 2nd
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Correct.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
oh ok
I’m hesitant to give up our 1st though
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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/Shrug. There’s enough depth in the pipeline that I don’t think it’s going to matter. Our D core is young, and there’s still McIlrath and Erixon waiting. Forwards are a little sketchier, but you have to hope Kreider and Miller are mainstays in 2-3 years, not to mention some of the kids who can easily fill into the 3rd/4th line spots.
It’s either time, or getting really close to the time to make a run at winning it all. Ride Hank while he’s in his prime.
Very sound logic. I think along the same lines as Kevin, very hesitant to deal away first round picks… but when it lands you a Jeff Carter (who is on the right side of 30) you can’t really get so upset about it.
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good point
I’d probably try and get a pick from them since it would be in the top five of every round
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He might get fired immediately anyway.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
We’ve beaten this to fucking death already. Carter has a NTC that kicks in sometime next year. He wants out, they want him gone. He obviously wants to play for a winning team, so that narrows down the list of places that will inquire about him.
They’re in a very weak negotiating position.
I say kick the tires and see what the hell it would take to bring him here.
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Wow, I'm almost sold on Jeff Carter...
I agree, it should not take a kings ransom……..either of Dubi or AA, Wolski for cap relief and a first…..this years draft is not very deep…..first 7 or 8 picks then the talent level drops down significantly. I’d keep Erixon unless he goes for s stud like Weber…..not happening I know.
Absolute Worst Ranger Fan!!!!!!....yet incredibly realistic and usually correct.
Look, it’s not without risk, but what is? It adds a solid goal-scorer, for what amounts to a manageable cap-hit that allows the team to have a little more depth. It’s this team’s most glaring need. Are there other players I’d rather have? In a heartbeat. But in terms of affordability…it’s an upgrade for a playoff run this year, as well as for the future. Shouldn’t cost a great deal in a trade, and saves us from blowing a load on Parise (even IF, IF, he’s available and would sign here).
I just don’t see anything else being possible, unless we just stay put and pray Henrik goes god-mode until we win a cup.
I read that his NTC clause did NOT transfer in the trade.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I read something that states that teams might not have to honor it or something.
As cited by capgeek.com — the best source for player contract information — Carter’s original 11-year, $58-million contract with Philadelphia had a no trade clause from 2012 to 2015 (and a limited one thereafter). However, the no-trade clause was to have kicked in on his 27th birthday, which was Jan. 1. Because he was traded by the Flyers before his birthday, the no-trade clause doesn’t "travel," and he’s free to be traded by the Blue Jackets at any time if they so desire.
So, it’s limited after 3 years, which usually means he can list 8 or so teams he WON’T accept a trade to.
I personally have no clue how those specific clauses work in a contract. I would assume Slats would have a better understand, I would hope so.
As long as its not a full NTC I would be more comfortable getting him.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, even if the NTC came with him, it becomes limited after 3 years, at which point he can still be shipped out, it just limits our options as to where (assuming he falls that much out of favor or regresses significantly.
No clue, I’m not the one who suggested he’s on the market or that was the price, that’s just what I’ve gathered from the interweb.
I suppose as Lincoln once said “Don’t believe everything on the internet.”
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
And
No one wants Wolski at his cap hit. Period.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for opening my eyes.
He’s not in there as an asset, he’s in there because if Anisimov is the forward going the other way we need to clear additional salary.
So CBJ is just gonna say “sure we’ll take that dead weight just to make sure you guys have enough cap space.”
Sure…
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Wolski’s deal expires at the end of the season so they get a pro-rated 4 mil contract which comes off the books it’s a normal practice among hockey teams to make trades like this to essentially rid themselves of a monetary liability, like Roszival going to PHX for wolski, Wolski’s contract had one less year so in turn we rid ourselves of 5 mil for next season…
@clalicata17
I’m sure CBJ would love an expiring deal in return for taking a 10-yr deal off their hands.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
But, i shudder at the thought of another bloated contract after the last couple of years (Gomez, Drury, Redden) to name a few
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Carter (and Richards for that matter) are better than any of those 3 mentioned, both now and future world.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Based on the history of those 3, do you think there’s a chance Carter will be here at 33+ y.o if he’s unproductive?
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
No
And that’s what’s scary. How many embarrassing has this organization dealt with in the last couple decades. It’s just repeating the same mistakes, and I thought we were past that now.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
I’m intent on keeping McIlrath. I think he’s going to replace Girardi, who will most likely leave to sign a big contract with another team.
That would be a hard pill to swallow. He strikes me as a pure character guy. I would like both sides to show some loyalty to one another (we did sign him undrafted after all) and meet somewhere in the middle. If he took a smaller contract to stay in NY he will be my hero.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
girardi.
don’t see him leaving to sign a big contract, definitely not.
if you’ve seen interviews he has given, he’s definitely all about the rangers. he is staying put.
i would be shocked (and appalled) if he did so.
by VVIZARD on Feb 8, 2012 4:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Stats
personally i don’t think they should make any drastic moves. statistics show that although the rangers are 15th in goals scored (with games in hand to most everyone), they are 2nd in goal differential (.75). boston is an absurd 1.26!!! rangers are 27th in PP% (they are 18th in PP opps), and 5th in PK% (24th in times shorthanded), which means that although the PP is weak, the PK trumps it (they have 1 more PP goal than PP goals against). let’s face it, they are a defensive-minded team. getting rid of guys like boyle, dubinsky, mitchell, rupp, etc. would disrupt that style. at this point in the season would it make sense to do that? would it derail the train? although they do lose tight games when they can’t score, they are winning way more of those games, especially when they score first or take a lead into the 3rd, which shows that defensive hockey can be highly successful.
does anyone think that constantly changing the lines is hindering offensive chemistry?
oh, they are 27th in Shots on goal. they do need to shoot more, that’s obvious.
thoughts?
Shoot the puck Barry!!!
I like your reasoning. With Torts system, I don’t think you could have such a tight defensive system and a wide open offense. It is a trade off that is working for us, not against us.
PRUSTOSTERONE!!!
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by nathansfamous on Feb 9, 2012 3:30 AM EST up reply actions
We can’t just bring in a scoring forward. It has to be a scoring forward who will fit into the team’s current defensive style and system. If we trade for a player who can score 30 goals, but doesn’t know how to close in and shutdown on D like our current crop of forwards does, it will cause some issues. The Rangers have great defensemen, but also have forwards that cover incredibly well defensively. That’s through coaching and repetition. That can’t be compromised for the sake of a few more goals. So they have to be very careful and think this through before they make a decision.
Pierre McGuire needs to go away.
by MartyEqualsPansy on Feb 8, 2012 12:56 PM EST reply actions
Exactly
The team needs to make moves that fit our system not just going and getting a guy who scores… boston showed us this last year by grabbing 2 players… Rich Peverly and Chris Kelly… amazing pickups for almost nothing and they fit right in and made that team infinitely better…
@clalicata17
Nonsense, we have enough players to play “in the system” that we can afford to have one line that is fitted to put the puck in the net. It is not a big concern at all
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It took Kovy a year and a half to learn how to play defense in Jersey. You really want to deal with that type of learning curve with new players as we enter playoff season? I’ll pass.
Pierre McGuire needs to go away.
by MartyEqualsPansy on Feb 8, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t care as long as they are scoring, we have enough two way forwards to cover the back end while the goal scorers do what they do
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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So you “don’t care” if we get a player that’s a defensive liability? And you disagree with the idea of being “very careful and think this through” before impulsively bringing in a goal-scorer. Is that really the mindset of BSB editors nowadays? Or are you just arguing for the sake of keeping our boards busy?
Pierre McGuire needs to go away.
by MartyEqualsPansy on Feb 8, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
30 or more goals a year from one player far outweighs them being a liability, especially since most of our guys are already fairly reliable defensively. Chances are any player brought in is going to have Cally/Dubi/Step/AA/Haggles on their line, so if they take some chances to score, it’ll be worth it.
Plus, in today’s game, there are relatively few danglers who don’t contribute at all to the defensive game. Gone are the days of Bure just sitting at the red-line waiting for a pass to get a breakaway. Ovechkin is one of the few players in the league that really contributes very little defensively (obviously he has improved, but he still tends to linger).
Yeah, he answered for me
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A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
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Personally I think Richards needs to be put back with Gaborik… that experiment needs to be given another try before discarding it completely…
@clalicata17
Agreed
The early season “slump” after we returned from Europe sent everyone into panic mode. Lines shuffled and the rest is pretty much history. Unless Torts is seeing something we aren’t in practice (which he is most certainly) I think these 2 should be given another shot together. Gabby has been just ridiculous lately, and maybe Richards can get some confidence back setting him up.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously. I love feds but come on . What improvments is he going to show the coach when he’s playing with our poor aging feds and slow Rupp. Rupp n feds are good don’t get me wrong but Richards needs some guns to work with or he’s gonna look horrible.
Gotta give a hand to Mitchell . Him and Haggy together just work. I feel like Mitchell is trying really hard to stay and I applaud him for coming out every night. How’s Borque doing? Any word? We should bring up Grant I feel like he would be good on the rangers.
"It's far from done, but we did get something accomplished."-#19 B.Richards
by -19-AgainstAll on Feb 8, 2012 1:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Feds gets a pass in all counts in my opinion… that guy is the definition of a warrior… he does exactly what he’s asked to do… he’s not 25 anymore… he goes out he hits… he forechecks the plays defense he’ll block shots… he’ll play the power play… he does whatever you need… he’s the type of player that when you don’t notice him he’s doing his job… he does all the little things and is a positive point for rest of the team…
@clalicata17
Bourque is fast, decent on draws great penalty killer but hes completely redundant to what we already have. We need someone to score and that means trade. You can’t just grab a 30 goal scorer from Hartford. I want no part of MZA
I take it borque isn’t scoring enough down there ?
"It's far from done, but we did get something accomplished."-#19 B.Richards
by -19-AgainstAll on Feb 8, 2012 1:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why, exactly?
Because we’ve given him a total of roughly half in the NHL to get accustomed to the rink size. MZA is quick and has xray vision on the ice, he just has’t had the time to develop it on a smaller surface. You put him an Hagelin on a line and I have a feeling defenses would start sweating. Both are frustratingly shifty, and know how to apply pressure, MZA thew his small frame around A LOT.
MZA has gotten a raw deal in my opinion because of the win now attitude in this town. He will be playing in the NHL next year, just not for us, and we just might regret it.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
the problem with MZA, is his height… he’s far to small and even worse far too slow to play in the NHL… he can pass sure, but he doesn’t have the size or speed to work in the NHL not a knock on the guy, just a real world concept… guys like St. Louis or Gionta are fast as hell… MZA isn’t…
@clalicata17
Looks like we agree
On this point. He’s better than a PPG for the small club and wears an “A.” He hasn’t been given a fair shake in the NHL this year, and there’s no doubt that he’s a 50-60 point potential guy in the NHL. He’s a pure passer, not a goal scorer, but for some reason everyone is treating him like he’s the latter, including the organization.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
He strung a lot of points together early in his call up, and as the games got tougher the points were few and far between, if the logic of him becoming accustomed to the game are true, he went backwards as the more he played the less he contributed…
I don’t deny his talent, but his inability to maintain the puck due to his physical stature is completely damning when we play and uptempo physical game… there were times where i actually feared he was going to get hurt during games… because he was getting pounded shift after shift
@clalicata17
A lot of younger players have that regression as the season wears on. They aren’t accustomed to playing that much. It has been a well documented fact for most players who come straight from juniors, or in this case from Europe.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
well then the 44 point pace is also debatable… i’m not the coach of the team or teams including the whale but somebody there sees that he doesn’t belong up or he’d have been recommended at some point…
@clalicata17
I agree
He is a victim of his size, but I also debate the fact that he doesn’t belong. I’m saying he hasn’t been given a proper chance to prove he belongs, due I’m sure, to preconceived notions on his size.
I definitely see him playing in the NHL on a scoring line somewhere next season, unfortunately it’ won’t be in NY.
Please use St. Louis as a reference, if you look at his progression it took him the better part of 4 yrs and several AHL stints to develop into a PPG player in the NHL. Giving up on MZA after 2 yrs and roughly 40 NHL games is a travesty imho.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
St. Louis is one of the fastest players int he NHL today at almost 40 years old… MZA is about as fast a brian boyle… thats not going to get it done… MZA is not comparable to any of the other players of his stature…
@clalicata17
I am in severe disagreement that Zuccs and boyle are comparable in speed. Sorry, but a guy who is 5’5" is naturally much quicker and lighter on his feet than a 6’7" guy. That’s based purely on physics (ie center of gravity).
I assure you Zuccs is not that slow.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
he’s definetly not close to the speed of gionta cammalleri, st. louis, tyler kennedy… those guys all have blazing speed… another reason why hagelin sticks with a small frame… his speed allows him to maneuver without being dealt a death blow by an opposing defensemen…
@clalicata17
Hagelin is a much bigger body than MZA. I’m not sure if we’ve been watching the same player. MZA always appeared quick and light on his feet on the ice, I feel like the “slowness” you are referring to has more to do with his decision making than his actual physical speed. There is a huge difference.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
he’s definetly not a fast skater… the other guys i’ve mentioned st louis gionta… the big part of their game was the blazing speed… MZA does not have blazing speed…
@clalicata17
That’s a fair point, he very well might not be as fast as those players, but I think you are severely exagerrating by comparing his speed to a skater like Boyle’s. As I said before, I think you are confusing physical speed, with decision making speed, which I’ll give you is slower than it needs to be (due in large fact to smaller rink size).
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
yes over-exaggeration but at his size he can’t afford to be slow in any aspect of the game… or he will be consumed his inability to play defense due to his size also pushes him out of the line up… numerous people who have met him say you wouldn’t believe how small he is… and he’s listed at 5’8" when he’s really about 5’5-6"
@clalicata17
He still throws his weight around (even though that’s not saying much). He’s not afraid to work the boards, and he still is a pure passer.
All I’m saying is he’s be jobbed in this organization, mainly because of his size, not because he lacks talent. Another organization will sign him next year, and he will produce in the NHL, trust me.
His size is of course listed incorrectly, as is St. Louis’ and Gionta’s, they to are much closer to 5’6" than 5’9"
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Do we really need
another 3rd liner who is always looking to pass instead of shoot
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 8, 2012 4:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
He’s more of a potential chemistry addition than anything else. He played with Hagelin and Mitchell this year on the Whale, and all three produced well.
by I.LikeMittens on Feb 8, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t even know which one to reply to, so I’m starting this as it’s own sub-thread.
I’m not saying “ZOMG GET CARTER.” There’s are cheaper options for the short term.
But if you’re giving me the choice between Carter and Nash, it’s Carter, and it’s not close. He’s $2.6m cheaper, just as productive, and will cost much, much less via trade. Nash is the face of CBJ, Carter is just passing through there.
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lets say we get carter for AA, a prospect, and a 1st, will we have the cap space to resign all our important upcoming RFAs/UFAs when their contracts expire and they demand raises?
We’ll have the same space as we’d have for all the people advocating bringing in Bobby Ryan (can’t remember who advocates who, not pointing his name at you persay), who incidentally is a much worse fit for the ‘Torts system’ than Carter would be.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
i was under the impression that if we got ryan then dubi would go the other way for sure, almost cancelling out the cap hits
by nyrangerfan521 on Feb 8, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
I think the chances of Ryan moving anywhere are complete fabrications and it won’t happen unless somebody gives up the farm and some.
now that the ducks are playing well it looks like hes staying put. if they had continued to play horrible after the initial ryan rumors then they may be looking to blow it up
by nyrangerfan521 on Feb 8, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
That was the idea, but there’s nothing that convinced me it was definitely Dubinsky going. That was also at the height of frustration with him, so he was included in a deal for any NHL player that was remotely competent.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
a bunch of contract expire coinciding with RFA contracts expiring… plus guys who are here now are going to be come expandable, this is why it’s correct to build a strong franchise from top to bottom as players when they become over bloated with demands can be easily replaced… for all the cap stuff checkout capgeek.com it’s a great site for contract info…
@clalicata17
yeah i go to capgeek all the time but im not really sure how much each of our RFAs will demand and all that good stuff
by nyrangerfan521 on Feb 8, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Stepan isn’t getting much more than what he’s getting. MDZ? A bit of a raise, but nothing substantial. McD should get a good contract for what he’s done. I could see a long-term investment in him.
Just look at what Dubi and Cally got thier first time as UFA. Just under 2mil. Then look at Staal and Girardi and prize MDZ less then them.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Where does Hemsky go??
I see him going to the Red Wings, its just surprising I havent heard any rumors of him coming to us yet
Mr.1/3 of the season on ice, 2/3 on IR??
No thanks.
"Fart like a man! It's hockey!"
"A lack of faith shown can go a long, long way to failure."
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around for a while...you'll miss it." Ferris Bueller (1985)
by Danz10 on Feb 8, 2012 2:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Let's all take a breath
And realize that this team is 33-12, and we still have an elite goaltender between the pipes that gives us a chance every night.
With the drop off of scoring associated with the playoffs, I think we are still sitting pretty with the current lineup. We are still a good team fellas, even without Jeff Carter.
talking bout Carter coming to the Rangers is absurd, were still first overall and dont need a huge shakeup. And Columbus even though they suck arent just going to make trades just because.
We have done a great job of building threw our system and we are a legitimate threat this year. We should do what legitimate threats do. Trade for a rental to push us through
there’s more to the sucking in Columbus… they have a player on an extreme long-term deal, who doesn’t want to be there, who has shown he doesn’t want to be there, who has a full NMC kicking in this summer… it’s imperative that they move him while they can…
@clalicata17
Just seems more likely that if there gonna move him, Toronto would be willing to pay more then us..
Grabo and someone else??
Leafs are still looking for that #1 center
As Mr. Buffer would say.... ITTTTTTTTSSSSSSS TIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE
@MikeDay88
if the leafs want to over pay let them… If i was running the rangers I’d wait until the very last moment just like Sather did with Erixon… put them in a position where they have no choice…
@clalicata17
so what would you give for Carter?
As Mr. Buffer would say.... ITTTTTTTTSSSSSSS TIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE
@MikeDay88
1st Round Pick
—it’s a low pick so it’s essentially a 2nd round pick
Anisimov
—NHL ready player, 22 years old…
Wolski
—Salary exchange, which is prorated and expiring with it coming off the books at the end of the season
Valentanko
—Defensive Prospect something CBJ lacks currently and is a mid range prospect… If they don’t want Defense I’d include MZA instead…
@clalicata17
also there is a likelihood that other pieces would come back to the rangers, nothing substantial but pieces none-the-less
@clalicata17
I think Anisimov, Wolski and a first might be enough to get him.. but I still dont know if I like it..
I dislike the long contracts, look how Gomez, Drury and Redden all turned out
As Mr. Buffer would say.... ITTTTTTTTSSSSSSS TIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE
@MikeDay88
Gomez and Drury were paid for the years they had prior… also gomez really didn’t dissappoint until the latter part of his career with the rangers… Drury had a flash in the pan year for the rangers… Redden’s contract was not taken into total circumstances, he had been on a team with Chara as his defensive partner… so that will help a lot… Carter could easily slot with either one of the top scorers int he league with gaborik or one of the best passers int he league with richards… so it’s not like he’s coming in being relied upon to carry the team… with no surrounding parts…
another thing comparable to the gomez jagr situation… carter and nash were tops in shots last season indicating they like to have the puck on their stick a lot, when you put them on a line together something may not click and it obviously didn’t… same with gomez jagr, both liked to have the puck all the time and while gomez still put up the assists, there was a lot of trouble btw the two chemistry wise, which is why dubi work well as a rookie (also prucha) with jagr because they got him the puck and cleaned up his rebounds… and passes
@clalicata17
well to be honest, most players are paid by what they have done most recently..
but with that much time left on his contract just worried we would regret it in 7 years time.. so Gabby and Carter both like to shoot.. what would you propose that Carter-Stepan-Gabby would be our go to line?
As Mr. Buffer would say.... ITTTTTTTTSSSSSSS TIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE
@MikeDay88
carter took 365 shots last year and 319 the year before Gaborik 272 and 192 the year before… Nash had 305 shots last year… so putting 2 guys on the same line with almost 630 shots between them is not a good idea…
i would have Carter with Richards, not with gaborik… unless of course it was a pp… either that or Carter with dubinsky if he’s not traded because carter seemed to work well with mike richards who is a similar player to dubi and cally… and then give richards a try with gaborik again…
@clalicata17
Carter is also versatile in that he can play center or wing. I still think Stepan would probably make a better winger at this point, and with his pass-first mentality and ability, would probably make a great winger for a Carter-type. Then you put a good defensive guy with some size on the other wing, and you have a great line.
if your suggesting step on the left wing… by default i’d say cally on his RW… unless you use Carter on the wing and have him centered by dubinsky that opens a lot of possibilities
@clalicata17
Unless no one noticed, the Devils have quietly done something we haven’t just about all season…get bigger. And not only bigger, but better skilled. Panikorovsky, Bernier, and Foster. Three names we hadn’t seen in the previous games, added to size like Zubrus, Clarkson and Henrique, and Volchenkov and Salvador on the blue line. Not to mention Kovalchuk, Tallinder, and Carter. That is already ELEVEN players over 6 foot and 200 lbs. on that team. Up against the six defensemen rolled out by the Rangers, that’s a lot of beef to contain. And in the playoffs, they’ll get worn down. Size is needed in the top 6 to offset some of the teams who will throw their size at this team regularly for the rest of the season.
That in mind, the three more likely names you’ll hear until a deal gets done are Nash, Morrow, and Ryan. And no one should doubt that any of these three can be had, or will have to break the bank to get them.
The trade chips we know of are Dubi, Zucc, WW, AA, our first round pick and Erixon. But Feds, Eminger, and Bickel have come onto this list. Let me add one more…Boyle. What is true right now is that size..effective size…is needed now.
"Fart like a man! It's hockey!"
"A lack of faith shown can go a long, long way to failure."
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around for a while...you'll miss it." Ferris Bueller (1985)
by Danz10 on Feb 8, 2012 2:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Zucc and WW have relatively no valued outside the expiring nature of their contracts, and Zucc could have potential given the right situation… wolski is mostly just a salary dump for a team in the coming offseason and used to offset salary if the rangers try to acquire a player with a large contract and the other teams demanding guys of a lower salary from the rangers in return…
@clalicata17
Since when are the Rangers a small team
we do not need size we need a scorer that’s it
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 8, 2012 3:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I would argue that Philly is one of the bigger and more physical teams, and we out-toughed them. When Kreider makes the team, he will be tough.
I am starting to like this Get Carter idea.
maybe we can write a letter to Sather
tell him who to trade for Carter and everything
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 8, 2012 3:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Excuse me...When did I mention Philly?
I referenced this to New Jersey. The Devils, Leafs, Sens, and Bruins have the size I’m referring to. The Rangers aren’t that big (no credence to Thornton’s pervious jab), at least not in the top 6. The tallest and biggest player within the top six is Anisimov at 6’4", 200 lbs. Other than him, it’s Gabby at 6’1", 205, Captain at 5’10" and Rich at 6’, 195, then Step at 6’, 185 lbs., and Hags at 5’11", 176.
Yet, the bottom six is a different story, as the six are all over 6’ and only Feds is just around 200 lbs. Put Wolski back in for (say…) Mitchell, and you get an additional 6’3" and 210 lbs. But let’s be honest: Sather and Torts have severely alienated him, so putting him back in may not be an option.
Mitchell is an expendable player so he can be interchangeable for another player with size. So, it can be said that the rangers can shake up the lineup, without killing the whole roster.
My point?
Are they or should play the two bigger lines more? Maybe. Or, add a larger forward or two on the top 6 to balance things out? The Rangers may defend better than everyone in the league, but they need to add scoring and size….and now.
"Fart like a man! It's hockey!"
"A lack of faith shown can go a long, long way to failure."
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around for a while...you'll miss it." Ferris Bueller (1985)
we need scoring yes but we are still not going to get pushed around by other teams if we don’t get bigger
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 8, 2012 8:01 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It misses the point (which I did get), but Foster’s been terrible.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think
boyes could be a viable option come Feb. 27th. he’s a two-way center/wing that could fit our style of play. a few years ago he was a 35-40 goal scorer for St. Louis. He’s an UFA this summer and makes basically the same amount as WW.
Do you think WW for Boyes would be enough? Boyes is having an awful year on an awful team, but his body of work might increase his asking price.
fuck off joe… haha jk… boyes is the one player who is probably not going to cost an arm and a leg to get… which makes him a much more viable option and at worst he plays like dubinsky and doesn’t score but doesn’t make defensive blunders all game long and plays himself out of the line up… lower risk/ higher reward
@clalicata17
hahahaha. yeah i completely agree. btw the Carter idea is starting to grow on me. less of a cap hit than nash and will probably require less pieces in a trade. that contract isn’t as bad when you look at the actual salary over the last few years.
he’s a proven 30 goal scorer… and he’s 27… when he hits 33 his contract drops to 3 mil per (cap hit of 5+) which is easily tradeable and then it digresses further to 2 mil and by that time we are talking retirement…
@clalicata17
not int he carter situation… they are not in the upper hand situation in these negotiations for trades NTC looming in the summer disgruntled player… at this point i’m pretty sure he’s milking injuries… he does not want to be in Columbus… they can’t trade him fast enough…
@clalicata17
yeah, they're sellers but he's still a highly valuable piece
Carter is a hot commodity….it might not be the initial asking price that’s significant, it will be the bidding war. Like you said, Carter is a potential 40 goal scorer with a manageable cap hit.
@btown46
if other teams aren’t using the situation to their advantage then they failed negotiation 101… it’s all about your assets… and what CBJ need…
@clalicata17
yeah but it's not a two-person negotiation
it’s about the needs of multiple teams. A lot of teams need carter and will all be bidding for him. Columbus will obviously take the package from the team that offers the most.
It’s almost as if Carter’s act-outs are in Columbus’ favor….it’s attracts the attention of more bidders.
@btown46
you also have to factor in who would be able to take that contract… cross the flyers off… cross the bruins off… who’s going to take him? not the preds… not dallas, not phx, not san jose, not detroit, toronto and the rangers are the only two teams who could actually use him, be a happy fit (as far as playoff contention), AND sustain his 10 year contract… there are so many other things that play into this… i just don’t see it being a league spread courting process like there was for richards…
@clalicata17
I see what you’re saying, but I believe there’s more teams that can manage his contract than you think, and even more that would love to have him…Getting him at a reasonable price would be interesting but 10 years scares me nonetheless.
@btown46
I dont see it. Not with the new CBA looming. Not that many teams have that much wiggle room.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
everybody would love to have him… but there are about 6 teams that he would probably likely be able to have him… Rangers, Toronto, Nash, St. Louis, LA, Minn… you can cross off Nash because they have 2 impending monstrous free agents… Minn doesn’t seem intrigueing to me as a destination for Carter,
It comes down to St. Louis, LA, Rangers, Toronto…
@clalicata17
Burke is already bitching about the prices and calling the deadline quicksand. Does not sound like a guy that will overpay and take on such a contract.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
I find him pretty honest (for a GM) but he is pretty smart as well.
Also, he has gone on record that he is against those front loaded deals so he would take some flack by acquiring one.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
yeah not saying it's dishonest
but possibly a tactic…but yeah; I see where you’re coming from.
@btown46
Agreed. I’m sure Nash would require at least two prospects… Kreider, Thomas, Miller, St. Croix along with a couple of core players and draft picks. I doubt Carter would cost us that much.
I wouldn’t when Nash has a close to an 8 mil cap hit
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 8, 2012 4:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
if we have Nash and Gaby
I’d be pretty happy with our chances of winning a cup…we’d be strapped, but if we can make Nash’s contract fit I’d pull the trigger.
After 2 years, we would have a lot of money coming off the books: Gaby, Redden, Dru’s buyout, Wolski, Avery…prob more.
@btown46
i understand that but his salary drops over the last 3-4 years of the contract which makes him easier to trade. look at the richards deal pretty similiar in that regard.
NO BOYES!!!!
Dude is a stiff. He hasnt really scored at all in 3 seasons and hes a career minus player. Need to do WAY better than him. I would prefer short ter. Selanne, Ryan Smyth. If not then I want Nash or Carter although I like Carter less.
he was playing for a bad St. Louis team, not the team now… Selanne’s not getting traded and Smyth is beyond his days at this point… Boyes can be had for a much cheaper price…
@clalicata17
Im not buying hes untouchable. Hes an older expiring contract on team going nowhere that could get young players for him. Still don’t Like Boyes at all he hasnt scored since 2009 you cant blame it all on the team. Guys who are gola scorers score on good teams and bad teams. Again, Boyes really hasnt scored goals in 3 years. Theres a reason St. Luois trade him for nothing. He snot that good, over achived early and has become what he is now.
for the record i’d prefer the rangers make no moves… unless a small move works in… and boyes for wolski is a small move… one contract for another both expiring both underachieving…
@clalicata17
The Rangers are incapable of making the Stanley Cup finals as presently constitued. They do NOT score enough, especilaly on PP when it counts when a team like Boston will run them physically without fear of giving up goals on PP. They have to do something for a scoreer. Barring Lundqvist going beyond berserk and only allowing a goal a game in the playoffs. Unrealistic.
there’s also no proof that one player is going to completely turn the team into an offensive juggernaut… the rangers are a strong team built on strong team defense to break up the team this year in search of offense would be a step backwards… I have faith in this team and we have a great record this year, but if we start dolling out players for other ones, what was the point of the system we’ve built…
@clalicata17
Boyes has 13 points in 40 games and is -5. -20 for his carrer hasnt broken 20 goals since 2009. Pass.
boyes has played on some atrocious Blues teams… boyes had 55 points last year… which was up from the year prior… and i don’t buy him regressing because he put up 55 points after 41 points the year prior… this year is actually an anomaly because he’s never been this bad before… same could be said about dubinsky who just can’t score with a hooker and blank check this year… overall the lower risk is brad boyes… considering smyth’s age and selanne is been marked untouchable by ANH
@clalicata17
boyes isnt the answer
Im not buying Selanne is untouchable. Hes an older expiring contract on team going nowhere that could get young players for him. Still don’t Like Boyes at all he hasnt scored since 2009 you cant blame it all on the team. Guys who are gola scorers score on good teams and bad teams. Again, Boyes really hasnt scored goals in 3 years. Theres a reason St. Luois trade him for nothing. He snot that good, over achived early and has become what he is now.
Buy it or not the guy has a NMC and if he doesnt want to go, he wont. Not matter what you believe.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
He said he wants to remain and retire there. The GM has said he is untouchable since he has a NMC and wont ask him to wave it.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
1) St. Louis had 2-3 lottery picks over the past 6 years.
2) Buffalo is about 25th in scoring.
3) Did you seem him play last week against us? That game alone showed me enough
He was. It was almost like he was auditioning because I cant imagine he has been playing like that all year with the negative things being said about him.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry but I dont consider a guy who has zero shots, zero goals, zero assists in the game a force. Again look at his body of work since 2008-2009. 70 shots this season 3 goals. I guess we will agree to disagree.
How many hits and blocked shots did he have?
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Great. The Rangers have 4 lines NOW of guys that hit and block shots. What e DONT have is guys that score goals. They need goals, not grit numbers.
I was joking.
But seriously, the guy is shooting a 4.3%. He career average is more than twice that. There is something wrong in Buffalo.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
He REALLY hasnt scored in 3 YEARS. its fact. I get you like him. he doesnt make us any better. Better off having Dubinsky snap out of his funk than adding Boyes.
I’m not in love with the guy but realize this isnt NHL12. Players have to be available 1st. Then they have to need what you are offering. Then the price has to work.
You would be buying low and can get out quick at the end of the season.
I agree that he has been on a steady decline but you need to figure out why. His shot totals have also decreased. I dont know enough about St. Louis to try to explain why he went from 220 shots to 150.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
I dont disagree. Glenn needs to fuind that guy, thats his job. I would prefer a rental witha track record of success or scoring big goals and Boyes is neither. Is it possible he “breaks” out, sure but how many of thes types of guys have we grabbed that hevent? Ive seen this movie before.
He might not be the best, I agree. But we likely have no clue who else could be had and at what price.
If it is just swapping non-used parts it might be worth the risk. Just spit-balling but if Buff would take a combination of WW, MZA, Vtank or Bickle then what do we have to lose?
If a Smyth costs a roster player or a high pick I would rather take the chance on Boyes.
Aucune clause de Mouvement
by Blueshirt in Paris on Feb 8, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Agree. i wouldnt give up a significant player or high pick for Smyth as he will just go back to ED anyway. Only way I trade a Dubi, Bourque pick is for a Bobby Ryan type guy or Nash/Carter. I would take Boyes if it literally costs NOTHING. IMO Wolskis expiring deal is worth morew than Boyes if it gets us someone else. I would gladly give them MZA or Bickel for Boyes but nothing more.
there were 2 shutouts… nobody had any points… and he was absolutely robbed by lundqvist in the SO
@clalicata17
were talking about a rental. not a long-term answer. with a change of scenery from bottom dweller to contender could easily change that.
I get that but I want a rental thats fits what we need. Hes not it. How many times have you seen this movie with the Rangers? They need someone who is a difference maker. Hes not it. You can’t pin your cup hopes this year on catching lightning in a bottle with Boyes.
there aren’t many players that fit our needs… 1. a big body on the PP who isn’t afraid to plant in front of the net… 2. A guy who can score 3. A guy who has two way ability….
@clalicata17
id take my chances with him. look at what boston did last year of the deadline. did they make a big splash? no. they signed two average guys who fit the system well.
Oh and Smyth is a big body, scores PP goals and garbage goals. So since a new scene would do wonders for Boyes parrently then why wont it work for Smyth who has been light years better in his career?
in his career yes… he’s almost 40 years old… and loves EDM and doesn’t want to leave… he’s got 11 points in 3 months after starting fast… theres no difference btw boyes and him at this point…
@clalicata17
except boyes is younger and probably has a lot more left in the tank than a near 40 year old on the last legs of his career…
@clalicata17
his regression throughout the season tends to prove otherwise… his total numbers are completely irrelevant… he has 36 points now… and had 26 points in the first 2 months of the season… and 11 points since November… the guy is almost 40 and is slowing down as the season progresses… but its all besides the point because he’s not being traded
@clalicata17
So what about Hejduk?
Is he worth the rental. down year but HAS a scoring pedigree. I havent seen much of him at all this year to be honest.
Speaking of the Lightning I read somewhere there was speculation we showed interest in Kubina? Idk how i feel about that.
I like Moore as a player, but he fits the mold of about 8 guys we already have on the roster. He’s not what’s missing from this team.
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by George E. Ays on Feb 8, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Two rental deals and one mega trade
We get Ryan Smyth from the Oilers and Whitney from the Coyotes for no less than Wolski late draft picks and maybe Stu Bickel. And than Sather pulls the trigger on the Bobby Ryan deal that will see Dubinsky, Anisimov, Eminger, Erixon, MZA, Valentenko go to the Ducks for Ryan, Visnovsky and a choice of Hagman or Blake
by Guess Who's Back? on Feb 8, 2012 6:28 PM EST reply actions
unfortunately the 2 best players in the mega trade is on the Ducks’ side so there’s no incentive to do it.
It could happen
We’d be giving the Ducks a ton of potential
by Guess Who's Back? on Feb 8, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
the one thing you do have going for you in that trade is depth which is supposedly something the Ducks are looking for. Dubi, AA, and Erixon are definite keepers obviously. Valtank’s ship has appeared to have sailed. With all the injuries we had here on D and for him to still not get a chance speaks volumes. I do like Emmy and I would like to see MZA get a real chance somewhere.
Make minor moves nothing drastic like trade your future away and risk destroying the organization, the rangers have come a long way w the home grown talent, I don’t like hearing things like trade anisimov, because I gurantee the kid gets traded and has a great career else where
by ImMike88 on Feb 8, 2012 6:38 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
make a move?
A difficult situation on many fronts. From a business standpoint the cap is a concern and must be considered in any transactions trying to keep close salary structure in sending and receiving players. Secondly the team has been consistent all year with an unequaled work ethic that is a testament to the coaching, players an overall commitment to a defensive minded hard hitting shot blocking in your face grinding style. In addition the play of Henrik Lundqvist has been a major contributor to overall success and the Rangers having 5 players in top 50 plus/minus leaders. On the negative side offensively the Rangers have 1 player in top 50 for points, 2 players in top 50 for goals and none in top 50 for assists and of course the lack of a consistent power play.As good as the team has fared to this point of the season the consistent difficulties of putting the puck in the oppositions net is usually a major problem in the playoffs. In addition with teams aware that they can take liberties on players like Marian Gaborik (who does have a tendency to back off offensively against physical teams) due to ineffective power play and hoping that their goalkeeping remains as solid after the grind of a long season. All that being said management will need to decide how much they are willing to give up (if at all) and what effect on long range planning or stand pat and hope work ethic, defense and goalkeeping will take them as far as possible in an already successful and improved season. Either way tough decisions with I am sure many views within the Rangers hierarchy.
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